DUST Search - Rough Sketch of Sniper Rifle Damage Models.

All Channels

General Discussions

Rough Sketch of Sniper Rifle Damage Models.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9190	Posted - 2014.06.07 21:47:00 - [1] - Quote Before I sprinkle my Rattai Bait over this, I wanted to see how the community viewed these changes. Sorry about taking so long, but I had some finals that grabbed my attention away from this. You can view the spreadsheet here. Now before everyone sullies their pants at the damage models, I wanted to put some notes on the logic behind these proposed damage models: [list] Normal Sniper Rifles should take 1 shot to kill a Light Frame, 2 Shots to kill a Medium Frame, and 3 Shots to kill a Heavy Frame (assuming equal tiers). The damage of the Charge Sniper Rifle is extremely high, but that is simply 2.1x the proposed damage of the Ishukone Sniper Rifle (which was done because the charge time is 2.1x that of the Ishukone Sniper Rifle). I'm also looking into clip size adjustments for the Sniper Rifle to balance this out. Tactical Sniper Rifles should take 2 Body Shots to kill a Light Frame, 3 Body Shots to kill a Medium Frame, and 4 Body Shots to kill a Sentinel. I am also looking into increased headshot multiplier to reward skillful usage of the Tactical Sniper Rifle (and other variants as well.. [list] I don't really see a problem with said logic (and apparently, 98 people don't either either); but feel free to tell me if there's anything wrong with these damage models, and how to improve them. -HAND Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9190	Posted - 2014.06.07 21:49:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved just in-case. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 533	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:05:00 - [3] - Quote So, with damage mods and a Cal Commando, a Charge Sniper Rifle will one shot any suit in the game? These numbers seem way too high. Snipers need a buff, but this seems like way too much when you add damage mods and proficiency skills. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14206	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:07:00 - [4] - Quote Charge sniper rifle here is absurdly overpowered. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10188	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:10:00 - [5] - Quote A. Prototype weaponry adds 10% to damage. B. As far as your logic, I don't agree with it. The redline + hit scan = Heck no It should require headshots to consistently kill, unless you do something about redline snipers. C. wtf charged sniper rifle Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9191	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:12:00 - [6] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, with damage mods and a Cal Commando, a Charge Sniper Rifle will one shot any suit in the game? These numbers seem way too high. Snipers need a buff, but this seems like way too much when you add damage mods and proficiency skills. Well, no; not exactly. My balance model is based around eHP without skills factored in. If I were to factor in Proficency and Caldari Commando skills, I would have to factor in skills that increase your HP (such as Dropsuit Shield Upgrades and Dropsuit Armor Upgrades), which allows for a 25% Shield and 25% armor increase; which wouldn't allow your scenario to come true. (Unless s/he's using a Charge of course) If you want to counter someone with max skills, you should max your skills as well. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Charge sniper rifle here is absurdly overpowered. I was thinking about reducing it's clip size to 1-2. I figured that it should have extreme alpha, but be hindered with high charge times and being forced to reload after every other shot. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 534	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:17:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, with damage mods and a Cal Commando, a Charge Sniper Rifle will one shot any suit in the game? These numbers seem way too high. Snipers need a buff, but this seems like way too much when you add damage mods and proficiency skills. Well, no; not exactly. My balance model is based around eHP without skills factored in. If I were to factor in Proficency and Caldari Commando skills, I would have to factor in skills that increase your HP (such as Dropsuit Shield Upgrades and Dropsuit Armor Upgrades), which allows for a 25% Shield and 25% armor increase; which wouldn't allow your scenario to come true. (Unless s/he's using a Charge of course) If you want to counter someone with max skills, you should max your skills as well. Right, I get that part. Just saying, a Cal Commando with Prof V would be doing 1005.64 DMG per body shot before adding damage mods. Ludicrous speed, GO! Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14207	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:17:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Charge sniper rifle here is absurdly overpowered. I was thinking about reducing it's clip size to 1-2. I figured that it should have extreme alpha, but be hindered with high charge times and being forced to reload after every other shot. That doesn't matter when everything dies in one shot. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3248	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:17:00 - [9] - Quote I'm fine with that I guess. Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
LegacyofTable Planetary Response Organisation FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 14	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:30:00 - [10] - Quote I can agree with the STD/ADV changes, but you hit PRO and it goes through the roof. Ishukone could be put down to 340 or so, and charge could go down to around 450 and I could get behind it. Licensed Thales Hunter Total Thales taken - 10

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9192	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:43:00 - [11] - Quote After taking a second look here, I will agree that the Charge Sniper Rifle's damage would be problematic. With that in mind, what does everyone thing about 475HP? It's enough to 2HK PRO Medium Frames, 3HK Sentinels, while still allowing 4.2s-6.3s before death (which is generous considering the current TTK of Conventional Rifles). Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15350	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:47:00 - [12] - Quote OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
LegacyofTable Planetary Response Organisation FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 14	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:48:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: After taking a second look here, I will agree that the Charge Sniper Rifle's damage would be problematic. With that in mind, what does everyone thing about 475HP? It's enough to 2HK PRO Medium Frames, 3HK Sentinels, while still allowing 4.2s-6.3s before death (which is generous considering the current TTK of Conventional Rifles). 100% behind it, but good luck getting Rattati to look at and consider it. (From what I see/hear on forums, they tend to overlook any changes to sniper rifles.) Licensed Thales Hunter Total Thales taken - 10
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9192	Posted - 2014.06.07 22:49:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. Which they are, unless your an un-tanked Light Frame. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9192	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:06:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: B. As far as your logic, I don't agree with it. The redline + hit scan = Heck no It should require headshots to consistently kill, unless you do something about redline snipers. So what your saying, is that Sniper Rifles should essentially be harder to use than other Weapons, therefore negating the appeal in using them over other weapons? Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14211	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:08:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: After taking a second look here, I will agree that the Charge Sniper Rifle's damage would be problematic. It's not just the charge. You're giving all of these rifles a 25-50% buff. That's a -huge- buff. Even if it were to be done it should be done in increments rather than just chucking out a massive change like that. See, here's the thing. Look at those maps. Of those, how many are almost entirely open maps? How many allow you to see a majority of the map from a single point? How many allow you to overlook a huge swathe of the map or an objective from either the redline? The answer is almost all of them. The Gallente Research Facility is the main map where you can't. The others that obstruct you a bit are entirely possible to get around - for example, on the orbital artillery map there are several vantage points which allow you line of sight on the A area without going anywhere near the main outpost. The projection of the sniper rifle is huge. That's fine - it should be. However, being able to project a huge amount of power over said huge area is not so fine, especially when as a role it's one of the lowest risk playstyles in the game. Quote: 4.2s-6.3s before death (which is generous considering the current TTK of Conventional Rifles). Okay, you're comparing the TTK of this rifle to that of a conventional rifle. A conventional rifle will take about half as long to kill those targets. An AR has 400 DPS, your charge SR model has about 200 (ignoring the upfront alpha potential, although that's a point in the SR's favour). The sniper has ten times the optimal range. That's not even an exaggeration - it literally has ten times the optimal. You're not actually going to be able to use that optimal, of course, but the fact of the matter is that it has a vastly longer range. The accuracy is also pinpoint. Let's go back to thinking about maps. This would mean that you can pin down anything on the map very effectively. Have two or three snipers? Anything can die immediately to the alpha damage. Any objective can be locked down except the ones in the research facility at that point. And that's assuming that everything is at proto tier on the enemy team. No pub team goes entirely proto. It just doesn't happen. Said people are extremely unlikely to continue to run proto when they're getting alphaed off the field. You're doing a low risk job - but you can very easily take out protosuits while continuing at low risk with these numbers. What if people aren't running proto? They get OHKO'd. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 803	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:09:00 - [17] - Quote The problem isn't sniper rifles... the problem is that damage from burst weaponry is too potent, this causes a need for better health modules (shield armor etc) which then results in snipers being forced lower and lower on the balance scales because of these things. As of right now, the only weapons that have a "fair fight" window are the scrambler rifle, and STD snipers. The damage output being too high and the armor stacking being too intense to counter the damage output practically forces snipers to be in a one-hit kill scenario for many medium and all light suits because the windows of functionality are being slammed shut by these problems. Fixing sniper rifles requires fixing all the other guns in the game, then the armor, and then, you can finally see how the alpha damage works... or was intended to work. One hit kills from such a range are not appropriate, unless they are headshots.. The only way I can think of to balance out damage without poking everything else might be to increase headshot damage taken by 2-4% for every armor or shield extender you have equipped. This would lead to other issues, unless it can be exclusive to sniper rifles. Why? This would effectively eliminate "tanking snipers" because their extra incoming head damage would offset the modules, and potentially make it not really worth it to hide and tank with a heavy suit, unless it was your preference. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust, theme
Michael Arck 4623	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:12:00 - [18] - Quote Yea 98 people don't have a problem till their heads get shot off. I see the scanner thing happening again. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15351	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:18:00 - [19] - Quote Reduce Range. Increase Damage. Adjust Magazine Size. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14212	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:22:00 - [20] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Reduce Range. This suggestion will be met by calls for crucifixion by some, and I don't really understand why. It prevents people from sitting in the redline (and gaining a very potent protective crutch) and abusing high powered weaponry, encourages people to go down into the combat zone to find better spots, and allows a higher reward for higher risk usage. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.

Michael Arck 4624	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:27:00 - [21] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Reduce Range. This suggestion will be met by calls for crucifixion by some, and I don't really understand why. It prevents people from sitting in the redline (and gaining a very potent protective crutch) and abusing high powered weaponry, encourages people to go down into the combat zone to find better spots, and allows a higher reward for higher risk usage. And that's what I am exactly afraid of Arkena when reading about the suggestions in the OP. Then it will be FOTM. Then they will complain. Then it will be changed again. Then I will look and wonder why we even wasted time playing with the thought. Reduced range sounds good but like you said, people will want to hang IWS for that. But who cares? It's only right and balanced. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1525	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:28:00 - [22] - Quote Why would you reduce range..... Its supost to be the longest ranged sniper.... Delt for CPM1 Moss-delt on skype
LegacyofTable Planetary Response Organisation FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 15	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:30:00 - [23] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Why would you reduce range..... Its supost to be the longest ranged sniper.... Probably because people are tired of redline snipers. Licensed Thales Hunter Total Thales taken - 10
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14212	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:31:00 - [24] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Why would you reduce range..... Its supost to be the longest ranged sniper.... Because the redline breaks any potential risk/reward balance, and the only thing having such a long range accomplishes is allowing people to sit deep in it whilst using a sniper. Reducing the range forces people out of the redline, increasing the risk and allowing reward (the effectiveness of the weapon) to be increased. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Michael Arck 4624	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:33:00 - [25] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Why would you reduce range..... Its supost to be the longest ranged sniper.... Indeed. But we must consider people who will just exploit it to ruin the gameplay of others. We all been here before. New thing introduced and everybody flocks in droves to it. Just imagine the battles! 6 or 8 mercs fighting over the objectives while the rest of the teams are fighting over headshots of the mercs who are fighting over the objective. It would impact the game in a negative way if range isn't reduced but the damage is increased. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Michael Arck 4624	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:36:00 - [26] - Quote Just a thought, if there is no range reduction and the damage increased. Then I would definitely like to see CCP Rattati's suggestion of the redline changes to compensate for this. CCP Rattati wrote: Honestly, I don't know what exactly can be done, so take this with a grain of salt. I would just want to not grant WP and kills instigating from within the redline. It could still be a safe haven to flee into or rearrange forces to breakout of the redline. EZ mode Thaling and Railing would be possible, just not rewarded in any way. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Your Absolut End Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 571	Posted - 2014.06.07 23:39:00 - [27] - Quote I'm totally against any changes on sniper rifles till redline sniping is fixed. I'm a big fan of a risk/reward system, so sitting in the redline with your thales in a heavy frame should not be rewarded AT ALL. No risk=no reward. I don't have a problem with snipers in general, as long as they have to take time and effort to find a tactical position OUTSIDE THE REDLINE.
