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Rattati, Let's talk about OBs...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Funkmaster Whale Whale Farm 2321	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:08:00 - [1] - Quote So I think I've made the likes of this thread like three times now over the past year and a half of my DUST career. It seems a lot of people have agreed but it's never really gone anywhere beyond a thread. Well, we have an awesome Dev now who is very willing to listen to feedback so here we go again. The simple premise is this: OBs are too simple and easy to get. Over the past year more and more ways to earn WP have been added resulting in games that are saturated with IWIN buttons. The concept is cool. It's really cool, but in terms of balance it puts many players in a very precarious position. Initially, the 2500 WP requirement was conceived when squads were limited to 4 players. This was feasible as it meant in a full squad each player needed an average of around 600 - 700 WP to get a single OB. That's 12 - 14 kills for each player. This doesn't include hacking, repping, reviving, or whatever else one may do for points in a game. Fast forward to now, squads are now 6 players and many things that didn't give warpoints do today: scanning, transport, vehicle damage, counter-hacking, destroying equipment... maybe a few others. Consider also that vehicle users are racking up points like never before with the vehicle damage points. I run exclusively solo nowadays as a challenge to get OBs solo. You can watch me on my stream or go check my Past Broadcasts as proof. If it's a map with turrets I'll usually quickly drop a tank and can easily shoot myself up to like 1000+ WP within minutes of the game starting, go around drop some uplinks, switch to slayer fit and within a few minutes it's not all that hard to hit 2500 solo if there's good, consistent opposition. So I can play and with relative easy get one-man orbitals in a good percentage of my games... what the hell is a 6-man squad of protostomping slayers doing? Oh yeah, dropping OBs every few minutes for free kills. The team that's dominating is rewarded by making it even easier for them to dominate. This doesn't really make much sense from a balance standpoint. The OB requirement should easily be doubled to 5,000. With a 6-man squad that's 800-850 WP a person for an OB. That I think would actually make OBs a challenging, rewarding goal that wouldn't really be achievable without a good squad. It would at least cut the pubstomping a bit. On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Ambush is already limited to so few clones. A single OB that has the potential to wipe the enemy team on their spawn wave. It's happened several times to everyone here I'm sure: you and your team just all died in Ambush; you all proceed to respawn in a new location that isn't under cover; BZZZAAAOOWWWW.... OB turns your team to dust. This nonsense needs to stop. You already got rid of tanks (sorta), go one step further making Ambush the ultimate Deathmatch mode by disabling OB support. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 4082	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:11:00 - [2] - Quote Yup. +1 PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Mortedeamor NoGameNoLife 1725	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:51:00 - [3] - Quote yeah i have actually pulled 3 obs by myself...ccp raise it to something reasonable like 4 k wp or 5 k wp..i would even be up for 6 k wp making each person in the squad have to get over 1 k to get one
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11348	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:53:00 - [4] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Where does it say that? Where does it say that a corporation does not have aligned pilots on standby for Orbital Strike? " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
Forlorn Destrier 2586	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:56:00 - [5] - Quote Agreed - going 6/9 and earning 3000 WP solo earlier today was ridiculous. If I can easily make that many WP's and call my own OB, something needs to be done to make them less common. Raising the WP required seems a good idea. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 625	Posted - 2014.06.30 02:06:00 - [6] - Quote I think it should work like this. 3 or less Squad Members- 2,500 4 or more Squad Members- 5,000 Also WP from dropping an OB should either not go for the next OB or only give you half of the WP. EX: Kill with OB is worth 25 instead of 50 WP. Don't you shiver PS News VIZZZIAM
Forlorn Destrier 2586	Posted - 2014.06.30 02:10:00 - [7] - Quote I suspect this change may require a client fix though - not a server one. Not sure. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3892	Posted - 2014.06.30 02:13:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Where does it say that? Where does it say that a corporation does not have aligned pilots on standby for Orbital Strike? It's a warbarge strike, and ambush does not seem to have a warbarge. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
The Eristic Dust 90210 498	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:33:00 - [9] - Quote Pub OBs should be pure EMP, a giant flux bombardment that takes out enemy shields and destroys any equipment caught in the blast radius, imo. The reward should be more of a support tool, rather than outright killing (especially in a TDM mode like Ambush), and makes using an OB to farm up another OB more difficult, as it requires your team to actually push where it was dropped and finish off the wounded, giving the squad leader +25s instead of +50s. Would help with assaulting entrenched and/or covered opponents, as well, since flux deals damage through walls. FW and PC can still be whatever your pilots bring to the party. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11361	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:39:00 - [10] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Where does it say that? Where does it say that a corporation does not have aligned pilots on standby for Orbital Strike? It's a warbarge strike, and ambush does not seem to have a warbarge. You cannot see a warbarge from the ground....... its in Orbit........ if you are talking no warbarge time between deployment and spawn.....you don't often get that for any public match. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."

OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 99	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:49:00 - [11] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: scanning You'd get more from a compact hive than a proto scanner. Quote: vehicle users are racking up points like never before with the vehicle damage points. Yeah, VEHICLE USERS. Because Gunnlogis don't give you WP when you damage their shields, and AV rarely gets under them. Quote: I'll usually quickly drop a tank and can easily shoot myself up to like 1000+ WP within minutes of the game starting, go around drop some uplinks, switch to slayer fit and within a few minutes it's not all that hard to hit 2500 solo if there's good, consistent opposition. Better off with Logi. I used to spawn Sicas and do the same thing but not only did it get boring, but when I became a heavy even that out-classed it for WP. The Logi definitely doesn't even have to bother blowing up turrets first. He's better off setting up droplinks. Quote: It's happened several times to everyone here I'm sure: you and your team just all died in Ambush; you all proceed to respawn in a new location that isn't under cover; BZZZAAAOOWWWW.... OB turns your team to dust. I can vouch for this. A lot of what you're saying is true and you make valid points. Literally all you have to do to exploit this is sit in the OB screen, wait for the entire crowd of blueberries your team just slaughtered to respawn, and in some maps they will stick out like sore thumbs because they look like dark black ants crawling in the sand. Boom, a 16 kill orbital. If the community decides to keep vehicles in OMS, this is definitely the way to go because it prevents cheap spawn kills from dropping OBs on the Bolas in a match where there are only 2 vehicles allowed in the first place.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 987	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:58:00 - [12] - Quote Part of me would like friendly fire enabled specifically for orbitals. It makes for rather lame tactics, where you just drop an orbital on your own head, and boom rush to objective as its falling. Lame. I'd also say that orbitals should never reward you. Ever. Because the orbital IS THE REWARD. Rich get richer mechanics are lame. And a reward rewarding you with more rewards is exactly that: Lame. Anyway, orbitals are terribly lame. A rework to make these lame things not-lame would be a welcome alteration to this game. I am a minotaur.
Atiim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 10012	Posted - 2014.06.30 04:03:00 - [13] - Quote I'm just going to paste these posts that I made from a while back: Atiim wrote: I have a better idea. First, increase the WP required for a Warbarge Strike. These things should be used as "game changers" as opposed to a win button used to exacerbate stomping, especially when you consider how a single Warbarge Strike can annihilate an entire team. The requirements for one are 2500WP simply because squads used to only have 4 people, and there weren't nearly as many ways to earn WP as we have now. I do agree with removing the ability to gain WP earned from the Warbarge. The average strike gets about 10 kills, which leads to about 500WP. If you have the squad members repair the leader that squad can earn up to 2250WP from the Guardian action, and when you have everyone scan the area before dropping the Warbarge, the squad can earn 750WP from Intel Kill Assists. That alone is 3575WP, which can grant a squad yet another Warbarge Strike and still leave them with a spare 1075WP (that's half of the WP required for another Warbarge Strike mind you). However, I do believe there should be a small reward for using the Warbarge Strike, as you are making a contribution to the team by using one. I think 100-150WP for Warbarge Deployment would seem fair. Atiim wrote: Awry Barux wrote: [...] I'd say 7200 WP would be best. That way every member of the squad would have to make at least 1200 WP to get one. -HAND Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Atiim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 10012	Posted - 2014.06.30 04:07:00 - [14] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Yeah, VEHICLE USERS. Because Gunnlogis don't give you WP when you damage their shields, and AV rarely gets under them. What AV Weapon are you using? Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 141	Posted - 2014.06.30 05:49:00 - [15] - Quote I'm in full agreement that 2,500 wp is far to easily achieved for an orbital. It needs to be doubled if not tripled to drop an orbital. Drop ship orbital are the best for full sad base play. Defend order on drop ship, sl drops ob and jumps in drop ship. Everyone received +42 vehicle kill assist, commission off assists, points for kills, points for equipment and more then likely another orbital to terrorize your opponent. Rinse and repeat. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1862	Posted - 2014.06.30 06:01:00 - [16] - Quote Honestly WB strikes shouldn't net the squad anything. The squad leader shouldn't even get kills off of it, let alone points. All it is is pushing a button on a map. The point of the WB is to help your team, not farm kills. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Schecter 666 Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2014.06.30 11:54:00 - [17] - Quote Obs are a cheap way for bad players to get cheap and easy kills. I'm sick of seeing people clear an entire objective or win a game of ambush just through pushing x They have no place in this game and should be removed from all game modes. I an sick of spawning and dying 3 times in a row to obs from the same person! All they do is Mark a logi get them to repair them resupply them and use hives hide around a corner to take damage farm orbital and repeat! Ccp you really do need to stop letting teams who are winning win even more: if a team is crushing you it's very demoralizing to then get OB'd by them

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3424	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:14:00 - [18] - Quote I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

I-Shayz-I I----------I 3838	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:31:00 - [19] - Quote In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 8	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:49:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. It should be almost impossible for a heavy/squad that's been trapped to escape before the bomb goes off, but CCP liked killing that. id like to know where all the MMO here is going because im not a fan of shooters so if yall take all the mmo youve removed from dust and just put it in another game i guess ill play it instead with a bad taste in my mouth

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 576	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:56:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. To be honest, rewarding a squad for war points alone Has always been the reason that people farm for OBs. If WPs mattered but were not the primary criteria then we'd be better off. Perhaps a metric for determining contribution of effort. Perhaps only WPs with regards to Objectives are factored in: so hacking Null Cannons becomes important, but also a lesser value for CRUs (as important strategic locations) and Depots (less than CRUs), with Installations being the lowest value. At that point, WP farming still has an effect on your payout but won't net you an OB. Along with that alteration, thou could move to a timer based OB system like other folks have suggested in other threads: - based on MCC damage and awarded to the 'best' squad (most objective WP as above) since the last OB was awarded - based solely on time like in FW (or is it just EVE OB timed, with the 'barge on WP? I forget...)/PC, where the 'best' squad gets it ...with a system to stop one squad getting all of them. What do you think Rattati?
QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 34	Posted - 2014.06.30 13:10:00 - [22] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. here are proofs from this month games (only logis) 3 man sqd and 4 man sqd Hopefully for redberries we are small corp and we play very rare in full sqd. IMHO 5000 WP for OB is ok. QRT30 - all Caldari lvl 5, core maxed QRT300 - Amarr heavy/commando
Fremder V1 Armed And Aimless 14	Posted - 2014.06.30 13:49:00 - [23] - Quote While i agree that it is quite easy to get orbitals right now, and wouldn't mind an ambush without them, they do have some positives asspects too, which i didn't saw mentioned in this thread yet... Besides the simple fact that dropping orbitals can be fun, they also help to motivate squad members which usually don't get much points of their own. It gives them rightfully the feeling that they still contribute to the squad/team. Increasing the required WP for orbitals simultaneously decreases this factor. Make it high enough, and new player are completly shut out of that game mechanic. They will be less and less welcomend in squads, and most won't get a chance to drop an orbital of their own for a long time.
Bright Steel Tears Of Wars 21	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:04:00 - [24] - Quote I think it should be timed in between too. So that you don't get those back to back orbitals over the CRU The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 890	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:20:00 - [25] - Quote What about removing war barge strikes from PC matches? Dust/Eve transfers
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1400	Posted - 2014.06.30 15:34:00 - [26] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. I had a game similar to this earlier today leading a Rainbow tanker+slayer squad. My first OB was good (five kills or so) but after that they were coming so quickly I was pretty much dropping them at random, including three in the enemy redline for a total of zero kills (because I'm a massive scrub ). The moral of the story is: 1. It's too easy to get OBs 2. I shouldn't be allowed to be squad leader
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1400	Posted - 2014.06.30 15:42:00 - [27] - Quote QRT30 wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. here are proofs from this month games (only logis) 3 man sqd and 4 man sqd Hopefully for redberries we are small corp and we play very rare in full sqd. IMHO 5000 WP for OB is ok. I'm curious, how did your whole squad get such high WP given you don't have many kills (except Ardanis in the second game)? Are you all tanking/logi-ing, or what?
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 265	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:17:00 - [28] - Quote +1 Though I support a jump to 4k for OB first see how it pans out then go to 5k if it is obvious that it needs adjustment or 4.5k, but yes in some matches my squad has gotten over 4+ OBs launched, we had more OBs just the enemy got wise and spread out more so not to be vaporized.
MINA Longstrike 950	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:48:00 - [29] - Quote All this would change is that it would place orbitals out of the reach of all but full squads, which were already earning them anyways due to high logi WP gain and abuse of defend orders. Simply put, warpoints required for an orbital should scale to the number of people in the squad, and the squad-order system needs a rework. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2393	Posted - 2014.06.30 17:27:00 - [30] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. Totally unrealistic Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given

Mortedeamor NoGameNoLife 1749	Posted - 2014.06.30 17:38:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. yeah seriously dude i can break 5 k wp by myself 50% of the time. ..granted im not one logi..im one omnipotent amarrian but still thank you
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 11	Posted - 2014.06.30 17:59:00 - [32] - Quote what no i dont want the orbital stike to increase in wp required. its kind of hard to reach 1k wp and in a squad full of newbies or bad players its harder
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 306	Posted - 2014.06.30 19:31:00 - [33] - Quote Why not spice things up a bit, like CEO Pyrex suggests in this video (at 05:00), whereupon the loosing team will get the WP requirements lowered to help them get info the game again. So, raise the WP to 5000 initially for both teams, but as the difference starts to increase between the MCCs (EHP), the amount is reduced by X per % difference. (Close call matches should not get WP benefit) I would also remove the WP earned for orbitals to reduce farming for the next. As other have already stated, an OB is a reward for the WP you have earned.
Draden Brohiem D3ATH CARD 8	Posted - 2014.06.30 19:52:00 - [34] - Quote +1 time to step it up a notch dust community!
lunatis orrak Battlefield Brawlers 31	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:08:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. The warbarge score was set to 2500 for a sqaud of 4 therefore a squad of 6 should score a strike at 3750. Rattati youve been doing a good job fixing stuff please try not to over fix something thats not that broken bandaids brother bandaids CHUBBY CHASER FOR LIFE `!BEWARE MY FAT BULLDOGS! The leash is not for your protection`
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 243	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:12:00 - [36] - Quote go ahead, double it, the proto squads will still get OB's but the the ones getting stomped will just have an even tougher time getting one. go ahead remove OB's from ambush... they are over powered... so are heavies, and organized squads.... remove them too? lets just remove everything from ambush except players who cant play well... then ambush will be perfect...
