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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 605	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:10:00 - [1] - Quote More specifically, HMG heavies. As it stands right now, there really are no counters outside of-proto min scout 5 with ishnoks (minimum 5 mil SP investment), Caldari scout with a shotgun (minimum 3.5 mil SP investment), boundless remotes (2 mil SP investment), or another heavy With scouts, at least if the newbie sees the scout, they can kill it easily enough, but with an HMG heavy, even if the newb shoots first and hits all head shots, the heavy can just turn and kill the poor unfortunate newb in under a second with an HMG, before the newb can kill the heavy Heavies need to have some form of a balancing factor, considering they require the least amount of tactical skill to run, but have the highest amount of reward. Heavy suits themselves do not need much of a nerf, if any. The real problem is the heavy machine gun in combination with the highest HP suit in the game that can turn at the same speed as a triple kincatted minja. Suggested nerfs for the heavy are a reduction in the range of the HMG in addition to a longer time to "focus" the death ray, as well as greatly increased overheat to reward skilled shooting versus "I'm going to spin in a circle and hold down R1 and kill everything around me". Disclaimer: I have begun running an HMG heavy, and it is BEYOND easy mode. It is literally unkillable except to people with better HMG's and better heavies if you run it like a scout (read: use tactics to gain an advantage), so take it as you will "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 182	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:17:00 - [2] - Quote new players can skill into heavies as well.... and as you said its easy mode... so new players should do fine.
Buwaro Draemon WarRavens Final Resolution. 217	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:24:00 - [3] - Quote I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. If you are a scout and you only use EWAR then you have my salutes o7 END THE TYRANNY OF BRINK TANKED SCOUTS
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11127	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:27:00 - [4] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. Thats the kind of attitude that gets me 1 out of every 3 of my kills. Scouts are idiots who think pseudo invisibility makes them clever. (Disclaimer this is intended to be incendiary, but by not means demean the noble rat-scout class....) " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 607	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:29:00 - [5] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: new players can skill into heavies as well.... and as you said its easy mode... so new players should do fine. Thats the problem though: most new players see "Assault suit" and think that they want to skill into it, do so, then get raped by the HMG once they graduate and never play again. Trust me, the first suit i skilled into was amarr assault, and then callogi because it was the most prevalent, then the min scout cause i wanted to knife people. "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3676	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:30:00 - [6] - Quote Heavies are fine. I will spam your face with aurum proto.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2906	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:30:00 - [7] - Quote Ok firstly I agree with the turn speed, Heavy Dropsuits should have slower turn rate. We used to have it up until 1.4 I think when it was removed in favour of giving all suits the same uniform rotation speed. However other than that there is no requirement for any further nerfs to either the weapon or the dropsuit. You have to remember the HMG is a close quarters breaching weapon and long range suppression weapon. At further than 25m it just doesn't have the oomph to kill a man. At least not without crouching and aiming DS. All 4 Assault Rifles can drastically out range, even a scrambler or bolt pistol can out range, laser rifles are also effective. Finally the Mass Driver is also incredibly powerful against heavies, in fact from my own personal experience, it performs better against heavies than lighter suits. What's ruining it for new players is they come in expecting to play COD, where everyone is 3-4 shotting each other at 10m with weapons that are IRL designed to be used at +250m. They are ruining around complexes like headless chickens and coming face to face with a heavy and expect tombe able to kill at 10m with a blaster rifle, it's not the HMG that's the problem it's the ingrained ways of playing FPS's in blueberries that is the problem. My suit's a bit rusty, but that could just as easily be me! Monkey Mac - Swinging from the Rooftops Forum Warrior Lvl2
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 607	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:31:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. Thats the kind of attitude that gets me 1 out of every 3 of my kills. Scouts are idiots who think pseudo invisibility makes them clever. (Disclaimer this is intended to be incendiary, but by not means demean the noble rat-scout class....) The only time is use a cloak is to run away or out in the open on a bright map...its literally the most flimsy excuse for invisibility that I've seen... "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 98	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:32:00 - [9] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: new players can skill into heavies as well.... and as you said its easy mode... so new players should do fine. Thats the problem though: most new players see "Assault suit" and think that they want to skill into it, do so, then get raped by the HMG once they graduate and never play again. Trust me, the first suit i skilled into was amarr assault, and then callogi because it was the most prevalent, then the min scout cause i wanted to knife people. So we should nerf it because of idiots and newbs?. Also, those are good suits so you must be bad. Service with a smile
DEATH THE KlD Harem. King 10	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:32:00 - [10] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. I've complained and I use assault so scouts aren't the only ones. But you know some people actually rush and push objectives personally killing scouts is easy with my assault.

RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 98	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:33:00 - [11] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: True Adamance wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. Thats the kind of attitude that gets me 1 out of every 3 of my kills. Scouts are idiots who think pseudo invisibility makes them clever. (Disclaimer this is intended to be incendiary, but by not means demean the noble rat-scout class....) The only time is use a cloak is to run away or out in the open on a bright map...its literally the most flimsy excuse for invisibility that I've seen... You are one of the most flimsy excuses for a player that I have seen. Service with a smile
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 607	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:34:00 - [12] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: True Adamance wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. Thats the kind of attitude that gets me 1 out of every 3 of my kills. Scouts are idiots who think pseudo invisibility makes them clever. (Disclaimer this is intended to be incendiary, but by not means demean the noble rat-scout class....) The only time is use a cloak is to run away or out in the open on a bright map...its literally the most flimsy excuse for invisibility that I've seen... You are one of the most flimsy excuses for a player that I have seen. And thats the most flimsy excuse of a troll Ive ever seen. "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
TEBOW BAGGINS Defenders of the Helghast Dream Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1053	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:38:00 - [13] - Quote yea wasn't it scouts who ruined the game for new players? or dropships? or tanks? does it really matter? the game is going PC anyway, there will be new EVE noobs to whine about old stuff there. your worrying about a sinking ship not being appealing to noob ruined the forums for the day. AKA Zirzo Valcyn
Thurak1 Psygod9 785	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:12:00 - [14] - Quote Really anyone that can't kill a heavy is just doing it wrong. Its really easy get a weapon with better range and engage outside of the hmg's optimal range. Heavies dont run fast so you should easily be able to keep outside their optimal and inside your optimal. Its not hard but if your stupid and you charge headlong into a heavy you will be chewed up and spit out.
