leave rifles as they are, maybe give them a small reduction in dps, but make every headshot an insta-kill. ^_^

A bit early I know but since CCP Rattati has mentioned they're going to be looked at in hot fix Delta and I've been running Sniper rifles recently I thought I'd give my opinions.

The biggest issue currently facing Snipers is that it takes a proto rifle, with some ****** damage mods, 5 shots to down a heavy (or 2 headshots and some change), often I don't even bother trying to kill them.

This has helped create a situation where heavies can waddle from point to point without fear of being killed

Therefore I think sniper rifles should get damage bonus to heavies (excluding commandos), nothing too significant but enough for them to rethink their assault playstyle. It would also help take out tanked sentinels thale sniping in the red-line

I think Scouts are in a decent place, they can be downed in one with a body shot if not armour tanked (which makes the easier to hit anyway) and quick Caldari Scouts are bloody hard to hit.

Medium suits are fine as well, basic can be taken out with a headshot and there's a balance between speed and armour.

A bit early I know but since CCP Rattati has mentioned they're going to be looked at in hot fix Delta and I've been running Sniper rifles recently I thought I'd give my opinions.

The biggest issue currently facing Snipers is that it takes a proto rifle, with some ****** damage mods, 5 shots to down a heavy (or 2 headshots and some change), often I don't even bother trying to kill them.

This has helped create a situation where heavies can waddle from point to point without fear of being killed

Therefore I think sniper rifles should get damage bonus to heavies (excluding commandos), nothing too significant but enough for them to rethink their assault playstyle. It would also help take out tanked sentinels thale sniping in the red-line

I think Scouts are in a decent place, they can be downed in one with a body shot if not armour tanked (which makes the easier to hit anyway) and quick Caldari Scouts are bloody hard to hit.

Medium suits are fine as well, basic can be taken out with a headshot and there's a balance between speed and armour.

"sniper rifles are just low risk low reward weapons"

erm, no.

they are not working as intended.
sniper rifles are low risk weapons.. ok if you say so.
I was writing out another long winded rebuttal to this statement but really I can't be bothered.
if you think they are so low risk then try running around with one.

the real point here is that it's agreed that the sniper rifles aren,t where they are supposed to be and that is why they are getting reviewed for delta

comments such as this aren't particularly productive and are ranked up there with classics such as "fix red line snipers", etc.

lets try to make something usable here for the upcoming changes.

although that said this really is very early.

as for the thales in the red line, I'm calling it now.....

EXPECT a range nerf!
it will be in delta....
you have been forwarned.

Risk vs Reward

Snipers are the lowest risk weapon.
Force them outside of the redline, make them show up on the TacNet for a brief moment after every shot (forcing them to relocate), and then, by all means, increase their effectiveness.

Until then, Snipers are just low risk, low reward weapons.

You cannot say that a sniper sitting on a tower or deep inside the redline is in as much danger as someone in the heat of the battle where all it takes is one wrong move and you're dead.

There's a reason why in my entire DUST career, I didn't lose a SINGLE Thale's.
Not one.

If you want to reduce redline sniping consider a few things.

1. Make more perches inside the intended combat area. I'll play them. Having said this, I don't routinely redline and I get killed lots by guys running up to me when I'm hacking or drawing a bead on a red.

2. Increase the redline timer, so people can try to hunt me if they want to. God knows if people can get close to me I'm pretty much meat on a stick because a sniper rifle has got no hipfire accuracy and I'll die too fast to a rapid fire weapon.

**********

But you have to address some things that all snipers agree are problems.

1. Crappy damage output from the low and mid-tier sniper rifles. It makes it too hard to claw your way from militia to proto. Way harder than the other weapon types.

2. Headshots with sniper rifles should kill any suit in one shot. Headshots are skill shots and should be rewarded as such.

3. Forcing us into the ck.0 commando/charge sniper rifle/3complex damage mods niche so we can function against other proto and brick tanked suits is too narrow a choice. The commando is an ok suit but it doesn't run too fast. This promotes camping. Where are the safest places to camp? Behind the redline, perchance?

4. Anyone thinking that fukking with sniper rifle range is a solution to any sniper-related problems is asking us to leave the game.

5. Please clean up the zoomed in scope. It's far too busy. A simple crosshair will do nicely. Then I can take the thread crosshair I made off of my TV. The frosted edge is cool and it can stay.

**********

I'm going to be following the upcoming sniper-related changes for hotfix delta very, very closely. I hope to hear and give good, balanced feedback.

There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the sniper scope.


Munch

After taking sniping to proficiency 5, I have found that my Thale's, with proficiency 5, on a commando cko with 3 complex damage mods, is survivable by any of the starter anti-armor fits with a body shot.

Allow me to repeat that. The maximum possible damage a sniper rifle is able to put out, is not sufficient to kill a starter suit with a body shot.

And people want these things nerfed?

gayest role of them all...players with the least risk asking for buffs lulz

If you want to reduce redline sniping consider a few things.

