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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3718	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:29:00 - [1] - Quote There are so many threads floating around with so many replies I felt like I wanted to put this proposal on itGÇÖs own so I could get feedback (and discussion!) on it. Problem: Medium frames suck because Scouts can do their job just as well in addition to being scouts. Solution: Moar bonuses. IGÇÖll stick to logistics bonuses because thatGÇÖs what I know best. (For assaults the Amarr bonus is obviously the gold standard so that should be the model for the other races.) Currently the logistics equipment bonuses are as follows: All: 5% fitting reduction to equipment Racial bonuses: - Caldari: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level. No need to do anything with the fitting bonus for now. For equipment, I propose the following: Primary racial bonuses: No change. Secondary racial bonuses (new GÇô all per level): - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to rep tool range, 1.5% to repair amount - 3% to uplink spawn time, andGÇª 0.4 max spawn count? (that oneGÇÖs tricky!) Naturally this would not stack with the primary bonus, so the min logi would not be getting itGÇÖs 10% plus another 3%. It would just get the 10%, and look like this: Primary bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level Secondary bonuses: - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to uplink spawn time, and 0.4 max spawn count This now gives logiGÇÖs a definite advantage over scouts when it comes to support roles, but does not really infringe on the other logi suits because the bonus is so much smaller. Rep tool on a Min logi will still be amazing, and much better than it would be on a Gal logi. But, it will be better on a Gal logi than it will on a Gal scout. Thoughts? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3736	Posted - 2014.07.12 04:13:00 - [2] - Quote bump (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3602	Posted - 2014.07.12 04:48:00 - [3] - Quote Suure Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2305	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:17:00 - [4] - Quote Many would argue that this makes Logi's too similar to one another and do little to change the current imbalance in competitive play, where the Minmatar Logistics is largely considered to be the only one worth using. Adding additional and identical secondary bonuses to all the suits will likely not encourage the use of the other suits. How would you personally go about making the other suits more appealing without nerfing the effectiveness of the Minmatar Logistics? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3848	Posted - 2014.07.12 11:25:00 - [5] - Quote I really like this. So they still excel but have slight secondary bonuses to the other equipment as well. The equipment that they don't particularly specialise in but its still a small bonus nonetheless. The secondary bonus does not stack with their current matching one though. Be vigilant!, for there are those that remove the teabag before adding milk!.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3741	Posted - 2014.07.12 12:07:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Many would argue that this makes Logi's too similar to one another and do little to change the current imbalance in competitive play, where the Minmatar Logistics is largely considered to be the only one worth using. Adding additional and identical secondary bonuses to all the suits will likely not encourage the use of the other suits. How would you personally go about making the other suits more appealing without nerfing the effectiveness of the Minmatar Logistics? To a large extent, I'm not trying to equalize the logi suits with this. If people are going to think of logis as nothing more than a mobile rep tool, there's not a ton I can do about that without nerfing the minmatar, as you are asking. IMO, right now is not the time to balance the logis, or even the medium frames, against each other right now. I think this whole "make assaults better by making logis worse" or "don't make logis better so we don't hurt the assault" is the totally wrong approach ATM. The medium frames should not be antagonizing each other right now. What we need to do (and what I'm trying to do here) is to separate medium frames, as a group, from the real enemy, scouts! With this change, my goal is to separate the logis from scouts, not each other. That's going to need some further balancing, but job 1 IMO, is to simply make medium frames viable, period, on a battlefield currently ruled by lights and heavies. I honestly think it's because scouts are so good at doing everything else besides repping that people have moved to scout suits, not the minmatar logi. That's what we need to bring them back from! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 425	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:26:00 - [7] - Quote Just for clarity, my Amarr Logi would have a total 15% bonus to those things? I think that's kinda cool, but offhand I don't recall whether or not the Minmatar bonus (especially) is 10% per level; this might infringe a bit too much. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3745	Posted - 2014.07.12 19:25:00 - [8] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Just for clarity, my Amarr Logi would have a total 15% bonus to those things? I think that's kinda cool, but offhand I don't recall whether or not the Minmatar bonus (especially) is 10% per level; this might infringe a bit too much. It's 10% to rep tool range and 5% to the rep tool rate. So, it would look like this if you were talking about only rep tools, and both suits being proto: Minmatar logi (Level 5): +50% to repair tool range, +25% to repair tool rate Amarr logi (Level 5): +15% to repair tool range, +7.5% to repair tool rate (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3755	Posted - 2014.07.13 04:34:00 - [9] - Quote Found this little tidbit of weak late night drunken maths in this old thread from 1.7. John Demonsbane wrote: Just for the sake of argument with easy maths, let's say you get 2 people to make fittings with a suit with 300 CPU. Player 1: I am a proper logi, and have used 200 for modules/weapons and 100 for equipment. Player 2: Umad bro? I only roll killer bee style, get rid of that nerd equipment and gimme all 300 for modules and weapons. Now, you apply the new equipment bonus but drop the available CPU to 275 and try to make the same fits: Player 1: No problem my good man, my equipment now only costs