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Scan Table for Hotfix Alpha

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 788	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:37:00 - [31] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: I've never been a fan of shared passive, always seemed like that was stepping on the toes of active scanners. That is NOT the reason you use the Cal suit, you use it to see your opponent. You should have to verbally communicate with your squad to indicate enemy position. This would go a long way in balancing active scanners too. Active scanners were nerfed so much that anything would have " stepped on there toes " because they were basically made useless . Now with the changes .. hopefully that will change as well . That's the Caldari scouts job , they are not strong scouts in the least and definite not as strong as Gal or Amarr scouts and Minmatar scouts are the assassins , so that was their thing .. " shared intel " and now you want to eliminate that ... the ONLY THINGthat they have going for them . To use promoting active scanners just sounds good but it seems like you are just hurt and would like others to feel the pain that you do now . I've never been a fan of FOTM and now with and from those complaining , I can see who actually plays scout because they generally don't care enough to pout and claim conspiracy ... they look at what they are given and make the most of it . They are generally use to getting screwed but scouts are now in a better place than they once were and they understand that . True scouts are some of the toughest players in this game ... hands down if you ask me . Leave the passive scan , it's what they do . I don't just use the suit for myself but for those who are around me as well , I'm not a scout but I'm not that much of a scrub either .. it's nice to have players feel like what your doing is useful , you know pointing out opponents ... but now that has changed for them enough without people now wanting to eliminate that from their job ... which is their job and they don't do too much of anything else . Caldari scouts are weak . Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1651	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:15:00 - [32] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I like this. I mean I still wont play the game anymore, but I do like the initiative. No suit should be completely unscannable. If someone is going to cripple their suits offensive capabilities to be a radar man, they should be able to do exactly that. I would have to agree with this. It is not perfect, but I think it is better than the current circumstances, and is definitely better than an oversimplified, over heavy nerf. And since we have no idea if they will be able to adjust the scanning mechanics for Dust, I think this is the best of a bad situation. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 483	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:31:00 - [33] - Quote I am absolutely disgusted by the current 'EWAR' system in DUST. You only have 2 options right now: Be a scout with lots of dampeners. Be perma scanned and expect to be shot every second because of that ******* chevron right above your head. Remove the damn chevrons from TacNet, remove directional arrows from the minimap. This wallhack-like BS has to stop. Scouts everywhere, game's unplayable. @JebusMcKing
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Honor of the Fallen Biomassed. 789	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:20:00 - [34] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I am absolutely disgusted by the current 'EWAR' system in DUST. You only have 2 options right now: Be a scout with lots of dampeners. Be perma scanned and expect to be shot every second because of that ***** chevron right above your head. Remove the damn chevrons from TacNet, remove directional arrows from the minimap. This wallhack-like BS has to stop. The TacNet sucks and is in no way a real factor . I drive vehicles and pilot derps and half the time the signatures do not show up for me ... especially vehicles . Half the time they are dark shadows that I have to actually think to myself , " Oh .. there's a enemy vehicle " , because it's black but my team mates signatures show up just fine for me ... I'm really not trying to see my team rather the opposition and their vehicles . Passive scanners are uninformative unless your going scout E-war ... so I guess that's working as intended . No knock on that from me . Truthfully , I started to get tired of seeing these players who thought they were invisible but didn't have the SP's into their core to promote that type of game play . I use to look and think , " I still see you while your cloaked and I just know either .. you just started scouting or your a crutch player because a scout is a much harder find . " ... I'm just glad that they killed that glitch about firing during cloak , that was just a cheep tactic for a lot of players and I commend those who didn't do it . I fought a few who I just knew .. held back from that tactic and they were good fights . I like the chevrons but they need to work constantly while looking at opponents . It's an indicator of who is actually placing effort to become stealthy . It needs to show on the mini-map on a constant basis and it just doesn't for me . Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .**
Haerr Legio DXIV 730	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:19:00 - [35] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: I am absolutely disgusted by the current 'EWAR' system in DUST. You only have 2 options right now: Be a scout with lots of dampeners. Be perma scanned and expect to be shot every second because of that ***** chevron right above your head. Remove the damn chevrons from TacNet, remove directional arrows from the minimap. This wallhack-like BS has to stop. You are right about about the lack of nuances being a problem. Not scanned / scanned with the Cloak Fields dampening effect being the only modifier leaves us with an overly simplistic system. Remove chevron from the TacNet while not in line of sight. Remove directional arrows from the minimap while not in line of sight. Sounds more fair to me There are ways of making the current system more interesting without getting to hung up on EVE: Legion. Modifiers could be added as bonus and penalties to range, precision and profile on different modules / equipment (variants). I am not sure of whether or not the current mechanics support having modifiers on weapons or actions. But with the Silenced MagSec it seems like it is at least being considered. Having a scan time to be detected would also be a nice addition. (You have to remain for ~X.X [depending on much of a difference between precision and profile there is] secs in range of a scan to be detected.) Adding falloff to precision would also be a great addition. I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V**, no jk.