Tectonic Fusion 1770	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:28:00 - [15] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: True Adamance wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. Thats the kind of attitude that gets me 1 out of every 3 of my kills. Scouts are idiots who think pseudo invisibility makes them clever. (Disclaimer this is intended to be incendiary, but by not means demean the noble rat-scout class....) The only time is use a cloak is to run away or out in the open on a bright map...its literally the most flimsy excuse for invisibility that I've seen... True, but there is those moments when there are a bunch of heavys coming and you turn on your cloak to hide because they can't scan y-YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED. Oh ****...
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1490	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:28:00 - [16] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: More specifically, HMG heavies. As it stands right now, there really are no counters outside of-proto min scout 5 with ishnoks (minimum 5 mil SP investment), Caldari scout with a shotgun (minimum 3.5 mil SP investment), boundless remotes (2 mil SP investment), or another heavy With scouts, at least if the newbie sees the scout, they can kill it easily enough, but with an HMG heavy, even if the newb shoots first and hits all head shots, the heavy can just turn and kill the poor unfortunate newb in under a second with an HMG, before the newb can kill the heavy Heavies need to have some form of a balancing factor, considering they require the least amount of tactical skill to run, but have the highest amount of reward. Heavy suits themselves do not need much of a nerf, if any. The real problem is the heavy machine gun in combination with the highest HP suit in the game that can turn at the same speed as a triple kincatted minja. Suggested nerfs for the heavy are a reduction in the range of the HMG in addition to a longer time to "focus" the death ray, as well as greatly increased overheat to reward skilled shooting versus "I'm going to spin in a circle and hold down R1 and kill everything around me". Disclaimer: I have begun running an HMG heavy, and it is BEYOND easy mode. It is literally unkillable except to people with better HMG's and better heavies if you run it like a scout (read: use tactics to gain an advantage), so take it as you will insert british naturalist voice here And once again we see a lovely member of the scoutus butthurtious giving it's all too familiar wail in its natural habitat. Science is currently unaware of the precise reason for this iconic call however we do know that when one of these fascinating creatures takes up the call more inevitably join in. Perhaps this is some kind of cry for attention of maybe even a mating call among their kind. One day we may just find the answer... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
vlad stoich NoGameNoLife 129	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:29:00 - [17] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: True Adamance wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. Thats the kind of attitude that gets me 1 out of every 3 of my kills. Scouts are idiots who think pseudo invisibility makes them clever. (Disclaimer this is intended to be incendiary, but by not means demean the noble rat-scout class....) The only time is use a cloak is to run away or out in the open on a bright map...its literally the most flimsy excuse for invisibility that I've seen... You are one of the most flimsy excuses for a player that I have seen. And thats the most flimsy excuse of a troll Ive ever seen. Speaking of flimsy trolls, this whole OP is weak as sh!t. Quit b!tching and whining. Heavies are the slowest with the biggest hit boxes. If you cant hit them from a distance than you should be using teamwork with other scouts. Use one as a distraction other move in with remotes or for the kill. But for gods sake enough with all the crying and asking for nerfs on everything.
Pushing Charlie 151	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:33:00 - [18] - Quote I don't see what all the fuss is about, I'm a Min Scout, and in the past 3 PC matches I've taken part in (Against fantastic teams) I've killed countless Heavies but died to them probably 2-3 times. Flank and Gank, and always carry an RE. Knight Soiaire I am the Wizard from the moon.
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1547	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:56:00 - [19] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I main cal assault on the ground and find it fascinating that heavies can moe through groups of mercs regardless of the frame (except maybe another heavy) even when they are concentrating fire. They move like knives through butter, very little resistance against them, hardly anything to limit it either. I think the killing power is fine, but the overheat mechanic needs to be touched on. I mean once you get the skill to reduce overheating to 3 do you even have to worry about overheating your gun?
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 216	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:59:00 - [20] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: With scouts, at least if the newbie sees the scout, they can kill it easily enough [sarcasm]Yeah scouts with their invisibility and their 12ft high jump spamming are the easiest things to kill on the battlefield. [/sarcasm] Heavy spam is a direct result of scout saturation. Fix the real problem and not the symptoms. There are players out there who can be invisible, more faster than the ingame sensitivity can track, jump to ridiculous heights, oh and deal 2hk damage with a weapon that can hipfire with no spread. But of course, according to you. the real problem is people protecting themselves.

