1. It's a bug if it's an unintended effect that they had no real desire to bring to the game. Given that we were not privy to the development process of vehicles as a whole, we only have CCPs word to go on here. If they say it's a bug, it's a bug.

2. No True Scotsman

On the surface I think your point holds a certain amount of water though, a pilot does end up significantly effecting the tank of his vehicle by adding additional turrets to his vehicle. But I can't help but think that even THAT downfall is potentially balanced by the fact that a pilot is now much more "aware" of his surroundings given the extra eyes on the ship, you're more fragile yes but less likely overall to be caught surprised. If that ends up being the case then it ends up as a pretty obvious net buff to the vehicle.

Any true pilot should probably avoid kneejerk reactions to something that is obviously worth a fair bit of discussion.

hello,

Recently CCP posted in their Hotfix charlie post that skill stacking was a bug. Any true vehicle user knows that skill stacking has always been a game mchanic and was not a bug at all. Back when turret operation used to give 2% to damage, it was ideal for pilot/driver and the gunner to both have skills maxed out.

Currently there has been a witch hunt going on about ADS pilots and gunners stacking skills but the reality of the situation is that these are rarely seen in matches. Out of every 3 matches I see 1 ADS with a gunner. Even so, Having a gunner is only beneficial because they can stack. The loss of tank involved in having a gunner, specially in the python, is only justifiable by the fact that the team can get in, deal damage and get out. Even truer now that the incubus damage profiles got switched to take on full swarm damage 80/120 and can be challenged even by militia swarms.

On top of it all, for the stacking to be truly as dangerous as many of the "bug removal advocates" say, both pilots need to be maxed out and even then, the DPS output is just enough to compete with similar weapon systems taking into consideration the drawbacks involved with reducing the tank on an ADS. With an investment of 2.4 million SP each (4.8 combined), the same as getting a proto suit, stacking existence is justified by SP to entry and isk to entry barrier that only the most dedicated pilots and gunners are willing to achieve; which consequently, aren't many.

The sentiment of the forums does not reflect the reality of gameplay. This mechanic which was never considered a bug until now, is not as detrimental to the game as some threads might suggest. The evidence is in game. It's not something everyone does, it's something with a high entry barrier and CCP should do some digging around before they put the bug label on a mechanic that has existed and was iterated upon when the developers chose which skills stack and which don't.

wah wah they are fixing the bug I exploited wah.... all i'm hearing "true vehicle user"

You don't need the stacked skills exploit, solo ADS pilots manage to use the weapons fine to destroy tanks and kill large amounts of infantry, the gunner will still get either his own skills or the pilots and he will still have the advantage of not actually flying the craft and being able to move the turret around independent of the ship, you are chucking a long winded hissy fit for nothing.

And stop BSing about the side guns gimping the tank, its marginally less tanky than the usual fits, unless you are trying to fit all 3 turrets at proto lvl, guess what buddy every vehicle and suit in the game needs to sacrifice something somewhere to be fit in a particular fashion.

Just because a bug wasn't fixed for a long time doesn't make it a feature, skilling up to exploit that bug doesn't justify it being kept around for the handful of players that knew it existed and wanted to exploit it to its fullest.

I will acknowledge it (skill stacking) as a bug, but what about the other bugs around? Does it really effect gameplay that much? Am I the only person who rarely gets shot by an ADS when on foot?

Like anyone I want all bugs fixed, but this one gets my goat because a bug allows 2 people sometimes 3 to gang up on my dropship and shoot it down in under 2 seconds, all their pilot has to do is keep it steady all their gunner has to do is point and shoot, and no matter how well I fly they will win by virtue of having 3 turrets 2 of which can deliver twice my dps.

Even after this bug is fixed they will still have a number of advantages over me, but at least I'll have a fighting chance and they won't have a bug giving them 4k dps when the typical 2k is already amazingly powerful.