The Eristic Dust 90210 503	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:36:00 - [37] - Quote Outright doubling it will just screw over smaller squads, those containing new or less hardcore players and those containing players who perform roles that don't necessarily earn tons of WP, while making no real difference to stacked proto, vehicle and farming squads. Could make it so that each successive orbital requires x amount or % more WP to achieve, making their usage more tactical, as it would become progressively more difficult to get the next one. 2500 for the first, but 3500 for the second, 5000 for the third, 7000 fourth and so on. Prorating the WP requirement based on squad size could work, too, but not necessarily on its own. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Shadow Panther1 Psygod9 10	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:50:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. So Logis are gonna get screwed over again? nil grave est para qui eorum - "Nothing is heavy to those who have Wings"
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1075	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:45:00 - [39] - Quote i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2036	Posted - 2014.06.30 22:58:00 - [40] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Where does it say that? Where does it say that a corporation does not have aligned pilots on standby for Orbital Strike? If they allowed played in EVE that are in that NPC corporation to drop High Security orbitals? sure. But otherwise... nah... Each one of the high security systems that ambushes take place are in certain factions Sovereign space... With police and concord flying around, These entities wouldn't allow corporations to just start dropping orbitals on each other in Secure space without proper declarations of war. If the NPC corporations where technically at war? sure.. The entire orbital in high security space is based off convenience for DUST.. not to fit the Lore of EVE. It doesn't make sense at all for orbitals to be available in High security space without a declaration of war. We aren't asking for Skirmish and Dom to be removed. But orbitals being removed from Ambush where it offers no strategic advantage in progressing the map objectives.. makes sense in every sense of DUST 514's gameplay.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2036	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:01:00 - [41] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1076	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:04:00 - [42] - Quote Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use. your assumng i dont know that. i know there are diff. OB ammo. im just saying it would be cool to have more variants of OB's NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 633	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:05:00 - [43] - Quote Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use. Some people that play PC dont even know what an EMP OB looks like much less pub peasants.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2036	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:07:00 - [44] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use. your assumng i dont know that. i know there are diff. OB ammo. im just saying it would be cool to have more variants of OB's Yes i did make an ass-u-me.. But alot of the variants of orbitals you mentioned are pretty similar if not exactly to the 4 ammo variants. If they did add anything to the Link up part of EVE -> DUST interactions.. I Would rather EVE players be able to buy a tank(As we both use Tranquility database) and call it in the red-line of a side they support. CCP Iceland is always looking for more ISK sinks for EVE online
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1076	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:08:00 - [45] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use. some people dont even know what an EMP OB looks like. ive seen 3 different OB tpyes. stop assuming i havent seen them. i was simply making a suggestion NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2036	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:12:00 - [46] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use. some people dont even know what an EMP OB looks like. ive seen 3 different OB tpyes. stop assuming i havent seen them. i was simply making a suggestion He didnt make an assumption to offend... I Doubt 80% of the people who say they have seen it... Actually have. Because they just simply haven't... You can goto the killboards on EVE and check the DUST mercenaries killed by EVE player orbitals.. And the amount killed by these orbitals in the last 3 months is very tiny.. Let alone with variant orbital Ammo they wouldnt have seen. Most corporations that have hundreds of PC games under their belt have never used an EMP orbital. Kalante and I both know people that still haven't seen them and they PC daily.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1076	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:16:00 - [47] - Quote Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use. some people dont even know what an EMP OB looks like. ive seen 3 different OB tpyes. stop assuming i havent seen them. i was simply making a suggestion He didnt make an assumption to offend... I Doubt 80% of the people who say they have seen it... Actually have. Because they just simply haven't... You can goto the killboards on EVE and check the DUST mercenaries killed by EVE player orbitals.. And the amount killed by these orbitals in the last 3 months is very tiny.. Let alone with variant orbital Ammo they wouldnt have seen. Most corporations that have hundreds of PC games under their belt have never used an EMP orbital. Kalante and I both know people that still haven't seen them and they PC daily. recently ive seen EMP, hybrid s (i think), and another type of OB. NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2036	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:22:00 - [48] - Quote Here is a good EMP Orbital Example used in a wide area for equipment removal for all you people who are Curious about it
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2398	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:22:00 - [49] - Quote Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: Bethhy wrote: knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP You understand player fired orbitals have 4 ammo types one for each race that produce different orbital characteristics? See CCP? The Average player in DUST has never even seen a played dropped orbital... And that is the only thing where EVE and DUST gameplay really mixes.. The central point to making another game in the New Eden Galaxy and it's in game modes 90% of the population doesn't use. some people dont even know what an EMP OB looks like. ive seen 3 different OB tpyes. stop assuming i havent seen them. i was simply making a suggestion He didnt make an assumption to offend... I Doubt 80% of the people who say they have seen it... Actually have. Because they just simply haven't... You can goto the killboards on EVE and check the DUST mercenaries killed by EVE player orbitals.. And the amount killed by these orbitals in the last 3 months is very tiny.. Let alone with variant orbital Ammo they wouldnt have seen. Most corporations that have hundreds of PC games under their belt have never used an EMP orbital. Kalante and I both know people that still haven't seen them and they PC daily. http://youtu.be/pvEhBbqdgnI For those who don't know. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2398	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:23:00 - [50] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Here is a good EMP Orbital Example used in a wide area for equipment removal for all you people who are Curious about it God dam you beat me to it. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given

xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Haus of Triage 195	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:28:00 - [51] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: So I think I've made the likes of this thread like three times now over the past year and a half of my DUST career. It seems a lot of people have agreed but it's never really gone anywhere beyond a thread. Well, we have an awesome Dev now who is very willing to listen to feedback so here we go again. The simple premise is this: OBs are too simple and easy to get. Over the past year more and more ways to earn WP have been added resulting in games that are saturated with IWIN buttons. The concept is cool. It's really cool, but in terms of balance it puts many players in a very precarious position. Initially, the 2500 WP requirement was conceived when squads were limited to 4 players. This was feasible as it meant in a full squad each player needed an average of around 600 - 700 WP to get a single OB. That's 12 - 14 kills for each player. This doesn't include hacking, repping, reviving, or whatever else one may do for points in a game. Fast forward to now, squads are now 6 players and many things that didn't give warpoints do today: scanning, transport, vehicle damage, counter-hacking, destroying equipment... maybe a few others. Consider also that vehicle users are racking up points like never before with the vehicle damage points. I run exclusively solo nowadays as a challenge to get OBs solo. You can watch me on my stream or go check my Past Broadcasts as proof. If it's a map with turrets I'll usually quickly drop a tank and can easily shoot myself up to like 1000+ WP within minutes of the game starting, go around drop some uplinks, switch to slayer fit and within a few minutes it's not all that hard to hit 2500 solo if there's good, consistent opposition. So I can play and with relative easy get one-man orbitals in a good percentage of my games... what the hell is a 6-man squad of protostomping slayers doing? Oh yeah, dropping OBs every few minutes for free kills. The team that's dominating is rewarded by making it even easier for them to dominate. This doesn't really make much sense from a balance standpoint. The OB requirement should easily be doubled to 5,000. With a 6-man squad that's 800-850 WP a person for an OB. That I think would actually make OBs a challenging, rewarding goal that wouldn't really be achievable without a good squad. It would at least cut the pubstomping a bit. On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Ambush is already limited to so few clones. A single OB that has the potential to wipe the enemy team on their spawn wave. It's happened several times to everyone here I'm sure: you and your team just all died in Ambush; you all proceed to respawn in a new location that isn't under cover; BZZZAAAOOWWWW.... OB turns your team to dust. This nonsense needs to stop. You already got rid of tanks (sorta), go one step further making Ambush the ultimate Deathmatch mode by disabling OB support. The most OB's I've gotten with my squad in an ambush was 6. I agree with this. I'm a logi as well so 2500 is really easy to get. 5000 wp for the squad is very acceptable. Good post bro. \|CEO: *Haus of Triage*\| Join HAUST
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 115	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:56:00 - [52] - Quote Yea let's make this game even more boring. Let's keep neutering Dust.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 426	Posted - 2014.07.01 02:44:00 - [53] - Quote 1st: It should use a step-stool method where the amount of WP doubles each time (if that is too much, just adds an extra 2500 each time) 1st OB: 2500 WP 2nd OB: 5000 WP 3rd OB 10000 WP or: 1st OB 2500 WP 2nd OB 5000 WP 3rd OB 7500 WP 4th OB 10000 WP Orbitals should not be something a squad of six should be able to drop 6 or 7 times just to farm kills and boost WP. Once you hit the 3rd OB, it is capped and a squad can not drop any more for the duration of the match. That makes them more tactical. Getting that 3rd orbital at the end of a Dom or Skirm match to take over one of the cannons would be huge. 2nd: should damage everyone including friendlies, then give a -WP penalty for any squad members killed. This would mean the person dropping it needs to actually be cognizant of his surroundings. It will kill all the blueberries (But not give any negative SP) and everyone dies including your own people. This will prevent the all too common "Drop an orbital on "A" as the entire squad rushes through the door to take over objective." 3rd: What if instead of giving all WP to the Squad leader, it is divvied up equally among the squad members. I know when I run squad lead and get 150-500 WP from it, I wish I could give 100 to each member. That way the people who are contributing and helping the squad leader get those OB's get rewarded for them as well. They helped earn it. They should reap some of the rewards. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3595	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:11:00 - [54] - Quote I really like the idea of scaling the orbital to squad size... assuming that's an easy fix. If not, then scaling it up to 3750 or whatever was the equivalent for 2 more people. Or round it to 4000, whatever. 6000 is gonna make it too tough on the noobs, imo. One thing that does 100% no doubt need to change though is the crazy potential for WP wh0ring off the OB. Nobody should be getting vehicle assist kills or guardian points (this is coming from a logI) off of them, no debate. You shouldn't be able to earn another OB from using one, but currently you can, with some preplanning. As for WP in general, I don't see a big problem with taking them away completely either, but I'd argue for a tweak instead: a) Intel assist points, I do think you can make a good argument that these materially contribute to the effectiveness of the strike, unlike the vehicle assist or guardian points, which are just pure gaming of the system. b)Kills, maybe cut them in half so you only get 25wp for an OB kill? I feel like they should be rewarded a little. I'm down with taking them out of ambush too, but if you increase the WP requirement I feel like it's suddenly not as big a problem anymore. How many squads are going to routinely pull 8000WP in a 50 clone ambush? Not that many, especially if you make the other changes about WP gain. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Funkmaster Whale Whale Farm 2348	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:36:00 - [55] - Quote Some of the best ideas I've seen so far were to make orbitals requirements step functions as well as introducing the different types of orbitals into public matches. I'm a big proponent for those. I also really wanna stress the OBs in Ambush point. Does anyone else agree that OBs should be taken out of Ambush entirely? Follow me on Twitch.tv!