castba Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 496	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:32:00 - [21] - Quote Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 37	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:33:00 - [22] - Quote With scout/shotgun proliferation, and a lack of vehicles in ambush...heavy HMG is the best choice currently...I would love to have vehicles put back into ambush (even if my HAV was deployed without a main gun) as just a wall against the oncoming bullets...DPS and EWAR needs to be examined on scouts...but as for cloaking, if you can't see the "cloak shadow" purple distortion thing they do, that's on you
Hynox Xitio 0uter.Heaven 1311	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:38:00 - [23] - Quote Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative. Unleash the Fogwoggler, follow your dreams. ( -íº -£-û -íº) /)
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:42:00 - [24] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: With scouts, at least if the newbie sees the scout, they can kill it easily enough [sarcasm]Yeah scouts with their invisibility and their 12ft high jump spamming are the easiest things to kill on the battlefield. [/sarcasm] Heavy spam is a direct result of scout saturation. Fix the real problem and not the symptoms. There are players out there who can be invisible, more faster than the ingame sensitivity can track, jump to ridiculous heights, oh and deal 2hk damage with a weapon that can hipfire with no spread. But of course, according to you. the real problem is people protecting themselves. ...um wat? "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:47:00 - [25] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative. The problem isn't head on fights, the problem is flanking, attacking, and being killed in under a half second by the HMG before my fifth shot can hit the heavy....Thats the problem for scouts. I really don't understand how new players are dealing with heavy spam, as it may well be the most difficult thing for them to counter. ARs and the like only deal real damage inside of the HMG's "insta-gib" range (50 meters and under), so it makes no sense for people to say "use a long range weapon", as not everyone has access to one. What if someone put all their points into gallente assault and plasma rifles, what then? You essentially are killing an entire play style by arguing that heavies should always win at anything under 50m. They should always win in a straight up firefight, thats their role. However, they are not vulnerable enough to 1. Surprise tactics, 2. shorter range rifles, which leads to an imbalance.... The suit is fine, the HMG is not "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 402	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:49:00 - [26] - Quote castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ Rail rifles are currently tearing me up on the battlefield whenever I pull out my Heavy because I can never get close enough to do the damage necessary (Especially on the open maps). They sit back and shoot outside my Optimal range (even with assault HMG) and if I find a way to go after them, they backtrack to keep distance. As has been stated before, if you are in a 300 HP suit, don't try to take on a Heavy at 10-15 meters. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:51:00 - [27] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ Rail rifles are currently tearing me up on the battlefield whenever I pull out my Heavy because I can never get close enough to do the damage necessary (Especially on the open maps). They sit back and shoot outside my Optimal range (even with assault HMG) and if I find a way to go after them, they backtrack to keep distance. As has been stated before, if you are in a 300 HP suit, don't try to take on a Heavy at 10-15 meters. What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? (also sorry about shotgunning your minja suit today, i felt pretty bad about it) "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 963	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:54:00 - [28] - Quote castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Onesimus Tarsus NoGameNoLife 2154	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:54:00 - [29] - Quote If only there was a way to balance encounters by lethality over time... if only! K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 402	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:55:00 - [30] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Hynox Xitio wrote: Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative. The problem isn't head on fights, the problem is flanking, attacking, and being killed in under a half second by the HMG before my fifth shot can hit the heavy....Thats the problem for scouts. I really don't understand how new players are dealing with heavy spam, as it may well be the most difficult thing for them to counter. ARs and the like only deal real damage inside of the HMG's "insta-gib" range (50 meters and under), so it makes no sense for people to say "use a long range weapon", as not everyone has access to one. What if someone put all their points into gallente assault and plasma rifles, what then? You essentially are killing an entire play style by arguing that heavies should always win at anything under 50m. They should always win in a straight up firefight, thats their role. However, they are not vulnerable enough to 1. Surprise tactics, 2. shorter range rifles, which leads to an imbalance.... The suit is fine, the HMG is not I have HMG proficiency up to 4 right now and with a basic HMG, anyone past about 20-30 meters doesn't take excessive damage because of distance and the spread. I don't know if 4 >>>> 5 makes that much of a difference in spread/weapon movement. I know I sure as hell can't kill anyone at 30 or 40 meters with even an Assault HMG. I got into a firefight with rail rifles where I was getting killed at between 40-47 meters (3 or 4 times, so not a 1 time anomaly). Using an assault HMG (the one meant for long distance) on scouts/assault suits, they were tearing my shields and armor to zero before I could get more than 1/2 their shield down. So all these people saying a standard HMG is deadly accurate/high DPS out to 50 meters needs to give me some of what their smoking. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:56:00 - [31] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: If only there was a way to balance encounters by lethality over time... if only! I liked one where as the HMG overheats, it loses RoF until it reaches sup breach plasma rifle levels of fire rate and then overheats....Id like this in addition to increased overheat over time "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 402	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:58:00 - [32] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ Rail rifles are currently tearing me up on the battlefield whenever I pull out my Heavy because I can never get close enough to do the damage necessary (Especially on the open maps). They sit back and shoot outside my Optimal range (even with assault HMG) and if I find a way to go after them, they backtrack to keep distance. As has been stated before, if you are in a 300 HP suit, don't try to take on a Heavy at 10-15 meters. What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? (also sorry about shotgunning your minja suit today, i felt pretty bad about it) Easy. Don't attack a heavy with 1300 HP unless you have the drop and catch him from behind. My basic Cal Sentinel has about 1080 HP on it. I got Nova Knifed today and it took less than 1/2 a second to kill me at full strength. I got the first stick in my back and before I could turn around to fire a shot I was dead. (I don't think that was me as I don't run Minja. I'm either a Logi, Commando, or Sentinel) Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:02:00 - [33] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Hynox Xitio wrote: Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative. The problem isn't head on fights, the problem is flanking, attacking, and being killed in under a half second by the HMG before my fifth shot can hit the heavy....Thats the problem for scouts. I really don't understand how new players are dealing with heavy spam, as it may well be the most difficult thing for them to counter. ARs and the like only deal real damage inside of the HMG's "insta-gib" range (50 meters and under), so it makes no sense for people to say "use a long range weapon", as not everyone has access to one. What if someone put all their points into gallente assault and plasma rifles, what then? You essentially are killing an entire play style by arguing that heavies should always win at anything under 50m. They should always win in a straight up firefight, thats their role. However, they are not vulnerable enough to 1. Surprise tactics, 2. shorter range rifles, which leads to an imbalance.... The suit is fine, the HMG is not I have HMG proficiency up to 4 right now and with a basic HMG, anyone past about 20-30 meters doesn't take excessive damage because of distance and the spread. I don't know if 4 >>>> 5 makes that much of a difference in spread/weapon movement. I know I sure as hell can't kill anyone at 30 or 40 meters with even an Assault HMG. I got into a firefight with rail rifles where I was getting killed at between 40-47 meters (3 or 4 times, so not a 1 time anomaly). Using an assault HMG (the one meant for long distance) on scouts/assault suits, they were tearing my shields and armor to zero before I could get more than 1/2 their shield down. So all these people saying a standard HMG is deadly accurate/high DPS out to 50 meters needs to give me some of what their smoking. Hmmmm....Most of my tests that I've done with the HMG indicate that damage falloff is really around the 35-40 meter range, and at 50 meters the dispersion is too much, unless ADS and crouching, but Ive only been HMGing inconsistently, and generally on Dom or Amb, never in PC or skirm....Also, what do you think of an aHMG buff by giving it reduced dispersion and a slightly lower RoF, (like 2000-2200 vs the current 2400)? I think the aHMG needs to be more definitively better at longer ranges, and worse up close. I think the burst HMG could use a little more dispersion to keep it the king of CQC HMG's (its basically just a shotgun), but keep everything else the same, and it'll be balanced. My real problem is the regular HMG having to much "death ray" capabilities at too far of a range (perhaps increase dispersion?) "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1491	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:02:00 - [34] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 188	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:13:00 - [35] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: new players can skill into heavies as well.... and as you said its easy mode... so new players should do fine. Thats the problem though: most new players see "Assault suit" and think that they want to skill into it, do so, then get raped by the HMG once they graduate and never play again. Trust me, the first suit i skilled into was amarr assault, and then callogi because it was the most prevalent, then the min scout cause i wanted to knife people. no the problem is instead of reading the forums before they spend their sp they see assault suit and derp themselves for a good month... then they come to the forums and complain that heavies are OP.....