Shley Ashes Commando Perkone Caldari State 154	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:02:00 - [28] - Quote This is a terrible idea whilst the redline is still where you find almost all snipers, If you could move these snipers out of the redline even then I'd personally have a hard time agreeing that snipers rifles need more damage unless you balanced accordingly, you could reduce the clip size dramatically and for the damage you want on the charge you would probably have to double if not triple the charge time because the damage coming out of that could be ridiculous. Snipers still kill people from the safety of the "Redline" until this is not the case, the sniper rifle's should stay as they are, I would even go as far to say that whilst they have that range and safety reduce their damage. When ALL snipers are in the combat area(burnzone?) with everyone else start discussing possible buffs. For 21 day EveOnline trial https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=0f1324bf-679c-420a-b7ed-c181423c1369&action=buddy
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9193	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:21:00 - [29] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Atiim wrote: After taking a second look here, I will agree that the Charge Sniper Rifle's damage would be problematic. It's not just the charge. You're giving all of these rifles a 25-50% buff. That's a -huge- buff. Even if it were to be done it should be done in increments rather than just chucking out a massive change like that. See, here's the thing. Look at those maps. Of those, how many are almost entirely open maps? How many allow you to see a majority of the map from a single point? How many allow you to overlook a huge swathe of the map or an objective from either the redline? The answer is almost all of them. The Gallente Research Facility is the main map where you can't. The others that obstruct you a bit are entirely possible to get around - for example, on the orbital artillery map there are several vantage points which allow you line of sight on the A area without going anywhere near the main outpost. The projection of the sniper rifle is huge. That's fine - it should be. However, being able to project a huge amount of power over said huge area is not so fine, especially when as a role it's one of the lowest risk playstyles in the game. There's no problem with the percentage of the buff as long as the values that result from the high percentage are reasonable. For example, let's take a weapon, and call it Weapon X. Weapon X only deals 5 damage per shot. In order to be competitive with other weapons, such as Weapon Y and Weapon Z, Weapon X needs to deal 15 damage per shot. Would you buff it to 15HP, despite that being a 300% buiff? As for a Sniper locking down an area, is that not their job? Area denial and suppression? I see no problem with a Sniper being able to lock down an area of the map, because there is nothing stoping someone from killing the enemy sniper locking down the map. If you refuse to take the measures necessary to counter someone, you deserve to be slaughtered by them repeatedly. Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Atiim wrote: 4.2s-6.3s before death (which is generous considering the current TTK of Conventional Rifles). Okay, you're comparing the TTK of this rifle to that of a conventional rifle. A conventional rifle will take about half as long to kill those targets. An AR has 400 DPS, your charge SR model has about 200 (ignoring the upfront alpha potential, although that's a point in the SR's favour). The sniper has ten times the optimal range. That's not even an exaggeration - it literally has ten times the optimal. You're not actually going to be able to use that optimal, of course, but the fact of the matter is that it has a vastly longer range. The accuracy is also pinpoint. Let's go back to thinking about maps. This would mean that you can pin down anything on the map very effectively. Have two or three snipers? Anything can die immediately to the alpha damage. Any objective can be locked down except the ones in the research facility at that point. And that's assuming that everything is at proto tier on the enemy team. No pub team goes entirely proto. It just doesn't happen. Said people are extremely unlikely to continue to run proto when they're getting alphaed off the field. You're doing a low risk job - but you can very easily take out protosuits while continuing at low risk with these numbers. What if people aren't running proto? They get OHKO'd. No, I'm not trying to compare them to Conventional Rifles. I'm putting emphasis on the fact that 4-6s is an extremely generous amount of time to avoid death. Should that not be the case? If a team or squad decides to dedicate 3 players to a task, should they not be extremely effective? Every other item/role (and i do mean every) becomes ridiculously effective when 3 or more players dedicate themselves to the same task; and I don't see why Snipers shouldn't be any different. Which again, isn't a problem because nothing stops you from hunting the sniper(s) and killing them, thus freeing the area/objective for you and your team. STD/ADV frames won't be OHKed either. A STD Assault Suit can easily 400 eHP (more than the proposed damage of the Ishukone Sniper Rifle). The only thing they could possibly be OHKed by is the Charge Sniper Rifle, and that's only if your running a STD Medium Frame or non-tanked Light Frame. Low Risk meaning what exactly? The only time Sniping could ever be considered "low risk" is when your either in the redline, or when your enemies refuse to search for you (which is in no way a problem). Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9193	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:22:00 - [30] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Just a thought, if there is no range reduction and the damage increased. Then I would definitely like to see CCP Rattati's suggestion of the redline changes to compensate for this. CCP Rattati wrote: Honestly, I don't know what exactly can be done, so take this with a grain of salt. I would just want to not grant WP and kills instigating from within the redline. It could still be a safe haven to flee into or rearrange forces to breakout of the redline. EZ mode Thaling and Railing would be possible, just not rewarded in any way. I agree with this. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND

dzizur 6 dayz 37	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:24:00 - [31] - Quote Maybe having sniper rifle shot trails visible a bit longer ? I also think that it would be nice if we could get a 3 variant of sniper rifle with much shorter range, less zoom and bit faster stabilization in ADS
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:34:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. Have you ever seen the damage a 50 cal weapon does? OHK should be a high percentage when a sniper shoots someone, certainly if they are shot in the head, the sheer inertia of the hit would likely snap the targets head. but that's ok tow CCPs line of not improving the sniper rifles. "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:40:00 - [33] - Quote LegacyofTable wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Why would you reduce range..... Its supost to be the longest ranged sniper.... Probably because people are tired of redline snipers. And what would be a sniper rifle discussion without redline trolls seriously I should be able to shoot out 1000m and resolve the targets 1000m away. Not going to have to deal with the redline issue if counter sniping can be done redline to redline. but I'm just dreaming (and I pretty much quit the game due to CCP failing to buff the sniper rifles) "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
JUDASisMYhomeboy III xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 52	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:54:00 - [34] - Quote I can see it now...After sniper rifle buff, entire squads of nyain san camped on redline in commando suits sitting on armor hives. I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1935	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:58:00 - [35] - Quote Too powerful when we consider the devs want the TTK high, and recent steps for certain weapons reflect this. No Sniper Rifle should OHK any suit with a body shot, not now or ever... I still find it distastful that a charge or thale with damage prof and/or mods can do this to basic militia suits. I do just fine with Sniper Rifles, our maps are so bloody big the weapon is powerful enough due to just the environment alone, unlike the claustrophobic maps of Phantom which I'm used to sniping in. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5182	Posted - 2014.06.08 01:53:00 - [36] - Quote You're forgetting the existence of commandos. Should be 1 shot for light frames, 2 shots for mediums, 3 for commandos, 4 for sentinels/heavies péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5182	Posted - 2014.06.08 01:58:00 - [37] - Quote Also on the poll results, 11% of people are lying bastards. Closed beta started roughly 2 years ago (if not later) and I'm not even sure sniper rifles were released until shortly after that. Could've checked, but the forum history got cut so I can no longer view the old patch notes. Either way, at the time of the poll, absolutely nobody has sniped for over 2 years, yet 11% of people said they did. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5182	Posted - 2014.06.08 02:03:00 - [38] - Quote Finally (spammin' yo thread), judging by the comments, many snipers are incredibly incompetent. They complain about excessive scope sway, yet it goes away in no time if you crouch- even faster if you're skilled into it. These guys trying to quickscope or what? péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 338	Posted - 2014.06.08 02:13:00 - [39] - Quote Good numbers, can just imagine what the thales would be
