DUST Search - Rattati, Let's talk about OBs...

Atiim wrote:

I have a better idea.

First, increase the WP required for a Warbarge Strike. These things should be used as "game changers" as opposed to a win button used to exacerbate stomping, especially when you consider how a single Warbarge Strike can annihilate an entire team.

The requirements for one are 2500WP simply because squads used to only have 4 people, and there weren't nearly as many ways to earn WP as we have now.

I do agree with removing the ability to gain WP earned from the Warbarge. The average strike gets about 10 kills, which leads to about 500WP. If you have the squad members repair the leader that squad can earn up to 2250WP from the Guardian action, and when you have everyone scan the area before dropping the Warbarge, the squad can earn 750WP from Intel Kill Assists.

That alone is 3575WP, which can grant a squad yet another Warbarge Strike and still leave them with a spare 1075WP (that's half of the WP required for another Warbarge Strike mind you).

However, I do believe there should be a small reward for using the Warbarge Strike, as you are making a contribution to the team by using one. I think 100-150WP for Warbarge Deployment would seem fair.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Funkmaster Whale Whale Farm 2321	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:08:00 - [1] - Quote So I think I've made the likes of this thread like three times now over the past year and a half of my DUST career. It seems a lot of people have agreed but it's never really gone anywhere beyond a thread. Well, we have an awesome Dev now who is very willing to listen to feedback so here we go again. The simple premise is this: OBs are too simple and easy to get. Over the past year more and more ways to earn WP have been added resulting in games that are saturated with IWIN buttons. The concept is cool. It's really cool, but in terms of balance it puts many players in a very precarious position. Initially, the 2500 WP requirement was conceived when squads were limited to 4 players. This was feasible as it meant in a full squad each player needed an average of around 600 - 700 WP to get a single OB. That's 12 - 14 kills for each player. This doesn't include hacking, repping, reviving, or whatever else one may do for points in a game. Fast forward to now, squads are now 6 players and many things that didn't give warpoints do today: scanning, transport, vehicle damage, counter-hacking, destroying equipment... maybe a few others. Consider also that vehicle users are racking up points like never before with the vehicle damage points. I run exclusively solo nowadays as a challenge to get OBs solo. You can watch me on my stream or go check my Past Broadcasts as proof. If it's a map with turrets I'll usually quickly drop a tank and can easily shoot myself up to like 1000+ WP within minutes of the game starting, go around drop some uplinks, switch to slayer fit and within a few minutes it's not all that hard to hit 2500 solo if there's good, consistent opposition. So I can play and with relative easy get one-man orbitals in a good percentage of my games... what the hell is a 6-man squad of protostomping slayers doing? Oh yeah, dropping OBs every few minutes for free kills. The team that's dominating is rewarded by making it even easier for them to dominate. This doesn't really make much sense from a balance standpoint. The OB requirement should easily be doubled to 5,000. With a 6-man squad that's 800-850 WP a person for an OB. That I think would actually make OBs a challenging, rewarding goal that wouldn't really be achievable without a good squad. It would at least cut the pubstomping a bit. On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Ambush is already limited to so few clones. A single OB that has the potential to wipe the enemy team on their spawn wave. It's happened several times to everyone here I'm sure: you and your team just all died in Ambush; you all proceed to respawn in a new location that isn't under cover; BZZZAAAOOWWWW.... OB turns your team to dust. This nonsense needs to stop. You already got rid of tanks (sorta), go one step further making Ambush the ultimate Deathmatch mode by disabling OB support. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 4082	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:11:00 - [2] - Quote Yup. +1 PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Mortedeamor NoGameNoLife 1725	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:51:00 - [3] - Quote yeah i have actually pulled 3 obs by myself...ccp raise it to something reasonable like 4 k wp or 5 k wp..i would even be up for 6 k wp making each person in the squad have to get over 1 k to get one
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11348	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:53:00 - [4] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Where does it say that? Where does it say that a corporation does not have aligned pilots on standby for Orbital Strike? " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
Forlorn Destrier 2586	Posted - 2014.06.30 01:56:00 - [5] - Quote Agreed - going 6/9 and earning 3000 WP solo earlier today was ridiculous. If I can easily make that many WP's and call my own OB, something needs to be done to make them less common. Raising the WP required seems a good idea. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 625	Posted - 2014.06.30 02:06:00 - [6] - Quote I think it should work like this. 3 or less Squad Members- 2,500 4 or more Squad Members- 5,000 Also WP from dropping an OB should either not go for the next OB or only give you half of the WP. EX: Kill with OB is worth 25 instead of 50 WP. Don't you shiver PS News VIZZZIAM
Forlorn Destrier 2586	Posted - 2014.06.30 02:10:00 - [7] - Quote I suspect this change may require a client fix though - not a server one. Not sure. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3892	Posted - 2014.06.30 02:13:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Where does it say that? Where does it say that a corporation does not have aligned pilots on standby for Orbital Strike? It's a warbarge strike, and ambush does not seem to have a warbarge. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
The Eristic Dust 90210 498	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:33:00 - [9] - Quote Pub OBs should be pure EMP, a giant flux bombardment that takes out enemy shields and destroys any equipment caught in the blast radius, imo. The reward should be more of a support tool, rather than outright killing (especially in a TDM mode like Ambush), and makes using an OB to farm up another OB more difficult, as it requires your team to actually push where it was dropped and finish off the wounded, giving the squad leader +25s instead of +50s. Would help with assaulting entrenched and/or covered opponents, as well, since flux deals damage through walls. FW and PC can still be whatever your pilots bring to the party. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11361	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:39:00 - [10] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: True Adamance wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: On another note, I strongly believe that OB support should be disabled in Ambush. It makes absolutely no sense that a team would get an orbital considering there is no warbarge to drop the strike (as is the lore). Where does it say that? Where does it say that a corporation does not have aligned pilots on standby for Orbital Strike? It's a warbarge strike, and ambush does not seem to have a warbarge. You cannot see a warbarge from the ground....... its in Orbit........ if you are talking no warbarge time between deployment and spawn.....you don't often get that for any public match. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."

OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 99	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:49:00 - [11] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: scanning You'd get more from a compact hive than a proto scanner. Quote: vehicle users are racking up points like never before with the vehicle damage points. Yeah, VEHICLE USERS. Because Gunnlogis don't give you WP when you damage their shields, and AV rarely gets under them. Quote: I'll usually quickly drop a tank and can easily shoot myself up to like 1000+ WP within minutes of the game starting, go around drop some uplinks, switch to slayer fit and within a few minutes it's not all that hard to hit 2500 solo if there's good, consistent opposition. Better off with Logi. I used to spawn Sicas and do the same thing but not only did it get boring, but when I became a heavy even that out-classed it for WP. The Logi definitely doesn't even have to bother blowing up turrets first. He's better off setting up droplinks. Quote: It's happened several times to everyone here I'm sure: you and your team just all died in Ambush; you all proceed to respawn in a new location that isn't under cover; BZZZAAAOOWWWW.... OB turns your team to dust. I can vouch for this. A lot of what you're saying is true and you make valid points. Literally all you have to do to exploit this is sit in the OB screen, wait for the entire crowd of blueberries your team just slaughtered to respawn, and in some maps they will stick out like sore thumbs because they look like dark black ants crawling in the sand. Boom, a 16 kill orbital. If the community decides to keep vehicles in OMS, this is definitely the way to go because it prevents cheap spawn kills from dropping OBs on the Bolas in a match where there are only 2 vehicles allowed in the first place.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 987	Posted - 2014.06.30 03:58:00 - [12] - Quote Part of me would like friendly fire enabled specifically for orbitals. It makes for rather lame tactics, where you just drop an orbital on your own head, and boom rush to objective as its falling. Lame. I'd also say that orbitals should never reward you. Ever. Because the orbital IS THE REWARD. Rich get richer mechanics are lame. And a reward rewarding you with more rewards is exactly that: Lame. Anyway, orbitals are terribly lame. A rework to make these lame things not-lame would be a welcome alteration to this game. I am a minotaur.
Atiim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 10012	Posted - 2014.06.30 04:03:00 - [13] - Quote I'm just going to paste these posts that I made from a while back: Atiim wrote: I have a better idea. First, increase the WP required for a Warbarge Strike. These things should be used as "game changers" as opposed to a win button used to exacerbate stomping, especially when you consider how a single Warbarge Strike can annihilate an entire team. The requirements for one are 2500WP simply because squads used to only have 4 people, and there weren't nearly as many ways to earn WP as we have now. I do agree with removing the ability to gain WP earned from the Warbarge. The average strike gets about 10 kills, which leads to about 500WP. If you have the squad members repair the leader that squad can earn up to 2250WP from the Guardian action, and when you have everyone scan the area before dropping the Warbarge, the squad can earn 750WP from Intel Kill Assists. That alone is 3575WP, which can grant a squad yet another Warbarge Strike and still leave them with a spare 1075WP (that's half of the WP required for another Warbarge Strike mind you). However, I do believe there should be a small reward for using the Warbarge Strike, as you are making a contribution to the team by using one. I think 100-150WP for Warbarge Deployment would seem fair. Atiim wrote: Awry Barux wrote: [...] I'd say 7200 WP would be best. That way every member of the squad would have to make at least 1200 WP to get one. -HAND Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Atiim Kinsho Swords Caldari State 10012	Posted - 2014.06.30 04:07:00 - [14] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Yeah, VEHICLE USERS. Because Gunnlogis don't give you WP when you damage their shields, and AV rarely gets under them. What AV Weapon are you using? Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Arcturis Vanguard Red Star. EoN. 141	Posted - 2014.06.30 05:49:00 - [15] - Quote I'm in full agreement that 2,500 wp is far to easily achieved for an orbital. It needs to be doubled if not tripled to drop an orbital. Drop ship orbital are the best for full sad base play. Defend order on drop ship, sl drops ob and jumps in drop ship. Everyone received +42 vehicle kill assist, commission off assists, points for kills, points for equipment and more then likely another orbital to terrorize your opponent. Rinse and repeat. Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1862	Posted - 2014.06.30 06:01:00 - [16] - Quote Honestly WB strikes shouldn't net the squad anything. The squad leader shouldn't even get kills off of it, let alone points. All it is is pushing a button on a map. The point of the WB is to help your team, not farm kills. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Schecter 666 Minmatar Republic 82	Posted - 2014.06.30 11:54:00 - [17] - Quote Obs are a cheap way for bad players to get cheap and easy kills. I'm sick of seeing people clear an entire objective or win a game of ambush just through pushing x They have no place in this game and should be removed from all game modes. I an sick of spawning and dying 3 times in a row to obs from the same person! All they do is Mark a logi get them to repair them resupply them and use hives hide around a corner to take damage farm orbital and repeat! Ccp you really do need to stop letting teams who are winning win even more: if a team is crushing you it's very demoralizing to then get OB'd by them

