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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Haerr Legio DXIV 714	Posted - 2014.05.25 06:44:00 - [1] - Quote Old Table: Table for 1.8 New Table: Table for hotfix Alpha Gallente Scout 15% Profile Dampening bonus (Used to be 25%) Columns are: N = No Cloak Field S = Standard Cloak Field (0% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) A = Advanced Cloak Field (5% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) P = Prototype Cloak Field (10% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) Pale Green = 0 Complex Profile Dampeners Green = 1 Complex Profile Dampeners Cyan = 2 Complex Profile Dampeners Blue = 3 Complex Profile Dampeners Purple = 4 Complex Profile Dampeners Pink = 5 Complex Profile Dampeners Source: LINK I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 282	Posted - 2014.05.25 08:13:00 - [2] - Quote Oh, come on guys. No comments yet? No-one complaining about how their scout is marginalised, or other people who use the marginalising scout telling them to HTFU? Poor show, community, poor show. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3458	Posted - 2014.05.25 09:31:00 - [3] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/t8ZHO7mPv9lfszaZLSlbHBw/htmlview?pli=1#gid=0 ^ I had no idea CCP had made this. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9918	Posted - 2014.05.25 10:39:00 - [4] - Quote Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
m621 zma Seraphim Initiative.. 128	Posted - 2014.05.25 11:10:00 - [5] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ it is kinda ridiculous, I already run 2 (+ a cardiac reg and a mil plate) - guess i won't be doing so much running sigh
LudiKure ninda Bragian Order Amarr Empire 85	Posted - 2014.05.25 12:03:00 - [6] - Quote Thank you CCP for this nerf,..now I can finaly stop playn this game,and go to dark souls 2. Solo player.. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED!
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 4893	Posted - 2014.05.25 12:24:00 - [7] - Quote I don't think this will be as bad as we think. Remember, the Cal scout is getting a nerf to scan radius. They won't be able to cover vast swathes of the battlefield unless they totally dedicate their scout to eWAR. If they do, then they are a VERY weak scout in combat, and anyone with a good infantry will kill them. That, or you can just run a damped scout and make eliminating him your priority. Strategies will change, and I honestly can't wait to see how this plays out. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1764	Posted - 2014.05.25 12:25:00 - [8] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: I don't think this will be as bad as we think. Remember, the Cal scout is getting a nerf to scan radius. They won't be able to cover vast swathes of the battlefield unless they totally dedicate their scout to eWAR. If they do, then they are a VERY weak scout in combat, and anyone with a good infantry will kill them. That, or you can just run a damped scout and make eliminating him your priority. Strategies will change, and I honestly can't wait to see how this plays out. That's the spirit "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4257	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:09:00 - [9] - Quote I like this. I mean I still wont play the game anymore, but I do like the initiative. No suit should be completely unscannable. If someone is going to cripple their suits offensive capabilities to be a radar man, they should be able to do exactly that.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 980	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:25:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ Apparently in this scenario the Cal scout is running at least 3 precision enhancers? That is not gimping itself? The Gallente have no real argument if the Caldari have to gimp themselves to find the Gal. Plus to have any success running the Caldari scout you are going to have to run range enhancers meaning you have very little tank and are weak in combat. Now the other scouts are screwed and have legitimate arguments, but not the Gal. The only difference is that the Cal will be better in a group because of shared passive scan. Just drop shared passive and I think we are solid in the Gal vs Cal argument.

Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:39:00 - [11] - Quote Saw this just after I got done crunching some of the numbers myself, I'd say I'm...somewhat pacified. These numbers are about the best the balance could get under the current scanning system, but don't get my wrong, that's not saying much. The system itself is terribly flawed, so the best I was hoping for was the general vicinity of balance, and this seems to deliver that. So, I'm not exactly happy with it, but I understand that this is probably the best we're going to get without client updates.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 7597	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:40:00 - [12] - Quote So, an Amarr Scout, with a Proto Cloak active and two Complex Dampeners fit to the suit, will be able to get under a Caldari Scout with two Precision Enhancers and a Gallente Logi using Focused Scans? Or am I looking at the wrong color or something? New [self proclaimed] CEO of Fatal Absolution 31+ mil SP Scout/Heavy/Logi/ADS pilot for hire (free) in PC
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1030	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:49:00 - [13] - Quote Cal/Gal e-war will be better balanced after this change. The problem is active scanners. 3 complex dampeners, here I come!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 788	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:50:00 - [14] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ Beat me up if you like and yes I do not spend a great time playing scout but I do have scout related skill set tools to level four in most areas , but anyway ... I think this is a great thing and kills the discussion about who is a scout and not just looking for a quick exploit meaning FOTM . Now EVERY scout has to make a choice of what .. if anything , they are willing to sacrifice and or what kind of scout they will play .. instead of a bricked out cloaked , proto gear wearing player that has a far greater advantage over every other player on the field regardless of role or class . This is causing one to make choices so now we will actually see who the real scouts are and who just seen all of the praise that these suits were getting and decided to give it a shot , oh yeah ... skill into shotguns as well to make it more easier . I didn't have a problem with cloaks , besides the fact that you could get off shots while cloaked . Now I will see scouts and not just pretenders .. or better yet I will see the light assault players and who plays scouts now . Just to mention , the Caldari scout ( I have them and use them but I don't play exclusive scout ) had to sacrifice a lot to see a Gal scout ... I'm not complaining but to speak to a point , while the Gal scout had far more options and was by far the most versatile scout and now with these changes .. it will even the playing field . I think this shows that they are listening to the community without letting the community dictate the direction of the game because these are needed changes , now if they can just fix the stats of the basic Caldari heavies along with some vehicle damage mod changes and a refund of at least infantry SP's then ... that would be spot on . Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2654	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:54:00 - [15] - Quote The dampning on the cloak should've just disappear completely. Perhaps the Gallente Scout bonus WAS too good, though. We could've dodge anything while having 1 ENH and 1 CPX dampner on. If Caldari Scout has 1 CPX precision and Gallente Scout has 0 dampners, the Caldari SHOULD scan him, but if the Gallente has a dampner of the same tier, he should be invisible. That's balance. Both races have to be on equal footing. And let's be honest: have you ever seen a Caldari Scout with precision mods? I haven't.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 788	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:59:00 - [16] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Just drop shared passive and I think we are solid in the Gal vs Cal argument. They are not that great to begin with and now you want to kill the ONLY REAL reason to use or have these suits . Bad idea to me and I don't even play scout . Just sound bad . -1 Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1030	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:03:00 - [17] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: So, an Amarr Scout, with a Proto Cloak active and two Complex Dampeners fit to the suit, will be able to get under a Caldari Scout with two Precision Enhancers and a Gallente Logi using Focused Scans? Or am I looking at the wrong color or something? Yes for the Caldari Scout, no for the Gallente Logi. If scanning is equal to profile, scanning wins. To evade a Gallente Logi with a Focused Scanner you need 3 dampeners and the proto cloak in an Amarr suit.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 7597	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:11:00 - [18] - Quote Flyingconejo wrote: Patrick57 wrote: So, an Amarr Scout, with a Proto Cloak active and two Complex Dampeners fit to the suit, will be able to get under a Caldari Scout with two Precision Enhancers and a Gallente Logi using Focused Scans? Or am I looking at the wrong color or something? Yes for the Caldari Scout, no for the Gallente Logi. If scanning is equal to profile, scanning wins. To evade a Gallente Logi with a Focused Scanner you need 3 dampeners and the proto cloak in an Amarr suit. Thanks for that, I was reading the table wrong. Anyway, I know what my new fit will be! New [self proclaimed] CEO of Fatal Absolution 31+ mil SP Scout/Heavy/Logi/ADS pilot for hire (free) in PC
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2656	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:18:00 - [19] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Flyingconejo wrote: Patrick57 wrote: So, an Amarr Scout, with a Proto Cloak active and two Complex Dampeners fit to the suit, will be able to get under a Caldari Scout with two Precision Enhancers and a Gallente Logi using Focused Scans? Or am I looking at the wrong color or something? Yes for the Caldari Scout, no for the Gallente Logi. If scanning is equal to profile, scanning wins. To evade a Gallente Logi with a Focused Scanner you need 3 dampeners and the proto cloak in an Amarr suit. Thanks for that, I was reading the table wrong. Anyway, I know what my new fit will be! A Gallente Scout knockoff? Lol
Poultryge1st Da Short Buss RISE of LEGION 86	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:32:00 - [20] - Quote Haerr wrote: Old Table: Table for 1.8 New Table: Table for hotfix Alpha Gallente Scout 15% Profile Dampening bonus (Used to be 25%) Columns are: N = No Cloak Field S = Standard Cloak Field (0% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) A = Advanced Cloak Field (5% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) P = Prototype Cloak Field (10% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) Pale Green = 0 Complex Profile Dampeners Green = 1 Complex Profile Dampeners Cyan = 2 Complex Profile Dampeners Blue = 3 Complex Profile Dampeners Purple = 4 Complex Profile Dampeners Pink = 5 Complex Profile Dampeners Source: LINK Thanks the great post, man! You just saved me from having to figure out the math myself.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3970	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:20:00 - [21] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ I love this when I remember you talking about the Calogi back in the day. I got a bit of a stiffy thinking about your tears welling up. Level 3 Forum Warrior PSN: wbrom42
End is Near Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 86	Posted - 2014.05.25 16:07:00 - [22] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Oh, come on guys. No comments yet? No-one complaining about how their scout is marginalised, or other people who use the marginalising scout telling them to HTFU? Poor show, community, poor show. LMAO..... I HATE you scrubby scouts....
