DUST Search - Heavies are ruining this game for new players

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:

Hynox Xitio wrote:

Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative.

The problem isn't head on fights, the problem is flanking, attacking, and being killed in under a half second by the HMG before my fifth shot can hit the heavy....Thats the problem for scouts.

I really don't understand how new players are dealing with heavy spam, as it may well be the most difficult thing for them to counter. ARs and the like only deal real damage inside of the HMG's "insta-gib" range (50 meters and under), so it makes no sense for people to say "use a long range weapon", as not everyone has access to one. What if someone put all their points into gallente assault and plasma rifles, what then? You essentially are killing an entire play style by arguing that heavies should always win at anything under 50m. They should always win in a straight up firefight, thats their role. However, they are not vulnerable enough to 1. Surprise tactics, 2. shorter range rifles, which leads to an imbalance....

The suit is fine, the HMG is not

I have HMG proficiency up to 4 right now and with a basic HMG, anyone past about 20-30 meters doesn't take excessive damage because of distance and the spread. I don't know if 4 >>>> 5 makes that much of a difference in spread/weapon movement. I know I sure as hell can't kill anyone at 30 or 40 meters with even an Assault HMG. I got into a firefight with rail rifles where I was getting killed at between 40-47 meters (3 or 4 times, so not a 1 time anomaly). Using an assault HMG (the one meant for long distance) on scouts/assault suits, they were tearing my shields and armor to zero before I could get more than 1/2 their shield down. So all these people saying a standard HMG is deadly accurate/high DPS out to 50 meters needs to give me some of what their smoking.

"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"