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1501	Posted - 2014.06.08 02:58:00 - [40] - Quote Atiim, shouldn't these be skill-shot weapons? Headshots for the win? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9202	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:05:00 - [41] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Atiim, shouldn't these be skill-shot weapons? Headshots for the win? Yes, they should, and will. Headshots and skillful use will still be rewarded in the sense that it'll grant you an OHK, which can be very critical in PC matches or when shooting "targets of interest ". Due to the size & shape of the reticule however, balancing around headshots would only be viable if you either use KB/M for sniping, or snipe in <150m of your targets; in which case a Rail Rifle would be of much better service. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1501	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:15:00 - [42] - Quote Atiim wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Atiim, shouldn't these be skill-shot weapons? Headshots for the win? Yes, they should, and will. Headshots and skillful use will still be rewarded in the sense that it'll grant you an OHK, which can be very critical in PC matches or when shooting "targets of interest ". Due to the size & shape of the reticule however, balancing around headshots would only be viable if you either use KB/M for sniping, or snipe in <150m of your targets; in which case a Rail Rifle would be of much better service. Hmmm. I mean no disrespect, but do you use Sniper Rifles and Rail Rifles? I'm Proficiency V in Rail Rifles and Proficiency III in Sniper Rifles; your statement above does not compute. If you've yet to consult subject matter experts on Sniping, I'd highly recommend getting in touch with Tyjus Vacca. o7 Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9203	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:40:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Hmmm. I mean no disrespect, but do you use Sniper Rifles or Rail Rifles? Though I claim no expertise, I'm Proficiency V in RR and III in SR and your statement above does not compute. If you've yet to consult a subject matter expert on Sniping, I'd highly recommend getting in touch with Tyjus Vacca. o7 Umm.. Both? Not too sure what the second part of your reply is referring too.. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15359	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:40:00 - [44] - Quote dzizur wrote: Maybe having sniper rifle shot trails visible a bit longer ? I also think that it would be nice if we could get a 3 variant of sniper rifle with much shorter range, less zoom and bit faster stabilization in ADS More likely has to do with the way dust 514 does things poorly; for example many pilots would claim they don't see swarms but know they been hit by them but as a third party everyone else can see the swarms. It is fairly common to not see bullets shot directly at you for some odd reason only the laser seems to be the only arsenal that consistently draws. I suspect this usually has to do with the source being drawn; if you cannot see the shooter being drawn then you cannot see the projectile at all. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10192	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:47:00 - [45] - Quote Strker Remorse wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. Have you ever seen the damage a 50 cal weapon does? OHK should be a high percentage when a sniper shoots someone, certainly if they are shot in the head, the sheer inertia of the hit would likely snap the targets neck. but that's ok tow CCPs line of not improving the sniper rifles. Have you ever seen what a bullet traveling at 7200m/s does? Like the Rail Rifle? Or how about superheated plasma fired at a rapid rate melting it's target? It's a game, comparing it to real life doesn't work. Go play Arma if you want realism. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15359	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:48:00 - [46] - Quote Strker Remorse wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. Have you ever seen the damage a 50 cal weapon does? OHK should be a high percentage when a sniper shoots someone, certainly if they are shot in the head, the sheer inertia of the hit would likely snap the targets neck. but that's ok tow CCPs line of not improving the sniper rifles. Game vs Reality Game play has several dozen reasons why such a massively long range sniper rifle should not OHK a very healthy player. Secondly; we're talking a ferrous beehive flechette round being shot out of a miniaturized railgun cannon. Impact Damage if at best is minimal vs the 50 cal. You are very very unlikely to break a guy's neck with such round at such velocities. Putting a hole clean through or blowing one entire side of the head out? Entirely possible. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9203	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:50:00 - [47] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Have you ever seen what a bullet traveling at 7200m/s does? Like the Rail Rifle? Or how about superheated plasma fired at a rapid rate melting it's target? It's a game, comparing it to real life doesn't work. Go play Arma if you want realism. It should also be mentioned that an 80GJ Railgun would quite level the entire map. Which then again, would be an effective way of dealing with the terrain issues. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14221	Posted - 2014.06.08 09:42:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: There's no problem with the percentage of the buff as long as the values that result from the high percentage are reasonable. For example, let's take a weapon, and call it Weapon X. Weapon X only deals 5 damage per shot. In order to be competitive with other weapons, such as Weapon Y and Weapon Z, Weapon X needs to deal 15 damage per shot. Would you buff it to 15HP, despite that being a 300% buiff? Nothing has ever needed a 50% buff to be competitive. Not even the plasma cannon got that much of a buff. The sniper rifle is not so incredibly poor that it needs such a ludicrous buff - such a high percentage would suggest that it's not as usable as the old plasma cannon, which is completely untrue. Snipers are still in fairly common usage. I ran a sniping squad just yesterday and had great success because almost every map is absolutely perfect for sniping. Domination maps in particular are subject to easy mode sniping as everyone gets concentrated around a single point - which is often in open ground. Quote: As for a Sniper locking down an area, is that not their job? Area denial and suppression? I see no problem with a Sniper being able to lock down an area of the map, because there is nothing stoping someone from killing the enemy sniper locking down the map. If you refuse to take the measures necessary to counter someone, you deserve to be slaughtered by them repeatedly. Suppressing an area a bit? Yes. Rendering a very large area completely unusable for enemy infantry? No. I like how you go on about countering snipers all the time as well. Okay, here's how I'd run a squad if there were insane sniping numbers. Two breach forgers. They can sit in the redline. Four charge snipers. They can sit in assorted positions behind the redline. How do you counter this? ADS? Nope, dead. Snipers? Something being the only counter to itself is inherently broken. The redline protects from a huge number of threats - while snipers can remain in the redline and keep their risk so low, they shouldn't get a huge reward. Quote: No, I'm not trying to compare them to Conventional Rifles. I'm putting emphasis on the fact that 4-6s is an extremely generous amount of time to avoid death. It's not even 4-6s though. Your proposed Ishukone will kill almost everything in three shots or less - three seconds or less. The charge sniper has such an alpha damage if you don't OHKO you get massive alpha, and then two seconds later you can deliver the killing shot. The Kaalakiota will probably take four or fewer. You're getting kills in similar amounts of time to conventional rifles. Quote: Should that not be the case? If a team or squad decides to dedicate 3 players to a task, should they not be extremely effective? Every other item/role (and i do mean every) becomes ridiculously effective when 3 or more players dedicate themselves to the same task; and I don't see why Snipers shouldn't be any different. Which again, isn't a problem because nothing stops you from hunting the sniper(s) and killing them, thus freeing the area/objective for you and your team. Extremely effective to the point where they can completely prevent any player on the enemy team outside of a tank from going anywhere? No. The redline prevents you from going and killing the snipers. Quite effectively, I might add - snipers and ADSes are the only things which can really tackle deep redline snipers. Quote: STD/ADV frames won't be OHKed either. A STD Assault Suit can easily 400 eHP (more than the proposed damage of the Ishukone Sniper Rifle). The only thing they could possibly be OHKed by is the Charge Sniper Rifle, and that's only if your running a STD Medium Frame or non-tanked Light Frame. Low Risk meaning what exactly? The only time Sniping could ever be considered "low risk" is when your either in the redline, or when your enemies refuse to search for you (which is in no way a problem). A 400 eHP assault would be OHKOed by the Ishukone if the user wasn't wielding it raw, with no proficiencies or damage mods or commando bonuses, which is unlikely. Actually, the Ishukone would likely OHKO said assault because of the skew towards armour damage, and chances are that assault has more HP in armour than shields. A triple damage modded commando would be hitting nearly 500 a shot with an Ishukone, disregarding proficiency bonuses against armour. That'll OHKO a lot of ADV frames unless they're bricked to high heaven - if they are, it'll take a double tap, which will take about a second. More DPS than a conventional rifle, except being able to deal that with pinpoint accuracy from miles away when most maps are hugely open? Yeah, there's a problem there. Low risk meaning you are less likely to die. Suggesting that it's not low-risk is untrue - the probability of dying is much lower than infantry attempting to contest an objective. Sniping from towers or the redline reduces that risk further - but even if you're not, the risk of death is lower than in most other roles. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1320	Posted - 2014.06.08 13:21:00 - [49] - Quote How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim.
Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 997	Posted - 2014.06.08 14:27:00 - [50] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Reduce Range. This suggestion will be met by calls for crucifixion by some, and I don't really understand why. It prevents people from sitting in the redline (and gaining a very potent protective crutch) and abusing high powered weaponry, encourages people to go down into the combat zone to find better spots, and allows a higher reward for higher risk usage. snipers are sitting targets, maybe if the scope didn't take up 100% of the screen and it didn't sway like a bch when standing up and sniping, they would be much better and range wouldn't even matter.

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9223	Posted - 2014.06.08 14:45:00 - [51] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim. Hmm... Perhaps it's because not everyone has a Thale's TAR-07 and the Charge Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only viable sniper rifle? Or maybe it's because in the average engagement range the reticule is bigger than the target, making headshots far more difficult than they should be on DS3? Being able to get kills only when hitting the weakspot of the target wasn't a good idea/argument when tankers used it, and for reasons I've mentioned in the past it isn't a good one now. Dare I say people are starting to resort to 'Tanker's Logic' in this thread? Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Current Goal: Caldari Medium Dropsuits III -HAND
Grimmiers 577	Posted - 2014.06.08 15:01:00 - [52] - Quote I don't snipe much, but I know the range is a bit too high when compared to the current railgun turrets. A handheld rifle probably shouldn't be shooting more than a mounted gun. 300 meters max with either a higher headshot modifier or a slight damage increase would be better. The damages you put there are too high.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3418	Posted - 2014.06.08 15:23:00 - [53] - Quote So I agree that a light frame should take one shot, a medium two and a heavy three (although really I'd prefer 1.5, 2.5 and 4 when actually tanked, which those numbers don't seem to be requiring). I bet a lot of people feel that way. But killing with a bodyshot? That's ridiculous. Completely and utterly ridiculous. Sniping is literally the lowest-risk playstyle in the game at the moment. Yes, I include tanking there. It is practically impossible to track down a competent sniper, and when you have a 20s cap on looking for them it makes it even harder. You assert that it's higher risk than other playstyles, but I have to say this: were I sniping there wouldn't be anyone able to shoot me within 250m. I would make a point of that, and my 600m range cap would make that easy. If I'm killing people with my rifle, it is highly likely that there is at least one person inside 50-100m whose location is unknown. That person can kill me approximately as quickly as I can kill him. I'm going to leave on this note: there is a reason that when you put uplinks on a tower all the newberries switch to the same suit. BlowoutForCPM
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3418	Posted - 2014.06.08 15:32:00 - [54] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim. Hmm... Perhaps it's because not everyone has a Thale's TAR-07 and the Charge Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only viable sniper rifle? Or maybe it's because in the average engagement range the reticule is bigger than the target, making headshots far more difficult than they should be on DS3? Being able to get kills only when hitting the weakspot of the target wasn't a good idea/argument when tankers used it, and for reasons I've mentioned in the past it isn't a good one now. Dare I say people are starting to resort to 'Tanker's Logic' in this thread? So the right response to these issues is to buff the ever loving Christ out of them? Seems like you're totally barking up the wrong tree here. BlowoutForCPM
Spartykins Militaires Sans Jeux 69	Posted - 2014.06.08 16:16:00 - [55] - Quote I've said this once before in another thread, but I'll repeat it here. There's no way we can really balance snipers when we still have areas in the map that isn't accessible to infantry. We just can't. (Insert witty phrase here)
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1324	Posted - 2014.06.08 16:26:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim. Hmm... Perhaps it's because not everyone has a Thale's TAR-07 and the Charge Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only viable sniper rifle? Or maybe it's because in the average engagement range the reticule is bigger than the target, making headshots far more difficult than they should be on DS3? Being able to get kills only when hitting the weakspot of the target wasn't a good idea/argument when tankers used it, and for reasons I've mentioned in the past it isn't a good one now. Dare I say people are starting to resort to 'Tanker's Logic' in this thread? If by 'Tanker's Logic' you mean 'I should deal massive damage to all infantry from massive distances by spraying in their general direction, while being invulnerable to anything except another [tank/sniper]', I agree...
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 490	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:24:00 - [57] - Quote Currently, sniper rifles have situational use. They are very effective when people are camping the tops of structures. This ability should be retained. However, they are also hitscan easymode weapons, with what amounts to a random chance at successful headshots on a controller. Any buff would require them to not be hitscan and buffing headshots would just make them extremely random. Headshots already OHK many players. And, seriously, OHKs? Are you drunk? If the rilfes were buffed like that, I'd cram out my proto sniper fit and murder everyone for the entire match. After a week the last few remaining players would disappear - At least tanks gave you the feeling that you might be able to fight back and actually allowed you to capture the objectives. Try doing that when each team has ten snipers. Each match would end from clone depletion with uncapped objectives and we'd lose even more players. Do you even know how frustrating that would be? It's already obnoxious enough to constantly die from random attacks from fuckall nowhere. Currently, sniper rifles are flat-out broken and buffing them would just ruin the game even more than it already is.
Foo Fighting THE HANDS OF DEATH 74	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:31:00 - [58] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Unless said snipers are complete mouthbreathers This gets my vote for the funniest phrase ever written on the forums.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14255	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:34:00 - [59] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Unless said snipers are complete mouthbreathers This gets my vote for the funniest phrase ever written on the forums. Help me bring it into common usage. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Foo Fighting THE HANDS OF DEATH 74	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:51:00 - [60] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Unless said snipers are complete mouthbreathers This gets my vote for the funniest phrase ever written on the forums. Help me bring it into common usage. Oh I'm gunna try. It immediately made me think of a fat wheezy kid I knew who was always last to get picked for school sports day.