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 175	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:21:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: I don't think this will be as bad as we think. Remember, the Cal scout is getting a nerf to scan radius. They won't be able to cover vast swathes of the battlefield unless they totally dedicate their scout to eWAR. If they do, then they are a VERY weak scout in combat, and anyone with a good infantry will kill them. That, or you can just run a damped scout and make eliminating him your priority. Strategies will change, and I honestly can't wait to see how this plays out. That's the spirit Exactly! I mean I know it's a stretch, but how bout we all...... wait for it..... FIGHT STRAIGHT UP NO GIMMICKS! "What are you some kind of noob", said the proto stomping exploiter with a mean look on his face! "No not at all", l said! "Well how do you expect me to play as a scout if it's not COMPLETELY easy, and it now actually requires skill to do?" Said the very angry skill less exploiter?! And I say to you all who have went fotm once again, and now face the nurf bat..... stop exploiting fotm, stop specing into every new gimmick, and stop expecting to gain the "I win button"!!!! Sounds like your gonna have to scout in groups of two. "What's this? Groups?" said the, now enraged, proto stomping, fotm using, exploiter of gimmicks extraordinaire?! Well you have a number of ways to do this, and still run your scouts to a high level of efficiency my good man! 1. scout sniper(Gallente)/speed-hack scout(minmatar) Intel and Recon One scout can hide in a nearby location (Gal/scout sniper) searching for the area, gathering intel, and taking down important targets! While the speed-hack min/scout uses his sprint speed and hack speed to go in, cloaked or uncloaked, with nova knives, uplinks, and a trusty shotgun to get the rest of his team on target to the location. you know, the actual assault players(not the scout), the heavies, and logistics guys who can then come in to do their jobs! The scout sniper can also stay hidden well (with it's crazy profile dampening that everyone wants to complain about), and hit the defending heavies and logis. He can soften their shields and draw their attention while the speed-hack scout takes the CRU and drops two uplinks to get his fighters on target and started attacking. The scout sniper will receive assist and/or kills, if he's within range for a flux version scanner he will receive intel assist, and all while out of range for retaliation as he is very hard to detect! The speed-hack scout will rack up severely on points by hacking, dropping links and ammo, and as a last resort firing and dispatching his enemy! 2. Watchtower scout(Caldari)/Defender Heavy(Gallente)/Executioner Commando(Caldari)/DOC logi(Minmatar) Immovable Object "So you say as a scout I can play well with others?" said the somewhat confused C.O.D. player looking for something easy, and calling it skill. Yes! There is hope for you Caldari scout! In the form of Intel points running any scanner with your scan precision abilities, and kills and assist running your main battle rifle( Rail Rifle) or also a Caldari weapon(Sniper rifle). What you are built for is range and precision, not attacking heavies head on! Hence why the entire community keeps saying that it is an exploitation! Everyone else in the game is doing their respective jobs in their own way. How about you do yours! I could go on all day with how the scouts, and all roles really, could be setup to support other roles and themselves. That's just it though! CCP has to make this game role specific again, and attract more team-tactical strategic players instead of the ever so ******, parent money spending, C.O.D. players?! Who, by the way, have bought every version of C.O.D. just to do the exact same ** differently?! If you want to attract those mindless knobs for revenue purposes create a game they can play that requires little effort, coordination, and teamwork?! They'll flock in droves I've seen it lol! CCP Rattati has the right idea about this game, and finally someone is going for balance! Now when I say balance, I don't mean same everything?! I mean advantage, disadvantage! Let the players choose what strengths to use to their advantage, while at the same time if they aren't playing away from their weaknesses they get educated! Example: Amarr assault w/ laser rifle/Scrambler rifle and uplinks. High shield regen and dmg mod in high slots, and range amp and speed/stamina mods in low slots. Advantages: range weapons and uplink spawn speed. keeps the enemy at bay while his team spwans safely for the assault. Gets points by uplinks and kills/assist. Disadvantages: Enemy closing the distance with flux grenades, plasma weapons (assault rifles and shotguns), and flux grenade/projectile weapon combo. Some of you have simply missed the point of why there are roles, and like they said ^^^ further up! D3ATH CARD! "Anybody order chaos?"
