DUST Search - The Real PC Numbers & how the changes will kill PC

Hawkin P wrote:

I don't mind them getting rid of passive ISK, in PC, but in order to do that properly they need to increase player payout much more then they are proposing.
Don't worry about clone pack prices, districts will end up selling for less then a clone pack.
Here are the real PC numbers you need to worry about.

Example: Team A attacks Team B with 150 clones District to District.
Corp A pays 2-6 mil ISK in clone moving fees.
Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k.
Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k

Team A Wins they kill 80 clones of Team B, and Team B kills 80 clones of Team A's.
So 160 total clone loss.
160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil
Team A losses 5 Tanks 3 ADS = -5.4 mil
Team A loses 80 clones x 200k = -16.4 mil
Clone transport fees Average = -3 mil
Loss total = 24.8mil
160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil
Total profit for the winners = 7.2 mil
Profit Per Player = 450k each

Not much considering the losing team lost 16.4 mil or just over 1 mil per player.

So by playing PC after the proposed chances you have the chance to earn 450k or lose 1 mil. Combine that with their being no reward for holding a district. The desire to play PC is going to greatly diminish.

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Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 392	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:42:00 - [1] - Quote I don't mind them getting rid of passive ISK, in PC, but in order to do that properly they need to increase player payout much more then they are proposing. Don't worry about clone pack prices, districts will end up selling for less then a clone pack. Here are the real PC numbers you need to worry about. Example: Team A attacks Team B with 150 clones District to District. Corp A pays 2-6 mil ISK in clone moving fees. Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k Team A Wins they kill 80 clones of Team B, and Team B kills 80 clones of Team A's. So 160 total clone loss. 160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil Team A losses 5 Tanks 3 ADS = -5.4 mil Team A loses 80 clones x 200k = -16.4 mil Clone transport fees Average = -3 mil Loss total = 24.8mil 160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil Total profit for the winners = 7.2 mil Profit Per Player = 450k each Not much considering the losing team lost 16.4 mil or just over 1 mil per player. So by playing PC after the proposed chances you have the chance to earn 450k or lose 1 mil. Combine that with their being no reward for holding a district. The desire to play PC is going to greatly diminish.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 286	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:49:00 - [2] - Quote So if you win by MCC but only kill 80 clones do you only get paid for the 80 and not the 150 the MCC win gives you?
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:51:00 - [3] - Quote Dust User wrote: So if you win by MCC but only kill 80 clones do you only get paid for the 80 and not the 150 the MCC win gives you? Yes you only get paid for the clones you actually kill. All other clone loss just disappears.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 286	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:54:00 - [4] - Quote lol This sh*t gets better everyday.
Titus Stryker Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 365	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:57:00 - [5] - Quote everyone relax, Kane Spero already figured everything out and told CCP, just wait and see how it plays out in game I stream DUST on YouTube
Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 75	Posted - 2014.05.29 17:19:00 - [6] - Quote When is the hotfix supposed to be implemented?
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 178	Posted - 2014.05.29 17:27:00 - [7] - Quote CCP hasnt said yet how much each merc might get paid out at the end of the game. it could be substantially increased. Additionally, the corp wallet could also win a lump sum from a game. Either way, its better than the system is now where people agree to not fight eachother just so that they can collect welfare to bankroll luxury pub games. if someone wants ISK they have to earn it now. The entitlements tap is being turned off. Good players and good corps will still find a way to finance their fights and turn a profit. Its only those who needed a constant handout who are going to flounder. Sink or swim
Roman837 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 328	Posted - 2014.05.29 17:53:00 - [8] - Quote Are you suggesting....that owning 244 out of 245 districts....was because we were not "good" corps? I am against this new system. Here's why. Every small corp in this game. Is going to be targetted. You will be farmed and slaughtered for isk. You will launch attacks for 45mill isk from your clone packs. You will beat up each other. Some of you will flip other small corps districts. Big fish will need to pay their guys. They will eventually see your district online. Hit it and take it. You can choose to no show it. And the attacker will not make any isk, but you will lose you 45mill in clone packs. The passive isk..for owning the district, as a reward for you TAKING the district, would help pay back the 45mill, and help PAY your players. FAIL. Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Characters Cesar Sousa, CEO of ERA
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3320	Posted - 2014.05.29 17:58:00 - [9] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: When is the hotfix supposed to be implemented? June 4th? CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Derrith Erador The Last of DusT. 1939	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:02:00 - [10] - Quote Roman837 wrote: Are you suggesting....that owning 244 out of 245 districts....was because we were not "good" corps? I am against this new system. Here's why. Every small corp in this game. Is going to be targetted. You will be farmed and slaughtered for isk. You will launch attacks for 45mill isk from your clone packs. You will beat up each other. Some of you will flip other small corps districts. Big fish will need to pay their guys. They will eventually see your district online. Hit it and take it. You can choose to no show it. And the attacker will not make any isk, but you will lose you 45mill in clone packs. The passive isk..for owning the district, as a reward for you TAKING the district, would help pay back the 45mill, and help PAY your players. FAIL. The only reason I don't normally tear into you for some posts you've made is because you have in your a love for maple syrup. I do not see a reason to tear into you for this post, totally agree with you. Betty White, the worlds hottest grandma.