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9232	Posted - 2014.06.08 18:00:00 - [61] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: If by 'Tanker's Logic' you mean 'I should deal massive damage to all infantry by spraying in their general direction from hundreds of metres away, while being invulnerable to anything except another [tank/sniper]', I agree... No by 'Tanker's Logic' I mean "An [AVer/Sniper] should be forced to shoot me in the [fuel cell/head] if they want a kill". Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Current Goal: Caldari Medium Dropsuits III -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9232	Posted - 2014.06.08 18:30:00 - [62] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: So the right response to these issues is to buff the ever loving Christ out of them? Seems like you're totally barking up the wrong tree here. Essentially, yes. Based on a survey taken by 98 players, a Sniper Rifle needs to 1HK Light Frames, 2HK Medium Frames, and 3HK Heavy Frames. This damage model will bring that to a reality. Those issues aren't ever going to be addressed in DUST 514 anyways. Sole Fenychs wrote: Currently, sniper rifles have situational use. They are very effective when people are camping the tops of structures. This ability should be retained. However, they are also hitscan easymode weapons, with what amounts to a random chance at successful headshots on a controller. Any buff would require them to not be hitscan and buffing headshots would just make them extremely random. Headshots already OHK many players. And, seriously, OHKs? Are you drunk? If the rilfes were buffed like that, I'd cram out my proto sniper fit and murder everyone for the entire match. After a week the last few remaining players would disappear - At least tanks gave you the feeling that you might be able to fight back and actually allowed you to capture the objectives. Try doing that when each team has ten snipers. Each match would end from clone depletion with uncapped objectives and we'd lose even more players. Do you even know how frustrating that would be? It's already obnoxious enough to constantly die from random attacks from fuckall nowhere. Currently, sniper rifles are flat-out broken and buffing them would just ruin the game even more than it already is. 75% (80% if you include the SL's homing feature as "hitscan") of the weapons in this game are "hit-scan easy mode weapons". I don't see a problem with Sniper Rifles being a part of the 75% and you haven't supplied a good reason as to why they shouldn't be. Not to mention that removing it's hit-scan feature requires a client-side update, which is not a possibility. "Something being extremely random" is not a reason as to why something shouldn't be buffed, but okay. Though I may be guilty of misinterpreting that part. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Unless your fighting an un-tanked Light Frame, you won't be OHK'ing anything. You may want to take a look at the actual damage model before replying. Though if the hostile team has 10 snipers, you should make an effort to kill the 10 snipers. It wouldn't even be remotely frustrating if you know where to find the sniper, which again is not a problem. Sniper Rifles aren't any more broken than any other niche weapon in DUST 514. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Current Goal: Caldari Medium Dropsuits III -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14261	Posted - 2014.06.08 18:45:00 - [63] - Quote Atiim wrote: 75% (80% if you include the SL's homing feature as "hitscan") of the weapons in this game are "hit-scan easy mode weapons". I don't see a problem with Sniper Rifles being a part of the 75% and you haven't supplied a good reason as to why they shouldn't be. Not to mention that removing it's hit-scan feature requires a client-side update, which is not a possibility. SL isn't anything even remotely like hitscan, do you even know what hitscan is? The problem is that you are suggesting SRs which are hitscan, have a 600m range (enough to hit anywhere on the map), huge power projection, able to be used from the highly protective redline, and that are able to either OHKO or kill targets as quick or quicker than conventional rifles. Theoretical (and entirely plausible situation): You have a Calmando with a Ishukone SR. Said SR will now do over 400 damage per shot. A double tap from this will kill anything that isn't a tanked heavy. You see a target. You fire a shot. First shot done. How long does the target have to react before they get killed by the follow-up? One second. Given the up-front alpha potential, this SR is doing more DPS than a 1.7 boundless combat rifle. From several hundred metres away. With pinpoint accuracy. You only need a body shot to get the kills. You can do this from the redline and still have an overview of the majority of the map. From there, the only things that can counter you are other snipers or vehicles. Do you honestly not see the problem with this? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9232	Posted - 2014.06.08 18:52:00 - [64] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Because the redline breaks any potential risk/reward balance, and the only thing having such a long range accomplishes is allowing people to sit deep in it whilst using a sniper. Reducing the range forces people out of the redline, increasing the risk and allowing reward (the effectiveness of the weapon) to be increased. However reducing the range of the Sniper Rifle runs the risk of eliminating vantage points outside of the redline. I prefer CCP Ratatti's solution, as it removes the reward in redline sniping, causing you to risk your life if you want a reward; which will solve the risk/reward problem of redline sniping, while also allowing Snipers to keep their range. Though this could easily be abused by simply sniping right outside the redline, then jumping back into it when in danger. A simple solution to this would be making the the WP loss area spread over an area slightly past the redline. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Current Goal: Caldari Medium Dropsuits III -HAND
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1593	Posted - 2014.06.08 19:07:00 - [65] - Quote Only headshot multiplyers and zoom levels need changing.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9232	Posted - 2014.06.08 19:08:00 - [66] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: SL isn't anything even remotely like hitscan, do you even know what hitscan is? The problem is that you are suggesting SRs which are hitscan, have a 600m range (enough to hit anywhere on the map), huge power projection, able to be used from the highly protective redline, and that are able to either OHKO or kill targets as quick or quicker than conventional rifles. Theoretical (and entirely plausible situation): You have a Calmando with a Ishukone SR. Said SR will now do over 400 damage per shot. A double tap from this will kill anything that isn't a tanked heavy. You see a target. You fire a shot. First shot done. How long does the target have to react before they get killed by the follow-up? One second. Given the up-front alpha potential, this SR is doing more DPS than a 1.7 boundless combat rifle. From several hundred metres away. With pinpoint accuracy. You only need a body shot to get the kills. You can do this from the redline and still have an overview of the majority of the map. From there, the only things that can counter you are other snipers or vehicles. Do you honestly not see the problem with this? Yes, I know what "hitscan" is. It's a weapon that's projectile has no travel time, as it's hit is "registered" instantaneously. I see no problem with being killed with a double tap, with the 1s reaction time. Not only is the human reaction time much faster than 1s, a suit that's not a Sentinel can easily strafe, hop, and/or jump to cover to avoid shots from the Sniper Rifle, preventing them from being killed by a follow-up shot. The only foreseeable problem I agree with here is the redline, and there are several solutions to that problem. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Current Goal: Caldari Medium Dropsuits III -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14266	Posted - 2014.06.08 19:15:00 - [67] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yes, I know what "hitscan" is. It's a weapon that's projectile has no travel time, as it's hit is "registered" instantaneously. I see no problem with being killed with a double tap, with the 1s reaction time. Not only is the human reaction time much faster than 1s, a suit that's not a Sentinel can easily strafe, hop, and/or jump to cover to avoid shots from the Sniper Rifle, preventing them from being killed by a follow-up shot. The only foreseeable problem I agree with here is the redline, and there are several solutions to that problem. You see no problem with a faster TTK than HMGs? Really? Perhaps we should undo all the rifle nerfs then. Hell, give them buffs. If 1s TTK is alright for a weapon that can project across entire maps with minimal risk to the user, then clearly everything else is horrendously underpowered. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 90	Posted - 2014.06.08 19:55:00 - [68] - Quote hello boys and girls are we sitting comfortably? then i'll begin..... first of all everybody here is speaking about having a problem with charge rifles, ishukone rifles (oddly enough no mention of the kal, anybody else read anything into that?). that is really great.. heres the rub, they are proto weapons. other weapon types generally are brought into pc at proto level with the majority of players saving their proto gear to be a decent player for their corp. i see no reason that the proto sniper should be any different. if this were the case the expense of the rifle not it's capabillities should reflect its "low risk" play style eg if a rifle costs 10 mill then people cant afford to keep throwing them at pub matches. in turn this means that the advanced tier weapons should be the weapons that are selected for pub matches, now look again at attim's table, i ask you what is the problem? 