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 983	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:34:00 - [24] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Just drop shared passive and I think we are solid in the Gal vs Cal argument. They are not that great to begin with and now you want to kill the ONLY REAL reason to use or have these suits . Bad idea to me and I don't even play scout . Just sound bad . -1 I've never been a fan of shared passive, always seemed like that was stepping on the toes of active scanners. That is NOT the reason you use the Cal suit, you use it to see your opponent. You should have to verbally communicate with your squad to indicate enemy position. This would go a long way in balancing active scanners too.
Tweaksz Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 106	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:45:00 - [25] - Quote Looks like I bought Dark Souls 2 just in time. Pill Popping Madness!
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 295	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:47:00 - [26] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: So, an Amarr Scout, with a Proto Cloak active and two Complex Dampeners fit to the suit, will be able to get under a Caldari Scout with two Precision Enhancers and a Gallente Logi using Focused Scans? Or am I looking at the wrong color or something? Why would amarr use the suit like that? Thought they were light assualts? Atleast every single amarr I've been up against were armor tanking like no ones business...
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 175	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:56:00 - [27] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: Looks like I bought Dark Souls 2 just in time. The more C.O.D. players that leave the better. Not insulting your intelligence here by any means, but let's face it. The scouts were OP day one of 1.8, and have sense been exploited to no end?! This will make them play their actual roles instead of just swarming the map with little speedy tanked demons, and camping spawn points for kills?! You guys had your fun, but now that madness has to stop! If the only way a player can do well is by exploitation of fotm, and camping I think the entire community will be in agreement that he is indeed lacking in the strategy, teamwork, and leadership departments?! But, thank you for your input to the forums as everyone's opinions should be respected "Anybody order chaos?"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9935	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:32:00 - [28] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ Apparently in this scenario the Cal scout is running at least 3 precision enhancers? That is not gimping itself? The Gallente have no real argument if the Caldari have to gimp themselves to find the Gal. Plus to have any success running the Caldari scout you are going to have to run range enhancers meaning you have very little tank and are weak in combat. Now the other scouts are screwed and have legitimate arguments, but not the Gal. The only difference is that the Cal will be better in a group because of shared passive scan. Just drop shared passive and I think we are solid in the Gal vs Cal argument. You need ONE Cal to gimp itself for a squad. You need an entire team to gimp itself to hide. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9935	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:34:00 - [29] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ I love this when I remember you talking about the Calogi back in the day. I got a bit of a stiffy thinking about your tears welling up. These aren't tears. I have every Gallente suit, and have enough SP to skill into whatever Caldari Suit. If CCP fucks up, I am ready :3 This is me caring about the balance, unlike selfish logis who wanted EVERYTHING because they're logis. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 175	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:36:00 - [30] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ I love this when I remember you talking about the Calogi back in the day. I got a bit of a stiffy thinking about your tears welling up. These aren't tears. I have every Gallente suit, and have enough SP to skill into whatever Caldari Suit. If CCP fucks up, I am ready :3 This is me caring about the balance, unlike selfish logis who wanted EVERYTHING because they're logis. Oooooooooooooooooooh!!!!! He say he bout that life bro!!!! "Anybody order chaos?"