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:17:00 - [36] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Onesimus Tarsus NoGameNoLife 2154	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:19:00 - [37] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: If only there was a way to balance encounters by lethality over time... if only! I liked one where as the HMG overheats, it loses RoF until it reaches sup breach plasma rifle levels of fire rate and then overheats....Id like this in addition to increased overheat over time Palm d'face. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 982	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:20:00 - [38] - Quote CCP is ruining this game for new players. Don't misplace the blame. I am a minotaur.
Vesperz D3ATH CARD 84	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:21:00 - [39] - Quote I handle heavies as I've always handled them, I flank and I attack when I have the advantage. If I don't, then I don't even bother confronting them, I run away. I have no need for a cloak, since stun lock is gone I've been speed tanking again. Remotes, shotgun, scrambler pistols, flux grenades, minmatar strafe speed. All I need. I do pretty well and hold my own. Live by honor, kill by stealth.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1491	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:30:00 - [40] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? Sure what do ya wanna know I'm always happy to help a fellow merc, even if they are dirty minmatar scum Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 624	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:34:00 - [41] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? Sure what do ya wanna know I'm always happy to help a fellow merc, even if they are dirty minmatar scum Dammit!! Do you know how much my face hurts right now? "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1491	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:36:00 - [42] - Quote Glad my humor was well received :3 I've got nothing against you btw I just don't want to see the Sentinel reduced to a laughingstock again Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 254	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:39:00 - [43] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? Sure what do ya wanna know I'm always happy to help a fellow merc, even if they are dirty minmatar scum I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:42:00 - [44] - Quote Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 254	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:47:00 - [45] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 624	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:54:00 - [46] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Glad my humor was well received :3 I've got nothing against you btw I just don't want to see the Sentinel reduced to a laughingstock again Well, after running my HMG heavy, I can tell you right now that the sustained killing power is ridiculous, and the only thing i die to is other HMG's. Iv only been SGed once by a proto cal scout, while fighting another HMG heavy. Id really like to see something done about perhaps increased overheat as well as making aHMG's more long range and bHMG's more CQC killers My ideas: aHMG: Greatly reduce spread, keeps current damage, RoF is reduced to 2000-2100 bHMG: Keep everything the same, except the spread needs a slight increase "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:56:00 - [47] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Gotta reach me first, but by all means charge my LR if it makes you feel better xD Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 256	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:05:00 - [48] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Gotta reach me first, but by all means charge my LR if it makes you feel better xD Oh zap guns.....hmm but that thing is not warm enough find another weapon more useful holding a big headed d1ck doesn't mean that you will get the job done. Meanwhile am setting your feet with REs. //The hit detection is weird even if is a constant stream i pass when someone was shooting at ground and i wasn't being hit...There is a free aur LR that is quite not usefull you will likely get assist points. There is another arcade game where that works swell is quite a EvE ripped off called Star Conflict.// Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Cogadh Draco WarRavens Final Resolution. 56	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:09:00 - [49] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Heavies are fine. +1 Heavies are good as they are. In close-medium range, your screwed if a heavy is aware of you, but outside that range or from behind that is a different story. I find it fun how its mostly scouts that 'voice' their negative opinions about heavies on both the forums, and the various chats in DUST514. Why not try to flank, play mind games, or plant traps for heavies hmm? I'm finding it stupid that I'm playing mind games and 'dummy hack' traps for scouts lately...