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1837	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:29:00 - [36] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Saw this just after I got done crunching some of the numbers myself, I'd say I'm...somewhat pacified. These numbers are about the best the balance could get under the current scanning system, but don't get my wrong, that's not saying much. The system itself is terribly flawed, so the best I was hoping for was the general vicinity of balance, and this seems to deliver that. So, I'm not exactly happy with it, but I understand that this is probably the best we're going to get without client updates. We are very happy to hear that "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Legio DXIV 730	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:38:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Saw this just after I got done crunching some of the numbers myself, I'd say I'm...somewhat pacified. These numbers are about the best the balance could get under the current scanning system, but don't get my wrong, that's not saying much. The system itself is terribly flawed, so the best I was hoping for was the general vicinity of balance, and this seems to deliver that. So, I'm not exactly happy with it, but I understand that this is probably the best we're going to get without client updates. We are very happy to hear that What would you think of adding a variant of the Cloak Field that has a higher dampening effect but a penalty to scan precision and scan range? I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1839	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:48:00 - [38] - Quote I would honestly like to start with a big white paper, and all the possible scanning and dampening possibilities, and see it visualized as overlapping circles that I can drag and drop and play with. Worse dampening the further out on the circle radius is a beautiful way to mix strong precision, amplification and even regulators to lessen the outskirt penalty. But this isn't happening right now, if ever "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Legio DXIV 730	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:55:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: snipBut this isn't happening right now, if ever That is okay for Dust but surely there is still time to do something like that for Legion? I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
M Zwei Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 32	Posted - 2014.05.26 11:04:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: pÇÇ-snip- But this isn't happening right now, if ever as tierside in Legion, it would be better to make an scanning overhaul.

Scottie MaCallan Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 76	Posted - 2014.05.26 15:51:00 - [41] - Quote Dear CCP Rattati, I've fallen in love w/ u bby. Plz say tthey're going to put you in charge @ legion when yr done with this
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3267	Posted - 2014.05.26 16:37:00 - [42] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: Thank you CCP for this nerf,..now I can finaly stop playn this game,and go to dark souls 2. It is soooooooooo good. Still not sure why the Caldari scout didn't get it's scan precision nerfed. I guess PC will still be squads of 4 Gal Sentinels, a Caldari scout with max range and damps(so the entire squad can see every single thing on the map no matter what) and a Logi of mixed races. Usually Gal or Min. Edit:I may be jumping the gun a bit here. Is Cal scout losing radius or precision? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5784	Posted - 2014.05.26 17:40:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I would honestly like to start with a big white paper, and all the possible scanning and dampening possibilities, and see it visualized as overlapping circles that I can drag and drop and play with. Worse dampening the further out on the circle radius is a beautiful way to mix strong precision, amplification and even regulators to lessen the outskirt penalty. But this isn't happening right now, if ever Legion, brosef. Also, elaborate on your idea - it sounds interesting but I'd like to hear more. Sounds distinctly like the proposal to have Precision Falloff over Range, but... different =P Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards Primus Federation 267	Posted - 2014.05.26 19:46:00 - [44] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: Thank you CCP for this nerf,..now I can finaly stop playn this game,and go to dark souls 2. They just keep kicking the player base in the teeth,please go on tell me how legion will be better CCP - Breaking the game one update at a time. (-í° -£-û -í°)
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 574	Posted - 2014.05.26 20:49:00 - [45] - Quote The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1864	Posted - 2014.05.26 23:57:00 - [46] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal SMB, it certainly was impressive and Haerr's spreadsheet just makes my day, along with Ghaz crunching numbers on the PLC comparison. It's inspiring to see the community be so dedicated. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Haerr Legio DXIV 744	Posted - 2014.05.27 21:03:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal SMB, it certainly was impressive and Haerr's spreadsheet just makes my day, along with Ghaz crunching numbers on the PLC comparison. It's inspiring to see the community be so dedicated. Hey thanks man! btw I would like to suggest 0-7.5-15 for STD-ADV-PRO Cloak fields. Updated OP with: Auto sorting & auto colouring scan table. User guide: Make a copy of it. Approve the script to run before changing things. Tools -> Script editorGÇª -> Run Go to the 'input' sheet. Change a number that has a black background. Go to the 'table' sheet and check out what happened. Notes: The sheet names are used in the script so if you change their names you will break the script. Google Docs: LINK I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Haerr Legio DXIV 750	Posted - 2014.05.28 17:40:00 - [48] - Quote I made a misstake in how the game handles rounding - the tables have been updated so if you have download them just refresh them from the links. I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 82	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:01:00 - [49] - Quote Haerr wrote: I made a misstake in how the game handles rounding - the tables have been updated so if you have download them just refresh them from the links. Edit1: Oh and I introduced a bug when I redid the table for hotfix alpha, it's been fixed so if you already made a copy of the google docs spreadsheet just go to the link and make a new copy. Is this updated with your/new hotfix alpha finale proposal 0-7.5-15?
