DUST Search - Skill Stacking

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

I like how everyone keeps calling it a bug even though It was in all vehicle iterations. It's not pushing turrets beyond their intended capabilities because CCP intended the skills to stack. Even before the "NEW" vehicle balance stacking was a a thing and CCP was aware of it.

@DUST FIEND: You can keep saying it's a crutch and that it's not intended but the reality is that CCP chose which skills stack and which don't. Or haven't you noticed how proficiency doesn't stack but ammo capacity does. It was an active choice by the developers. You wont get your turret fittings reduction. CCP made the game the way it was and they will say this was a bug because many people, with you spearheading the campaign, started saying it was. I guess you just got tired of being beat by teamwork since I always see you solo.

DUST Fiend wrote:

Larry Desmo wrote:

it seems like it should work that way, might as well get an advantage for spending all that sp, no reason to change it

You spend those SP to be a good pilot, not to break turrets beyond their intended capabilities

It's not breaking. I dont know how many times I can say this. If it wasn't intended then how come there are skills that stack and skills that don't? I've given the example, proficiency doesn't stack but ammo capacity does. In previous vehicle iterations when you got turret operation you had 2% damage increase per level and and the skill stacked with pilot/driver and gunner. So your argument is only that it's a bug and that it's a breaking turrets while I give you evidence to the contrary based on it actively being selected what skills stack and what skills don't.


