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Rough Sketch of Sniper Rifle Damage Models.

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dzizur 6 dayz 37	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:24:00 - [31] - Quote Maybe having sniper rifle shot trails visible a bit longer ? I also think that it would be nice if we could get a 3 variant of sniper rifle with much shorter range, less zoom and bit faster stabilization in ADS
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:34:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. Have you ever seen the damage a 50 cal weapon does? OHK should be a high percentage when a sniper shoots someone, certainly if they are shot in the head, the sheer inertia of the hit would likely snap the targets head. but that's ok tow CCPs line of not improving the sniper rifles. "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 13	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:40:00 - [33] - Quote LegacyofTable wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Why would you reduce range..... Its supost to be the longest ranged sniper.... Probably because people are tired of redline snipers. And what would be a sniper rifle discussion without redline trolls seriously I should be able to shoot out 1000m and resolve the targets 1000m away. Not going to have to deal with the redline issue if counter sniping can be done redline to redline. but I'm just dreaming (and I pretty much quit the game due to CCP failing to buff the sniper rifles) "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
JUDASisMYhomeboy III xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 52	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:54:00 - [34] - Quote I can see it now...After sniper rifle buff, entire squads of nyain san camped on redline in commando suits sitting on armor hives. I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1935	Posted - 2014.06.08 00:58:00 - [35] - Quote Too powerful when we consider the devs want the TTK high, and recent steps for certain weapons reflect this. No Sniper Rifle should OHK any suit with a body shot, not now or ever... I still find it distastful that a charge or thale with damage prof and/or mods can do this to basic militia suits. I do just fine with Sniper Rifles, our maps are so bloody big the weapon is powerful enough due to just the environment alone, unlike the claustrophobic maps of Phantom which I'm used to sniping in. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5182	Posted - 2014.06.08 01:53:00 - [36] - Quote You're forgetting the existence of commandos. Should be 1 shot for light frames, 2 shots for mediums, 3 for commandos, 4 for sentinels/heavies péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5182	Posted - 2014.06.08 01:58:00 - [37] - Quote Also on the poll results, 11% of people are lying bastards. Closed beta started roughly 2 years ago (if not later) and I'm not even sure sniper rifles were released until shortly after that. Could've checked, but the forum history got cut so I can no longer view the old patch notes. Either way, at the time of the poll, absolutely nobody has sniped for over 2 years, yet 11% of people said they did. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5182	Posted - 2014.06.08 02:03:00 - [38] - Quote Finally (spammin' yo thread), judging by the comments, many snipers are incredibly incompetent. They complain about excessive scope sway, yet it goes away in no time if you crouch- even faster if you're skilled into it. These guys trying to quickscope or what? péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 338	Posted - 2014.06.08 02:13:00 - [39] - Quote Good numbers, can just imagine what the thales would be
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1501	Posted - 2014.06.08 02:58:00 - [40] - Quote Atiim, shouldn't these be skill-shot weapons? Headshots for the win? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9202	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:05:00 - [41] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Atiim, shouldn't these be skill-shot weapons? Headshots for the win? Yes, they should, and will. Headshots and skillful use will still be rewarded in the sense that it'll grant you an OHK, which can be very critical in PC matches or when shooting "targets of interest ". Due to the size & shape of the reticule however, balancing around headshots would only be viable if you either use KB/M for sniping, or snipe in <150m of your targets; in which case a Rail Rifle would be of much better service. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1501	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:15:00 - [42] - Quote Atiim wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Atiim, shouldn't these be skill-shot weapons? Headshots for the win? Yes, they should, and will. Headshots and skillful use will still be rewarded in the sense that it'll grant you an OHK, which can be very critical in PC matches or when shooting "targets of interest ". Due to the size & shape of the reticule however, balancing around headshots would only be viable if you either use KB/M for sniping, or snipe in <150m of your targets; in which case a Rail Rifle would be of much better service. Hmmm. I mean no disrespect, but do you use Sniper Rifles and Rail Rifles? I'm Proficiency V in Rail Rifles and Proficiency III in Sniper Rifles; your statement above does not compute. If you've yet to consult subject matter experts on Sniping, I'd highly recommend getting in touch with Tyjus Vacca. o7 Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9203	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:40:00 - [43] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Hmmm. I mean no disrespect, but do you use Sniper Rifles or Rail Rifles? Though I claim no expertise, I'm Proficiency V in RR and III in SR and your statement above does not compute. If you've yet to consult a subject matter expert on Sniping, I'd highly recommend getting in touch with Tyjus Vacca. o7 Umm.. Both? Not too sure what the second part of your reply is referring too.. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15359	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:40:00 - [44] - Quote dzizur wrote: Maybe having sniper rifle shot trails visible a bit longer ? I also think that it would be nice if we could get a 3 variant of sniper rifle with much shorter range, less zoom and bit faster stabilization in ADS More likely has to do with the way dust 514 does things poorly; for example many pilots would claim they don't see swarms but know they been hit by them but as a third party everyone else can see the swarms. It is fairly common to not see bullets shot directly at you for some odd reason only the laser seems to be the only arsenal that consistently draws. I suspect this usually has to do with the source being drawn; if you cannot see the shooter being drawn then you cannot see the projectile at all. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10192	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:47:00 - [45] - Quote Strker Remorse wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. Have you ever seen the damage a 50 cal weapon does? OHK should be a high percentage when a sniper shoots someone, certainly if they are shot in the head, the sheer inertia of the hit would likely snap the targets neck. but that's ok tow CCPs line of not improving the sniper rifles. Have you ever seen what a bullet traveling at 7200m/s does? Like the Rail Rifle? Or how about superheated plasma fired at a rapid rate melting it's target? It's a game, comparing it to real life doesn't work. Go play Arma if you want realism. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15359	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:48:00 - [46] - Quote Strker Remorse wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: OHK weapons should be avoided unless its in this case a head shot. Have you ever seen the damage a 50 cal weapon does? OHK should be a high percentage when a sniper shoots someone, certainly if they are shot in the head, the sheer inertia of the hit would likely snap the targets neck. but that's ok tow CCPs line of not improving the sniper rifles. Game vs Reality Game play has several dozen reasons why such a massively long range sniper rifle should not OHK a very healthy player. Secondly; we're talking a ferrous beehive flechette round being shot out of a miniaturized railgun cannon. Impact Damage if at best is minimal vs the 50 cal. You are very very unlikely to break a guy's neck with such round at such velocities. Putting a hole clean through or blowing one entire side of the head out? Entirely possible. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9203	Posted - 2014.06.08 04:50:00 - [47] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Have you ever seen what a bullet traveling at 7200m/s does? Like the Rail Rifle? Or how about superheated plasma fired at a rapid rate melting it's target? It's a game, comparing it to real life doesn't work. Go play Arma if you want realism. It should also be mentioned that an 80GJ Railgun would quite level the entire map. Which then again, would be an effective way of dealing with the terrain issues. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Your friendly neighborhood Swarm Scrub. -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14221	Posted - 2014.06.08 09:42:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: There's no problem with the percentage of the buff as long as the values that result from the high percentage are reasonable. For example, let's take a weapon, and call it Weapon X. Weapon X only deals 5 damage per shot. In order to be competitive with other weapons, such as Weapon Y and Weapon Z, Weapon X needs to deal 15 damage per shot. Would you buff it to 15HP, despite that being a 300% buiff? Nothing has ever needed a 50% buff to be competitive. Not even the plasma cannon got that much of a buff. The sniper rifle is not so incredibly poor that it needs such a ludicrous buff - such a high percentage would suggest that it's not as usable as the old plasma cannon, which is completely untrue. Snipers are