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:10:00 - [50] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Gotta reach me first, but by all means charge my LR if it makes you feel better xD Oh zap guns.....hmm but that thing is not warm enough find another weapon more useful holding a big headed d1ck doesn't mean that you will get the job done. Meanwhile am setting your feet with REs. //The hit detection is weird even if is a constant stream i pass when someone was shooting at ground and i wasn't being hit...There is a free aur LR that is quite not usefull you will likely get assist points. There is another arcade game where that works swell is quite a EvE ripped off called Star Conflict.// 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r

Espartoi Orkz Clan 257	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:17:00 - [51] - Quote Dis 5 quotes limit.... 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well[/quote] When you need Templar i only need the basic CR. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:19:00 - [52] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Dis 5 quotes limit.... 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well When you need Templar i only need the basic CR.[/quote] Templar is basic just looks cooler(and is infinite) Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 257	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:30:00 - [53] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: Dis 5 quotes limit.... 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well When you need Templar i only need the basic CR. Templar is basic just looks cooler(and is infinite)[/quote] I will just balance the match with a Flaylock. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 398	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:58:00 - [54] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? Ask Mr. Mustard, arguably one of the best Minjas in the game. That dude put me down in both my Amaar and Cal Sentinel suits at least 7 times during one match last week. I wasn't even raging, because it was pure skill... I admired it, actually. It involves knowledge of the maps, stealth, and flanking constantly. I never even saw that dude coming the majority of the time, until it was too late. No offense, but most scouts these days don't know how to play scout -- they all want to go head to head, for some reason. And I include myself in that list, because I got proto Gal and Min scouts (on different toons), and I perform nowhere near the level in those suits that the best scouts do. Don't f with me as a heavy, though, I'll mow you down. And it's not cause my suit or weapon is easy -- it's because I've been playing heavy for over a year, and I know more often than not where you're coming from, and to check my 6 often. Don't get mad cause I saw you coming -- scout's need to improve their own game. I get put down by the good ones all the time, no need to reward the crappy ones with a heavy nerf (not to turn speed, anyway, overheat I can agree with). Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.06.25 05:06:00 - [55] - Quote QQ. No, I'm pretty sure Caldari Scouts are ruining the game for new players. And all players.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 712	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:41:00 - [56] - Quote you are way over stateing the capabilityies of the heavy. you sure as hell do not need proto R.E's im still killing them without issue with basic's. when on this toon with my hmg i can murder scrub heavyies all day and in groups. one cal scout and thats it im doomed. i get three shotted from shottguns. im by no means the best heavy. but im pretty good at being a fatty and guess what kills me more than heavyies? scouts wheather running in packs or ambushing me fighting something 2x as fast as you that knows where you are facing at all times.
VALCORE72 Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:06:00 - [57] - Quote rather see hmg then rail noobs on heavys . 2 problem atm . 1 range could be shortn slightly . 2 . heavy and scouts sp cost to use is waaaaaaay off . both of these should be more expenses like double or triple the cost in sp to use . you would see lots more assault and logies what is suppose to be unless ppl specialise the sp for it ......
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3679	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:57:00 - [58] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Hynox Xitio wrote: Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative. The problem isn't head on fights, the problem is flanking, attacking, and being killed in under a half second by the HMG before my fifth shot can hit the heavy....Thats the problem for scouts. I really don't understand how new players are dealing with heavy spam, as it may well be the most difficult thing for them to counter. ARs and the like only deal real damage inside of the HMG's "insta-gib" range (50 meters and under), so it makes no sense for people to say "use a long range weapon", as not everyone has access to one. What if someone put all their points into gallente assault and plasma rifles, what then? You essentially are killing an entire play style by arguing that heavies should always win at anything under 50m. They should always win in a straight up firefight, thats their role. However, they are not vulnerable enough to 1. Surprise tactics, 2. shorter range rifles, which leads to an imbalance.... The suit is fine, the HMG is not 5th shot folks.............5th. I will spam your face with aurum proto.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 682	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:07:00 - [59] - Quote There is nothing wrong with heavy turn speed, this entire idea just comes from scouts that want to go back to days of running straight at a heavy and making him unable to fight back 90% of the time. Before anything is done to the heavy the real problem needs to be addressed, USELESS assault suits. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
MINA Longstrike 917	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:42:00 - [60] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. No, heavies are pretty ****** to try and deal with on anything other than heavies, due to excessively high HP and damage at short range. It gets worse when there's stuff like spammed triage nanohives. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.

aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:59:00 - [61] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: More specifically, HMG heavies. As it stands right now, there really are no counters outside of-proto min scout 5 with ishnoks (minimum 5 mil SP investment), Caldari scout with a shotgun (minimum 3.5 mil SP investment), boundless remotes (2 mil SP investment), or another heavy With scouts, at least if the newbie sees the scout, they can kill it easily enough, but with an HMG heavy, even if the newb shoots first and hits all head shots, the heavy can just turn and kill the poor unfortunate newb in under a second with an HMG, before the newb can kill the heavy Heavies need to have some form of a balancing factor, considering they require the least amount of tactical skill to run, but have the highest amount of reward. Heavy suits themselves do not need much of a nerf, if any. The real problem is the heavy machine gun in combination with the highest HP suit in the game that can turn at the same speed as a triple kincatted minja. Suggested nerfs for the heavy are a reduction in the range of the HMG in addition to a longer time to "focus" the death ray, as well as greatly increased overheat to reward skilled shooting versus "I'm going to spin in a circle and hold down R1 and kill everything around me". Disclaimer: I have begun running an HMG heavy, and it is BEYOND easy mode. It is literally unkillable except to people with better HMG's and better heavies if you run it like a scout (read: use tactics to gain an advantage), so take it as you will The thing you must understand is Dust is not a one suit fits all, once you have millions of sp you will have lots of suits. When that happens you will be much more of a complete player. That being said Sentinels are a suit we will ALL one day have, and as such I think they are a great first suit for exactly the reasons you mentioned. Now I said months ago when the rifle nerfs happened and cloaks came out that once we got scouts back under control we would sse how truly op heavies are, this still holds true. My suggestion though to any new person is simply become a heavy first. To me its a great first suit because you can be competitive right from the beginning with little needed in the way of core, equipment, etc etc. Now I know this was not what the op was looking for but at the moment its all we have. The last point is this while I know that HMG needs a touch up, keep in mind it is that HMG that has stopped the scouts from running wild. Played a pc a few days ago against Gods and Go Flux Yourself, we won by clones and it was thanks to our Heavys, they were all scouts trying to throw remotes and shotgun in the back. Scouts got tossed due to hmg, even little Rampage.......
