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Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 553	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:22:00 - [61] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: Wasn-¦t even talking about an integrated market with EVE because it-¦s definetly not happening for a long time. Was more of a curiosity if there would be Legion only base items to manufacture Legion only equipment, and how the location/transportation of items would work. Wasn-¦t even giving a timeframe, at launch it has to go babysteps, just wondered if down the road there were plans to more than "just shooting, dying, grinding for equip, paying for equip, just shooting again" Eventually there will have to be a point where people in Legion will want to do more than just shoot. Even right now, some of us like me would one day like to earn a living trading in the Legion market while I go shoot somewhere. Or perhaps just hang out in the local colonies or districts and have a drink with my D-UNI friends as we watch over the refining facilities talking about how Jita will burn again. Or better yet, explore the open plains looking for new sources of materials for our war effort. Of course, as we all know, baby steps. I know I won't see something like this for maybe at least 3-5 years. I-¦ve been playing since 2012 , i was expecting 3-4 years back then, not 3-5 now. But, meh. Still looking foward to, willl buy a new pc as soon as something juicy is presented.
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 843	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:26:00 - [62] - Quote Looking good. What are medium weapons? Medium frame EHP is not medium
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11141	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:26:00 - [63] - Quote I see Installations in that Market............ does this mean we will actually get them?! " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 04:30:00 - [64] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Looking good. What are medium weapons? This
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1452	Posted - 2014.06.25 05:37:00 - [65] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: medomai grey wrote: Looking good. What are medium weapons? This Placeholders. Really guys, the subject is market, not itemization. Don't read too much into specific content. He wouldn't tell us yet anyway. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 218	Posted - 2014.06.25 07:19:00 - [66] - Quote SCREENSHOOTS!!! I gave Planetside 2 a try, and its menues are frankly butt-ugly and confusing. This here on the other hand looks pretty promising. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3825	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:16:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Quick answers: - Of course the weapons were just put there for the purpose of the screenshot - We want to make it even easier to restock your fittings, so no back and forth between fitting and Market - Regarding the skill missing: imagine now clicking on it and it opens up your skill tree so you know what to upgrade to get it Love to see you working on something that allows us all to slap you on the back and say GÇ£Good Job Z!GÇ¥ Progression was a challenging, complex and sensitive subject, where serious debate was needed, but since it was your first interaction with the community I worried that you might feel a bit beat up having to deal with us on such a controversial subject. So it feels nice to respond to you with GÇ£cool!, and what if...GÇ¥ instead of GÇ£yeah, but...GÇ¥. It is nice to see you getting some love from the community. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3825	Posted - 2014.06.25 11:32:00 - [68] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: So this is what you guys have been busy working on ;D My initial reaction when I saw this was "Woah, look at all the pretty colors!" Seriously, in the current Dust market it's very blue...and more blue I know that a lot of other players really like the idea of a player-market, but it's one of the things that has kept me away from playing EVE. FPS players want to spend more time shooting people in the face than managing their assets in a market hub. I really hope that even though we won't be able to buy thousands of weapons from a NPC market, there will still be a simplistic way to restock items (like you currently can on the fitting screen) without having to go into the market to buy and sell. That said, this is great stuff and I seriously can't wait to see more of it in the future. Keep it up! sure you could buy everything the simple way... blindy buying from the "lowest" seller. theres an option for that. problem for you is you dont know if the seller is marking up his prices. 10k isk for a rail rifle from a guy in some station, in a solar system, in a particular region sounds great. but theres a guy in a different station in another region selling the same item for 100 isk. people get ripped off every day in eve. I think it will be a choice between connivance and savings. Those who do it the easy way will end up paying more in the long run, but they donGÇÖt have to waste time doing stuff they consider boring, and can spend more time doing fun stuff like shooting people in the face. These will also be the people who sell to whatever GÇ£Buy OrderGÇ¥ is up to offload their stuff, rather than waisting time on the market trying to get full price. Those are the people who will make it profitable for you to play the markets if playing the markets is what is fun for you. (I often enjoy it.) If you know what the going price is on something, and you can scan the markets and spot people selling that item for less than market value, then you can snatch it up. This will allow you to keep your fits stocked for much less ISK, or allow you to resell the item (to the people mentioned above) at a profit. It is a win for the guy who does not want to bother with that complicated stuff and just wants to shoot people in the face. It is a win for the guy who likes to play the market and get rich. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3826	Posted - 2014.06.25 12:18:00 - [69] - Quote byte modal wrote: Hm. Maybe I'm making stuff up here, but I think I remember reading character clone transfer discussions in MC Peanut's post a while back from one location to another. Seemed instantaneous to me, just with a transitional visual sequence maybe. With that assumption as a basis, would then all of our inventory travel with us to access for use or trade in other regions? My point is I doubt we would be able to pirate each other beyond ground-game. We travel nearly instantly because we are transmitted as data and downloaded into a clone in another location. Our stuff canGÇÖt travel instantly unless it to travels as data. I proposed a Digital Token system in the Salvage thread which would cover the logistics of how this could work. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3826	Posted - 2014.06.25 12:30:00 - [70] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: Wasn-¦t even talking about an integrated market with EVE because it-¦s definetly not happening for a long time. Was more of a curiosity if there would be Legion only base items to manufacture Legion only equipment, and how the location/transportation of items would work. Wasn-¦t even giving a timeframe, at launch it has to go babysteps, just wondered if down the road there were plans to more than "just shooting, dying, grinding for equip, paying for equip, just shooting again" Eventually there will have to be a point where people in Legion will want to do more than just shoot. Even right now, some of us like me would one day like to earn a living trading in the Legion market while I go shoot somewhere. Or perhaps just hang out in the local colonies or districts and have a drink with my D-UNI friends as we watch over the refining facilities talking about how Jita will burn again. Or better yet, explore the open plains looking for new sources of materials for our war effort. Of course, as we all know, baby steps. I know I won't see something like this for maybe at least 3-5 years. I-¦ve been playing since 2012 , i was expecting 3-4 years back then, not 3-5 now. But, meh. Still looking foward to, willl buy a new pc as soon as something juicy is presented. CCP is learning from its mistakes with DUST. That is why the player to player market will be part of Legion from the beginning. It is also being designed as part of the EVE market, although the crossover may be restricted. Integrating the EVE/Legion market will just be a matter of removing restrictions, rather than programing new links. As to manufacturing, if their is sufficient interest from the players in manufacturing, then I expect will will eventually get what we ask for. CCP has said there will be no manufacturing at launch, but they have also said that some of the manufacturing proposals are interesting, so I think they are getting some ideas from the Community, and if interest continues to be strong, they will likely incorporate manufacturing in one of the earlier expansions. With a Player to Player market already in place, adding manufacturing will be easier. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 553	Posted - 2014.06.25 12:52:00 - [71] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: We travel nearly instantly because we are transmitted as data and downloaded into a clone in another location. Our stuff canGÇÖt travel instantly unless it to travels as data. I proposed a Digital Token system in the Salvage thread which would cover the logistics of how this could work. How do i steal your digital tokens?
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 553	Posted - 2014.06.25 12:55:00 - [72] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CCP is learning from its mistakes with DUST. That is why the player to player market will be part of Legion from the beginning. It is also being designed as part of the EVE market, although the crossover may be restricted. Integrating the EVE/Legion market will just be a matter of removing restrictions, rather than programing new links. As to manufacturing, if their is sufficient interest from the players in manufacturing, then I expect will will eventually get what we ask for. CCP has said there will be no manufacturing at launch, but they have also said that some of the manufacturing proposals are interesting, so I think they are getting some ideas from the Community, and if interest continues to be strong, they will likely incorporate manufacturing in one of the earlier expansions. With a Player to Player market already in place, adding manufacturing will be easier. With unlimited suits and a monetization plan around salvaged items, i don-¦t see much space for manufacturing as an activity. Some sort of "blacksmith" to "enhance" weapons with gemstones in wich slots are bought with chance based aurum stuff i can envision, but manufacturing as an activity, based on the premise of "Class" with unlimited suits? Nope.