me 75 CPU so I still have 200 for modules/weapon. See you on the field of battle! Player 2: wtf? With 25 less CPU I can only run 2 complex damage mods! I want a respec b/c you nerfed my suit after listening to all the crybabies on the forums! U suck CCP! I put this here as an example of a way to allay the fears of slayer logis (which is honestly a little misguided in this era) coming back. By applying a 25% bonus to equipment fitting and a decrease in fitting power equivalent to 25% of the cost of a typical equipment loadout (not 25% of the whole suit, naturally) you can discourage the fitting of logi suits as an offensive-oriented suit. You can never eliminate it, but the real goal for every suit, to preserve the (alleged) 'sandbox' play, is to make it so that you can fit it any way you want, but it won't be quite as good at another role as the one designed for it is. (Obviously we already have the bonus I spoke of in the original thread, so you would simply have to take it a little further, like giving a 50% bonus to equipment at proto and decreasing the example suit CPU from 300 to 250 instead.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3784	Posted - 2014.07.15 12:12:00 - [10] - Quote This is what a bump looks like. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 994	Posted - 2014.08.16 22:16:00 - [11] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: There are so many threads floating around with so many replies I felt like I wanted to put this proposal on itGÇÖs own so I could get feedback (and discussion!) on it. Problem: Medium frames suck because Scouts can do their job just as well in addition to being scouts. Solution: Moar bonuses. IGÇÖll stick to logistics bonuses because thatGÇÖs what I know best. (For assaults the Amarr bonus is obviously the gold standard so that should be the model for the other races.) Currently the logistics equipment bonuses are as follows: All: 5% fitting reduction to equipment Racial bonuses: - Caldari: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level. No need to do anything with the fitting bonus for now. For equipment, I propose the following: Primary racial bonuses: No change. Secondary racial bonuses (new GÇô all per level): - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to rep tool range, 1.5% to repair amount - 3% to uplink spawn time, andGÇª 0.4 max spawn count? (that oneGÇÖs tricky!) Naturally this would not stack with the primary bonus, so the min logi would not be getting itGÇÖs 10% plus another 3%. It would just get the 10%, and look like this: Primary bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level Secondary bonuses: - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to uplink spawn time, and 0.4 max spawn count This now gives logiGÇÖs a definite advantage over scouts when it comes to support roles, but does not really infringe on the other logi suits because the bonus is so much smaller. Rep tool on a Min logi will still be amazing, and much better than it would be on a Gal logi. But, it will be better on a Gal logi than it will on a Gal scout. Thoughts? +1/2 I would make the secondaries 1/2 the effectiveness of the main. 5% rep range 2.5% amount,for example. Logis should have 0 rivals in support but other logis. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3856	Posted - 2014.08.16 22:19:00 - [12] - Quote Meee One wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: There are so many threads floating around with so many replies I felt like I wanted to put this proposal on itGÇÖs own so I could get feedback (and discussion!) on it. Problem: Medium frames suck because Scouts can do their job just as well in addition to being scouts. Solution: Moar bonuses. IGÇÖll stick to logistics bonuses because thatGÇÖs what I know best. (For assaults the Amarr bonus is obviously the gold standard so that should be the model for the other races.) Currently the logistics equipment bonuses are as follows: All: 5% fitting reduction to equipment Racial bonuses: - Caldari: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max spawn count per level. No need to do anything with the fitting bonus for now. For equipment, I propose the following: Primary racial bonuses: No change. Secondary racial bonuses (new GÇô all per level): - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to rep tool range, 1.5% to repair amount - 3% to uplink spawn time, andGÇª 0.4 max spawn count? (that oneGÇÖs tricky!) Naturally this would not stack with the primary bonus, so the min logi would not be getting itGÇÖs 10% plus another 3%. It would just get the 10%, and look like this: Primary bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level Secondary bonuses: - 3% to nanites and 1.5% to supply rate - 3% to scanner duration. 1.5% to precision - 3% to uplink spawn time, and 0.4 max spawn count This now gives logiGÇÖs a definite advantage over scouts when it comes to support roles, but does not really infringe on the other logi suits because the bonus is so much smaller. Rep tool on a Min logi will still be amazing, and much better than it would be on a Gal logi. But, it will be better on a Gal logi than it will on a Gal scout. Thoughts? +1/2 I would make the secondaries 1/2 the effectiveness of the main. 5% rep range 2.5% amount,for example. Logis should have 0 rivals in support but other logis. I definitely agree with that concept, but I proposed 1/3 in order to allay concerns that the logi suits will lose their individuality if we equalize the bonuses too much. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 995	Posted - 2014.08.16 22:37:00 - [13] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I definitely agree with that concept, but I proposed 1/3 in order to allay concerns that the logi suits will lose their individuality if we equalize the bonuses too much. Lose their individuality? More like be masters of equipment. ANY logistics should use any equipment so effectively it puts all would be support non-logistics to shame. Plus they still are each better with their racial equipment,they just pick up more utility and competence with the others. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 5496	Posted - 2014.09.06 21:45:00 - [14] - Quote Oh yeah, this thread lol. ;) My hometown beat Manchester united. Git gud man utd. 4-0
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 307	Posted - 2014.09.06 21:54:00 - [15] - Quote Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4080	Posted - 2014.09.24 04:45:00 - [16] - Quote Trick #1: Looketh over there! So endeth the trick (The godfather of tactical logistics)