still in fairly common usage. I ran a sniping squad just yesterday and had great success because almost every map is absolutely perfect for sniping. Domination maps in particular are subject to easy mode sniping as everyone gets concentrated around a single point - which is often in open ground. Quote: As for a Sniper locking down an area, is that not their job? Area denial and suppression? I see no problem with a Sniper being able to lock down an area of the map, because there is nothing stoping someone from killing the enemy sniper locking down the map. If you refuse to take the measures necessary to counter someone, you deserve to be slaughtered by them repeatedly. Suppressing an area a bit? Yes. Rendering a very large area completely unusable for enemy infantry? No. I like how you go on about countering snipers all the time as well. Okay, here's how I'd run a squad if there were insane sniping numbers. Two breach forgers. They can sit in the redline. Four charge snipers. They can sit in assorted positions behind the redline. How do you counter this? ADS? Nope, dead. Snipers? Something being the only counter to itself is inherently broken. The redline protects from a huge number of threats - while snipers can remain in the redline and keep their risk so low, they shouldn't get a huge reward. Quote: No, I'm not trying to compare them to Conventional Rifles. I'm putting emphasis on the fact that 4-6s is an extremely generous amount of time to avoid death. It's not even 4-6s though. Your proposed Ishukone will kill almost everything in three shots or less - three seconds or less. The charge sniper has such an alpha damage if you don't OHKO you get massive alpha, and then two seconds later you can deliver the killing shot. The Kaalakiota will probably take four or fewer. You're getting kills in similar amounts of time to conventional rifles. Quote: Should that not be the case? If a team or squad decides to dedicate 3 players to a task, should they not be extremely effective? Every other item/role (and i do mean every) becomes ridiculously effective when 3 or more players dedicate themselves to the same task; and I don't see why Snipers shouldn't be any different. Which again, isn't a problem because nothing stops you from hunting the sniper(s) and killing them, thus freeing the area/objective for you and your team. Extremely effective to the point where they can completely prevent any player on the enemy team outside of a tank from going anywhere? No. The redline prevents you from going and killing the snipers. Quite effectively, I might add - snipers and ADSes are the only things which can really tackle deep redline snipers. Quote: STD/ADV frames won't be OHKed either. A STD Assault Suit can easily 400 eHP (more than the proposed damage of the Ishukone Sniper Rifle). The only thing they could possibly be OHKed by is the Charge Sniper Rifle, and that's only if your running a STD Medium Frame or non-tanked Light Frame. Low Risk meaning what exactly? The only time Sniping could ever be considered "low risk" is when your either in the redline, or when your enemies refuse to search for you (which is in no way a problem). A 400 eHP assault would be OHKOed by the Ishukone if the user wasn't wielding it raw, with no proficiencies or damage mods or commando bonuses, which is unlikely. Actually, the Ishukone would likely OHKO said assault because of the skew towards armour damage, and chances are that assault has more HP in armour than shields. A triple damage modded commando would be hitting nearly 500 a shot with an Ishukone, disregarding proficiency bonuses against armour. That'll OHKO a lot of ADV frames unless they're bricked to high heaven - if they are, it'll take a double tap, which will take about a second. More DPS than a conventional rifle, except being able to deal that with pinpoint accuracy from miles away when most maps are hugely open? Yeah, there's a problem there. Low risk meaning you are less likely to die. Suggesting that it's not low-risk is untrue - the probability of dying is much lower than infantry attempting to contest an objective. Sniping from towers or the redline reduces that risk further - but even if you're not, the risk of death is lower than in most other roles. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1320	Posted - 2014.06.08 13:21:00 - [49] - Quote How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim.
Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 997	Posted - 2014.06.08 14:27:00 - [50] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Reduce Range. This suggestion will be met by calls for crucifixion by some, and I don't really understand why. It prevents people from sitting in the redline (and gaining a very potent protective crutch) and abusing high powered weaponry, encourages people to go down into the combat zone to find better spots, and allows a higher reward for higher risk usage. snipers are sitting targets, maybe if the scope didn't take up 100% of the screen and it didn't sway like a bch when standing up and sniping, they would be much better and range wouldn't even matter.