Roman837 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:12:00 - [11] - Quote Appreciate it Derrith. I agree this new change, WILL provide lots of cash for the sharks, with Viking style smash and grab attacks. Use those clones once they replenish, drain them and launch into another prey corp. The passive isk use to let us pick and chose who to fight, because we had money to blow on our guys and if we LOST a match against another beast corp, no big deal. Now...Isk is for WINNING. No profit in war anymore. Profit in attacking little corps. I don't like it, but it is what I will be doing. To fund my guys. Maple Syrup Drinking Canadian, EVE Characters Cesar Sousa, CEO of ERA
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8944	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k You don't always have to run PRO gear in PC, nor do you have to fit ADSs and HAVs that cost 6-800k. I think CPM Heinrich Jagerblitzen put things into a much better perspective: Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: There's nothing "obvious" about corporations being forced to take a loss. You're simply assuming that everyone HAS to maintain the status quo in terms of gear fielded in PC matches, which is not a given at all. That status quo is only possible because PC corps have sat on fountains of "free" isk. Now they won't have that opulence anymore, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with corporations scaling back what they're able to afford to fight with as well. In fact, one of the healthiest things for PC as a feature would be greater diversity of gear quality fielded. What if corps had to pick and choose which PC fights they brought prototype gear out for? Just because we take it for granted that everyone runs proto all the time doesn't mean that's good for the game. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:37:00 - [13] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: When is the hotfix supposed to be implemented? June 4th
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 397	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:44:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k You don't always have to run PRO gear in PC, nor do you have to fit ADSs and HAVs that cost 6-800k. I think CPM No you don't have to run proto, but facing an equal corp with proto then you will probably lose, and in turn lose much more ISK. NTM the best thing about PC is that you go all out. Use all your best.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 892	Posted - 2014.05.29 18:56:00 - [15] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: Atiim wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k You don't always have to run PRO gear in PC, nor do you have to fit ADSs and HAVs that cost 6-800k. I think CPM No you don't have to run proto, but facing an equal corp with proto then you will probably lose, and in turn lose much more ISK. NTM the best thing about PC is that you go all out. Use all your best. Agree. Running crap suits due to ISK constraints kind of takes out the competitive nature of it all. I'm happy passive ISK is going but I hope the math works out to keep the fighting going. I've always wondered if loosing corps should get some kind of reduced payout (just like it should be done in pubs). CCP continues to make the wrong choices, one choice at a time.
Stiddlefaxq Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 94	Posted - 2014.05.29 19:05:00 - [16] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: Atiim wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k You don't always have to run PRO gear in PC, nor do you have to fit ADSs and HAVs that cost 6-800k. I think CPM No you don't have to run proto, but facing an equal corp with proto then you will probably lose, and in turn lose much more ISK. NTM the best thing about PC is that you go all out. Use all your best. The correct way to go about it, is to use exactly as much proto gear as you need to win. Using lower quality gear will reduce expenses, and may end up making your team lose a few more clones It will also make the match take longer, allowing for killing more enemy clones. So long as you win, it is the right thing to do. It makes for more competitive matches in that regard -- If you are facing a team that you can face stomp, why not just face stomp them in advance gear? Maybe it might be a better closer match in advance gear