Oceltot Mortalis 9	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:04:00 - [73] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: I noticed under weapons you have Light, Medium and Heavy. Is this just an oversight in the UI mockup or are we getting Medium weapons (which would probably fix a lot of current balance issues). I too want clarification from a dev, nay, I demand it! In life, I have this to regret. That too often, when I acquired ISK, I did not have enough of it. -everyone in EVE, ever
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3064	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:21:00 - [74] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: How do i steal your digital tokens? You don't. You can steal the items before they are converted into tokens, but once that character leaves the planet they were salvaging, the items would be safe. It makes sense to do it in this manner, as there is no travel between planets for Legion players. Natu Nobilis wrote: With unlimited suits and a monetization plan around salvaged items, i don-¦t see much space for manufacturing as an activity. Some sort of "blacksmith" to "enhance" weapons with gemstones in wich slots are bought with chance based aurum stuff i can envision, but manufacturing as an activity, based on the premise of "Class" with unlimited suits? Nope. It would be very easily to add in a manufacturing system similar to manufactuing rigs in EVE. You could break modules down into basic components and/or salvage basic components along with modules and manufacture new modules from blueprints with a bill of materials requiring those ingredients. It wouldn't have to be in at launch either. You could quite easily add in the ability to create items after the fact without a problem. It also keeps Legions economy naturally isolated from EVE's. No worrying about an EVE player with a dedicated mining operation building thousands of suits and modules for virtually free with the large stockpile of minerals they might be hoarding.
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 553	Posted - 2014.06.25 13:36:00 - [75] - Quote @ZDub 303 Exactly, we don-¦t steal. No major thefts news, no need to worry about the integrity of your group, no need to organize, delegate, manage, fiscalize, control, audit, TRUST. How can treason happen if there-¦s no component for trust? There seems to be no reason to organize together so far. What-¦s the worst that could happen if i play alone, die to an npc? My suit will be there, so fack it, i get a +1 "common" stick and kill low level drones unitl i can cash in a "uncommon" stick. The biggest fear is simply "who-¦s at the same instance as me?" I get the same feeling in WoW when the warrior decides to grab the mage loot at the end of the raid. "Ohhhhh, the treason! That staff was mine, you random group person!"
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3828	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:25:00 - [76] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: CCP is learning from its mistakes with DUST. That is why the player to player market will be part of Legion from the beginning. It is also being designed as part of the EVE market, although the crossover may be restricted. Integrating the EVE/Legion market will just be a matter of removing restrictions, rather than programing new links. As to manufacturing, if their is sufficient interest from the players in manufacturing, then I expect will will eventually get what we ask for. CCP has said there will be no manufacturing at launch, but they have also said that some of the manufacturing proposals are interesting, so I think they are getting some ideas from the Community, and if interest continues to be strong, they will likely incorporate manufacturing in one of the earlier expansions. With a Player to Player market already in place, adding manufacturing will be easier. With unlimited suits and a monetization plan around salvaged items, i don-¦t see much space for manufacturing as an activity. Some sort of "blacksmith" to "enhance" weapons with gemstones in wich slots are bought with chance based aurum stuff i can envision, but manufacturing as an activity, based on the premise of "Class" with unlimited suits? Nope. First of all, the suit coast has simply been collapsed into the clone cost, so that it is the Corporation rather than the Mercenary that pays for it. So it is not technically free. It is just free from the playerGÇÖs perspective. You may see a cost for suits when you get into Planetary Conquest logistics. (Original meaning of the term GÇ£logisticsGÇ¥, not a synonym for healer.) As for manufacturing, I would start with Drones and Vehicles, where you can salvage components, and then assemble them to make a new Drone or vehicle. Say you salvage a HAV tread (you need 4 of them for the HAVGÇÖs we have now), you can sell it on the market as a part. A manufacturer can buy a Caldari HAV body, 4 treads, a turret mount, a power generator, a medium computer system, an engine, wiring harnesses, drive train, and control modules; put them all together and produce a Caldari HAV. Have additional rare components for vehicle variants. You could also give EVE players the ability to manufacture these components, so you could have two sources: Salvage, and EVE Manufacturing. If the drop rate on Salvage is lower than the demand, then there would still be plenty of room for EVE manufacturers to make a profit. On another note, when you make WOW references without translating the lore it sounds stupid. Magic gemstones makes sense in WOW lore, but in New Eden you would need auxiliary systems and system modifications to do the same thing. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Olomo Daygon ZionTCD Top Men. 35	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:32:00 - [77] - Quote AWESOME! THIS CCP! I'm so glad yall are moving closer to getting Legion Greenlit!! Thi s is the game I always wanted!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3828	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:46:00 - [78] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: We travel nearly instantly because we are transmitted as data and downloaded into a clone in another location. Our stuff canGÇÖt travel instantly unless it to travels as data. I proposed a Digital Token system in the Salvage thread which would cover the logistics of how this could work. How do i steal your digital tokens? 1) You could acquire Digital Tokens through scams and fraud. 2) You could steel the item, and the owner of the item would have to wright it off as a loss, just as if it was lost in battle. Then you could turn the item in as salvage to get a Digital Token for it. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3828	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:50:00 - [79] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Natu Nobilis wrote: How do i steal your digital tokens? You don't. You can steal the items before they are converted into tokens, but once that character leaves the planet they were salvaging, the items would be safe. It makes sense to do it in this manner, as there is no travel between planets for Legion players. Natu Nobilis wrote: With unlimited suits and a monetization plan around salvaged items, i don-¦t see much space for manufacturing as an activity. Some sort of "blacksmith" to "enhance" weapons with gemstones in wich slots are bought with chance based aurum stuff i can envision, but manufacturing as an activity, based on the premise of "Class" with unlimited suits? Nope. It would be very easily to add in a manufacturing system similar to manufactuing rigs in EVE. You could break modules down into basic components and/or salvage basic components along with modules and manufacture new modules from blueprints with a bill of materials requiring those ingredients. It wouldn't have to be in at launch either. You could quite easily add in the ability to create items after the fact without a problem. It also keeps Legions economy naturally isolated from EVE's. No worrying about an EVE player with a dedicated mining operation building thousands of suits and modules for virtually free with the large stockpile of minerals they might be hoarding. Yes, all they would have to do is reduce the drop rate on fully intact items, when they introduce salvaging of components. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3828	Posted - 2014.06.25 14:58:00 - [80] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: @ZDub 303 Exactly, we don-¦t steal. No major thefts news, no need to worry about the integrity of your group, no need to organize, delegate, manage, fiscalize, control, audit, TRUST. How can treason happen if there-¦s no component for trust? There seems to be no reason to organize together so far. What-¦s the worst that could happen if i play alone, die to an npc? My suit will be there, so fack it, i get a +1 "common" stick and kill low level drones unitl i can cash in a "uncommon" stick. The biggest fear is simply "who-¦s at the same instance as me?" I get the same feeling in WoW when the warrior decides to grab the mage loot at the end of the raid. "Ohhhhh, the treason! That staff was mine, you random group person!" The acquisition, transport, and distribution of the physical items such as weapons is the responsibility of the Corporation that runs the War Barge. There is no NPC Corporations in Planetary Conquest. Player Corporation run conflicts are where the large newsworthy heists will happen. The Digital Token system moves the responsibility of item transport from the individual to the Corporation. But an individual with an EVE contact willing to move the goods, can still steel items from a Player Corporation, and then turn those items in as Salvage. The Player Corporation will have to buy new Digital Tokens in order to restock. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 553	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:26:00 - [81] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: 1) You could acquire Digital Tokens through scams and fraud. 2) You could steel the item, and the owner of the item would have to wright it off as a loss, just as if it was lost in battle. Then you could turn the item in as salvage to get a Digital Token for it. (Edit, think raiding the armory in another Corp's district. ) If a digital token is only a way of transportation of items, how do i fraud or scam someone? That i can steal items on the ground it-¦s already the game mechanic, but once they-¦re converted, they-¦re "imune" until being on the ground again. Is it an item? Do i have it attached to the warbarge? If i destroy a warbarge, does it drop the digital tokens like Sonic? What exactly IS a DT besides a conversion unit? Fox Gaden wrote: Yes, all they would have to do is reduce the drop rate on fully intact items, when they introduce salvaging of components. Nothing that i-¦ve seen so far goes in this way, that-¦-¦s why i-¦m concerned about the manufacture effort.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 372	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:36:00 - [82] - Quote Wait, hold up: how are we to get skillbooks if there's no NPC seeding?