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2854	Posted - 2014.09.24 10:16:00 - [17] - Quote Well, i like the bonus idea, it doesn't hurt anyone, but the class should be reworked. There are some non sense in the logi class, first of all slot layout, then stats. Slot layout Slot layout should be the same of assault at STD and ADV. Stats Logi have slightly better EW than assaults, more equipments, less base HP, basically they are between scouts and assault, but biotics stats are pointing towards the heavy class. The solutions are 2: 1) Increase logi biotic stats (stamina, speed, stamina regen) to be slightly better than assaults but worse than scouts. 2) Give logi the same stats of assaults to be in line with the frame type. I prefer option 1. Shield stats I'm not a great fan of shield tanking and i've never looked deeply into it, but i've noticed that regen is worse than assault suits, delays are different, some are better, some are worse, i think there should be a normalization. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Zindorak 1.U.P 941	Posted - 2014.09.24 11:46:00 - [18] - Quote I say for amarr +1 to deployable links Pokemon master! I suck at Tekken lol
Atiim 12470	Posted - 2014.09.24 12:17:00 - [19] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Many would argue that this makes Logi's too similar to one another and do little to change the current imbalance in competitive play, where the Minmatar Logistics is largely considered to be the only one worth using. In competitive play the Amarr Logistics is also sought for, but the Cal/Gal Logistics are worthless. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1573	Posted - 2014.09.24 13:43:00 - [20] - Quote I said this in a thread a week or so ago. Racial Bonus- as it is. Secondary Bonus- Allies Primary half of bonus Third Bonus- Allies enemy (or Enemies Ally) secondary bonus Fourth Bonus- enemy half of secondary bonus Ex. Minmatar Logi 10% to Repair Tool Range, 5% to Repair amount 5% to Active Scanning Visibility Duration 5% to Supply/Repair Amount +1 to Max Spawn Count Ex. Gallente 10% to Active Scanning Visibility, 5% to Active Scanned Precision 5% to Repair Tool Range +2 to Spawn Count 2.5% Supply/Repair Amount Ex. Caldari 10% Nanohive Maximum Nanites, 5% Supply/Repair Amount 5% Reduction to Spawn Time 5% Repair Amount 2.5% Active Scanned Precision Ex. Amarr 10% Reduction to Drop Uplink Spawn Time, +2 Maximum Spawn Count 5% Nanohive Maximum Nanites 5% to Active Scanner Precision 2.5% Repair Amount Debate on what is really the primary bonus and what is the secondary, these were made rather quick going in written order, though I would debate that Minmatar Repair Rate is the Primary bonus while Range is a happy addition. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5175	Posted - 2014.09.24 13:57:00 - [21] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: What we need to do (and what I'm trying to do here) is to separate medium frames, as a group, from the real enemy, scouts! Scouts infringing upon the Logi's support role? I've yet to witness this in game, nor has the topic come up with any seriousness in the Barbershop or other scoutly channels. I try to stay informed on what Scouts are up to, and I've heard nothing of the Scout becoming a legitimate -- much less superior -- alternative to Logistics. If this is in fact an issue, I'd like to better understand it. This is the very best "Scout Logi" I could come up with: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1192/7950 ^ Is it a solid example of Scout which can out-Logi a Logi? If not, can you provide me with one that is? If so, would you please explain how and why? Edit: I am a Scout, but I'd like to assure you that I'm not trolling you guys or attempting to detract from your goals. Should my sincerity be questioned, I'm confident that Cross Atu will vouch for me. Scouts displacing Logistics in the role of support would absolutely represent a problem; if that problem exists, I'd like to help you solve it. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5175	Posted - 2014.09.24 14:12:00 - [22] - Quote @ Cross Atu I'm wondering if its possible for us to know usage rates for Rep Tools on Scout Frames ... If so, is it trending upward or downward, and is its occurrence commonplace or anomaly? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 342	Posted - 2014.09.24 14:38:00 - [23] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: What we need to do (and what I'm trying to do here) is to separate medium frames, as a group, from the real enemy, scouts! Scouts infringing upon the Logi's support role? I've yet to witness this in game, nor has the topic come up with any seriousness in the Barbershop or other scoutly channels. I try to stay informed on what Scouts are up to, and I've heard nothing of the Scout becoming a legitimate -- much less superior -- alternative to Logistics. If this is in fact an issue, I'd like to better understand it. This is the very best "Scout Logi" I could come up with: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1192/7950 ^ Is it a solid example of Scout which can out-Logi a Logi? If not, can you provide me with one that is? If so, would you please explain how and why? Edit: I am a Scout, but I'd like to assure you that I'm not trolling you guys or attempting to detract from your goals. Should my sincerity be questioned, I'm confident that Cross Atu will vouch for me. Scouts displacing Logistics in the role of support would absolutely represent a problem; if that problem exists, I'd like to help you solve it. Scouts generally run nothing but scouts. It can be seen in the barber shop that you guys should not be taken seriously for anything to do with balance as its always balance vs scouts, not balance in general. Now go back back to the neckbeard shop. Thank you. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 342	Posted - 2014.09.24 14:44:00 - [24] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Cross Atu I'm wondering if its possible for us to know usage rates for Rep Tools on Scout Frames ... If so, is it trending upward or downward, and is its occurrence commonplace or anomaly? Shouldn't you be asking in the neckbeard shop?. Iv personally not seen any scouts running scout logi. Unless you actually run logi (which I doubt because it doesn't have all that easy mode crap that you guys deny every time its mentioned) then your input is not wanted. Go back to the kiddy shop and go stroke each others epeen about how leet you all are. I look forward to the QQ when you guys get balanced. Just like the tasty ds QQ. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5175	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:00:00 - [25] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: What we need to do (and what I'm trying to do here) is to separate medium frames, as a group, from the real enemy, scouts! Scouts infringing upon the Logi's support role? I've yet to witness this in game, nor has the topic come up with any seriousness in the Barbershop or other scoutly channels. I try to stay informed on what Scouts are up to, and I've heard nothing of the Scout becoming a legitimate -- much less superior -- alternative to Logistics. If this is in fact an issue, I'd like to better understand it. This is the very best "Scout Logi" I could come up with: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1192/7950 ^ Is it a solid example of Scout which can out-Logi a Logi? If not, can you provide me with one that is? If so, would you please explain how and why? Edit: I am a Scout, but I'd like to assure you that I'm not trolling you guys or attempting to detract from your goals. Should my sincerity be questioned, I'm confident that Cross Atu will vouch for me. Scouts displacing Logistics in the role of support would absolutely represent a problem; if that problem exists, I'd like to help you solve it. Scouts generally run nothing but scouts. It can be seen in the barber shop that you guys should not be taken seriously for anything to do with balance as its always balance vs scouts, not balance in general. Now go back back to the neckbeard shop. Thank you. Speaking of, we just wrapped up a detailed conversation with Cross about Logi EWAR loadouts. EWAR is more-or-less purely math, and where math is concerned there's little room for bias or neckbeardery. Even the simpleminded can see when one number is larger than the next; here, have a look. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 342	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:04:00 - [26] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: What we need to do (and what I'm trying to do here) is to separate medium frames, as a group, from the real enemy, scouts! Scouts infringing upon the Logi's support role? I've yet to witness this in game, nor has the topic come up with any seriousness in the Barbershop or other scoutly channels. I try to stay informed on what Scouts are up to, and I've heard nothing of the Scout becoming a legitimate -- much less superior -- alternative to Logistics. If this is in fact an issue, I'd like to better understand it. This is the very best "Scout Logi" I could come up with: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1192/7950 ^ Is it a solid example of Scout which can out-Logi a Logi? If not, can you provide me with one that is? If so, would you please explain how and why? Edit: I am a Scout, but I'd like to assure you that I'm not trolling you guys or attempting to detract from your goals. Should my sincerity be questioned, I'm confident that Cross Atu will vouch for me. Scouts displacing Logistics in the role of support would absolutely represent a problem; if that problem exists, I'd like to help you solve it. Scouts generally run nothing but scouts. It can be seen in the barber shop that you guys should not be taken seriously for anything to do with balance as its always balance vs scouts, not balance in general. Now go back back to the neckbeard shop. Thank you. Speaking of, we just wrapped up a detailed conversation with Cross about Logi EWAR loadouts. EWAR is more-or-less purely math, and where math is concerned there's little room for bias or neckbeardery. Even the simpleminded can see when one number is larger than the next; here, have a look. Prime example of ignoring the real issues. Thanks for proving my point. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 342	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:07:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: What we need to do (and what I'm trying to do here) is to separate medium frames, as a group, from the real enemy, scouts! Scouts infringing upon the Logi's support role? I've yet to witness this in game, nor has the topic come up with any seriousness in the Barbershop or other scoutly channels. I try to stay informed on what Scouts are up to, and I've heard nothing of the Scout becoming a legitimate -- much less superior -- alternative to Logistics. If this is in fact an issue, I'd like to better understand it. This is the very best "Scout Logi" I could come up with: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1192/7950 ^ Is it a solid example of Scout which can out-Logi a Logi? If not, can you provide me with one that is? If so, would you please explain how and why? Edit: I am a Scout, but I'd like to assure you that I'm not trolling you guys or attempting to detract from your goals. Should my sincerity be questioned, I'm confident that Cross Atu will vouch for me. Scouts displacing Logistics in the role of support would absolutely represent a problem; if that problem exists, I'd like to help you solve it. Scouts generally run nothing but scouts. It can be seen in the barber shop that you guys should not be taken seriously for anything to do with balance as its always balance vs scouts, not balance in general. Now go back back to the neckbeard shop. Thank you. Speaking of, we just wrapped up a detailed conversation with Cross about Logi EWAR loadouts. EWAR is more-or-less purely math, and where math is concerned there's little room for bias or neckbeardery. Even the simpleminded can see when one number is larger than the next; here, have a look. RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Iv personally not seen any scouts running scout logi. Precisely my point. John expressed concern that Scouts are out-logi'ing the Logi. I haven't seen it, but that doesn't mean that he's wrong. Shouldn't we investigate his claim? Its impossible for a scout to out logi a logi but it can mimic it no better than a commando. You said yourself that maths don't lie so why is this question even being asked or possibly debated over?. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 342	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:08:00 - [28] - Quote Now get back to the actual point of this thread. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5176	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:18:00 - [29] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Its impossible for a scout to out logi a logi ... Thank you for that tidbit. This was my concern. Please correct me if and where I'm wrong: It is appropriate and necessary to buff the Logi, but not the grounds that they're being out-logi'd by Scouts. They should be buffed on other grounds, not identified in the original post of this thread. Please ignore the multiple references to Scouts in the OP; we all know that "its impossible for scout to out-logi a logi". Yes? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 342	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:24:00 - [30] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Its impossible for a scout to out logi a logi ... Thank you for that tidbit. This was my concern. Correct me if I'm wrong: It is appropriate and necessary to buff the Logi, but not the grounds that they're being out-logi'd by Scouts. They should be buffed on other grounds, not identified in the original post of this thread. I cannot believe that was even brought up. Yes a scout can mimic a logi and be speedy with a cloak but its as ridiculous as me stating that my cloaked proto min or Amarr assaults can out scout a scout. I use those specifically to kill the vast majority of 'scouts'. I'm sorry but the ridiculous capabilities of scouts has gone on long enough and I have yet to see a scout come out and admit how fking stupidly good they are. I have a proto scout as well and have been scouting since beta. This char is a tongue in cheek alt. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5176	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:25:00 - [31] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Its impossible for a scout to out logi a logi ... Thank you for that tidbit. This was my concern. Correct me if I'm wrong: It is appropriate and necessary to buff the Logi, but not the grounds that they're being out-logi'd by Scouts. They should be buffed on other grounds, not identified in the original post of this thread. I cannot believe that was even brought up. Yes a scout can mimic a logi and be speedy with a cloak but its as ridiculous as me stating that my cloaked proto min or Amarr assaults can out scout a scout. I use those specifically to kill the vast majority of 'scouts'. I'm sorry but the ridiculous capabilities of scouts has gone on long enough and I have yet to see a scout come out and admit how fking stupidly good they are. I have a proto scout as well and have been scouting since beta. This char is a tongue in cheek alt. I've no reason to doubt that you're a distinguished veteran. But I believe we've now wandered off topic. I'm going to go now. Have a nice day. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 343	Posted - 2014.09.24 15:32:00 - [32] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Its impossible for a scout to out logi a logi ... Thank you for that tidbit. This was my concern. Correct me if I'm wrong: It is appropriate and necessary to buff the Logi, but not the grounds that they're being out-logi'd by Scouts. They should be buffed on other grounds, not identified in the original post of this thread. I cannot believe that was even brought up. Yes a scout can mimic a logi and be speedy with a cloak but its as ridiculous as me stating that my cloaked proto min or Amarr assaults can out scout a scout. I use those specifically to kill the vast majority of 'scouts'. I'm sorry but the ridiculous capabilities of scouts has gone on long enough and I have yet to see a scout come out and admit how fking stupidly good they are. I have a proto scout as well and have been scouting since beta. This char is a tongue in cheek alt. I've no reason to doubt that you're a distinguished veteran. But I believe we've now wandered off topic. I'm going to go now. Have a nice day. Indeed. You too. 'Scouts are balanced' checks wallhacks, sprints the fastest in the game and shotguns out of cloak Mad skills bro...
Skullmiser Vulcansu 150	Posted - 2014.09.24 16:19:00 - [33] - Quote While using my Amarr Logistics suit, I find that I have great mortality, and low speed, even without armor plates, and every suit is very expensive. The worst problem is that often I'll be killed before I get to use all of my very expensive equipment. I do not think that more equipment bonuses will help with that. I would like Logistics suits to have improved scan precision. Before 1.8 it was on par with scouts'. This would increase survivability if scouts are mostly what is the cause of death, which was the case a couple of games ago. Logistics suits will not be better than scouts at scouting, because they are still so slow, it would just help them not be taken unawares. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4094	Posted - 2014.09.25 02:32:00 - [34] - Quote Shotty, I can tell you that since 1.8, I often used scout suits for logi-type work. The gallente scout has pretty insane fitting power, is invisible, relatively speaking, and substantially faster than my Amarr logi with no major loss of eHP AND 3hp/sec inherent reps. At STD it also has the same number of equipment slots. Given the wonky nature of the Amarr logi bonus, I honestly end up sacrificing relatively little by using the suit. Only my stubborn clinging-on to the RP and suit class prevent me from using it more than I already do. That said, I may be an anomaly. I doubt it, but it's possible. If we could get stats on the use of more traditional logi equipment on scout suits I'd be quite interested in that information myself. Rep tools by themselves might not be a perfect metric as the minmatar logi bonus is very powerful, but if you could get a look at all equipment in total, that might be more appropriate. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will be happy to admit it. However, I would still stand by the general statement that medium suits remain outclassed by lights in more respects than not. The statement about scouts being the real enemy is mostly tongue in cheek, though it's true that pitting medium frames against eachother (see: any time someone said "oh no slayer logi" less than 6 months ago) is misguided because that's simply not the major imbalance in the current meta. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5206	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:17:00 - [35] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Shotty, I can tell you that since 1.8, I often used scout suits for logi-type work. The gallente scout has pretty insane fitting power, is invisible, relatively speaking, and substantially faster than my Amarr logi with no major loss of eHP AND 3hp/sec inherent reps. At STD it also has the same number of equipment slots. Given the wonky nature of the Amarr logi bonus, I honestly end up sacrificing relatively little by using the suit. Only my stubborn clinging-on to the RP and suit class prevent me from using it more than I already do. That said, I may be an anomaly. I doubt it, but it's possible. If we could get stats on the use of more traditional logi equipment on scout suits I'd be quite interested in that information myself. Rep tools by themselves might not be a perfect metric as the minmatar logi bonus is very powerful, but if you could get a look at all equipment in total, that might be more appropriate. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will be happy to admit it. However, I would still stand by the general statement that medium suits remain outclassed by lights in more respects than not. The statement about scouts being the real enemy is mostly tongue in cheek, though it's true that pitting medium frames against eachother (see: any time someone said "oh no slayer logi" less than 6 months ago) is misguided because that's simply not the major imbalance in the current meta. Roger that. o7 I hadn't even considered the STD Scout vs STD Logi scenario; this is an excellent point and absolutely valid concern. I suspect that Cross is working other angles which will improve high-end Logis, but we should still try to rectify the problem you've identified here for low-end Logis. How would following pan out? +1 Equipment for STD AM +1 Equipment for STD CA +1 High Slot for STD GA +1 Low Slot for STD MN + PG / CPU for STD (All) If the above were implemented, there'd still be a significant jump in utility from STD to ADV (by my count, at least). Is there any reason why not to buff the STD Logi in this fashion, in addition to whatever buffs follow for the class as a whole? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 341	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:15:00 - [36] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5216	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:33:00 - [37] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place. No can do. Cloak would need to be built in. Otherwise, we'd have to choose between cloak and our function in squad. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 341	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:58:00 - [38] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place. No can do. Cloak would need to be built in ... which would require a client-side update. Otherwise, we'd have to choose between cloak and our function in squad. Cloak is intended to help us perform our function (not replace our function). Well, since you can perform your scout roles with or without a cloak you can choose which you'd rather be better at, your squad role or cloaking. That level of stealth has proven itself worthy of being it's own effectively separate discipline and much of the game overall would be better served by that separation versus the additional multiplier to all other light frame activities it is now. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5216	Posted - 2014.09.25 22:58:00 - [39] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place. No can do. Cloak would need to be built in ... which would require a client-side update. Otherwise, we'd have to choose between cloak and our function in squad. Cloak is intended to help us perform our function (not replace our function). Well, since you can perform your scout roles with or without a cloak you can choose which you'd rather be better at, your squad role or cloaking. That level of stealth has proven itself worthy of being it's own effectively separate discipline and much of the game overall would be better served by that separation versus the additional multiplier to all other light frame activities it is now. Meh. I think you're wrong for a number of reasons. Firstly, your logic could be applied to further any number of bad ideas. Take this one, for example: Bad Logic (Round 2) 1000HP Logis have proven themselves to be good killers. 1000HP Logis have also proven themselves to be good at carrying equipment. So Logis must choose between carrying weapons or carrying equipment. ^ Once you've worked your way around this one, I'll give you the next reason why you're wrong. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 341	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:09:00 - [40] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place. No can do. Cloak would need to be built in ... which would require a client-side update. Otherwise, we'd have to choose between cloak and our function in squad. Cloak is intended to help us perform our function (not replace our function). Well, since you can perform your scout roles with or without a cloak you can choose which you'd rather be better at, your squad role or cloaking. That level of stealth has proven itself worthy of being it's own effectively separate discipline and much of the game overall would be better served by that separation versus the additional multiplier to all other light frame activities it is now. Meh. I think you're wrong for a number of reasons. Firstly, your logic could be applied to further any number of bad ideas. Take this one, for example: Bad Logic (Round 2) 1000HP Logis have proven themselves to be good killers. 1000HP Logis have also proven themselves to be good at carrying equipment. So Logis must choose between carrying weapons or carrying equipment. ^ Once you've worked your way around this one, I'll give you the next reason why you're wrong. Conversation currently underway in Feedback forum thread title "CPM input request: Logistics and Support". I'd like the next red herring grilled, not fried, please. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4103	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:14:00 - [41] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Shotty, I can tell you that since 1.8, I often used scout suits for logi-type work. The gallente scout has pretty insane fitting power, is invisible, relatively speaking, and substantially faster than my Amarr logi with no major loss of eHP AND 3hp/sec inherent reps. At STD it also has the same number of equipment slots. Given the wonky nature of the Amarr logi bonus, I honestly end up sacrificing relatively little by using the suit. Only my stubborn clinging-on to the RP and suit class prevent me from using it more than I already do. That said, I may be an anomaly. I doubt it, but it's possible. If we could get stats on the use of more traditional logi equipment on scout suits I'd be quite interested in that information myself. Rep tools by themselves might not be a perfect metric as the minmatar logi bonus is very powerful, but if you could get a look at all equipment in total, that might be more appropriate. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will be happy to admit it. However, I would still stand by the general statement that medium suits remain outclassed by lights in more respects than not. The statement about scouts being the real enemy is mostly tongue in cheek, though it's true that pitting medium frames against eachother (see: any time someone said "oh no slayer logi" less than 6 months ago) is misguided because that's simply not the major imbalance in the current meta. Roger that. o7 I hadn't even considered the STD Scout vs STD Logi scenario; this is an excellent point and absolutely valid concern. I suspect that Cross is working other angles which will improve high-end Logis, but we should still try to rectify the problem you've identified here for low-end Logis. How would following pan out? +1 Equipment for STD AM +1 Equipment for STD CA +1 High Slot for STD GA +1 Low Slot for STD MN + PG / CPU for STD (All) If the above were implemented, there'd still be a significant jump in utility from STD to ADV (by my count, at least). Is there any reason why not to buff the STD Logi in this fashion, in addition to whatever buffs follow for the class as a whole? Well, one of the obstacles would be the Amarr sidearm issue, I'd rather not lose it and this might give more traction to the movement to do so. Personally I think it would be ok since the Amarr logi also technically gives up a low for the sidearm as well, which is a heavy price to pay. Otherwise I can live with your proposal, though I think the PG/CPU buff should be somewhat modest and coupled with the bonus to equipment fitting costs being doubled. There are also base stat deficiencies that could use some work but that's a larger discussion. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5221	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:13:00 - [42] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Shotty, I can tell you that since 1.8, I often used scout suits for logi-type work. The gallente scout has pretty insane fitting power, is invisible, relatively speaking, and substantially faster than my Amarr logi with no major loss of eHP AND 3hp/sec inherent reps. At STD it also has the same number of equipment slots. Given the wonky nature of the Amarr logi bonus, I honestly end up sacrificing relatively little by using the suit. Only my stubborn clinging-on to the RP and suit class prevent me from using it more than I already do. That said, I may be an anomaly. I doubt it, but it's possible. If we could get stats on the use of more traditional logi equipment on scout suits I'd be quite interested in that information myself. Rep tools by themselves might not be a perfect metric as the minmatar logi bonus is very powerful, but if you could get a look at all equipment in total, that might be more appropriate. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will be happy to admit it. However, I would still stand by the general statement that medium suits remain outclassed by lights in more respects than not. The statement about scouts being the real enemy is mostly tongue in cheek, though it's true that pitting medium frames against eachother (see: any time someone said "oh no slayer logi" less than 6 months ago) is misguided because that's simply not the major imbalance in the current meta. Roger that. o7 I hadn't even considered the STD Scout vs STD Logi scenario; this is an excellent point and absolutely valid concern. I suspect that Cross is working other angles which will improve high-end Logis, but we should still try to rectify the problem you've identified here for low-end Logis. How would following pan out? +1 Equipment for STD AM +1 Equipment for STD CA +1 High Slot for STD GA +1 Low Slot for STD MN + PG / CPU for STD (All) If the above were implemented, there'd still be a significant jump in utility from STD to ADV (by my count, at least). Is there any reason why not to buff the STD Logi in this fashion, in addition to whatever buffs follow for the class as a whole? Well, one of the obstacles would be the Amarr sidearm issue, I'd rather not lose it and this might give more traction to the movement to do so. Personally I think it would be ok since the Amarr logi also technically gives up a low for the sidearm as well, which is a heavy price to pay. Otherwise I can live with your proposal, though I think the PG/CPU buff should be somewhat modest and coupled with the bonus to equipment fitting costs being doubled. There are also base stat deficiencies that could use some work but that's a larger discussion. There's a big utility gap right now between ADV and STD Logi which means there's plenty of room for a buff at STD without tradeoff. I believe that this could be successfully pitched on the grounds you've provided: The STD Scout is better than a STD Logi at doing Logi things. <--- This is unacceptable and indefensible. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4104	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:38:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The STD Scout is better than a STD Logi at doing Logi things. <--- This is unacceptable and indefensible. Thank you. My work here is done. I know Cross is looking at this thread, but certainly your input on this sort of thing as the de facto voice of the scout community would be beneficial if and when Rattati finally gets around to this. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 5222	Posted - 2014.09.26 01:46:00 - [44] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: The STD Scout is better than a STD Logi at doing Logi things. <--- This is unacceptable and indefensible. Thank you. My work here is done. I know Cross is looking at this thread, but certainly your input on this sort of thing as the de facto voice of the scout community would be beneficial if and when Rattati finally gets around to this. When that time comes, you have my support on this. Looking forward to seeing what else you guys have in mind for the higher level Logi. Let me know if there's anything we can do to help ... apart from "giving up" an EQ slot. o7 Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 345	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:32:00 - [45] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Scouts lose the second equipment slot and w/e cpu/pg allotted to go with it. 95%of the problem solved, theorycrafted bonuses now come from a much more relevant place. No can do. Cloak would need to be built in ... which would require a client-side update. Otherwise, we'd have to choose between cloak and our function in squad. Cloak is intended to help us perform our function (not replace our function). Well, since you can perform your scout roles with or without a cloak you can choose which you'd rather be better at, your squad role or cloaking. That level of stealth has proven itself worthy of being it's own effectively separate discipline and much of the game overall would be better served by that separation versus the additional multiplier to all other light frame activities it is now. Meh. I think you're wrong for a number of reasons. Firstly, your logic could be applied to further any number of bad ideas. Take this one, for example: Bad Logic (Round 2) 1000HP Logis have proven themselves to be good killers. 