[quote=Skyline Lonewolf]

Nice. pay attention folks this is how to say it!


"Can't say that a sniper on a tower or in the red isn't at as much of a risk"
doesn't change the facts.
90% of the time in any kind of direct combat the sniper is defenceless.
if a heavy or a scout, or as of Charlie an assault does get behind you whilst you are ads you lose a clone. no ifs or buts.
if they jump out of a dropship whilst your defending yourself against dropships with say a swarm.. goodnight.
or lets say you use a rail rifle for your second.. then they'll probably just stay in their ads when they come for you. good luck destroying those with your rifles.
There are plenty of positions that I use where even a tiniest little error in judgement means dying, just getting set up!
and that's without even mentioning snipers

low risk indeed. what you mean to say is that they are low risk until the reds decide you are worth bothering to deal with...
I'm sure there IS a reason that you haven't lost a single thales cat.

Redline sniping is a symptom of map design and lack of a progressive game-mode. That is not the fault of the weapon, the playstyle, or the player.



Anecdotal, cherry picked evidence.

Umm, yes, apparently sitting in the redline/on top of a tower puts you at as much risk as an Assault on the frontlines taking fire from 12 people at the same time.

Get real, if you want to bring an assault dropship into the mix I'll bring a tank into the mix.
When was the last time you saw an Assault survive against a blaster tank?

I thought so.

Reduce sniper rifle range to 250m.
You still have far, far more range than any other infantry weapon, and yet you're forcing people outside of the redline.
Is that so hard?

"Anecdotal, cherry picked evidence"
Uhh, if Thale users were at much a risk as any other unit on the battlefield, they would be extremely rare at this point.

Try to use only the Balac, see how fast your supplies run out.

Risk vs Reward

Snipers are the lowest risk weapon.
Force them outside of the redline, make them show up on the TacNet for a brief moment after every shot (forcing them to relocate), and then, by all means, increase their effectiveness.

Until then, Snipers are just low risk, low reward weapons.

250m range is walking distance... You can close the range on that in like 10 seconds... Also thats a 50%+ nerf there... Damn thats even worse than how they ****** the damage mods...

-1

It takes a measure of skill to land a headshot on a moving target.
It takes none whatsoever to stack HP modules.

If a sniper shoots me in the face, I deserve to die.

It doesn't take skill to fit HP modules, but it does take skill to fight on the frontlines.
More than choosing a spot and taking pot shot at targets that can't fight back.

Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)

This is one of the big issues that have created scout/heavy 514 as there are so few mid to long range engagements

It takes less skill to fight on the frontlines than to place headshots on moving targets from 200+ meters.

Getting sniped in the face is just one of those things that happens in FPS. And when it happens, you're supposed to f*cking die.

If you don't like getting sniped in the face, then move around less predictably. Or swap out one of the four heavies in your squad for a sniper to run overwatch.

Redline is not a sniper only thing and I don't think the class should be balanced around it.

Snipers may be able to snipe enemy players in their own red line from far away. Killing enemy red line snipers is fun!

However, we are most certainly not as destructive and oppressive as a rail tank.

To be victimized by a range reduction on any comparable level with a rail tank would be ridiculous.

There is nothing on the field a rail tank cannot destroy.

A sniper however never has a full 16 enemy players available to kill.

Are you in a vehicle? Congratulations GODMODE / ON.