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 398	Posted - 2014.05.29 19:08:00 - [17] - Quote Stiddlefaxq wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Atiim wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k You don't always have to run PRO gear in PC, nor do you have to fit ADSs and HAVs that cost 6-800k. I think CPM No you don't have to run proto, but facing an equal corp with proto then you will probably lose, and in turn lose much more ISK. NTM the best thing about PC is that you go all out. Use all your best. The correct way to go about it, is to use exactly as much proto gear as you need to win. Using lower quality gear will reduce expenses, and may end up making your team lose a few more clones It will also make the match take longer, allowing for killing more enemy clones. So long as you win, it is the right thing to do. It makes for more competitive matches in that regard -- If you are facing a team that you can face stomp, why not just face stomp them in advance gear? Maybe it might be a better closer match in advance gear So will PC teams now be required to have an accountant as well as an FC? Thats sounds like so much more fun than it is now.
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2299	Posted - 2014.05.29 19:44:00 - [18] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: I don't mind them getting rid of passive ISK, in PC, but in order to do that properly they need to increase player payout much more then they are proposing. Don't worry about clone pack prices, districts will end up selling for less then a clone pack. Here are the real PC numbers you need to worry about. Example: Team A attacks Team B with 150 clones District to District. Corp A pays 2-6 mil ISK in clone moving fees. Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k Team A Wins they kill 80 clones of Team B, and Team B kills 80 clones of Team A's. So 160 total clone loss. 160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil Team A losses 5 Tanks 3 ADS = -5.4 mil Team A loses 80 clones x 200k = -16.4 mil Clone transport fees Average = -3 mil Loss total = 24.8mil 160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil Total profit for the winners = 7.2 mil Profit Per Player = 450k each Not much considering the losing team lost 16.4 mil or just over 1 mil per player. So by playing PC after the proposed chances you have the chance to earn 450k or lose 1 mil. Combine that with their being no reward for holding a district. The desire to play PC is going to greatly diminish. Thats a generous number a single person alone can lose 5+ tanks and most corps use at least 2 tankers majority 3 and some 4 and then theirs Nyain San Tanker/Logi
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2299	Posted - 2014.05.29 19:50:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k You don't always have to run PRO gear in PC, nor do you have to fit ADSs and HAVs that cost 6-800k. I think CPM Heinrich Jagerblitzen put things into a much better perspective: I play PC for it's competitive nature I will often throw so nI can insane amounts of ISK out for the win losing tanks to hack objectives running Proto suits in my tanks so I can hop out and slay if I get ****ed or take out the enemy HP guy so I can hack. Removing it's competitive nature ruins PC hell if your not supposed to run PRO in PC then whats the point of it. Tanker/Logi
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8944	Posted - 2014.05.29 20:28:00 - [20] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: I play PC for it's competitive nature I will often throw so nI can insane amounts of ISK out for the win losing tanks to hack objectives running Proto suits in my tanks so I can hop out and slay if I get **ed or take out the enemy HP guy so I can hack. And what stops you from doing this in STD/ADV gear again? Benjamin Ciscko wrote:** Removing it's competitive nature ruins PC hell if your not supposed to run PRO in PC then whats the point of it. What makes Planetary Conquest competitive: Quality of Tactics Organized Quantity of Specific Roles Quality of Players The point of Prototype gear is to use it when you can afford it. It wasn't meant to be spammed 24/7 whenever players feel like. The new PC changes will force players to either go broke, or run PRO sparingly, which is good. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND

Stiddlefaxq Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 95	Posted - 2014.05.29 20:30:00 - [21] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: Stiddlefaxq wrote: The correct way to go about it, is to use exactly as much proto gear as you need to win. Using lower quality gear will reduce expenses, and may end up making your team lose a few more clones It will also make the match take longer, allowing for killing more enemy clones. So long as you win, it is the right thing to do. It makes for more competitive matches in that regard -- If you are facing a team that you can face stomp, why not just face stomp them in advance gear? Maybe it might be a better closer match in advance gear So will PC teams now be required to have an accountant as well as an FC? Thats sounds like so much more fun than it is now. You don't already have an accountant?
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2299	Posted - 2014.05.29 21:23:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: I play PC for it's competitive nature I will often throw so nI can insane amounts of ISK out for the win losing tanks to hack objectives running Proto suits in my tanks so I can hop out and slay if I get **ed or take out the enemy HP guy so I can hack. And what stops you from doing this in STD/ADV gear again? Benjamin Ciscko wrote:** Removing it's competitive nature ruins PC hell if your not supposed to run PRO in PC then whats the point of it. What makes Planetary Conquest competitive: Quality of Tactics Organized Quantity of Specific Roles Quality of Players The point of Prototype gear is to use it when you can afford it. It wasn't meant to be spammed 24/7 whenever players feel like. The new PC changes will force players to either go broke, or run PRO sparingly, which is good. Sigh you're allowed to stop blowing Kain you know. Tanker/Logi
Rich MO-FO Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.29 23:16:00 - [23] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: Dust User wrote: So if you win by MCC but only kill 80 clones do you only get paid for the 80 and not the 150 the MCC win gives you? Yes you only get paid for the clones you actually kill. All other clone loss just disappears. Err Can I have Dev Conformation? My Alts are in Real corps
Rich MO-FO Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.29 23:21:00 - [24] - Quote Dead PC... Sweet, give me your stuff, I want fights, I don't care about ISK I want organized fights rather than random battles My Alts are in Real corps
Rich MO-FO Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.29 23:24:00 - [25] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: I don't mind them getting rid of passive ISK, in PC, but in order to do that properly they need to increase player payout much more then they are proposing. Don't worry about clone pack prices, districts will end up selling for less then a clone pack. Here are the real PC numbers you need to worry about. Example: Team A attacks Team B with 150 clones District to District. Corp A pays 2-6 mil ISK in clone moving fees. Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k Team A Wins they kill 80 clones of Team B, and Team B kills 80 clones of Team A's. So 160 total clone loss. 160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil Team A losses 5 Tanks 3 ADS = -5.4 mil Team A loses 80 clones x 200k = -16.4 mil Clone transport fees Average = -3 mil Loss total = 24.8mil 160 Clones x 200k = +32 mil Total profit for the winners = 7.2 mil Profit Per Player = 450k each Not much considering the losing team lost 16.4 mil or just over 1 mil per player. So by playing PC after the proposed chances you have the chance to earn 450k or lose 1 mil. Combine that with their being no reward for holding a district. The desire to play PC is going to greatly diminish. I'm going to sound like a Prick like EVE Player saying this but there's an old phrase, don't fly what you can't afford to lose. My Alts are in Real corps
Rich MO-FO Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.29 23:26:00 - [26] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Hawkin P wrote: Average cost of a Proto Suit 200k. Average Tank and ADS costs 600k and 800k You don't always have to run PRO gear in PC, nor do you have to fit ADSs and HAVs that cost 6-800k. I think CPM Heinrich Jagerblitzen put things into a much better perspective: I play PC for it's competitive nature I will often throw so nI can insane amounts of ISK out for the win losing tanks to hack objectives running Proto suits in my tanks so I can hop out and slay if I get ****ed or take out the enemy HP guy so I can hack. Removing it's competitive nature ruins PC hell if your not supposed to run PRO in PC then whats the point of it. So those Proto suits I see people using in Pubs makes pubs competitive? Wow My Alts are in Real corps
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 399	Posted - 2014.05.30 02:29:00 - [27] - Quote Stiddlefaxq wrote: So will PC teams now be required to have an accountant as well as an FC? Thats sounds like so much more fun than it is now. You don't already have an accountant?[/quote] Not one who plays in the PC and tells us what suits we can afford to use on the fly.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8944	Posted - 2014.05.30 02:34:00 - [28] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Sigh you're allowed to stop blowing Kain you know. So me having similar opinons with someone means I'm blowing them? With that 'logic', your Zatara's sex slave. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8944	Posted - 2014.05.30 02:37:00 - [29] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: Not one who plays in the PC and tells us what suits we can afford to use on the fly. You don't need an accountant for that. You simply need players who can think for themselves and understand basic arithmetic operations. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Hynox Xitio 0uter.Heaven 1260	Posted - 2014.05.30 03:36:00 - [30] - Quote Am I the only one who thinks removing all rewards from owning districts negates the purpose of owning a district? Unleash the Fogwoggler, follow your dreams. ( -íº -£-û -íº) /)



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