1000HP Logis have also proven themselves to be good at carrying equipment. So Logis must choose between carrying weapons or carrying equipment. ^ Once you've worked your way around this one, I'll give you the next reason why you're wrong. [/quote] Conversation currently underway in Feedback forum thread title "CPM input request: Logistics and Support". EDIT: Conversation underway for the second time. The first time being during openbeta/first few weeks of Uprising when it was determined that " slayerlogis" were an epidemic whose only cure was the progressive nerfing of logi base stats(eHP, speed and regen) as well as the loss of sidearms from all logis, except the Amarr who only kept theirs at the loss of both an equipment slot and a low mod slot. I'd like the next red herring grilled, not fried, please.[/quote] Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7637	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:36:00 - [46] - Quote I can dig it. Rattati, I choose you! Something's wrong when you regret Things that haven't happened yet
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7637	Posted - 2014.09.26 05:00:00 - [47] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: (This post in progress) Another possibility: I've been liking the idea of giving racially themed partial bonuses instead of just the flat 1/3 of the "other" races bonuses from the OP. Let's use repair tools as an example: the Caldari would get a bonus to rep tool range, but not rate, whereas the Amarr would get a bonus to rate but not range. Maybe gallente gets a little bit of both, idk, but obviously none would be able to match up to a minmatar logi rep tool. Same with uplinks: Again, it's up for debate but let's call it Minmatar get a bonus to number of spawns and Caldari to spawn time. Maybe we just keep the theme of gallente being generalists like their original bonus and they get a little of both. This has been proposed before by others and myself included and has been shot down every time. It's seen as "too complicated" and people say it would require too much work for CCP to do so while I would love to have partial bonuses racial themed it's probably only realistic to have what you first proposed. Maybe in Legion we will have immersive lore in the gameplay....but until then, we just have DUST 514. Something's wrong when you regret Things that haven't happened yet
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4108	Posted - 2014.09.26 05:56:00 - [48] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: (This post in progress) Another possibility: I've been liking the idea of giving racially themed partial bonuses instead of just the flat 1/3 of the "other" races bonuses from the OP. Let's use repair tools as an example: the Caldari would get a bonus to rep tool range, but not rate, whereas the Amarr would get a bonus to rate but not range. Maybe gallente gets a little bit of both, idk, but obviously none would be able to match up to a minmatar logi rep tool. Same with uplinks: Again, it's up for debate but let's call it Minmatar get a bonus to number of spawns and Caldari to spawn time. Maybe we just keep the theme of gallente being generalists like their original bonus and they get a little of both. This has been proposed before by others and myself included and has been shot down every time. It's seen as "too complicated" and people say it would require too much work for CCP to do so while I would love to have partial bonuses racial themed it's probably only realistic to have what you first proposed. Maybe in Legion we will have immersive lore in the gameplay....but until then, we just have DUST 514. Indeed. Forever doomed to play the game we have, not the one we want, eh? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4119	Posted - 2014.10.03 21:06:00 - [49] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: (This post in progress) Another possibility: I've been liking the idea of giving racially themed partial bonuses instead of just the flat 1/3 of the "other" races bonuses from the OP. Let's use repair tools as an example: the Caldari would get a bonus to rep tool range, but not rate, whereas the Amarr would get a bonus to rate but not range. Maybe gallente gets a little bit of both, idk, but obviously none would be able to match up to a minmatar logi rep tool. Same with uplinks: Again, it's up for debate but let's call it Minmatar get a bonus to number of spawns and Caldari to spawn time. Maybe we just keep the theme of gallente being generalists like their original bonus and they get a little of both. This has been proposed before by others and myself included and has been shot down every time. It's seen as "too complicated" and people say it would require too much work for CCP to do so while I would love to have partial bonuses racial themed it's probably only realistic to have what you first proposed. Maybe in Legion we will have immersive lore in the gameplay....but until then, we just have DUST 514. OK, Kirk, post #2 now has a fully fleshed out proposal based on that idea (properly attributed to you ). (The godfather of tactical logistics)
emm kay G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 207	Posted - 2014.10.03 23:12:00 - [50] - Quote good ideas, but change minmatar from +2 active spawns/ level to +1 carried RE/ level (who DOESN'T want 7 remotes in their pockets?) -- You called, sir?

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1871	Posted - 2014.10.04 06:45:00 - [51] - Quote I prefer the first proposal, although not because the second is bad. Logis should be the kings of all equipment. No one should use them better, and they should improve all aspects of that equipment. More pressingly, Amarr/Caldari logi need another equipment slot and pg/CPU to match. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4149	Posted - 2014.10.08 16:49:00 - [52] - Quote Still important. Also: Lots of badposting going on about logi's this week. (The godfather of tactical logistics)


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