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 574	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:08:00 - [62] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? Ask Mr. Mustard, arguably one of the best Minjas in the game. That dude put me down in both my Amaar and Cal Sentinel suits at least 7 times during one match last week. I wasn't even raging, because it was pure skill... I admired it, actually. It involves knowledge of the maps, stealth, and flanking constantly. I never even saw that dude coming the majority of the time, until it was too late. No offense, but most scouts these days don't know how to play scout -- they all want to go head to head, for some reason. And I include myself in that list, because I got proto Gal and Min scouts (on different toons), and I perform nowhere near the level in those suits that the best scouts do.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 99	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:10:00 - [63] - Quote The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. Service with a smile
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3682	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:14:00 - [64] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Glad my humor was well received :3 I've got nothing against you btw I just don't want to see the Sentinel reduced to a laughingstock again Well, after running my HMG heavy, I can tell you right now that the sustained killing power is ridiculous, and the only thing i die to is other HMG's. Iv only been SGed once by a proto cal scout, while fighting another HMG heavy. Id really like to see something done about perhaps increased overheat as well as making aHMG's more long range and bHMG's more CQC killers My ideas: aHMG: Greatly reduce spread, keeps current damage, RoF is reduced to 2000-2100 bHMG: Keep everything the same, except the spread needs a slight increase The spread increase would make it easier to hit people actually. It'd be a nerf at range so heavies would almost exclusively stay in cqc, which is where scouts go. So if this got implemented, you'd still be whining lol. I will spam your face with aurum proto.
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect Dirt Nap Squad. 453	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:51:00 - [65] - Quote As a `"dedicated" heavy i thaught scouts were the easy mode. atleast i do sometimes way better when things get really tough in my minmatar adv scout suit. Ive seen your other posts dude, you wanna nerf hmg and heavies so bad and buff your own suit. Well, your trying to ruin the game for HMG heavies. Scouts can avoid heavies easily, heavies cant avoid anything except a glorius death. You think HMG is easy mode, well its easy killing those 20 scrubs standing in your way just to get to that one special enemy heavy i wanna duel out with.
Clone D 469	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:22:00 - [66] - Quote If you can't kill 'em, stay out of their way. It's not a difficult lesson. .
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 218	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:28:00 - [67] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. Yeah I agree. He is worried heavies are making it harder for new players, but really his style is far more oppressive to a new player. A heavy with a HMG will just be a target that scares new players into retreating. It soaks up damage but its lethal range dropoff is significant. New players will run at a heavy HMG once. After that they learn to keep distance. As a new player, I would find it much more frustrating and discouraging to be up against invisible enemies than can OHK me.
jerrmy12 kahoalii New Age Empire. Proficiency V. 1545	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:33:00 - [68] - Quote Clone D wrote: If you can't kill 'em, stay out of their way. It's not a difficult lesson. So basically go 3/1? Because heavies can go cqc in 90% of areas. Closed beta vet. If bo burnham was on my little pony
jerrmy12 kahoalii New Age Empire. Proficiency V. 1545	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:35:00 - [69] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M Closed beta vet. If bo burnham was on my little pony
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3689	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:35:00 - [70] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. Yeah I agree. He is worried heavies are making it harder for new players, but really his style is far more oppressive to a new player. A heavy with a HMG will just be a target that scares new players into retreating. It soaks up damage but its lethal range dropoff is significant. New players will run at a heavy HMG once. After that they learn to keep distance. As a new player, I would find it much more frustrating and discouraging to be up against invisible enemies than can OHK me. Indeed. I created an alt and at least I could avoid heavies but scouts ohk from behind every other minute and you can't see them coming (newbs are a non factor). I will spam your face with aurum proto.

RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 104	Posted - 2014.06.25 16:21:00 - [71] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M So your another crap player (your corp tag confirms this anyway) and you admit to be a neckbeard by using links rather than actually making a point. 10/10 Service with a smile
jerrmy12 kahoalii New Age Empire. Proficiency V. 1545	Posted - 2014.06.25 16:25:00 - [72] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M So your another crap player (your corp tag confirms this anyway) and you admit to be a neckbeard by using links rather than actually making a point. 10/10 Im laughing too hard Noob assuming corp=skill. Closed beta vet. If bo burnham was on my little pony
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 104	Posted - 2014.06.25 16:38:00 - [73] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M So your another crap player (your corp tag confirms this anyway) and you admit to be a neckbeard by using links rather than actually making a point. 10/10 Im laughing too hard Noob assuming corp=skill. You all are though. I'm not the one making out that stuff is op when its not either, noob. Service with a smile
jerrmy12 kahoalii New Age Empire. Proficiency V. 1545	Posted - 2014.06.25 16:41:00 - [74] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: The heavy is specialised in killing and defense. By the ops logic we should nerf scout stealth because its too good, nerf logi HP and equipment slots, nerf commandos extra lights slot, nerf assaults possible HP tank, nerf assault drop ship speed and, well tanks are already a joke. Op is bad anyway, anyone who has played with or against it will know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M So your another crap player (your corp tag confirms this anyway) and you admit to be a neckbeard by using links rather than actually making a point. 10/10 Im laughing too hard Noob assuming corp=skill. You all are though. I'm not the one making out that stuff is op when its not either, noob. That's why my squad destroys all. And PX1 moved to NAE Closed beta vet. If bo burnham was on my little pony
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 104	Posted - 2014.06.25 16:43:00 - [75] - Quote So you whine that heavies are op when they are not and you think you are good?. You are delusional. Oh and a bunch of nubs made your nub corp bigger?, well done. Service with a smile
jerrmy12 kahoalii New Age Empire. Proficiency V. 1545	Posted - 2014.06.25 17:04:00 - [76] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: So you whine that heavies are op when they are not and you think you are good?. You are delusional. Oh and a bunch of nubs made your nub corp bigger?, well done. You're in a corp called neckbeard absolution Closed beta vet. If bo burnham was on my little pony