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 788	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:37:00 - [31] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: I've never been a fan of shared passive, always seemed like that was stepping on the toes of active scanners. That is NOT the reason you use the Cal suit, you use it to see your opponent. You should have to verbally communicate with your squad to indicate enemy position. This would go a long way in balancing active scanners too. Active scanners were nerfed so much that anything would have " stepped on there toes " because they were basically made useless . Now with the changes .. hopefully that will change as well . That's the Caldari scouts job , they are not strong scouts in the least and definite not as strong as Gal or Amarr scouts and Minmatar scouts are the assassins , so that was their thing .. " shared intel " and now you want to eliminate that ... the ONLY THINGthat they have going for them . To use promoting active scanners just sounds good but it seems like you are just hurt and would like others to feel the pain that you do now . I've never been a fan of FOTM and now with and from those complaining , I can see who actually plays scout because they generally don't care enough to pout and claim conspiracy ... they look at what they are given and make the most of it . They are generally use to getting screwed but scouts are now in a better place than they once were and they understand that . True scouts are some of the toughest players in this game ... hands down if you ask me . Leave the passive scan , it's what they do . I don't just use the suit for myself but for those who are around me as well , I'm not a scout but I'm not that much of a scrub either .. it's nice to have players feel like what your doing is useful , you know pointing out opponents ... but now that has changed for them enough without people now wanting to eliminate that from their job ... which is their job and they don't do too much of anything else . Caldari scouts are weak . Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1651	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:15:00 - [32] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I like this. I mean I still wont play the game anymore, but I do like the initiative. No suit should be completely unscannable. If someone is going to cripple their suits offensive capabilities to be a radar man, they should be able to do exactly that. I would have to agree with this. It is not perfect, but I think it is better than the current circumstances, and is definitely better than an oversimplified, over heavy nerf. And since we have no idea if they will be able to adjust the scanning mechanics for Dust, I think this is the best of a bad situation. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 483	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:31:00 - [33] - Quote I am absolutely disgusted by the current 'EWAR' system in DUST. You only have 2 options right now: Be a scout with lots of dampeners. Be perma scanned and expect to be shot every second because of that ******* chevron right above your head. Remove the damn chevrons from TacNet, remove directional arrows from the minimap. This wallhack-like BS has to stop. Scouts everywhere, game's unplayable. @JebusMcKing
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 789	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:20:00 - [34] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I am absolutely disgusted by the current 'EWAR' system in DUST. You only have 2 options right now: Be a scout with lots of dampeners. Be perma scanned and expect to be shot every second because of that ***** chevron right above your head. Remove the damn chevrons from TacNet, remove directional arrows from the minimap. This wallhack-like BS has to stop. The TacNet sucks and is in no way a real factor . I drive vehicles and pilot derps and half the time the signatures do not show up for me ... especially vehicles . Half the time they are dark shadows that I have to actually think to myself , " Oh .. there's a enemy vehicle " , because it's black but my team mates signatures show up just fine for me ... I'm really not trying to see my team rather the opposition and their vehicles . Passive scanners are uninformative unless your going scout E-war ... so I guess that's working as intended . No knock on that from me . Truthfully , I started to get tired of seeing these players who thought they were invisible but didn't have the SP's into their core to promote that type of game play . I use to look and think , " I still see you while your cloaked and I just know either .. you just started scouting or your a crutch player because a scout is a much harder find . " ... I'm just glad that they killed that glitch about firing during cloak , that was just a cheep tactic for a lot of players and I commend those who didn't do it . I fought a few who I just knew .. held back from that tactic and they were good fights . I like the chevrons but they need to work constantly while looking at opponents . It's an indicator of who is actually placing effort to become stealthy . It needs to show on the mini-map on a constant basis and it just doesn't for me . Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .**
Haerr Legio DXIV 730	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:19:00 - [35] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I am absolutely disgusted by the current 'EWAR' system in DUST. You only have 2 options right now: Be a scout with lots of dampeners. Be perma scanned and expect to be shot every second because of that ***** chevron right above your head. Remove the damn chevrons from TacNet, remove directional arrows from the minimap. This wallhack-like BS has to stop. You are right about about the lack of nuances being a problem. Not scanned / scanned with the Cloak Fields dampening effect being the only modifier leaves us with an overly simplistic system. Remove chevron from the TacNet while not in line of sight. Remove directional arrows from the minimap while not in line of sight. Sounds more fair to me There are ways of making the current system more interesting without getting to hung up on EVE: Legion. Modifiers could be added as bonus and penalties to range, precision and profile on different modules / equipment (variants). I am not sure of whether or not the current mechanics support having modifiers on weapons or actions. But with the Silenced MagSec it seems like it is at least being considered. Having a scan time to be detected would also be a nice addition. (You have to remain for ~X.X [depending on much of a difference between precision and profile there is] secs in range of a scan to be detected.) Adding falloff to precision would also be a great addition. I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V**, no jk.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1837	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:29:00 - [36] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Saw this just after I got done crunching some of the numbers myself, I'd say I'm...somewhat pacified. These numbers are about the best the balance could get under the current scanning system, but don't get my wrong, that's not saying much. The system itself is terribly flawed, so the best I was hoping for was the general vicinity of balance, and this seems to deliver that. So, I'm not exactly happy with it, but I understand that this is probably the best we're going to get without client updates. We are very happy to hear that "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Legio DXIV 730	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:38:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Saw this just after I got done crunching some of the numbers myself, I'd say I'm...somewhat pacified. These numbers are about the best the balance could get under the current scanning system, but don't get my wrong, that's not saying much. The system itself is terribly flawed, so the best I was hoping for was the general vicinity of balance, and this seems to deliver that. So, I'm not exactly happy with it, but I understand that this is probably the best we're going to get without client updates. We are very happy to hear that What would you think of adding a variant of the Cloak Field that has a higher dampening effect but a penalty to scan precision and scan range? I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1839	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:48:00 - [38] - Quote I would honestly like to start with a big white paper, and all the possible scanning and dampening possibilities, and see it visualized as overlapping circles that I can drag and drop and play with. Worse dampening the further out on the circle radius is a beautiful way to mix strong precision, amplification and even regulators to lessen the outskirt penalty. But this isn't happening right now, if ever "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Legio DXIV 730	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:55:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: snipBut this isn't happening right now, if ever That is okay for Dust but surely there is still time to do something like that for Legion? I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
M Zwei Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 32	Posted - 2014.05.26 11:04:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: pÇÇ-snip- But this isn't happening right now, if ever as tierside in Legion, it would be better to make an scanning overhaul.