2nd point. you can't keep punishing every player that picks up a sniper rifle in this game for no real reason, everybody seems to completely overlook the fact that to be competitive against advanced suits a sniper has to use maximum damage at the moment, we have no "p.c fit" as we need those to be decent in a pub match. ok the red line is an issue for players but this is because people at the moment have no real need to deal with snipers unless you get a good sniper against you they're not a threat they are an inconvenience, people can shoot into the red line easily enough and as for them not being vulnerable, don't even get me started on ads pilots. snipers do not wish to be stuck in the red lines all the time as i have pointed out more than once WE do not ask for a red line at all! yes we use distance as a shield, we are supposed to, there would be no point to using a sniper rifle inside a building when a shotgun will do better. all we actually ask for and ask for regularly (with regards to position) is for more vantage points INSIDE the map, NOT the red line. not our fault ccp saw fit to create bowl shaped maps. you cant blame a sniper for using high spots on a map when they provide the best view and therefore the best way of attacking the enemies. 3rd point. you say about how snipers are low risk... ok if these changes came about then how many people would suddenly decide that maybe our squad should go and deal with the enemy sniper because he has a charge rifle in much the same way as people hunt a thales user now after a buff like this? i would guess that although the rifles do more damage most snipers would start to get less kills. 4th point people on here keep mentioning about a calmando sniper with three damage mods. this should NOT be the base of damage for sniper rifles, this is the absolute of sniping!! you are actually saying here that a sniper should have NO options when creating their suit. how you people expect a sniper to decide to come and play in the easily reached places of the map, with weapons that don't kill using suits with no shield or armour modules astounds me.. i think this attitude is absolutely disgraceful. no other player type gets forced to use 1 set fit in order to play the game, what happened to the notion of the game being fun for everybody? not everybody enjoys running around with assault rifles, i am starting to enjoy my heavy fit (cal sentinel, squishy as hell!) but i will always prefer sniping, not only in dust either and not only against other players, it has nothing to do with cowardice (it's not like I'm actually being shot is it?!) or even gun game (this weekend i had my best heavy round so far of 39-15-6 in an advanced sentinel, i don't have proto yet.) also damage mods are a bonus that are chosen and skilled into separately to anything else, and as such should not be taken into account when calculating damage for a weapon. 5th point. I have actually for a little while been saying that the main thing sniper rifles need is a head shot boost i still am of that opinion. that said i have taken part in the survey and seen the opinions of others and this is what was asked for above all else, at the moment there is no way that people can HONESTLY say that any sniper rifles other than the charge or thales are in a good place, and even those aren't in a good place for p.c battles. overall i would say that these changes are not that bad, ok they may seem as though they are ott but you should remember that sniper rifles haven't been touched directly for at least a year. whilst almost everything else has gone through changes that have consistently effected them negatively. you should also consider that proto rifles should be usable in p.c battles and that a sniper using them has already gone as far as possible with their sp into the role they choose. these changes would allow snipers more freedom in what to use and allow them to start using their proto weapons where they should be used. there would need to be changes to the cost of rifles to make most snipers not want to throw them away, and i would also say an advanced model charge variant should be introduced too. and as i already mentioned people will target a sniper that brings a full proto fit out to pub matches as they will too much of a threat to ignore. that should be the case as it is with almost all other support type role in the game. (you would not stand toe to toe out in the open against a fully upgraded tank!) with regards to the red line. until there are some major changes with map design and red line function there will be problems with*(not just) snipers in the red line. but that should not be an excuse from other snipers being able to get a place in their pc battle or being able to play competitively with more than one fit
Guiltless D667 37	Posted - 2014.06.08 20:16:00 - [69] - Quote Wow i cant imagine what a thale will hit A Strange Game.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3427	Posted - 2014.06.09 00:18:00 - [70] - Quote Increase headshot bonus in line with ScP. Fix hit detection. Add a 1m timer to friendly redline. (? Not so sure about that one). Should be sorted. BlowoutForCPM

Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5190	Posted - 2014.06.09 01:13:00 - [71] - Quote Biggest issue: Dumbasses that think the sniper rifle is a role in itself. It's not. It's a weapon. It can be used for area denial. It can be used for sneaky-sneaking. "sniper" is not a role, just like "laser rifle" and "shotgun" are not roles. For the record, "slayer" is not a role either. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1329	Posted - 2014.06.09 14:32:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Rattati, in rifle discussion in features section wrote: 3) And finally make sure that there is a trade off of range versus dps This is the start and end of any discussion about sniper rifle damage output.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 93	Posted - 2014.06.09 19:38:00 - [73] - Quote "sniper" is not a role, just like "laser rifle" and "shotgun" are not roles. For the record, "slayer" is not a role either.[/quote] I think you'll find that "sniper" is in fact a very important military profession if you want to be pedantic "laser rifles, combat rifles, etc" are actually weapons and people are not referring to the "sniper rifle" as a role. you would also be able to say that in dust there are no "roles" as people can put skill into what they like in any type of order without being restricted by any type of "role" restrictions. however that doesn't change much within in the scope of this conversation. and once again I wonder whether people would care to venture opinions of the actual aspects related to the sniper rifles instead of just having a little bash at snipers. example. "the thales will now do too much damage" a valid concern about the power of a weapon that would in theory be affected. my best idea here would be to more or less leave the thales alone. it shouldn't do as much damage as the charge rifle at the same time as having a tactical scope anyway, this would place it just above proto tac rifles. "snipers will use the red line too much" not really valid in the topic... by which I mean they already do and an increase in damage won't make much of a difference to that, incidentally reducing the damage they do would also push the few that stayed sniping to do it from the red line due to being ineffective at closer range anyway. "You cannot justify a buff of x%" A valid point it has regards to the proposed changes. (already stated my opinion above). "reducing range according to damage" I disagree but it is valid it raises points about the extra damage in proportion to being further away. "reducing range to stop snipers hiding in the red line" Sorry but not valid, has no relation to proposed changes. and as snipers are not the only things that hide in the red line this should also be the case for vehicles.. i.e ads can escape swarms by actually outrunning them therefore they use distance as protection, they regularly back off to their red area to hide, and therefore shouldn't be as powerful as they are, also red line rail tanks, also turrets within red zones, also blaster tanks with armour or shield hardeners that will start a hardener to cover their escape to guess where? point being it is not the problem being addressed here. feel free to comment, but please try to be constructive folks. you may not like snipers but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be allowed to enjoy whole aspects of the game. I do not like tanks, ads, shotty scouts, remote explosives or heavies that are better than me at being heavy when I do it! but I do not believe any of them should be removed or kept down to a point where they could not be any use in a p.c battle.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9269	Posted - 2014.06.09 19:41:00 - [74] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: CCP Rattati, in rifle discussion in features section wrote: 3) And finally make sure that there is a trade off of range versus dps This is the start and end of any discussion about sniper rifle damage output. He was referring to Conventional Rifles. If you feel that the same principle applies to niche rifles, then I'd expect you to capmaign for a Laser Rifle nerf as well considering how it out-ranges most Anti-Infantry Weapons, and has a DPS higher than nearly all of them. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. I've run out of stuff to spec into :( -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14323	Posted - 2014.06.09 19:49:00 - [75] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: CCP Rattati, in rifle discussion in features section wrote: 3) And finally make sure that there is a trade off of range versus dps This is the start and end of any discussion about sniper rifle damage output. He was referring to Conventional Rifles. If you feel that the same principle applies to niche rifles, then I'd expect you to capmaign for a Laser Rifle nerf as well considering how it out-ranges most Anti-Infantry Weapons, and has a DPS higher than nearly all of them. Right, so because a weapon is 'niche' it should be completely exempt from any concept of balance and should instead kill everything from a few hundred metres away faster than a heavy machine gun will kill at 10m. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9269	Posted - 2014.06.09 20:14:00 - [76] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Right, so because a weapon is 'niche' it should be completely exempt from any concept of balance and should instead kill everything from a few hundred metres away faster than a heavy machine gun will kill at 10m. No, not really. The TTK of an HMG lies at about .5-1s for anything other than another Heavy frame due to it having a DPS of 700HP/s (at STD); while: A STD Gallente Assault can reach 623 eHP; resulting in a 3s TTK A STD Amarr Assault can reach 503 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK A STD Minmatar Assault can reach 444 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK A STD Caldari Assault can reach 467 eHP, resulting in a 2s TTK ((Assuming STD Suit vs. STD Sniper Rifle)) And those are simply the Assault suits running around with Basic HP modules with no core skills invested (not that core HP skills should be a factor when balancing weapons). I'm sure the TTK would be much higher on Logistics Frames, which have a higher slot count and the ability to add more eHP than it's Assault/Basic Frame counterparts. That's not faster, that's actually twice the time it would take for the HMG to kill the target. 266 DPS is extremely generous when you consider the TTK of every other weapon in the game, and the fact that every other weapon in the game besides the Plasma Cannon has an extremely higher DPS than the SR would under this model. Even the fluxing Flaylock and Ion Pistols, regarded as some of the most UP weapons in the game will still out-DPS the Sniper Rifle. (Not attempting to compare the sidearms to the SR, just placing emphasis on why it's DPS will not be a problem). Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. I've run out of stuff to spec into :( -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14324	Posted - 2014.06.09 20:43:00 - [77] - Quote Atiim wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Right, so because a weapon is 'niche' it should be completely exempt from any concept of balance and should instead kill everything from a few hundred metres away faster than a heavy machine gun will kill at 10m. No, not really. The TTK of an HMG lies at about .5-1s for anything other than another Heavy frame due to it having a DPS of 700HP/s (at STD); while: A STD Gallente Assault can reach 623 eHP; resulting in a 3s TTK A STD Amarr Assault can reach 503 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK A STD Minmatar Assault can reach 444 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK A STD Caldari Assault can reach 467 eHP, resulting in a 2s TTK The SR's damage is front loaded. You will fire one shot, then fire the second later. Because of the alpha damage, that means a DPS spike (if we're looking at it purely in terms of DPS). Let me fix that table for you. A STD Gallente Assault can reach 623 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK A STD Amarr Assault can reach 503 eHP; resulting in a 1s TTK A STD Minmatar Assault can reach 444 eHP; resulting in a 1s TTK A STD Caldari Assault can reach 467 eHP, resulting in a 1s TTK A fully bricked standard assault suit will die in one second to your proposed standard sniper. Hey, let's take this to proto: When absolutely, fully bricked, all complex tanking modules in every slot vs a properly set up Ishukone SR, you get the following. Let's ignore the fact that absolutely nobody including the worst of bads fits this way because you can't fit anything else at all if you spend that much PG/CPU on tank for now. A correctly set up Ishukone SR under your proposed numbers can hit upwards of 450, ignoring proficiency and armour bonuses (it's worth noting that this would OHKO all but the Galassault if used against those if we applied those conditions, becoming a ludicrously efficient pubstomping tool). A PRO Gallente assault can reach 1224 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK (When set up like this, by the way, it can't actually fit a weapon and is over maximum fitting requirements). A PRO Amarr assault can reach 1113 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK A PRO Caldari assault can reach 1148 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK (also can't fit anything else) A PRO Minmatar assault can reach 1016 eHP; resulting in a 2s TTK How fast will the HMG kill these? In a shade under two seconds, generally. -If- every round hits, which simply doesn't happen with the HMG spread. If those suits aren't bricked to the absolute maximum? A number of common proto fits will drop down to 1s TTK. That ends up faster than the HMG at those levels because of the alpha damage you're putting out. Comparable TTK to a HMG on a weapon that can cover half the map? Do you seriously believe that's reasonable? On probably the lowest risk role in the game second only to the redline railtank? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
manboar thunder fist SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 52	Posted - 2014.06.09 21:09:00 - [78] - Quote -1 I love sniping, i do! Honestly! But the last thing we need are 600 metre snipers one shotting proto suits beyond render distance! This is absurd NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 93	Posted - 2014.06.10 14:54:00 - [79] - Quote @ arkena, thanks for a well thought out point. I would just like to point out that something that happens with sniping in terms of time to kill is the whole 'stalker' hunting effect, I mean that it takes time to find a target then wait to line up a shot, charge up and then wait for the kick to settle down, then charging and lining up and another shot on the same target who now knows it's being shot at takes more time than the first shot did, much more so if you try for headshots. also when the target gets cover following that first shot you either take time to track the target or find a new one. time to kill using a sniper rifle isn't quite the same as being a heavy for example, as a heavy its you find a target, point your gun and fire there's some strafing to help be the person that kills the other player after that you move on or respawn. there is no following a target that has been spotted within range or waiting for a better shot. point being that for other rifles the ttk is directly affected by rof and damage output, for a sniper damage output and rof are important but there are other factors too. not saying that the buffs are exactly right, etc. just pointing out its not quite just a matter of the time it takes between shots. even on a ohk there's a high chance that the sniper spent a good few seconds tracking the target before firing. Again even more so when factoring in headshots.
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 16	Posted - 2014.06.10 18:28:00 - [80] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: I don't snipe much. then you really should sit down son while your elders talk, maybe you'll learn som'thin "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."

five times Liverpool F.C. 0	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:17:00 - [81] - Quote range should stay the same damage should stay the same, maybe increase headshot multiplier to 200% the damage mods proposed by the op should be applied ONLY if the target is within 300 metres of the sniper or encourage risk for reward by having a sliding scale, eg: target 500m+ away, damage remains same (headshot 200%) target 400m to 499m away, 5% damage increase (headshot 210%) target 300m to 399m away, 10% damage increase (headshot 220%) target 1m to 299m away, 20% damage increase (headshot 250%) for me theres no need to increase base damage, i would keep it simple, leave everything the same except change 2 things: 1) swap the clip size of charge and tactical rifles 2) increase headshot multiplier to 250%
Dusters Blog Galactic News Network 754	Posted - 2014.06.10 23:07:00 - [82] - Quote k Stay tuned for the largest community project ever! The Legion Whiteboard. Email us here: [email protected]
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1910	Posted - 2014.06.10 23:24:00 - [83] - Quote What happened to a sniper lighting up like a Christmas tree when they fire? The couple of months before Uprising that I played seemed to do that. That seems a fair mechanic to bring back better rifle damage. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!


Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

BlowoutForCPM

BlowoutForCPM

BlowoutForCPM