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2465	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:07:00 - [50] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ Apparently in this scenario the Cal scout is running at least 3 precision enhancers? That is not gimping itself? The Gallente have no real argument if the Caldari have to gimp themselves to find the Gal. Plus to have any success running the Caldari scout you are going to have to run range enhancers meaning you have very little tank and are weak in combat. Now the other scouts are screwed and have legitimate arguments, but not the Gal. The only difference is that the Cal will be better in a group because of shared passive scan. Just drop shared passive and I think we are solid in the Gal vs Cal argument. You're avoiding the fact that it's not one suit, but it's every last one. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2465	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:09:00 - [51] - Quote Also, scanning =/= EWAR. Stop misusing the damn term............. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Haerr Legio DXIV 754	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:18:00 - [52] - Quote Xx-VxF-xX wrote: Haerr wrote: I made a misstake in how the game handles rounding - the tables have been updated so if you have download them just refresh them from the links. Edit1: Oh and I introduced a bug when I redid the table for hotfix alpha, it's been fixed so if you already made a copy of the google docs spreadsheet just go to the link and make a new copy. ~~Is this updated with your/new hotfix alpha finale proposal 0-7.5-15?~~ Nice Job. ~~It is with 0-5-10, the difference you are seeing is from using round instead of roundup.~~ I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 159	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:37:00 - [53] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ The problem arises when a Gal pro scanner lights that caldari scum up like a christmas tree and the scout dies. Well, it's a problem for the people relying on the Cal scout anyways.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 293	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:48:00 - [54] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal could not said it more, let the module speak, not the easy kill predator ***** using shotgun. This will make the game more mature, and less look like a wall hacked game !
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2467	Posted - 2014.05.28 19:59:00 - [55] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal could not said it more, let the module speak, not the easy kill predator ***** using shotgun. This will make the game more mature, and less look like a wall hacked game ! You talk about mature, yet your grammar says otherwise. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 293	Posted - 2014.05.28 20:04:00 - [56] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Gelhad Thremyr wrote: SirManBoy wrote: The cry baby scouts in this thread who are threatening to leave the game are hilarious. You guys do realize that you've been on easy street, right? Seriously, your cloaking and dampening BS turned this game into a sequel to Predator. Get over yourselves. To the real scouts out there who understand that this game needs to remain balanced for it to be fair and fun for everyone, thank you for your understanding and maturity. It's nice to see things come closer to being in line with the EWAR proposal I posted more than a month ago. SirManBoy's EWAR Proposal could not said it more, let the module speak, not the easy kill predator ***** using shotgun. This will make the game more mature, and less look like a wall hacked game ! You talk about mature, yet your grammar says otherwise. lol, the frustration from an old Quake 3 player sorry, I played Counter strike way back when it was just beginning in the second beta, and god did I saw Wall hacks on Half-life before punk buster came, honestly, the cloak is fun and I see its use defensively more than offensively, its so frustrating to get one shot killed in any game, I am happy to see the changes. Im generally also happy that scouting will become less of a FOTM cause their dumb advantages, as pointed by judge radhamantus :)
Cyrus Militani Leon Conglomerate 96	Posted - 2014.05.28 20:42:00 - [57] - Quote Thank you for the tables. The post hotfix numbers look very encouraging! This is how it should have been from the beginning.
Haerr Legio DXIV 758	Posted - 2014.05.29 08:06:00 - [58] - Quote Updated the google docs: * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Precision Enhancers for Cal Scout * Added the possibility to put a bonus on efficacy to Profile Dampeners for Gal Scout (Previously fixed:) (* Changed ROUNDUP to ROUND) (* ADV & PRO cloaks used their own bonus + the one to STD cloaks) I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 681	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:03:00 - [59] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Congratulations. Now to avoid being scanned by the Caldari we need 3x complex profile dampeners. ON EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED UNIT. While they can just appoint a scanner Caldari and see everyone who doesn't gimp themselves with damps. See the problem here? ^^@Do NOT with the dampening bonus after you've just ** the cloak bonus@^^ This would require a Caldari scout to run 3 Complex Precision Enhancers. Seems to be fair to me. GalScout gives up 3 low slots for dampeners instead of armor to be unseen while the CalScout gives up 3 high slots for precision enhancers instead of shields to see. Both suits are gimping themselves out of EHP, playing the true scout game. GalScout will no longer be able to EHP stack and be completely invisible to all scans. It will bring purpose to using a cloak as well, and being smart and situational about it. Not to mention a GalScout right now can easily scan all other suits that aren't using dampeners, while being completely invisible and stacking 600-700+ EHP.
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 681	Posted - 2014.05.29 12:06:00 - [60] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: So, an Amarr Scout, with a Proto Cloak active and two Complex Dampeners fit to the suit, will be able to get under a Caldari Scout with two Precision Enhancers and a Gallente Logi using Focused Scans? Or am I looking at the wrong color or something? I'm in the same boat as you. That table is incredibly confusing, or I'm just incredibly dumb. It really could go either way at this point.



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