Quit defending your crutch. If anything, turrets should be easier to fit. The maximum bonus allowed by standard methods is more than enough for a skilled player to be effective. Right now, players are utilizing a bug that pushes their abilities beyond what was intended (or makes any sense, at all) and now rely heavily on that bug to feel relevant.

Thank you Rattati, for clearing things up and acknowledging that this is, in fact, a BUG.

What is this skill stacking?

oh shut up you mad solo python scrubs. Teamwork>solo flying.

oh shut up you mad solo python scrubs. Teamwork>solo flying.

Abusing bugs doesn't make you a team player, it makes you someone who abuses bugs.

There are plenty of ways to make teamwork viable without having to use an officially bugged mechanic to feel relevant. You should be pushing CCP to make changes to small turrets to make them easier to fit. If solo players can kill vehicles, so can side guns without abusing bugs.

Stop being bad.

Are you stupid? there are allready skills that decrease PG+CPU usage for all kind of turrets. And lol you are just mad cause you know it will most likely never get fixed cause CCP aint doing client updates anymore.

hello,

Recently CCP posted in their Hotfix charlie post that skill stacking was a bug. Any true vehicle user knows that skill stacking has always been a game mchanic and was not a bug at all. Back when turret operation used to give 2% to damage, it was ideal for pilot/driver and the gunner to both have skills maxed out.

Currently there has been a witch hunt going on about ADS pilots and gunners stacking skills but the reality of the situation is that these are rarely seen in matches. Out of every 3 matches I see 1 ADS with a gunner. Even so, Having a gunner is only beneficial because they can stack. The loss of tank involved in having a gunner, specially in the python, is only justifiable by the fact that the team can get in, deal damage and get out. Even truer now that the incubus damage profiles got switched to take on full swarm damage 80/120 and can be challenged even by militia swarms.

On top of it all, for the stacking to be truly as dangerous as many of the "bug removal advocates" say, both pilots need to be maxed out and even then, the DPS output is just enough to compete with similar weapon systems taking into consideration the drawbacks involved with reducing the tank on an ADS. With an investment of 2.4 million SP each (4.8 combined), the same as getting a proto suit, stacking existence is justified by SP to entry and isk to entry barrier that only the most dedicated pilots and gunners are willing to achieve; which consequently, aren't many.

The sentiment of the forums does not reflect the reality of gameplay. This mechanic which was never considered a bug until now, is not as detrimental to the game as some threads might suggest. The evidence is in game. It's not something everyone does, it's something with a high entry barrier and CCP should do some digging around before they put the bug label on a mechanic that has existed and was iterated upon when the developers chose which skills stack and which don't.

hello,

Recently CCP posted in their Hotfix charlie post that skill stacking was a bug. Any true vehicle user knows that skill stacking has always been a game mchanic and was not a bug at all. Back when turret operation used to give 2% to damage, it was ideal for pilot/driver and the gunner to both have skills maxed out.

Currently there has been a witch hunt going on about ADS pilots and gunners stacking skills but the reality of the situation is that these are rarely seen in matches. Out of every 3 matches I see 1 ADS with a gunner. Even so, Having a gunner is only beneficial because they can stack. The loss of tank involved in having a gunner, specially in the python, is only justifiable by the fact that the team can get in, deal damage and get out. Even truer now that the incubus damage profiles got switched to take on full swarm damage 80/120 and can be challenged even by militia swarms.

On top of it all, for the stacking to be truly as dangerous as many of the "bug removal advocates" say, both pilots need to be maxed out and even then, the DPS output is just enough to compete with similar weapon systems taking into consideration the drawbacks involved with reducing the tank on an ADS. With an investment of 2.4 million SP each (4.8 combined), the same as getting a proto suit, stacking existence is justified by SP to entry and isk to entry barrier that only the most dedicated pilots and gunners are willing to achieve; which consequently, aren't many.