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DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14560	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:33:00 - [1] - Quote Quit defending your crutch. If anything, turrets should be easier to fit. The maximum bonus allowed by standard methods is more than enough for a skilled player to be effective. Right now, players are utilizing a bug that pushes their abilities beyond what was intended (or makes any sense, at all) and now rely heavily on that bug to feel relevant. Thank you Rattati, for clearing things up and acknowledging that this is, in fact, a BUG. The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14560	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:34:00 - [2] - Quote Zindorak wrote: What is this skill stacking? If you have Assault Dropship trained up to 5, you will get 10% additional damage to your small turrets. If you train up Incubus or Python to 5, you will get 50% RoF boost to your respective small turrets. There are also some skills that increase turret rotation, reload, and ammo capacity. With the current bugged system, if someone who has these trained is in your side turret, their skills will stack on top of yours, pushing the turrets beyond their intended maximum efficiency. Not only does this make virtually no sense from any form of lore perspective, it makes no sense from a balancing perspective, and its refreshing to see CCP FINALLY acknowledge that it is, in fact, a bug, despite what some may argue. This stacking also applies if the two players skills aren't maxed, it just becomes aggressively apparent when they are maxed. The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14560	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:33:00 - [3] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: oh shut up you mad solo python scrubs. Teamwork>solo flying. Abusing bugs doesn't make you a team player, it makes you someone who abuses bugs. There are plenty of ways to make teamwork viable without having to use an officially bugged mechanic to feel relevant. You should be pushing CCP to make changes to small turrets to make them easier to fit. If solo players can kill vehicles, so can side guns without abusing bugs. Stop being bad. The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14560	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:10:00 - [4] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: The dark cloud wrote: oh shut up you mad solo python scrubs. Teamwork>solo flying. Abusing bugs doesn't make you a team player, it makes you someone who abuses bugs. There are plenty of ways to make teamwork viable without having to use an officially bugged mechanic to feel relevant. You should be pushing CCP to make changes to small turrets to make them easier to fit. If solo players can kill vehicles, so can side guns without abusing bugs. Stop being bad. Are you stupid? there are allready skills that decrease PG+CPU usage for all kind of turrets. And lol you are just mad cause you know it will most likely never get fixed cause CCP aint doing client updates anymore. I could not begin to care less. There are SO many better games coming out. I'm just amused because I was right. It's a bug. You can argue it till you're blue in the face, but the simple fact is: it's a bug. That's all. Anyone abusing this is abusing a bug and they can do all the mental gymnastics in the world to justify it, but at the end of the day, they're abusing a bug to compensate for their own lack of talent as a pilot The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14561	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:31:00 - [5] - Quote Larry Desmo wrote: it seems like it should work that way, might as well get an advantage for spending all that sp, no reason to change it You spend those SP to be a good pilot, not to break turrets beyond their intended capabilities The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14562	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:08:00 - [6] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I like how everyone keeps calling it a bug even though It was in all vehicle iterations. It's not pushing turrets beyond their intended capabilities because CCP intended the skills to stack. Even before the "NEW" vehicle balance stacking was a a thing and CCP was aware of it. @DUST FIEND: You can keep saying it's a crutch and that it's not intended but the reality is that CCP chose which skills stack and which don't. Or haven't you noticed how proficiency doesn't stack but ammo capacity does. It was an active choice by the developers. You wont get your turret fittings reduction. CCP made the game the way it was and they will say this was a bug because many people, with you spearheading the campaign, started saying it was. I guess you just got tired of being beat by teamwork since I always see you solo. DUST Fiend wrote: Larry Desmo wrote: it seems like it should work that way, might as well get an advantage for spending all that sp, no reason to change it You spend those SP to be a good pilot, not to break turrets beyond their intended capabilities It's not breaking. I dont know how many times I can say this. If it wasn't intended then how come there are skills that stack and skills that don't? I've given the example, proficiency doesn't stack but ammo capacity does. In previous vehicle iterations when you got turret operation you had 2% damage increase per level and and the skill stacked with pilot/driver and gunner. So your argument is only that it's a bug and that it's a breaking turrets while I give you evidence to the contrary based on it actively being selected what skills stack and what skills don't. It's not teamwork. It's abusing a bug to push turrets past their intended capabilities. Teamwork is using your side gunners to give you more coverage and better feedback by communicating with them. It's picking them up and dropping them off. It's rotating your ship when their clip runs dry so the other gunner can apply damage while they reload. All those things you currently do, are teamwork. Pushing turrets past their intended capabilities, are not. Sorry, but when the guy who's spearheading the games balance lists the bug as a bug, I'm inclined to believe that the bug is a bug. Don't worry though, no client side patches are coming for a good long while, so you can enjoy your bug and feel skilled while doing it o7 The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14562	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:16:00 - [7] - Quote You're such a baby, I can't believe people seriously need that bonus to feel effective. I feel bad for you. You bring up "evidence" of past decisions, yet almost all of those changes are gone. Most of our vehicle variants are gone, and the entire way vehicles were presented is gone. I don't care about this enough to argue it with you, I'm just happy to see a blue finally confirm the bug as a bug. It's a win for me in my book, and it's a win for you because your crutch is going to stay for many more months at least. Win win The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14562	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:28:00 - [8] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: has made me lose all respect I had for you. The part of me that cares? Yea, it doesn't. I'm just happy to see CCP acknowledge the bug, and until a blue agrees with you, I'm gonna chalk this up as a win for the good guys. The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14564	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:21:00 - [9] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: I'm not sure if I just feel bad because of the ****-ish way that DUST Fiend was acting, but I kind of want to support Ghazbaran again... Sorry, you're gonna have to speak up, I can't hear you over the sound of Ghazbaran's denial The Future
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14566	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:05:00 - [10] - Quote Moochie Cricket wrote: 1.) Huge SP sink for two people 2.) Requires a large amount of teamwork to work properly 3.) Requires two people to do the job an adept ads pilot can do on his own 4.) Two ads dropships > one ads with a gunner 5.) Gives an incentive to use gunners 6.) Greatly lowers your potential tank 7.) Look in PC battles at the highest level. This is where anything is done to win and FOTM rules supreme. If these stacking skills were OP you would see it everywhere, and I have yet to see anyone use this tactic in PC, myself included. 1.) If both players are pilots, it's not an SP sink, it's what's required to push your bird to it's maximum, which all pilots should strive for. Saying it's an SP sink just alludes to the fact that you would rather double the efficiency of a side turret then actually use your SP for what it was intended for 2.) It actually takes less teamwork than non bugged turrets, since you have to stay on target less, stay in the hot zone for shorter periods of time, reload faster, have huge pools of ammo...etc etc. Basically the bug dramatically reduces what normally would indeed be a teamwork intensive task 3.) This is straight bull ****. No solo pilot will EVER accomplish what bugged side turrets will accomplish because his front turret isn't bugged, and will only ever be half as effective as your bugged side turret. 4.) Again, not true. Those two ships each have to be called out, they have to watch out for each other to not crash especially when being hit by AV, and their main turret only fires half as fast as your bugged side turret. Also, this adds to their vehicle quota 5.) The only reason there is little incentive for side gunners is how obnoxious the fitting cost for small turrets is, and that's not a dropship exclusive issue. If this were addressed there would be plenty of incentive to have a gunner without relying on a bug to feel relevant. 6.) "Greatly" is kind of an overstatement, at least for one side turret which is all you need. And yet again, this comes back to small turrets being too PG/CPU intensive, which as stated, isn't dropship exclusive. 7.) PC battles are actually some of the only places I've seen the tactic, because that's where it's most viable. You abuse the RoF to do sweeps on enemy vehicles and you don't have to be too concerned with having a skilled pilot because usually a single pass is enough to destroy any vehicle before your gunner overheats or has to reload. All in all the bug lowers the amount of teamwork and skill required, and inflates peoples sense of skill. This is one bug that I am very eager to watch get fixed so skilled pilots and gunners can actually stand out again. The Future

DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14567	Posted - 2014.07.11 16:26:00 - [11] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Quantity does not equate to quality but the fact is that PC is a cesspool of everything that is broken in the game. The simple truth of it not being widely used there, or anywhere else in the game, is proof enough that the mechanic is not detrimental to the game at all and that this is all just a pointless witch hunt. [/list] Except that it gets used plenty by top corps because it's how you destroy vehicles effortlessly. The reason you don't see it as often is because dropship pilots are still fairly rare, especially maxed pilots, and then you have to get them together. On top of that, you have to find players willing to utilize bugged game mechanics. This leads to a small pool of players using the bug, not because it's balanced, but because there is simply a small pool of people that actually meet all the requirements to do so. The Future