Natu Nobilis DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 553	Posted - 2014.06.25 15:42:00 - [83] - Quote Why would you think somehting like this?
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3066	Posted - 2014.06.25 16:04:00 - [84] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: @ZDub 303 Exactly, we don-¦t steal. No major thefts news, no need to worry about the integrity of your group, no need to organize, delegate, manage, fiscalize, control, audit, TRUST. How can treason happen if there-¦s no component for trust? There seems to be no reason to organize together so far. What-¦s the worst that could happen if i play alone, die to an npc? My suit will be there, so fack it, i get a +1 "common" stick and kill low level drones unitl i can cash in a "uncommon" stick. The biggest fear is simply "who-¦s at the same instance as me?" I get the same feeling in WoW when the warrior decides to grab the mage loot at the end of the raid. "Ohhhhh, the treason! That staff was mine, you random group person!" Hm... i'm trying to formulate a response but this is all pretty much nonsense ranting about MMORPGs... could you rephrase this into a statement? Betrayal and all that is still possible. You can have a corporate hanger in Legion as well as anything else. You can also still bring in physical item transport into Legion by only allowing a certain number of stations with digital token services, thereby require EVE players to transport Legion assets between stations and planets in Low Sec.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8809	Posted - 2014.06.25 18:14:00 - [85] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Wait, hold up: how are we to get skillbooks if there's no NPC seeding? I'm guessing CCP Z is referring to weapons, vehicles and modules specifically. Skill books on the other hand are mostly NPC seeded even in Eve Online. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Captain Crutches Nexus Marines 150	Posted - 2014.06.25 19:59:00 - [86] - Quote I'd also like to echo that it's great to see Z giving us something we really like, so we can give the poor guy some positive reinforcement after that progression threadnought. :) Z's progression is the only thing about Legion that gives me doubts. The rest has me totally stoked! @CaptainCrutches
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 375	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:22:00 - [87] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Wait, hold up: how are we to get skillbooks if there's no NPC seeding? I'm guessing CCP Z is referring to weapons, vehicles and modules specifically. Skill books on the other hand are mostly NPC seeded even in Eve Online. Okay, next question: Why is it so hard to have straight up manufacturing and mining in Legion?Why does everything have to be about going pew pew at clones and rogue drones (which is a silly amount of things to shoot at)?
Kincate DUST University Ivy League 74	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:32:00 - [88] - Quote I like, I am assumeing though that the categories are place holders right? I mean will they be more specific? 1st Legionhare
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8811	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:56:00 - [89] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Wait, hold up: how are we to get skillbooks if there's no NPC seeding? I'm guessing CCP Z is referring to weapons, vehicles and modules specifically. Skill books on the other hand are mostly NPC seeded even in Eve Online. Okay, next question: Why is it so hard to have straight up manufacturing and mining in Legion?Why does everything have to be about going pew pew at clones and rogue drones (which is a silly amount of things to shoot at)? It just seems to make sense to allow Eve players to handle the production side of things while Legion players handle the harvesting side of things for one very compelling reason. Eve Online has 11 years worth of manufacturing experience. Their industry is exceedingly robust and efficient and every industrial player there knows how to best produce bulk quantities in a short amount of time to meet the demand. They have the tools, the facilities, and the skills. Legion on the other hand doesn't even have an industry to begin with except for maybe the districts one day becoming the ground work for large-scale harvesting of materials. Hell, we don't know what materials will be harvested or needed for production of the gear we need as Legionaries and we don't even have NPC production facilities for those who don't want to bother owning and managing one. So until Legion is ready for its own industry, it's just easier in the short term to let the Eve player handle the production while Legionaries deal with harvesting. Some people speculate that this will only mean that Eve players will be extorting Legionaries through pricing, but that's not going to be the case if Eve players have to one day rely on Legionaries to provide the materials needed and when the same Eve players have to deal with their own competitors who are willing to snatch up their clients. Competition ensures the prices remain reasonable. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8811	Posted - 2014.06.25 21:59:00 - [90] - Quote Kincate wrote: I like, I am assumeing though that the categories are place holders right? I mean will they be more specific? Very likely place holders. CCP Z did say that this is just the first iteration. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.



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