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 113	Posted - 2014.06.25 17:13:00 - [77] - Quote Leave the heavies alone. The heavies are all o.p... REALLY? you must be playing a different game. almost all of my deaths as a heavy come from scouts. shotguns or r.es both do the job just fine. turning speed? er.. NO. you are asking for the ability to one shot heavies and because you can't get that you want to make it so they can't defend themselves instead. not all heavies are the same either do you even know which heavies you have a problem with? gallente? caldari? amarr? minmatar? do you know what their modules are? damage mods? kinkats? maybe they are the heavies who got sick and tired of scouts putting them down without the chance to fight back? I say then that scouts are o.p and are ruining the game... maybe they should have less cpu and pg then they can't fit cloaks and r.es together, or maybe as shotguns are the ultimate weapon at the moment then they should be upgraded to a heavy weapon take them away from scouts all together. (clearly being devils advocate there) you are saying that the lightest armour suit in the game should be able to kill the heaviest armoured before they have chance to react. in what way does that make sense? the word scout should be a clue here... a scout ranges ahead of the team to 'scout' an area, they locate the enemy (scans), check for the best route (in dust drop uplinks), try to subvert the enemy plans either by sabotage or intel or by careful planning (remote traps,proximity mines,hacking objectives, flanking heavy troops that are already occupiedby other players,etc) they are not supposed to be running at heavily defended areas head on. Also look at the term flanking a little better, the word flank means "side" the term "flanking" is a shortened version of "outflank" meaning to approach from past the side of the enemy, it actually stems from days as long past as the romans and would usually be done by cavalry charges once the army had engaged in battle, the reason being that the forces were committed to direction and would not have the ability to turn around therefore leaving them vulnerable and disorganised. in dust terms to outflank a heavy you should wait until they are being distracted or are shooting at somebody else before trying to kill them, at the very least you should have a good idea of whether or not you will be able to cope with that target. (if you can or can't ohk? if you can't and they then find you will you be able to beat them?) if you can't kill them alone get help. this is all basic human thought pattern, you do something similar every single time you cross a street i.e is there a car? can I stand in front of a moving car? should I cross now or wait till it's gone? once again this is just another example of people who wish to be clinically dead from the neck up whilst they lay waste to people in a fps.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 104	Posted - 2014.06.25 17:17:00 - [78] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: So you whine that heavies are op when they are not and you think you are good?. You are delusional. Oh and a bunch of nubs made your nub corp bigger?, well done. You're in a corp called neckbeard absolution I didn't ask you if you could read but well done. Here's a gold star sticker. Service with a smile
jerrmy12 kahoalii New Age Empire. Proficiency V. 1546	Posted - 2014.06.25 17:23:00 - [79] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: So you whine that heavies are op when they are not and you think you are good?. You are delusional. Oh and a bunch of nubs made your nub corp bigger?, well done. You're in a corp called neckbeard absolution I didn't ask you if you could read but well done. Here's a gold star sticker. Ok troll Closed beta vet. If bo burnham was on my little pony
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 632	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:47:00 - [80] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Leave the heavies alone. The heavies are all o.p... REALLY? you must be playing a different game. almost all of my deaths as a heavy come from scouts. shotguns or r.es both do the job just fine. turning speed? er.. NO. you are asking for the ability to one shot heavies and because you can't get that you want to make it so they can't defend themselves instead. not all heavies are the same either do you even know which heavies you have a problem with? gallente? caldari? amarr? minmatar? do you know what their modules are? damage mods? kinkats? maybe they are the heavies who got sick and tired of scouts putting them down without the chance to fight back? I say then that scouts are o.p and are ruining the game... maybe they should have less cpu and pg then they can't fit cloaks and r.es together, or maybe as shotguns are the ultimate weapon at the moment then they should be upgraded to a heavy weapon take them away from scouts all together. (clearly being devils advocate there) you are saying that the lightest armour suit in the game should be able to kill the heaviest armoured before they have chance to react. in what way does that make sense? the word scout should be a clue here... a scout ranges ahead of the team to 'scout' an area, they locate the enemy (scans), check for the best route (in dust drop uplinks), try to subvert the enemy plans either by sabotage or intel or by careful planning (remote traps,proximity mines,hacking objectives, flanking heavy troops that are already occupiedby other players,etc) they are not supposed to be running at heavily defended areas head on. Also look at the term flanking a little better, the word flank means "side" the term "flanking" is a shortened version of "outflank" meaning to approach from past the side of the enemy, it actually stems from days as long past as the romans and would usually be done by cavalry charges once the army had engaged in battle, the reason being that the forces were committed to direction and would not have the ability to turn around therefore leaving them vulnerable and disorganised. in dust terms to outflank a heavy you should wait until they are being distracted or are shooting at somebody else before trying to kill them, at the very least you should have a good idea of whether or not you will be able to cope with that target. (if you can or can't ohk? if you can't and they then find you will you be able to beat them?) if you can't kill them alone get help. this is all basic human thought pattern, you do something similar every single time you cross a street i.e is there a car? can I stand in front of a moving car? should I cross now or wait till it's gone? once again this is just another example of people who wish to be clinically dead from the neck up whilst they lay waste to people in a fps. If you honestly can't react before a fifth SG shell hits you....either your internet is really really bad, or your reflexes are very very slow "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 639	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:49:00 - [81] - Quote RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: So you whine that heavies are op when they are not and you think you are good?. You are delusional. Oh and a bunch of nubs made your nub corp bigger?, well done. Who are you again? Also, everyone who reads this, please report him/her/it for trolling, its pretty annoying now. "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