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 2009	Posted - 2014.07.01 03:46:00 - [56] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Some of the best ideas I've seen so far were to make orbitals requirements step functions and introducing the different types of orbitals into public matches. I'm a big proponent for those. I also really wanna stress the OBs in Ambush point. Does anyone else agree that OBs should be taken out of Ambush entirely? How you gonna clear those rooftop campers The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 492	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:11:00 - [57] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i also think that we should have more than one type of orbital when we have one ready. instead of just having the standard OB, why not add in some more variants of OB for different situations. like -a directional carpet bomb OB -a circular OB that starts as a complete circle and goes inward on each shot -an OB that fires one shot huge shot with a big radius, but has triple the damage and takes 5 sec.s to prepare -an OB that has double the range, but has the weakest amount of dmg it would be cool to have these implemented since we only get one OB per X amount of WP There are multiple types of orbital strikes in pc, based on what ships eve side have loaded ammunition. It would be nice to have emp, precision laser, normal plus maybe a few other strikes available in pubs for tactical variety. Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 286	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:24:00 - [58] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Part of me would like friendly fire enabled specifically for orbitals. It makes for rather lame tactics, where you just drop an orbital on your own head, and boom rush to objective as its falling. Lame. I'd also say that orbitals should never reward you. Ever. Because the orbital IS THE REWARD. Rich get richer mechanics are lame. And a reward rewarding you with more rewards is exactly that: Lame. Anyway, orbitals are terribly lame. A rework to make these lame things not-lame would be a welcome alteration to this game. THIS Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 286	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:25:00 - [59] - Quote Atiim wrote: I'm just going to paste these posts that I made from a while back: Atiim wrote: I have a better idea. First, increase the WP required for a Warbarge Strike. These things should be used as "game changers" as opposed to a win button used to exacerbate stomping, especially when you consider how a single Warbarge Strike can annihilate an entire team. The requirements for one are 2500WP simply because squads used to only have 4 people, and there weren't nearly as many ways to earn WP as we have now. I do agree with removing the ability to gain WP earned from the Warbarge. The average strike gets about 10 kills, which leads to about 500WP. If you have the squad members repair the leader that squad can earn up to 2250WP from the Guardian action, and when you have everyone scan the area before dropping the Warbarge, the squad can earn 750WP from Intel Kill Assists. That alone is 3575WP, which can grant a squad yet another Warbarge Strike and still leave them with a spare 1075WP (that's half of the WP required for another Warbarge Strike mind you). However, I do believe there should be a small reward for using the Warbarge Strike, as you are making a contribution to the team by using one. I think 100-150WP for Warbarge Deployment would seem fair. Atiim wrote: Awry Barux wrote: [...] I'd say 7200 WP would be best. That way every member of the squad would have to make at least 1200 WP to get one. -HAND And THIS Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 286	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:27:00 - [60] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Honestly WB strikes shouldn't net the squad anything. The squad leader shouldn't even get kills off of it, let alone points. All it is is pushing a button on a map. The point of the WB is to help your team, not farm kills. And THIS Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1

bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 286	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:37:00 - [61] - Quote The Eristic wrote: Outright doubling it will just screw over smaller squads, those containing new or less hardcore players and those containing players who perform roles that don't necessarily earn tons of WP, while making no real difference to stacked proto, vehicle and farming squads. Could make it so that each successive orbital requires x amount or % more WP to achieve, making their usage more tactical, as it would become progressively more difficult to get the next one. 2500 for the first, but 3500 for the second, 5000 for the third, 7000 fourth and so on. Prorating the WP requirement based on squad size could work, too, but not necessarily on its own. This is a good idea. Since one well placed OB can earn 500-1000 points by itself, have each successive OB require more points. The first one having a slight raise to 3000, then the next one at 4000, then 5000, etc... Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 286	Posted - 2014.07.01 04:43:00 - [62] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: 1st: It should use a step-stool method where the amount of WP doubles each time (if that is too much, just adds an extra 2500 each time) 1st OB: 2500 WP 2nd OB: 5000 WP 3rd OB 10000 WP or: 1st OB 2500 WP 2nd OB 5000 WP 3rd OB 7500 WP 4th OB 10000 WP Orbitals should not be something a squad of six should be able to drop 6 or 7 times just to farm kills and boost WP. Once you hit the 3rd OB, it is capped and a squad can not drop any more for the duration of the match. That makes them more tactical. Getting that 3rd orbital at the end of a Dom or Skirm match to take over one of the cannons would be huge. 2nd: should damage everyone including friendlies, then give a -WP penalty for any squad members killed. This would mean the person dropping it needs to actually be cognizant of his surroundings. It will kill all the blueberries (But not give any negative SP) and everyone dies including your own people. This will prevent the all too common "Drop an orbital on "A" as the entire squad rushes through the door to take over objective." 3rd: What if instead of giving all WP to the Squad leader, it is divvied up equally among the squad members. I know when I run squad lead and get 150-500 WP from it, I wish I could give 100 to each member. That way the people who are contributing and helping the squad leader get those OB's get rewarded for them as well. They helped earn it. They should reap some of the rewards. And THIS Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