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9223	Posted - 2014.06.08 14:45:00 - [51] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim. Hmm... Perhaps it's because not everyone has a Thale's TAR-07 and the Charge Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only viable sniper rifle? Or maybe it's because in the average engagement range the reticule is bigger than the target, making headshots far more difficult than they should be on DS3? Being able to get kills only when hitting the weakspot of the target wasn't a good idea/argument when tankers used it, and for reasons I've mentioned in the past it isn't a good one now. Dare I say people are starting to resort to 'Tanker's Logic' in this thread? Amarrians would prefer you be faithful. I'd rather you be logical. Current Goal: Caldari Medium Dropsuits III -HAND
Grimmiers 577	Posted - 2014.06.08 15:01:00 - [52] - Quote I don't snipe much, but I know the range is a bit too high when compared to the current railgun turrets. A handheld rifle probably shouldn't be shooting more than a mounted gun. 300 meters max with either a higher headshot modifier or a slight damage increase would be better. The damages you put there are too high.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3418	Posted - 2014.06.08 15:23:00 - [53] - Quote So I agree that a light frame should take one shot, a medium two and a heavy three (although really I'd prefer 1.5, 2.5 and 4 when actually tanked, which those numbers don't seem to be requiring). I bet a lot of people feel that way. But killing with a bodyshot? That's ridiculous. Completely and utterly ridiculous. Sniping is literally the lowest-risk playstyle in the game at the moment. Yes, I include tanking there. It is practically impossible to track down a competent sniper, and when you have a 20s cap on looking for them it makes it even harder. You assert that it's higher risk than other playstyles, but I have to say this: were I sniping there wouldn't be anyone able to shoot me within 250m. I would make a point of that, and my 600m range cap would make that easy. If I'm killing people with my rifle, it is highly likely that there is at least one person inside 50-100m whose location is unknown. That person can kill me approximately as quickly as I can kill him. I'm going to leave on this note: there is a reason that when you put uplinks on a tower all the newberries switch to the same suit. BlowoutForCPM
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3418	Posted - 2014.06.08 15:32:00 - [54] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim. Hmm... Perhaps it's because not everyone has a Thale's TAR-07 and the Charge Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only viable sniper rifle? Or maybe it's because in the average engagement range the reticule is bigger than the target, making headshots far more difficult than they should be on DS3? Being able to get kills only when hitting the weakspot of the target wasn't a good idea/argument when tankers used it, and for reasons I've mentioned in the past it isn't a good one now. Dare I say people are starting to resort to 'Tanker's Logic' in this thread? So the right response to these issues is to buff the ever loving Christ out of them? Seems like you're totally barking up the wrong tree here. BlowoutForCPM
Spartykins Militaires Sans Jeux 69	Posted - 2014.06.08 16:16:00 - [55] - Quote I've said this once before in another thread, but I'll repeat it here. There's no way we can really balance snipers when we still have areas in the map that isn't accessible to infantry. We just can't. (Insert witty phrase here)
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1324	Posted - 2014.06.08 16:26:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How can anyone think damage on snipers needs increasing? You already one shot the vast majority of suits with a Thales or charge SR headshot. If you're not getting headshots learn2aim. Hmm... Perhaps it's because not everyone has a Thale's TAR-07 and the Charge Sniper Rifle shouldn't be the only viable sniper rifle? Or maybe it's because in the average engagement range the reticule is bigger than the target, making headshots far more difficult than they should be on DS3? Being able to get kills only when hitting the weakspot of the target wasn't a good idea/argument when tankers used it, and for reasons I've mentioned in the past it isn't a good one now. Dare I say people are starting to resort to 'Tanker's Logic' in this thread? If by 'Tanker's Logic' you mean 'I should deal massive damage to all infantry from massive distances by spraying in their general direction, while being invulnerable to anything except another [tank/sniper]', I agree...
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 490	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:24:00 - [57] - Quote Currently, sniper rifles have situational use. They are very effective when people are camping the tops of structures. This ability should be retained. However, they are also hitscan easymode weapons, with what amounts to a random chance at successful headshots on a controller. Any buff would require them to not be hitscan and buffing headshots would just make them extremely random. Headshots already OHK many players. And, seriously, OHKs? Are you drunk? If the rilfes were buffed like that, I'd cram out my proto sniper fit and murder everyone for the entire match. After a week the last few remaining players would disappear - At least tanks gave you the feeling that you might be able to fight back and actually allowed you to capture the objectives. Try doing that when each team has ten snipers. Each match would end from clone depletion with uncapped objectives and we'd lose even more players. Do you even know how frustrating that would be? It's already obnoxious enough to constantly die from random attacks from fuckall nowhere. Currently, sniper rifles are flat-out broken and buffing them would just ruin the game even more than it already is.
Foo Fighting THE HANDS OF DEATH 74	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:31:00 - [58] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Unless said snipers are complete mouthbreathers This gets my vote for the funniest phrase ever written on the forums.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14255	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:34:00 - [59] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Unless said snipers are complete mouthbreathers This gets my vote for the funniest phrase ever written on the forums. Help me bring it into common usage. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Foo Fighting THE HANDS OF DEATH 74	Posted - 2014.06.08 17:51:00 - [60] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Unless said snipers are complete mouthbreathers This gets my vote for the funniest phrase ever written on the forums. Help me bring it into common usage. Oh I'm gunna try. It immediately made me think of a fat wheezy kid I knew who was always last to get picked for school sports day.



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