1. Make more perches inside the intended combat area. I'll play them. Having said this, I don't routinely redline and I get killed lots by guys running up to me when I'm hacking or drawing a bead on a red.

2. Increase the redline timer, so people can try to hunt me if they want to. God knows if people can get close to me I'm pretty much meat on a stick because a sniper rifle has got no hipfire accuracy and I'll die too fast to a rapid fire weapon.

**********

But you have to address some things that all snipers agree are problems.

1. Crappy damage output from the low and mid-tier sniper rifles. It makes it too hard to claw your way from militia to proto. Way harder than the other weapon types.

2. Headshots with sniper rifles should kill any suit in one shot. Headshots are skill shots and should be rewarded as such.

3. Forcing us into the ck.0 commando/charge sniper rifle/3complex damage mods niche so we can function against other proto and brick tanked suits is too narrow a choice. The commando is an ok suit but it doesn't run too fast. This promotes camping. Where are the safest places to camp? Behind the redline, perchance?

4. Anyone thinking that fukking with sniper rifle range is a solution to any sniper-related problems is asking us to leave the game.

5. Please clean up the zoomed in scope. It's far too busy. A simple crosshair will do nicely. Then I can take the thread crosshair I made off of my TV. The frosted edge is cool and it can stay.

**********

I'm going to be following the upcoming sniper-related changes for hotfix delta very, very closely. I hope to hear and give good, balanced feedback.

There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the sniper scope.


Munch

[quote=Skyline Lonewolf]

Nice. pay attention folks this is how to say it!


"Can't say that a sniper on a tower or in the red isn't at as much of a risk"
doesn't change the facts.
90% of the time in any kind of direct combat the sniper is defenceless.
if a heavy or a scout, or as of Charlie an assault does get behind you whilst you are ads you lose a clone. no ifs or buts.
if they jump out of a dropship whilst your defending yourself against dropships with say a swarm.. goodnight.
or lets say you use a rail rifle for your second.. then they'll probably just stay in their ads when they come for you. good luck destroying those with your rifles.
There are plenty of positions that I use where even a tiniest little error in judgement means dying, just getting set up!
and that's without even mentioning snipers

low risk indeed. what you mean to say is that they are low risk until the reds decide you are worth bothering to deal with...
I'm sure there IS a reason that you haven't lost a single thales cat.

Redline sniping is a symptom of map design and lack of a progressive game-mode. That is not the fault of the weapon, the playstyle, or the player.



Anecdotal, cherry picked evidence.

Umm, yes, apparently sitting in the redline/on top of a tower puts you at as much risk as an Assault on the frontlines taking fire from 12 people at the same time.

Get real, if you want to bring an assault dropship into the mix I'll bring a tank into the mix.
When was the last time you saw an Assault survive against a blaster tank?

I thought so.

Reduce sniper rifle range to 250m.
You still have far, far more range than any other infantry weapon, and yet you're forcing people outside of the redline.
Is that so hard?

"Anecdotal, cherry picked evidence"
Uhh, if Thale users were at much a risk as any other unit on the battlefield, they would be extremely rare at this point.

Try to use only the Balac, see how fast your supplies run out.

Risk vs Reward

Snipers are the lowest risk weapon.
Force them outside of the redline, make them show up on the TacNet for a brief moment after every shot (forcing them to relocate), and then, by all means, increase their effectiveness.

Until then, Snipers are just low risk, low reward weapons.

250m range is walking distance... You can close the range on that in like 10 seconds... Also thats a 50%+ nerf there... Damn thats even worse than how they ****** the damage mods...

-1

It takes a measure of skill to land a headshot on a moving target.
It takes none whatsoever to stack HP modules.

If a sniper shoots me in the face, I deserve to die.

It doesn't take skill to fit HP modules, but it does take skill to fight on the frontlines.
More than choosing a spot and taking pot shot at targets that can't fight back.

Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)

This is one of the big issues that have created scout/heavy 514 as there are so few mid to long range engagements

It takes less skill to fight on the frontlines than to place headshots on moving targets from 200+ meters.

Getting sniped in the face is just one of those things that happens in FPS. And when it happens, you're supposed to f*cking die.

If you don't like getting sniped in the face, then move around less predictably. Or swap out one of the four heavies in your squad for a sniper to run overwatch.

Redline is not a sniper only thing and I don't think the class should be balanced around it.

Snipers may be able to snipe enemy players in their own red line from far away. Killing enemy red line snipers is fun!

However, we are most certainly not as destructive and oppressive as a rail tank.

To be victimized by a range reduction on any comparable level with a rail tank would be ridiculous.

There is nothing on the field a rail tank cannot destroy.

A sniper however never has a full 16 enemy players available to kill.

Are you in a vehicle? Congratulations GODMODE / ON.