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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:56:00 - [31] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: If only there was a way to balance encounters by lethality over time... if only! I liked one where as the HMG overheats, it loses RoF until it reaches sup breach plasma rifle levels of fire rate and then overheats....Id like this in addition to increased overheat over time "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 402	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:58:00 - [32] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ Rail rifles are currently tearing me up on the battlefield whenever I pull out my Heavy because I can never get close enough to do the damage necessary (Especially on the open maps). They sit back and shoot outside my Optimal range (even with assault HMG) and if I find a way to go after them, they backtrack to keep distance. As has been stated before, if you are in a 300 HP suit, don't try to take on a Heavy at 10-15 meters. What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? (also sorry about shotgunning your minja suit today, i felt pretty bad about it) Easy. Don't attack a heavy with 1300 HP unless you have the drop and catch him from behind. My basic Cal Sentinel has about 1080 HP on it. I got Nova Knifed today and it took less than 1/2 a second to kill me at full strength. I got the first stick in my back and before I could turn around to fire a shot I was dead. (I don't think that was me as I don't run Minja. I'm either a Logi, Commando, or Sentinel) Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:02:00 - [33] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Hynox Xitio wrote: Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative. The problem isn't head on fights, the problem is flanking, attacking, and being killed in under a half second by the HMG before my fifth shot can hit the heavy....Thats the problem for scouts. I really don't understand how new players are dealing with heavy spam, as it may well be the most difficult thing for them to counter. ARs and the like only deal real damage inside of the HMG's "insta-gib" range (50 meters and under), so it makes no sense for people to say "use a long range weapon", as not everyone has access to one. What if someone put all their points into gallente assault and plasma rifles, what then? You essentially are killing an entire play style by arguing that heavies should always win at anything under 50m. They should always win in a straight up firefight, thats their role. However, they are not vulnerable enough to 1. Surprise tactics, 2. shorter range rifles, which leads to an imbalance.... The suit is fine, the HMG is not I have HMG proficiency up to 4 right now and with a basic HMG, anyone past about 20-30 meters doesn't take excessive damage because of distance and the spread. I don't know if 4 >>>> 5 makes that much of a difference in spread/weapon movement. I know I sure as hell can't kill anyone at 30 or 40 meters with even an Assault HMG. I got into a firefight with rail rifles where I was getting killed at between 40-47 meters (3 or 4 times, so not a 1 time anomaly). Using an assault HMG (the one meant for long distance) on scouts/assault suits, they were tearing my shields and armor to zero before I could get more than 1/2 their shield down. So all these people saying a standard HMG is deadly accurate/high DPS out to 50 meters needs to give me some of what their smoking. Hmmmm....Most of my tests that I've done with the HMG indicate that damage falloff is really around the 35-40 meter range, and at 50 meters the dispersion is too much, unless ADS and crouching, but Ive only been HMGing inconsistently, and generally on Dom or Amb, never in PC or skirm....Also, what do you think of an aHMG buff by giving it reduced dispersion and a slightly lower RoF, (like 2000-2200 vs the current 2400)? I think the aHMG needs to be more definitively better at longer ranges, and worse up close. I think the burst HMG could use a little more dispersion to keep it the king of CQC HMG's (its basically just a shotgun), but keep everything else the same, and it'll be balanced. My real problem is the regular HMG having to much "death ray" capabilities at too far of a range (perhaps increase dispersion?) "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1491	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:02:00 - [34] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 188	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:13:00 - [35] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: new players can skill into heavies as well.... and as you said its easy mode... so new players should do fine. Thats the problem though: most new players see "Assault suit" and think that they want to skill into it, do so, then get raped by the HMG once they graduate and never play again. Trust me, the first suit i skilled into was amarr assault, and then callogi because it was the most prevalent, then the min scout cause i wanted to knife people. no the problem is instead of reading the forums before they spend their sp they see assault suit and derp themselves for a good month... then they come to the forums and complain that heavies are OP.....
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 623	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:17:00 - [36] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Onesimus Tarsus NoGameNoLife 2154	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:19:00 - [37] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: If only there was a way to balance encounters by lethality over time... if only! I liked one where as the HMG overheats, it loses RoF until it reaches sup breach plasma rifle levels of fire rate and then overheats....Id like this in addition to increased overheat over time Palm d'face. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 982	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:20:00 - [38] - Quote CCP is ruining this game for new players. Don't misplace the blame. I am a minotaur.
Vesperz D3ATH CARD 84	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:21:00 - [39] - Quote I handle heavies as I've always handled them, I flank and I attack when I have the advantage. If I don't, then I don't even bother confronting them, I run away. I have no need for a cloak, since stun lock is gone I've been speed tanking again. Remotes, shotgun, scrambler pistols, flux grenades, minmatar strafe speed. All I need. I do pretty well and hold my own. Live by honor, kill by stealth.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1491	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:30:00 - [40] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? Sure what do ya wanna know I'm always happy to help a fellow merc, even if they are dirty minmatar scum Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 624	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:34:00 - [41] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? Sure what do ya wanna know I'm always happy to help a fellow merc, even if they are dirty minmatar scum Dammit!! Do you know how much my face hurts right now? "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1491	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:36:00 - [42] - Quote Glad my humor was well received :3 I've got nothing against you btw I just don't want to see the Sentinel reduced to a laughingstock again Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 254	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:39:00 - [43] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: castba wrote: Easiest counter to Hmg heavies is to use any rifle on them from 40+m. Why are the complainers finding this so difficult now? It has always been this way. That would require having at least 600 HP to tank their HMG from that range. My STANDARD Amarr scout does it all the time... EDIT: and no before you ask it isn't brick tanked.... Well you are obviously the best player of this game ever, so you don't count because you are so good. I need some lessons from you, would you mind teaching me about how to be as good as you? Sure what do ya wanna know I'm always happy to help a fellow merc, even if they are dirty minmatar scum I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:42:00 - [44] - Quote Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 254	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:47:00 - [45] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 624	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:54:00 - [46] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Glad my humor was well received :3 I've got nothing against you btw I just don't want to see the Sentinel reduced to a laughingstock again Well, after running my HMG heavy, I can tell you right now that the sustained killing power is ridiculous, and the only thing i die to is other HMG's. Iv only been SGed once by a proto cal scout, while fighting another HMG heavy. Id really like to see something done about perhaps increased overheat as well as making aHMG's more long range and bHMG's more CQC killers My ideas: aHMG: Greatly reduce spread, keeps current damage, RoF is reduced to 2000-2100 bHMG: Keep everything the same, except the spread needs a slight increase "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 03:56:00 - [47] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Gotta reach me first, but by all means charge my LR if it makes you feel better xD Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 256	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:05:00 - [48] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Gotta reach me first, but by all means charge my LR if it makes you feel better xD Oh zap guns.....hmm but that thing is not warm enough find another weapon more useful holding a big headed d1ck doesn't mean that you will get the job done. Meanwhile am setting your feet with REs. //The hit detection is weird even if is a constant stream i pass when someone was shooting at ground and i wasn't being hit...There is a free aur LR that is quite not usefull you will likely get assist points. There is another arcade game where that works swell is quite a EvE ripped off called Star Conflict.// Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Cogadh Draco WarRavens Final Resolution. 56	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:09:00 - [49] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Heavies are fine. +1 Heavies are good as they are. In close-medium range, your screwed if a heavy is aware of you, but outside that range or from behind that is a different story. I find it fun how its mostly scouts that 'voice' their negative opinions about heavies on both the forums, and the various chats in DUST514. Why not try to flank, play mind games, or plant traps for heavies hmm? I'm finding it stupid that I'm playing mind games and 'dummy hack' traps for scouts lately...
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:10:00 - [50] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: I help Amarrian D1ck Huggers.. just put your head into my CR. Stick your head in my Breach ScP first :3 Maybe after i stuck my HMG in your but and make the bullets fly out of your mouth. Gotta reach me first, but by all means charge my LR if it makes you feel better xD Oh zap guns.....hmm but that thing is not warm enough find another weapon more useful holding a big headed d1ck doesn't mean that you will get the job done. Meanwhile am setting your feet with REs. //The hit detection is weird even if is a constant stream i pass when someone was shooting at ground and i wasn't being hit...There is a free aur LR that is quite not usefull you will likely get assist points. There is another arcade game where that works swell is quite a EvE ripped off called Star Conflict.// 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r