Scottie MaCallan Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 76	Posted - 2014.05.26 15:51:00 - [41] - Quote Dear CCP Rattati, I've fallen in love w/ u bby. Plz say tthey're going to put you in charge @ legion when yr done with this
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3267	Posted - 2014.05.26 16:37:00 - [42] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: Thank you CCP for this nerf,..now I can finaly stop playn this game,and go to dark souls 2. It is soooooooooo good. Still not sure why the Caldari scout didn't get it's scan precision nerfed. I guess PC will still be squads of 4 Gal Sentinels, a Caldari scout with max range and damps(so the entire squad can see every single thing on the map no matter what) and a Logi of mixed races. Usually Gal or Min. Edit:I may be jumping the gun a bit here. Is Cal scout losing radius or precision? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5784	Posted - 2014.05.26 17:40:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I would honestly like to start with a big white paper, and all the possible scanning and dampening possibilities, and see it visualized as overlapping circles that I can drag and drop and play with. Worse dampening the further out on the circle radius is a beautiful way to mix strong precision, amplification and even regulators to lessen the outskirt penalty. But this isn't happening right now, if ever Legion, brosef. Also, elaborate on your idea - it sounds interesting but I'd like to hear more. Sounds distinctly like the proposal to have Precision Falloff over Range, but... different =P Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards Primus Federation 267	Posted - 2014.05.26 19:46:00 - [44] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: Thank you CCP for this nerf,..now I can finaly stop playn this game,and go to dark souls 2. They just keep kicking the player base in the teeth,please go on tell me how legion will be better CCP - Breaking the game one update at a time. (-í° -£-û -í°)
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 574	Posted - 2014.05.26 20:49:00 - [45] - Quote The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1864	Posted - 2014.05.26 23:57:00 - [46] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal SMB, it certainly was impressive and Haerr's spreadsheet just makes my day, along with Ghaz crunching numbers on the PLC comparison. It's inspiring to see the community be so dedicated. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Legio DXIV 744	Posted - 2014.05.27 21:03:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal SMB, it certainly was impressive and Haerr's spreadsheet just makes my day, along with Ghaz crunching numbers on the PLC comparison. It's inspiring to see the community be so dedicated. Hey thanks man! btw I would like to suggest 0-7.5-15 for STD-ADV-PRO Cloak fields. Updated OP with: Auto sorting & auto colouring scan table. User guide: Make a copy of it. Approve the script to run before changing things. Tools -> Script editorGÇª -> Run Go to the 'input' sheet. Change a number that has a black background. Go to the 'table' sheet and check out what happened. Notes: The sheet names are used in the script so if you change their names you will break the script. Google Docs: LINK I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Haerr Legio DXIV 750	Posted - 2014.05.28 17:40:00 - [48] - Quote I made a misstake in how the game handles rounding - the tables have been updated so if you have download them just refresh them from the links. I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 82	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:01:00 - [49] - Quote Haerr wrote: I made a misstake in how the game handles rounding - the tables have been updated so if you have download them just refresh them from the links. Edit1: Oh and I introduced a bug when I redid the table for hotfix alpha, it's been fixed so if you already made a copy of the google docs spreadsheet just go to the link and make a new copy. Is this updated with your/new hotfix alpha finale proposal 0-7.5-15?
