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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
320
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Posted - 2014.08.02 01:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Redline is not a sniper only thing and I don't think the class should be balanced around it. 
Snipers may be able to snipe enemy players in their own red line from far away. Killing enemy red line snipers is fun! 
However, we are most certainly not as destructive and oppressive as a rail tank.
To be victimized by a range reduction on any comparable level with a rail tank would be ridiculous.
There is nothing on the field a rail tank cannot destroy. 
A sniper however never has a full 16 enemy players available to kill.
Are you in a vehicle? Congratulations GODMODE / ON.
Sniper Nerfs Direct and Indirect
(see below)
Increased Health for any suit running armor plates. lots more hp than in older builds (combined with)
Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with)
Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with)
Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with)
Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with)
I do not want to create tutorials, spoil every sniping spot to anyone possibly reading this, justify every educated opinion, and reveal all I know about successful sniping in Dust 514. Just to prevent CCP from pandering to the masses because they don't know any better. Maybe someday, but not today.
DO NOT NERF SNIPING RANGES.
BAD MAP DESIGN FOR SNIPING REQUIRES IT REMAIN THE SAME.
(the ever changing flow of battle changes the amount of available targets, dedicated sniping requires high spots, meaning drop ships, meaning you're going to be spotted by anything that's vaguely looking for you every time you have to move. The more a sniper has to move to find prey the less effective they will be. The class has suffered enough.)
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 07:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.
And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.
Here's what you're missing.
If it takes me a drop ship to get to the roof a building. It should take you the same time and effort to dislodge me. What is wrong with that Cat Merc? Please explain.
I can still be hit by rail tanks, forge guns, attack drop ships, a suicide militia HMG/Viper combo, counter-snipers, orbitals. If not in the red line you can scratch suicide off the HMG/Viper combo. 50% of the playing field is generally a heavy of some sort these days anyway.
I don't have the sweeping mobility of a tank. Nor do I have the destructive power of a tank. Nor do I have the 4-6khp of a tank. It sounds like you want to balance risk/reward around isk. Which is hurtful to new players and meaningless to veterans.
Please do not misunderstand. I do 85-90% of my sniping OUT OF THE RED LINE. By other dedicated snipers I'm considered one of the most aggressive. Taking forward, and generally obvious positions. I have never been content sniping from the red line, because I do not consider going 5/0.. 10/0.. an acceptable contribution.
HOWEVER IF THE BEST SNIPING SPOT IS THE IN THE RED LINE I WILL TAKE IT.
Which is sometimes the case. Meaning your wish is to eliminate effective sniping from certain randomly generated maps. Creating stupid king of the hill scenarios where there is only one good spot for snipers on either team to choose from. This is not dynamic, not sandbox, not creative, not fun.
I have to oppose this.
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 08:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
You just want revenge kills with no additional effort.
LAST I CHECKED THEY DIDN'T NERF COVER.
so stop running around like you own the place and deal with ranged threats accordingly.
I get an unbelievable amount of kills from those same red line snipers. They're generally all so terrible. I doubt I'll ever understand this issue. Assuredly because I'm not terrible. The best players in the game don't find the time to complain about this because it's not game breaking and effects generally nothing.
You fear any buff to the sniper rifle will make this a relevant problem. You want to hit snipers with the ump'teenth nerf bat just so you can sleep well at night for when they do finally get balanced.
How about we test it without screwing the range class out of it's most defining characteristic first.
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2014.08.02 08:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.
And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.
Dust 514 is rock, paper, scissors.
Vehicles = Rock
Sniper = Scissors
This is the way the game is set up. If you don't like feel free to uninstall.
You should also understand that your hate speech is placing you into the bottom two categories of why snipers get hate. It seems pretty clear to me.
- Snipers get hate because it's personal.
You focus a target and prevent them from being combat effective. Sometimes you repeat this on particular targets of interest. The range of responses you'll receive varies. A snipers inbox is often a treasure trove of hilarious hate mail.
- Snipers get hate because it's a starter fit.
New players will spawn with a sniper rifle and head straight for the hills. Someone with no experience is likely to do the same thing as well. They have no developed skill, and almost no clue. They're ineffective and annoying at best. This helps to warp the general view of the role into something negative. (At least 4 of the snipers you pushed off the ledge were Militia fit snipers.)
- Snipers get hate because of poor map design.
Sometimes the best sniping location is in the red line. This cannot be helped. It could be a tall building, a mountain, or the MCC itself. However, chaining a bunch of kills together from 450-550 is time consuming, difficult*, and less effective generally. (this is why sniper rifle ranges should not be shorter, bad map design) If given the option though I prefer the risk / reward of a more forward position to snipe from. It requires more skill* and effort. You need to get posted, often at the cost of losing a drop ship every single match, and be ready to defend yourself from incoming threats that may try and dislodge you. Many opt for the safety of the red line, but again ineffectiveness is often their reward.
*difficult as in put small dot on an even smaller target.
*skill as in surviving threats while still doing well.
- Snipers get hate because it's not what most people do.
The bread and butter of Dust 514 consists of meat grinding infantry. As a sniper you're removed from that, and people feel cheated of an opportunity to kill you because you're not directly in front of them. This generates hatred of the role. If you don't snipe, you generally hate snipers. Rightfully so! Use cover and never stop moving you lazy idiots!
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
356
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Posted - 2014.08.04 17:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:TheEnd762 wrote:I would like a permanent insta-ban for anyone who brings up the redline in sniper threads. That's sniper rifle related, right? Considering sniper rifle changes without thinking about the effect it will have on people using the redline will not lead to balance
I red line snipe in pc. I destroy outer.heaven.
I am a huge threat.
All the cool kids are doing it.
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
356
|
Posted - 2014.08.04 17:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
You call nerfing damage mods balance?
Snipers lost 10-12% damage from that change not too long ago.
That change had nothing to do with snipers.
A minimum of a 10% damage increase to snipers is something they likely deserve.
(Meaning the 10% bonus from Caldari Commando at prototype would be an actual bonus. Instead of damage retainment.)
amongst other things like an increased headshot multiplier, which also won't help red line snipers..
not that they're important, because honestly you're deceiving yourself if you think they're an issue.
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
367
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 23:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Symbioticforks wrote:Juno Tristan wrote:TheEnd762 wrote:I would like a permanent insta-ban for anyone who brings up the redline in sniper threads. That's sniper rifle related, right? Considering sniper rifle changes without thinking about the effect it will have on people using the redline will not lead to balance I red line snipe in pc. I destroy outer.heaven. I am a huge threat. All the cool kids are doing it. Was it within 400m? Also, clearly based on you data mining score Symbioticforks, you're more than just an annoyance
Read more of my posts on the forum and you would discover that I'm a really aggressive sniper. I don't snipe in the red line unless it's the best spot to be. (almost never) The post before was sarcastic, if you were following the thread or knew me you likely would have picked up on that. Sorry.
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
367
|
Posted - 2014.08.06 23:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
 If you reduce sniper rifle range.. it will buff red line snipers..
HOW? THAT MAKES NO SENSE!?
Most often as another sniper, it's my job to kill these guys when they're annoying my teammates.
I do this from tall fixed forward locations on the map.. The height prevents an enemy sniper from "head glitching" effectively against me. If that was their intention. If you introduce a shorter range, the red line sniper with infinite space in which to move can not only skirt the engagement, but dictate when and where he can be sniped from these locations. Moving forward 1m, taking a shot, moving back 1m. Rinse and repeat they have all the advantage against non red line snipers.
If you want to fix sniping, consult those who snipe.
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