David Mustane Commando Perkone Caldari State 20	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:50:00 - [82] - Quote Heavies are not a powerful as you would think. I drop alot of them with a RR or a RE. Not even proto level yet. So STFU, heavies are exactally what they should be.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5402	Posted - 2014.06.25 20:52:00 - [83] - Quote New players? They're ruining it for everyone. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1662	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:17:00 - [84] - Quote F*** off. I am sick of whiners who complain about everything. Skill into what is killing you and HTFU. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:46:00 - [85] - Quote mr musturd wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? Ask Mr. Mustard, arguably one of the best Minjas in the game. That dude put me down in both my Amaar and Cal Sentinel suits at least 7 times during one match last week. I wasn't even raging, because it was pure skill... I admired it, actually. It involves knowledge of the maps, stealth, and flanking constantly. I never even saw that dude coming the majority of the time, until it was too late. No offense, but most scouts these days don't know how to play scout -- they all want to go head to head, for some reason. And I include myself in that list, because I got proto Gal and Min scouts (on different toons), and I perform nowhere near the level in those suits that the best scouts do. fistbump You'll have to give me some knifing tips some time :) Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 639	Posted - 2014.06.25 22:15:00 - [86] - Quote calvin b wrote: F*** off. I am sick of whiners who complain about everything. Skill into what is killing you and HTFU. Heavies aren't killing me, its the amount of heavies slaughtering newbies that I'm concerned with...Also, I AM skilled into heavies, but never have a need to run anything above militia cause its SO DAMN EASY "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Markul Gartel Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 9	Posted - 2014.06.25 22:35:00 - [87] - Quote I agree reduce range on th HMG. It will finally bring it into balance.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15616	Posted - 2014.06.25 23:46:00 - [88] - Quote at 30 meters I can down any HMG heavy with a militia on a single mag. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 580	Posted - 2014.06.25 23:50:00 - [89] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: mr musturd wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? Ask Mr. Mustard, arguably one of the best Minjas in the game. That dude put me down in both my Amaar and Cal Sentinel suits at least 7 times during one match last week. I wasn't even raging, because it was pure skill... I admired it, actually. It involves knowledge of the maps, stealth, and flanking constantly. I never even saw that dude coming the majority of the time, until it was too late. No offense, but most scouts these days don't know how to play scout -- they all want to go head to head, for some reason. And I include myself in that list, because I got proto Gal and Min scouts (on different toons), and I perform nowhere near the level in those suits that the best scouts do. fistbump You'll have to give me some knifing tips some time :) Sadly I have no tactics lol I look at the tacnet get the flank, cut people, run away and repeat. That is my big secret to Nova knifing
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 112	Posted - 2014.06.25 23:58:00 - [90] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: RogueTrooper 2000AD wrote: So you whine that heavies are op when they are not and you think you are good?. You are delusional. Oh and a bunch of nubs made your nub corp bigger?, well done. Who are you again? Also, everyone who reads this, please report him/her/it for trolling, its pretty annoying now. I'm not trolling actually. You simply have nothing of value to say but rubbish, you got owned and can't take it. Stop trying to get things nerfed because you are plain crap and go play hello kitty. Service with a smile

TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3693	Posted - 2014.06.26 00:14:00 - [91] - Quote I created a scout alt. Min scout A-1 standard Highs - 2 militia shields Lows - 1 militia armour repair and 1 militia dampener Adv Knives and shotgun with no cloak but I had to do 3 matches to get ADV knives. I'm at least going 12/4 and heavies are always on my radar, I always get the jump on them and its 4 shots Max whatever they are wearing so far. I'm literally having every heavy I come across fight me when I want and how I want. This is in a std suit with militia mods, ADV knives and less than 250 HP. Why can't you do this with your main scout and if you can, then what's the problem?. If heavy spam is an issue then I'm sorry but anything spammed is an issue. I will spam your face with aurum proto.
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 82	Posted - 2014.06.26 00:23:00 - [92] - Quote Players are ruining themselves by not wanting to adapt. Dust 514 is Dust 514. Go hard or go home. There are plenty of easier games that are noob friendly that you can try out.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 114	Posted - 2014.06.26 00:30:00 - [93] - Quote And now for some fun facts guys. Gavr1I0 pr1nc1p lifetime kills - a newbish 10k, my alt has more than that. Now for the finale, this k/d is coming to you straight from a scout who fights everyone on his own terms..... A scout who is apparently good and his squad wrecks all........ Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, his k/d! 1.20................ So pro bro, and to think you have the best radars and stealth in the game eh?. Case closed. Service with a smile
Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2014.06.26 00:33:00 - [94] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: calvin b wrote: F*** off. I am sick of whiners who complain about everything. Skill into what is killing you and HTFU. Heavies aren't killing me, its the amount of heavies slaughtering newbies that I'm concerned with...Also, I AM skilled into heavies, but never have a need to run anything above militia cause its SO DAMN EASY That is a terrible excuse for wanting to nerf the heavies. Be a man about it. Don't hide behind noobs to push your agenda.
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 114	Posted - 2014.06.26 00:36:00 - [95] - Quote Mikey Ducati wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: calvin b wrote: F*** off. I am sick of whiners who complain about everything. Skill into what is killing you and HTFU. Heavies aren't killing me, its the amount of heavies slaughtering newbies that I'm concerned with...Also, I AM skilled into heavies, but never have a need to run anything above militia cause its SO DAMN EASY That is a terrible excuse for wanting to nerf the heavies. Be a man about it. Don't hide behind noobs to push your agenda. Its not an excuse. Its semi apologetic rubbish, a pathetic attempt at salvaging some morsel of respect after blatantly being a nub and proving it. Service with a smile
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 119	Posted - 2014.06.26 15:25:00 - [96] - Quote If you honestly can't react before a fifth SG shell hits you....either your internet is really really bad, or your reflexes are very very slow[/quote] Thanks you've just proven my point.... you have no clue about the differences in heavy fit outs or possibly even the effects of proficiency on weapons, therefore you don't even know what you want to complain about and instead of finding a way around your problems you come straight to the forums to cry out NERF!! heavies have only just become somewhere near to where they belong and it's been a long painful journey to get here. to any dev or cpm that looks on this thread Please don't go backwards now, the hotfixes so far are showing real promise it would be an outright shame to ruin it. (sad.. slow.. shake of my head) This clown actually thinks it takes five sg shots to down an advanced caldari heavy? you should be using this smilie by the end of your thread mate.


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