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2465	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:07:00 - [50] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ Apparently in this scenario the Cal scout is running at least 3 precision enhancers? That is not gimping itself? The Gallente have no real argument if the Caldari have to gimp themselves to find the Gal. Plus to have any success running the Caldari scout you are going to have to run range enhancers meaning you have very little tank and are weak in combat. Now the other scouts are screwed and have legitimate arguments, but not the Gal. The only difference is that the Cal will be better in a group because of shared passive scan. Just drop shared passive and I think we are solid in the Gal vs Cal argument. You're avoiding the fact that it's not one suit, but it's every last one. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2465	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:09:00 - [51] - Quote Also, scanning =/= EWAR. Stop misusing the damn term............. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Haerr Legio DXIV 754	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:18:00 - [52] - Quote Xx-VxF-xX wrote: Haerr wrote: I made a misstake in how the game handles rounding - the tables have been updated so if you have download them just refresh them from the links. Edit1: Oh and I introduced a bug when I redid the table for hotfix alpha, it's been fixed so if you already made a copy of the google docs spreadsheet just go to the link and make a new copy. ~~Is this updated with your/new hotfix alpha finale proposal 0-7.5-15?~~ Nice Job. ~~It is with 0-5-10, the difference you are seeing is from using round instead of roundup.~~ I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 159	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:37:00 - [53] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ The problem arises when a Gal pro scanner lights that caldari scum up like a christmas tree and the scout dies. Well, it's a problem for the people relying on the Cal scout anyways.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 293	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:48:00 - [54] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal could not said it more, let the module speak, not the easy kill predator ***** using shotgun. This will make the game more mature, and less look like a wall hacked game !
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2467	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:59:00 - [55] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal could not said it more, let the module speak, not the easy kill predator ***** using shotgun. This will make the game more mature, and less look like a wall hacked game ! You talk about mature, yet your grammar says otherwise. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 293	Posted - 2014.05.28 20:04:00 - [56] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Gelhad Thremyr wrote: SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal could not said it more, let the module speak, not the easy kill predator ***** using shotgun. This will make the game more mature, and less look like a wall hacked game ! You talk about mature, yet your grammar says otherwise. lol, the frustration from an old Quake 3 player sorry, I played Counter strike way back when it was just beginning in the second beta, and god did I saw Wall hacks on Half-life before punk buster came, honestly, the cloak is fun and I see its use defensively more than offensively, its so frustrating to get one shot killed in any game, I am happy to see the changes. Im generally also happy that scouting will become less of a FOTM cause their dumb advantages, as pointed by judge radhamantus :)
Cyrus Militani Leon Conglomerate 96	Posted - 2014.05.28 20:42:00 - [57] - Quote Thank you for the tables. The post hotfix numbers look very encouraging! This is how it should have been from the beginning.
Haerr Legio DXIV 758	Posted - 2014.05.29 08:06:00 - [58] - Quote Updated the google docs: * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Precision Enhancers for Cal Scout * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Profile Dampeners for Gal Scout (Previously fixed:) (* Changed ROUNDUP to ROUND) (* ADV & PRO cloaks used their own bonus + the one to STD cloaks) I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 681	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:03:00 - [59] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ This would require a Caldari scout to run 3 Complex Precision Enhancers. Seems to be fair to me. GalScout gives up 3 low slots for dampeners instead of armor to be unseen while the CalScout gives up 3 high slots for precision enhancers instead of shields to see. Both suits are gimping themselves out of EHP, playing the true scout game. GalScout will no longer be able to EHP stack and be completely invisible to all scans. It will bring purpose to using a cloak as well, and being smart and situational about it. Not to mention a GalScout right now can easily scan all other suits that aren't using dampeners, while being completely invisible and stacking 600-700+ EHP.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 681	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:06:00 - [60] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: So, an Amarr Scout, with a Proto Cloak active and two Complex Dampeners fit to the suit, will be able to get under a Caldari Scout with two Precision Enhancers and a Gallente Logi using Focused Scans? Or am I looking at the wrong color or something? I'm in the same boat as you. That table is incredibly confusing, or I'm just incredibly dumb. It really could go either way at this point.

