I cannot believe that was even brought up.

Yes a scout can mimic a logi and be speedy with a cloak but its as ridiculous as me stating that my cloaked proto min or Amarr assaults can out scout a scout. I use those specifically to kill the vast majority of 'scouts'.

I'm sorry but the ridiculous capabilities of scouts has gone on long enough and I have yet to see a scout come out and admit how fking stupidly good they are.

I have a proto scout as well and have been scouting since beta. This char is a tongue in cheek alt.

I've no reason to doubt that you're a distinguished veteran.
But I believe we've now wandered off topic.

I'm going to go now. Have a nice day.

Shotty, I can tell you that since 1.8, I often used scout suits for logi-type work. The gallente scout has pretty insane fitting power, is invisible, relatively speaking, and substantially faster than my Amarr logi with no major loss of eHP AND 3hp/sec inherent reps. At STD it also has the same number of equipment slots. Given the wonky nature of the Amarr logi bonus, I honestly end up sacrificing relatively little by using the suit.

Only my stubborn clinging-on to the RP and suit class prevent me from using it more than I already do.

That said, I may be an anomaly. I doubt it, but it's possible. If we could get stats on the use of more traditional logi equipment on scout suits I'd be quite interested in that information myself. Rep tools by themselves might not be a perfect metric as the minmatar logi bonus is very powerful, but if you could get a look at all equipment in total, that might be more appropriate.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will be happy to admit it. However, I would still stand by the general statement that medium suits remain outclassed by lights in more respects than not. The statement about scouts being the real enemy is mostly tongue in cheek, though it's true that pitting medium frames against eachother (see: any time someone said "oh no slayer logi" less than 6 months ago) is misguided because that's simply not the major imbalance in the current meta.

Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place.

No can do. Cloak would need to be built in ... which would require a client-side update.

Otherwise, we'd have to choose between cloak and our function in squad. Cloak is intended to help us perform our function (not replace our function).

Well, since you can perform your scout roles with or without a cloak you can choose which you'd rather be better at, your squad role or cloaking. That level of stealth has proven itself worthy of being it's own effectively separate discipline and much of the game overall would be better served by that separation versus the additional multiplier to all other light frame activities it is now.

Meh. I think you're wrong for a number of reasons. Firstly, your logic could be applied to further any number of bad ideas. Take this one, for example:

Bad Logic (Round 2)
1000HP Logis have proven themselves to be good killers.
1000HP Logis have also proven themselves to be good at carrying equipment.
So Logis must choose between carrying weapons or carrying equipment.

^ Once you've worked your way around this one, I'll give you the next reason why you're wrong.

Roger that. o7

I hadn't even considered the STD Scout vs STD Logi scenario; this is an excellent point and absolutely valid concern. I suspect that Cross is working other angles which will improve high-end Logis, but we should still try to rectify the problem you've identified here for low-end Logis. How would following pan out?

+1 Equipment for STD AM
+1 Equipment for STD CA
+1 High Slot for STD GA
+1 Low Slot for STD MN
+ PG / CPU for STD (All)

If the above were implemented, there'd still be a significant jump in utility from STD to ADV (by my count, at least). Is there any reason why not to buff the STD Logi in this fashion, in addition to whatever buffs follow for the class as a whole?

Well, one of the obstacles would be the Amarr sidearm issue, I'd rather not lose it and this might give more traction to the movement to do so. Personally I think it would be ok since the Amarr logi also technically gives up a low for the sidearm as well, which is a heavy price to pay. Otherwise I can live with your proposal, though I think the PG/CPU buff should be somewhat modest and coupled with the bonus to equipment fitting costs being doubled. There are also base stat deficiencies that could use some work but that's a larger discussion.

The STD Scout is better than a STD Logi at doing Logi things. <--- This is unacceptable and indefensible.

Thank you. My work here is done.

I know Cross is looking at this thread, but certainly your input on this sort of thing as the de facto voice of the scout community would be beneficial if and when Rattati finally gets around to this.

Well, since you can perform your scout roles with or without a cloak you can choose which you'd rather be better at, your squad role or cloaking. That level of stealth has proven itself worthy of being it's own effectively separate discipline and much of the game overall would be better served by that separation versus the additional multiplier to all other light frame activities it is now.

(This post in progress)
Another possibility:

I've been liking the idea of giving racially themed partial bonuses instead of just the flat 1/3 of the "other" races bonuses from the OP.

Let's use repair tools as an example: the Caldari would get a bonus to rep tool range, but not rate, whereas the Amarr would get a bonus to rate but not range. Maybe gallente gets a little bit of both, idk, but obviously none would be able to match up to a minmatar logi rep tool.

Same with uplinks: Again, it's up for debate but let's call it Minmatar get a bonus to number of spawns and Caldari to spawn time. Maybe we just keep the theme of gallente being generalists like their original bonus and they get a little of both.

This has been proposed before by others and myself included and has been shot down every time.

It's seen as "too complicated" and people say it would require too much work for CCP to do so while I would love to have partial bonuses racial themed it's probably only realistic to have what you first proposed. Maybe in Legion we will have immersive lore in the gameplay....but until then, we just have DUST 514.

This has been proposed before by others and myself included and has been shot down every time.

It's seen as "too complicated" and people say it would require too much work for CCP to do so while I would love to have partial bonuses racial themed it's probably only realistic to have what you first proposed. Maybe in Legion we will have immersive lore in the gameplay....but until then, we just have DUST 514.