jerrmy12 kahoalii New Age Empire. 1589	Posted - 2014.07.01 05:02:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. And lower the radius slightly. Closed beta vet. If bo burnham was on my little pony: friendship is magic
QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 35	Posted - 2014.07.01 06:14:00 - [64] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: QRT30 wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. here are proofs from this month games (only logis) 3 man sqd and 4 man sqd Hopefully for redberries we are small corp and we play very rare in full sqd. IMHO 5000 WP for OB is ok. I'm curious, how did your whole squad get such high WP given you don't have many kills (except Ardanis in the second game)? Are you all tanking/logi-ing, or what? We played as a true logi (kill only when defence, only Ardanis was heavy) and keep blueberries alive as much as possible nanohives, reptools, nanite - repeat . (see reds kills, first 10 kills almost 150 clones) QRT30 - all Caldari lvl 5, core maxed QRT300 - Amarr heavy/commando
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 365	Posted - 2014.07.01 08:03:00 - [65] - Quote I would agree with the doubling of warpoints to get a OB but one thing would go wrong. A PC team with EVE support would have a massive advantage. I would like that if you do this that you think about making the EVE OB in PC take maybe 5 minutes instead of every 3 minutes. Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *Defender of Broman

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3471	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:19:00 - [66] - Quote Awarding kills to squad leader only is not cool, awarding wp for OB kills is not cool either, OB in Ambush is also not cool, imho. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

puppy souls ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:26:00 - [67] - Quote I think the best way would be to set an amount of squad leader commotion points. If you had to have 500 in squad leader commotion, this would encourage squads to work together better. It would also encourage the use of the squad commands more. A good squad that doesn't stick together and work as a team is less likely to get an OB no matter how many points they get. Or 1000 in commotion.
The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels 64	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:29:00 - [68] - Quote Strange this... If iwas leading a team in ambush lore style 1 how did i get there? Space ship, 2 i'd have my ship on full alert status for orbital bombardment Millions of isks worth of ships in space yet theres nothing quite like a face to face
poison Diego BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 410	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:36:00 - [69] - Quote Yes OBs are way to easy to get. Would be nice to increase the points you need to 4000-5000 WP. Ambush is terrible as it is right now. The sq lead getting 3 OBs per Ambus OMS is really out of space ridiculous.
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:55:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Awarding kills to squad leader only is not cool, awarding wp for OB kills is not cool either, OB in Ambush is also not cool, imho. Is it possible to somehow require an escalating amount of WP for OB's. I.E. First is 3000, second then requires an additional 6000, Third an additional 9000 and so forth? So you don't have to be an insane protosquad to get one, but to get two is super hard and three is really crazy.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6127	Posted - 2014.07.01 10:56:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Awarding kills to squad leader only is not cool, awarding wp for OB kills is not cool either, OB in Ambush is also not cool, imho. If you ask me, War Points affecting anything are a terrible idea to begin with. All it does is sets an unnecessary precedence that "moar WP = good", which is the truth when it comes to end-of-match payouts and orbital strikes... Hence why we have players saying things like "Heavies are WP starved". Imo, it's an completely unnecessary and unwarranted cog in the overall balance spectrum especially when some roles are oriented toward WP accrual (logistics) and others aren't (commandos). Not saying that WP can't be a factor, but it being the -only- factor in anything is shoddy. EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the free WP that are dished out for killing installations - something we're trying to rectify by making installations tougher.. Now if it were just points and the points didn't mean anything but e-peen extension... It'd be a different story... Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Zion Shad ZionTCD Top Men. 2278	Posted - 2014.07.01 11:04:00 - [72] - Quote Great topic I love it! Plus 1 and Bumps CPM1 Hopeful

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3473	Posted - 2014.07.01 11:25:00 - [73] - Quote I do believe WP are an essential part of explaining to a new player that there are multiple ways of supporting the team to win the battle, than just killing. And even now I still feel like I accomplished something when I see WP's tick in on an armor rep hive, or a good droplink placement. Positive reinforcement. "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6128	Posted - 2014.07.01 11:42:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I do believe WP are an essential part of explaining to a new player that there are multiple ways of supporting the team to win the battle, than just killing. And even now I still feel like I accomplished something when I see WP's tick in on an armor rep hive, or a good droplink placement. Positive reinforcement. "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" Sure, I can understand that full and well. There are a lot of games that offer this sort of encouragement through supporting their team; then again, those points are there -for- that positive reinforcement, rather than a metaphorical currency for a weapon. You can reduce the frequency by increasing the WP cost but inevitably that's not going to solve the problem of the orbital strike being earned as a tool for winners to keep winning. That sort of knowledge in the back of the players mind, it's not exactly rocket science to understand why equipment spam ever became a thing. Edit: Perhaps that's generalizing player behavior - but to be honest, while it does positively encourage some behavior, it's two sides of the same coin. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Severus Smith Caldari State 546	Posted - 2014.07.01 17:17:00 - [75] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I do believe WP are an essential part of explaining to a new player that there are multiple ways of supporting the team to win the battle, than just killing. And even now I still feel like I accomplished something when I see WP's tick in on an armor rep hive, or a good droplink placement. Positive reinforcement. "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" Sure, I can understand that full and well. There are a lot of games that offer this sort of encouragement through supporting their team; then again, those points are there -for- that positive reinforcement, rather than a metaphorical currency for a weapon. You can reduce the frequency by increasing the WP cost but inevitably that's not going to solve the problem of the orbital strike being earned as a tool for winners to keep winning. That sort of knowledge in the back of the players mind, it's not exactly rocket science to understand why equipment spam ever became a thing. Edit: Perhaps that's generalizing player behavior - but to be honest, while it does positively encourage some behavior, it's two sides of the same coin. Agreed. Decouple OBs from War Points. Make it so that every merc can only request a Warbarge Strike once every few hours or something and maybe have it cost 50,000 ISK. That way, you can use it when the match is close as a tactical strike. Not as an "I win" button for the winning team to decimate the losing team even more. Orbital Strikes, from EVE players, are available whenever and have no cost or cooldown. [Crazy idea] Or, why not make OB's purchasable items? Kind of like a service / favor that I can call in anytime. I sometimes earn them at the end of the winning match (with my salvage) as a reward. Or I can spend LP to buy them from the different Empires. Put a cooldown between requests so I can't spam it, but now I can now call it in the same way I call in a HAV or Dropship from the OMS menu and it has nothing to do with WPs. This makes them far more tactical, decouples them from WPs, incentives winning matches more, and makes LP even more desirable.
Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10094	Posted - 2014.07.01 17:42:00 - [76] - Quote I agree with the above idea. Though each match would need to have a quota on how many strikes could be used per match, or else you run the risk of players stockpiling their available strikes and dumping them all in one match. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 319	Posted - 2014.07.01 18:12:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Awarding kills to squad leader only is not cool, awarding wp for OB kills is not cool either, OB in Ambush is also not cool, imho. Awarding passengers that is doing nothing with WP for gunner kills is not cool as well. Nosum Hseebnrido
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 177	Posted - 2014.07.01 18:18:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. Agree. I also liked the suggestion that OB's not be allowed in pure ambush. OBs make sense for Ambush OMS, but not pure ambush.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15676	Posted - 2014.07.02 02:03:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I do believe WP are an essential part of explaining to a new player that there are multiple ways of supporting the team to win the battle, than just killing. And even now I still feel like I accomplished something when I see WP's tick in on an armor rep hive, or a good droplink placement. Positive reinforcement. "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" I wonder if we can get an orbital scan instead :P CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
danthrax martin Butcher's Nails 88	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:06:00 - [80] - Quote Yeah... Make them pay more. It used to be a compliment to be OB'd. Now its like a mathematical blah blah blah . I've gotten sick of being milked for them with no benefit to me. I wanna fight to win, clone vs. clone and such... I'd make them vanish if I could. Fatty Fat Fat gk.0 - HMG / Duvolle Noob DS Ferryman

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6133	Posted - 2014.07.02 03:38:00 - [81] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I do believe WP are an essential part of explaining to a new player that there are multiple ways of supporting the team to win the battle, than just killing. And even now I still feel like I accomplished something when I see WP's tick in on an armor rep hive, or a good droplink placement. Positive reinforcement. "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" I wonder if we can get an orbital scan instead :P Been wanting that since closed beta... Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2155	Posted - 2014.07.02 07:38:00 - [82] - Quote 1. Increase matches to 18 player teams (or 24 ) 2. Have 3 (or 4 with 24 players) pre-made squads within each match with a squad leader in each squad. These squads are only for a single match and can't be abandoned by any player (you can move between squads though) 3. Have OBs on a x minute timer 4. ????? 5. Profit! Or alternatively do the above, but also introduce the platoon leader (or other name) role for 1 player on each team. Only the platoon leader can call in OBs every x minutes. Done. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 869	Posted - 2014.07.02 08:07:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. "just have one logi"? That "one logi" has to make a decision to put away their weapon and be defenseless while repping or to defend themselves. Rep tools aren't the problem,Risk Vs Reward wise the WP cooldown needs to be removed if the WP cost is going to double. The problem is hives + uplinks,0 risk,0 cooldown,infinite WP. This should be reversed seeing as the rep tool leaves you defenseless.
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 11	Posted - 2014.07.02 11:52:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I do believe WP are an essential part of explaining to a new player that there are multiple ways of supporting the team to win the battle, than just killing. And even now I still feel like I accomplished something when I see WP's tick in on an armor rep hive, or a good droplink placement. Positive reinforcement. "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" "You helped the team, good job +25WP" Compared to recon scout: Death Death Death Death Light up the entire team with a scan that gets a grand total 0 points of OB "Why scout no has kills!!!" Switch to logicloop scout and uplink/nanite hoar into top 6 places. How the hell do people actually use scanners and profit???


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