Sniper Nerfs Direct and Indirect
(see below)

Increased Health for any suit running armor plates. lots more hp than in older builds (combined with)
Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with)
Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with)
Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with)
Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with)

I do not want to create tutorials, spoil every sniping spot to anyone possibly reading this, justify every educated opinion, and reveal all I know about successful sniping in Dust 514. Just to prevent CCP from pandering to the masses because they don't know any better. Maybe someday, but not today.

DO NOT NERF SNIPING RANGES.

BAD MAP DESIGN FOR SNIPING REQUIRES IT REMAIN THE SAME.

(the ever changing flow of battle changes the amount of available targets, dedicated sniping requires high spots, meaning drop ships, meaning you're going to be spotted by anything that's vaguely looking for you every time you have to move. The more a sniper has to move to find prey the less effective they will be. The class has suffered enough.)

The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.

The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.

The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.

Just so we'll be clear, I am against snipers being able to kill non stupid targets (I.E targets that don't stand still and don't cross open fields under sniper fire) while at the same time being impossible to kill without another sniper or an assault dropship.

If I can use stealth to get close and pump a shotgun into your face, I do not care if you can one shot my scout or two shot my assault.

That's still me leaving the frontlines just to kill you.
Wasting time that could be used on taking a point to kill specifically you.

So... yeah, fair's fair.

You just want revenge kills with no additional effort.

LAST I CHECKED THEY DIDN'T NERF COVER.

so stop running around like you own the place and deal with ranged threats accordingly.


I get an unbelievable amount of kills from those same red line snipers. They're generally all so terrible. I doubt I'll ever understand this issue. Assuredly because I'm not terrible. The best players in the game don't find the time to complain about this because it's not game breaking and effects generally nothing.

You fear any buff to the sniper rifle will make this a relevant problem. You want to hit snipers with the ump'teenth nerf bat just so you can sleep well at night for when they do finally get balanced.

How about we test it without screwing the range class out of it's most defining characteristic first.

I want to one shot everything from the safety of my MCC with no consequences.

Make it happen CCP, Sniping is way too hard :(

A bit early I know but since CCP Rattati has mentioned they're going to be looked at in hot fix Delta and I've been running Sniper rifles recently I thought I'd give my opinions.

The biggest issue currently facing Snipers is that it takes a proto rifle, with some ****** damage mods, 5 shots to down a heavy (or 2 headshots and some change), often I don't even bother trying to kill them.

This has helped create a situation where heavies can waddle from point to point without fear of being killed

Therefore I think sniper rifles should get damage bonus to heavies (excluding commandos), nothing too significant but enough for them to rethink their assault playstyle. It would also help take out tanked sentinels thale sniping in the red-line

I think Scouts are in a decent place, they can be downed in one with a body shot if not armour tanked (which makes the easier to hit anyway) and quick Caldari Scouts are bloody hard to hit.

Medium suits are fine as well, basic can be taken out with a headshot and there's a balance between speed and armour.

35 seconds for an assault.

You want high damage + hit scan? You need to be within retaliation range.

Battlefield snipers aren't hit scan, so landing a long range shot actually takes skill.

I would like a permanent insta-ban for anyone who brings up the redline in sniper threads. That's sniper rifle related, right?

Considering sniper rifle changes without thinking about the effect it will have on people using the redline will not lead to balance

Considering sniper rifle changes without thinking about the effect it will have on people using the redline will not lead to balance

I red line snipe in pc. I destroy outer.heaven.

I am a huge threat.

All the cool kids are doing it.

You call nerfing damage mods balance?

Snipers lost 10-12% damage from that change not too long ago.

That change had nothing to do with snipers.

A minimum of a 10% damage increase to snipers is something they likely deserve.

(Meaning the 10% bonus from Caldari Commando at prototype would be an actual bonus. Instead of damage retainment.)

amongst other things like an increased headshot multiplier, which also won't help red line snipers..

not that they're important, because honestly you're deceiving yourself if you think they're an issue.

Was it within 400m?

Also, clearly based on you data mining score Symbioticforks, you're more than just an annoyance

So now then shall we get back to topic folks?

i doubt that there is any point in asking for realistic ballistics on snipers, that would require new game mechanics.
it would also mean that for balance, we would need to add it to all weapons.

and with it being a rail gun, i doubt that we even know the realistic ballistics, even then after all that. the modern day snipers can hit something hand sized from 600-800 meters if they know what they are doing.

so lets not worry too much about realism right now.

so what would you like them to change for us?

10 things i personally would like

1 the head shot damage to be improved
2 the rendering issues to fixed
3 the charge rifle noise to be changed
4 the charge rifles base damage to increase slightly
5 a reduction in the charge time
6 damage mods to not be included in creating the profiles for sniper rifles
7 a scan/tag system to be introduced for snipers
8 adjustable scopes
9 a greater difference between the charge, normal, and tactical sniper rifles.
10 for the ammo skill to be changed into a skill that is actually worth putting points into.

This may seem like alot to ask for, but that really depends on how much of it you expect to actually get...

so go ahead folks, lets see some lists.