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3424	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:14:00 - [18] - Quote I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

I-Shayz-I I----------I 3838	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:31:00 - [19] - Quote In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 8	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:49:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. It should be almost impossible for a heavy/squad that's been trapped to escape before the bomb goes off, but CCP liked killing that. id like to know where all the MMO here is going because im not a fan of shooters so if yall take all the mmo youve removed from dust and just put it in another game i guess ill play it instead with a bad taste in my mouth

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 576	Posted - 2014.06.30 12:56:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I couldn't agree more, will discuss internally. Would be up for doubling it even. 6 man squads should have to work hard for it, not just have one logi, and it should be almost impossible to solo. To be honest, rewarding a squad for war points alone Has always been the reason that people farm for OBs. If WPs mattered but were not the primary criteria then we'd be better off. Perhaps a metric for determining contribution of effort. Perhaps only WPs with regards to Objectives are factored in: so hacking Null Cannons becomes important, but also a lesser value for CRUs (as important strategic locations) and Depots (less than CRUs), with Installations being the lowest value. At that point, WP farming still has an effect on your payout but won't net you an OB. Along with that alteration, thou could move to a timer based OB system like other folks have suggested in other threads: - based on MCC damage and awarded to the 'best' squad (most objective WP as above) since the last OB was awarded - based solely on time like in FW (or is it just EVE OB timed, with the 'barge on WP? I forget...)/PC, where the 'best' squad gets it ...with a system to stop one squad getting all of them. What do you think Rattati?
QRT30 Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN 34	Posted - 2014.06.30 13:10:00 - [22] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. here are proofs from this month games (only logis) 3 man sqd and 4 man sqd Hopefully for redberries we are small corp and we play very rare in full sqd. IMHO 5000 WP for OB is ok. QRT30 - all Caldari lvl 5, core maxed QRT300 - Amarr heavy/commando
Fremder V1 Armed And Aimless 14	Posted - 2014.06.30 13:49:00 - [23] - Quote While i agree that it is quite easy to get orbitals right now, and wouldn't mind an ambush without them, they do have some positives asspects too, which i didn't saw mentioned in this thread yet... Besides the simple fact that dropping orbitals can be fun, they also help to motivate squad members which usually don't get much points of their own. It gives them rightfully the feeling that they still contribute to the squad/team. Increasing the required WP for orbitals simultaneously decreases this factor. Make it high enough, and new player are completly shut out of that game mechanic. They will be less and less welcomend in squads, and most won't get a chance to drop an orbital of their own for a long time.
Bright Steel Tears Of Wars 21	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:04:00 - [24] - Quote I think it should be timed in between too. So that you don't get those back to back orbitals over the CRU The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 890	Posted - 2014.06.30 14:20:00 - [25] - Quote What about removing war barge strikes from PC matches? Dust/Eve transfers
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1400	Posted - 2014.06.30 15:34:00 - [26] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. I had a game similar to this earlier today leading a Rainbow tanker+slayer squad. My first OB was good (five kills or so) but after that they were coming so quickly I was pretty much dropping them at random, including three in the enemy redline for a total of zero kills (because I'm a massive scrub ). The moral of the story is: 1. It's too easy to get OBs 2. I shouldn't be allowed to be squad leader
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1400	Posted - 2014.06.30 15:42:00 - [27] - Quote QRT30 wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. here are proofs from this month games (only logis) 3 man sqd and 4 man sqd Hopefully for redberries we are small corp and we play very rare in full sqd. IMHO 5000 WP for OB is ok. I'm curious, how did your whole squad get such high WP given you don't have many kills (except Ardanis in the second game)? Are you all tanking/logi-ing, or what?
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 265	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:17:00 - [28] - Quote +1 Though I support a jump to 4k for OB first see how it pans out then go to 5k if it is obvious that it needs adjustment or 4.5k, but yes in some matches my squad has gotten over 4+ OBs launched, we had more OBs just the enemy got wise and spread out more so not to be vaporized.
MINA Longstrike 950	Posted - 2014.06.30 16:48:00 - [29] - Quote All this would change is that it would place orbitals out of the reach of all but full squads, which were already earning them anyways due to high logi WP gain and abuse of defend orders. Simply put, warpoints required for an orbital should scale to the number of people in the squad, and the squad-order system needs a rework. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2393	Posted - 2014.06.30 17:27:00 - [30] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: In squads where you have 3 or more good logistics players and/or a tanker...you can get orbitals every minute or two. Say the tanker gst 5k, and all logistics get about 2500-3500 5000 3500 3000 2500 2200 2000 That's 18200, or 7 orbitals for one squad. Just silly. Totally unrealistic Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given



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