Sniper Nerfs Direct and Indirect
(see below)

Increased Health for any suit running armor plates. lots more hp than in older builds (combined with)
Proficiency Skill +15% damage versus armor only (instead of flat damage to both shields and armor) (combined with)
Damage Mod Decrease getting 12% damage from 3 of these mods instead of 24% (combined with)
Gallente Map Packs designed to be unfriendly for snipers (combined with)
No Adjustment to the Sniper Rifle in an unbelievable amount of time to keep the weapon up to date. (combined with)
Sniping in a Heavy Suit for a 10% bonus to sniper rifle damage. It feels almost forced. (combined with)
Stealth Removal of Sniping Locations without warning or patch notes (combined with)
Easymode Attack Drop Ships for high rate of fire splash damage anywhere you want it. (combined with)
Cloaks and 1500hp Heavies pick one miss a lot more than normal or waste your time chipping away (combined with)
Reduced AV Grenades in both damage + amount carried. Used to be decent drop ship defense (combined with)
Increased Drop Ship Health so much so that you can't even carry enough AV grenades to kill one! (combined with)
Fog of War /ON to no longer see what your squad sees. Waste time scanning over teammates(combined with)
Z-fighting enemies render invisible against certain surfaces, what a huge waste of time (combined with)
Removal of Mountains forcing snipers to relocate to more ground level or obvious positions. (combined with)

I do not want to create tutorials, spoil every sniping spot to anyone possibly reading this, justify every educated opinion, and reveal all I know about successful sniping in Dust 514. Just to prevent CCP from pandering to the masses because they don't know any better. Maybe someday, but not today.

DO NOT NERF SNIPING RANGES.

BAD MAP DESIGN FOR SNIPING REQUIRES IT REMAIN THE SAME.

(the ever changing flow of battle changes the amount of available targets, dedicated sniping requires high spots, meaning drop ships, meaning you're going to be spotted by anything that's vaguely looking for you every time you have to move. The more a sniper has to move to find prey the less effective they will be. The class has suffered enough.)

The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.

The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.

The only people who will be affected by a range cut to 300~ meters will be redline snipers, and those guys have no right to one shot people who can't retaliate.

And in case you're wondering, I don't think any infantry unit by itself should be worth an orbital or a vehicle to clear it out, only multiple infantry working together, so don't even try arguing that.

Just so we'll be clear, I am against snipers being able to kill non stupid targets (I.E targets that don't stand still and don't cross open fields under sniper fire) while at the same time being impossible to kill without another sniper or an assault dropship.

If I can use stealth to get close and pump a shotgun into your face, I do not care if you can one shot my scout or two shot my assault.

That's still me leaving the frontlines just to kill you.
Wasting time that could be used on taking a point to kill specifically you.

So... yeah, fair's fair.

You just want revenge kills with no additional effort.

LAST I CHECKED THEY DIDN'T NERF COVER.

so stop running around like you own the place and deal with ranged threats accordingly.


I get an unbelievable amount of kills from those same red line snipers. They're generally all so terrible. I doubt I'll ever understand this issue. Assuredly because I'm not terrible. The best players in the game don't find the time to complain about this because it's not game breaking and effects generally nothing.

You fear any buff to the sniper rifle will make this a relevant problem. You want to hit snipers with the ump'teenth nerf bat just so you can sleep well at night for when they do finally get balanced.

How about we test it without screwing the range class out of it's most defining characteristic first.

I want to one shot everything from the safety of my MCC with no consequences.

Make it happen CCP, Sniping is way too hard :(

A bit early I know but since CCP Rattati has mentioned they're going to be looked at in hot fix Delta and I've been running Sniper rifles recently I thought I'd give my opinions.

The biggest issue currently facing Snipers is that it takes a proto rifle, with some ****** damage mods, 5 shots to down a heavy (or 2 headshots and some change), often I don't even bother trying to kill them.

This has helped create a situation where heavies can waddle from point to point without fear of being killed

Therefore I think sniper rifles should get damage bonus to heavies (excluding commandos), nothing too significant but enough for them to rethink their assault playstyle. It would also help take out tanked sentinels thale sniping in the red-line

I think Scouts are in a decent place, they can be downed in one with a body shot if not armour tanked (which makes the easier to hit anyway) and quick Caldari Scouts are bloody hard to hit.

Medium suits are fine as well, basic can be taken out with a headshot and there's a balance between speed and armour.