Espartoi Orkz Clan 257	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:17:00 - [51] - Quote Dis 5 quotes limit.... 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well[/quote] When you need Templar i only need the basic CR. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1493	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:19:00 - [52] - Quote Espartoi wrote: Dis 5 quotes limit.... 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well When you need Templar i only need the basic CR.[/quote] Templar is basic just looks cooler(and is infinite) Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Espartoi Orkz Clan 257	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:30:00 - [53] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Espartoi wrote: Dis 5 quotes limit.... 1) The LR is more then deadly if preheated 2) Don't need AUR garbage when the Templar works equally as well When you need Templar i only need the basic CR. Templar is basic just looks cooler(and is infinite)[/quote] I will just balance the match with a Flaylock. Shoot Smash Stomp Chop. Am a Giant Realistic Flying Tiger.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 398	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:58:00 - [54] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: What if you're a ninja with knives? whats the suggestion then? Ask Mr. Mustard, arguably one of the best Minjas in the game. That dude put me down in both my Amaar and Cal Sentinel suits at least 7 times during one match last week. I wasn't even raging, because it was pure skill... I admired it, actually. It involves knowledge of the maps, stealth, and flanking constantly. I never even saw that dude coming the majority of the time, until it was too late. No offense, but most scouts these days don't know how to play scout -- they all want to go head to head, for some reason. And I include myself in that list, because I got proto Gal and Min scouts (on different toons), and I perform nowhere near the level in those suits that the best scouts do. Don't f with me as a heavy, though, I'll mow you down. And it's not cause my suit or weapon is easy -- it's because I've been playing heavy for over a year, and I know more often than not where you're coming from, and to check my 6 often. Don't get mad cause I saw you coming -- scout's need to improve their own game. I get put down by the good ones all the time, no need to reward the crappy ones with a heavy nerf (not to turn speed, anyway, overheat I can agree with). Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.06.25 05:06:00 - [55] - Quote QQ. No, I'm pretty sure Caldari Scouts are ruining the game for new players. And all players.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 712	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:41:00 - [56] - Quote you are way over stateing the capabilityies of the heavy. you sure as hell do not need proto R.E's im still killing them without issue with basic's. when on this toon with my hmg i can murder scrub heavyies all day and in groups. one cal scout and thats it im doomed. i get three shotted from shottguns. im by no means the best heavy. but im pretty good at being a fatty and guess what kills me more than heavyies? scouts wheather running in packs or ambushing me fighting something 2x as fast as you that knows where you are facing at all times.
VALCORE72 Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:06:00 - [57] - Quote rather see hmg then rail noobs on heavys . 2 problem atm . 1 range could be shortn slightly . 2 . heavy and scouts sp cost to use is waaaaaaay off . both of these should be more expenses like double or triple the cost in sp to use . you would see lots more assault and logies what is suppose to be unless ppl specialise the sp for it ......
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3679	Posted - 2014.06.25 09:57:00 - [58] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Hynox Xitio wrote: Note how all the complaints regarding heavies stem from scouts, who in no way should be able to engage and best heavies in a head-to-head scuffle. It's like complaining that a small toddler with kitchen knives is unable to tackle a grown man wielding a baseball bat. You're supposed to get creative. The problem isn't head on fights, the problem is flanking, attacking, and being killed in under a half second by the HMG before my fifth shot can hit the heavy....Thats the problem for scouts. I really don't understand how new players are dealing with heavy spam, as it may well be the most difficult thing for them to counter. ARs and the like only deal real damage inside of the HMG's "insta-gib" range (50 meters and under), so it makes no sense for people to say "use a long range weapon", as not everyone has access to one. What if someone put all their points into gallente assault and plasma rifles, what then? You essentially are killing an entire play style by arguing that heavies should always win at anything under 50m. They should always win in a straight up firefight, thats their role. However, they are not vulnerable enough to 1. Surprise tactics, 2. shorter range rifles, which leads to an imbalance.... The suit is fine, the HMG is not 5th shot folks.............5th. I will spam your face with aurum proto.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 682	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:07:00 - [59] - Quote There is nothing wrong with heavy turn speed, this entire idea just comes from scouts that want to go back to days of running straight at a heavy and making him unable to fight back 90% of the time. Before anything is done to the heavy the real problem needs to be addressed, USELESS assault suits. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
MINA Longstrike 917	Posted - 2014.06.25 10:42:00 - [60] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: I find it funny how the scouts are the only ones complaining about heavies. I mean, you are in a weak suit, you shouldn't approach a heavy anywhere near 60 meters since that thing will shred you. But then again, scouts want the easy life now, making us go back to post hot fix Alpha nd make scouts the only viable suit in the game. Heavies are good, I have no problem fighting them as I stay outside from the range that makes them deadly, unless it is a Commando, then you just run staright at him since he is clunky and slow and only carrying light arms. No, heavies are pretty ****** to try and deal with on anything other than heavies, due to excessively high HP and damage at short range. It gets worse when there's stuff like spammed triage nanohives. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.



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