The sentiment of the forums does not reflect the reality of gameplay. This mechanic which was never considered a bug until now, is not as detrimental to the game as some threads might suggest. The evidence is in game. It's not something everyone does, it's something with a high entry barrier and CCP should do some digging around before they put the bug label on a mechanic that has existed and was iterated upon when the developers chose which skills stack and which don't.

it seems like it should work that way, might as well get an advantage for spending all that sp, no reason to change it

I like how everyone keeps calling it a bug even though It was in all vehicle iterations. It's not pushing turrets beyond their intended capabilities because CCP intended the skills to stack. Even before the "NEW" vehicle balance stacking was a a thing and CCP was aware of it.


@DUST FIEND: You can keep saying it's a crutch and that it's not intended but the reality is that CCP chose which skills stack and which don't. Or haven't you noticed how proficiency doesn't stack but ammo capacity does. It was an active choice by the developers. You wont get your turret fittings reduction. CCP made the game the way it was and they will say this was a bug because many people, with you spearheading the campaign, started saying it was. I guess you just got tired of being beat by teamwork since I always see you solo.



It's not breaking. I dont know how many times I can say this. If it wasn't intended then how come there are skills that stack and skills that don't? I've given the example, proficiency doesn't stack but ammo capacity does. In previous vehicle iterations when you got turret operation you had 2% damage increase per level and and the skill stacked with pilot/driver and gunner. So your argument is only that it's a bug and that it's a breaking turrets while I give you evidence to the contrary based on it actively being selected what skills stack and what skills don't.

Its a shame that Tankers or LAV pilots did not get skill stackings bonuses......

Certainly dropships were the only ones able to take advantage of this given the inherent and comparable T2 nature of their vehicles.

If Marauder HAV applied a 2% Armour resistance per level to the HAV per pilot would you really suggest that such a vehicle is based of intended mechanics?

It's not breaking. I dont know how many times I can say this. If it wasn't intended then how come there are skills that stack and skills that don't? I've given the example, proficiency doesn't stack but ammo capacity does. In previous vehicle iterations when you got turret operation you had 2% damage increase per level and and the skill stacked with pilot/driver and gunner. So your argument is only that it's a bug and that it's a breaking turrets while I give you evidence to the contrary based on it actively being selected what skills stack and what skills don't.
It's not teamwork. It's abusing a bug to push turrets past their intended capabilities. Teamwork is using your side gunners to give you more coverage and better feedback by communicating with them. It's picking them up and dropping them off. It's rotating your ship when their clip runs dry so the other gunner can apply damage while they reload.

All those things you currently do, are teamwork. Pushing turrets past their intended capabilities, are not.

Sorry, but when the guy who's spearheading the games balance lists the bug as a bug, I'm inclined to believe that the bug is a bug. Don't worry though, no client side patches are coming for a good long while, so you can enjoy your bug and feel skilled while doing it

o7

LAV and tanks don't have this because their vehicles don't have any bonuses to anything yet if you have ammo capacity it stacks. The problem here was that tankers and LAV user got no bonuses not that they actually stack.

I always figured that skills only apply from the guy using the gun to the gun he's using.
That's how it used to work, right?

You're such a baby, I can't believe people seriously need that bonus to feel effective. I feel bad for you.

You bring up "evidence" of past decisions, yet almost all of those changes are gone. Most of our vehicle variants are gone, and the entire way vehicles were presented is gone.

I don't care about this enough to argue it with you, I'm just happy to see a blue finally confirm the bug as a bug. It's a win for me in my book, and it's a win for you because your crutch is going to stay for many more months at least.

Win win

If they did they would have been so ridiculously over powered it would not have been funny.

Additionally I have been on the receiving end of Cyrius Li Moody and 2 Gunners. I dont feel an ADS should have the level of DPS and Impunity to return fire that those 3 had.

However I could understand if all vehicles received stackable benefits. Howver at this time..... its not really possible to justify having one vehicle type with this kind of huge advantage.