voidfaction Void of Faction 244	Posted - 2014.05.30 10:32:00 - [61] - Quote Haerr wrote: Updated the google docs: * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Precision Enhancers for Cal Scout * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Profile Dampeners for Gal Scout (Previously fixed:) (* Changed ROUNDUP to ROUND) (* ADV & PRO cloaks used their own bonus + the one to STD cloaks) bonus to efficacy on precision / profile mods? Not that i'm against the idea if you mean the scout bonuses changing to give efficacy to mods vs the flat bonus we get now. I don't think the assault scouts would like it, lol
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5606	Posted - 2014.05.30 10:49:00 - [62] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I like this. I mean I still wont play the game anymore, but I do like the initiative. No suit should be completely unscannable. If someone is going to cripple their suits offensive capabilities to be a radar man, they should be able to do exactly that. But if someone's crippling their suit's offensive capabilities to be invisible, that shouldn't be allowed? Why not? If one guy sacrifices everything for invisibility, and another guy sacrifices everything for sight, who should win? You can't say "I gave up everything to see, I deserve to see everyone" without acknowledging the exact same argument for the guy who equally "deserves" to be hidden from everyone. Keep the dampening reduction on Scouts, but remove the tiered advantage on cloaks and make ALL OF THEM provide 15% dampening bonus. Or give back the dampening we had pre-Alpha on the suits, and make cloaks provide 10% across the board. With minor rebalancing of precision stats, this would mean that the best stealth suit will be able to SOMETIMES hide from the best scanning suit, but not forever. That seems like a fair compromise to me.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5606	Posted - 2014.05.30 10:54:00 - [63] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Also, scanning =/= EWAR. Stop misusing the damn term............. Scanning isn't the entirety of what EWAR can encompass, but it is a PART of the concept. EWAR is Electronic WARfare. A large part of that is detecting targets and the effort to evade such detection. That isn't all EWAR is, but that doesn't mean scanning isn't EWAR. Saying scanning isn't EWAR is like saying a lion isn't a feline. Not all felines are lions, but that doesn't mean the reverse has to be true.
Haerr Legio DXIV 759	Posted - 2014.05.30 14:55:00 - [64] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Haerr wrote: Updated the google docs: * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Precision Enhancers for Cal Scout * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Profile Dampeners for Gal Scout (Previously fixed:) (* Changed ROUNDUP to ROUND) (* ADV & PRO cloaks used their own bonus + the one to STD cloaks) bonus to efficacy on precision / profile mods? Not that i'm against the idea if you mean the scout bonuses changing to give efficacy to mods vs the flat bonus we get now. I don't think the assault scouts would like it, lol Added it for those who wanted to play with it. Figured why not, since it was a simple copy&paste + find&replace. I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Titus Stryker Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 365	Posted - 2014.05.30 19:40:00 - [65] - Quote Haerr wrote: Old Table: Table for 1.8 New Table: Table for hotfix Alpha Gallente Scout 15% Profile Dampening bonus (Used to be 25%) Columns are: N = No Cloak Field S = Standard Cloak Field (0% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) A = Advanced Cloak Field (5% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) P = Prototype Cloak Field (10% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%) Pale Green = 0 Complex Profile Dampeners Green = 1 Complex Profile Dampeners Cyan = 2 Complex Profile Dampeners Blue = 3 Complex Profile Dampeners Purple = 4 Complex Profile Dampeners Pink = 5 Complex Profile Dampeners Source: LINK Update: Auto sorting & auto colouring scan table. User guide: Make a copy of it. Approve the script to run before changing things. Tools -> Script editorGÇª -> Run Go to the 'input' sheet. Change a number that has a black background. Go to the 'table' sheet and check out what happened. Notes: The sheet names are used in the script so if you change their names you will break the script. Google Docs: LINK might be helpful to have the key in the document itself and not just this thread... I stream DUST on YouTube
trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 164	Posted - 2014.05.30 20:16:00 - [66] - Quote All we need now is for cloaks to give a 50% penalty to scans when active and we'll be good. Then Gals gotta be invisible to be invisible on the map, and the Cal's gotta be visible to see people on the map. ;) RIP MAG, you will be missed. MAG Vet ~ Raven
Haerr Legio DXIV 768	Posted - 2014.06.07 16:41:00 - [67] - Quote Updated the OP with a legend because of reasons. I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Haerr Legio DXIV 798	Posted - 2014.06.10 09:50:00 - [68] - Quote Updated the tables with: Added heavy-5cPEs, scout4,5cPEs, calscout5cPEs. Updated the google docs with: Added table_2 sheet which displays more numbers. (The background colour is still fixed to how many dampeners it would require to hide in game from the scanners.)


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