DUST Search - New PC Numbers: Good bye passive ISK

843 Epidemic wrote:

Kain Spero wrote:

843 Epidemic wrote:

Good to see clone pack price increase, now even less people can afford to get into PC! WOO

I'll post what I put in the feedback thread.

Kain Spero wrote:

Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass.

Some numbers:

3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost

ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK

Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK

The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC.

CEOs still have to organize their members and provide content to keep that corp logging in. I expect that many corps will begin to institute taxes in order to afford clone packs, vehicle replacement programs, player bonuses, etc. The age of ISK going straight to the corp wallet (the directors) from passive and then being doled out to members is indeed coming to an end. The age of 25 to 40m ISK a week paychecks from passive ISK is also coming to an end.

Yeah, IF THEY WIN. What about if the small corporations continuously lose? What's your maths solution then? This isn't about ERA getting back into PC with clone packs, bud. I'm talking about small corporations who want to get their feet wet but are probably going to get beaten around a bit first. They can't even afford to get the **** kicked out of them haha

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Kain Spero 3586	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:05:00 - [1] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=163451&find=unread Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 7593	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:08:00 - [2] - Quote Nyain San must be devastated. New [self proclaimed] CEO of Fatal Absolution 31+ mil SP Scout/Heavy/Logi/ADS pilot for hire (free) in PC
ERMAGERD IM DEAD Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:14:00 - [3] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Nyain San must be devastated. Nah, they have plenty of ISK, and plenty of goons to spambush all day. Don't see them too much in regular matches.
Derrith Erador The Last of DusT. 1913	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:28:00 - [4] - Quote I honestly thought that passive needed a down play, not a complete eradication. Betty White, the worlds hottest grandma.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3128	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:29:00 - [5] - Quote who cares? Most of us have more ISK then they ever could spend. And i can use proto 24/7 and get even or make profit. That means i will probs have 0 isk in like 10 years from now on.
Smoky Fingers Red Star. EoN. 375	Posted - 2014.05.25 05:14:00 - [6] - Quote Passive pc isk got the qq slapstick I see. Kinda like Nova Knife. Flight stick user. Oh well :(
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2281	Posted - 2014.05.25 05:26:00 - [7] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: I honestly thought that passive needed a down play, not a complete eradication. ^ Tanker/Logi
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3090	Posted - 2014.05.25 11:27:00 - [8] - Quote What's the point of conquest then? Bragging rights? Clone pack going up to 150 is good....could cost a little more than $45M though. Removed all hope with this post
Pushing Charlie 89	Posted - 2014.05.25 11:55:00 - [9] - Quote Whats the point of a district? Why don't they just give us corp battles back, instead of just half assing a PC fix. Knight Soiaire Project Beast Hype train comin' through! From Software > CCP
843 Epidemic BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1329	Posted - 2014.05.25 12:00:00 - [10] - Quote Good to see clone pack price increase, now even less people can afford to get into PC! WOO Brb, sister needs the TV

Morathi III Policeman of the Federation 130	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:41:00 - [11] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: What's the point of conquest then? Bragging rights? Clone pack going up to 150 is good....could cost a little more than $45M though. exactly, this is now useless to have more than 3 district and corp more than 50 peeps -What is the goal to be CEO and director if you dont manage economy, its now just a huge job with no advantage -since when in human history owning land dont give you passive income? -being part of elite corp is now useless -they needed to bring corp battle for this, not making PC like this -making a downgrade to passive isk for landing was the true answer -no more big war like in the past with this system the only good point is everybody will be able to participate, but they haved the possbility to just bring back corp battle like i said an other decision by CCP and an other fail
God Hates Lags The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1189	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:02:00 - [12] - Quote Am I the only one who thinks this will be a disaster? Districtless corps are getting shafted big time. Here's how. The pay 45 mill to attack a district, if they win they get some of their money back. If they lose, the lose it all. Now they have to win three times in a row doing this, because what's the point of a production facility now? And if they win, they get to be a district owning corp. This just seems like really weird corp battles where one side doesn't have to ante up anything and the other side doesn't get a full payout upon winning. A better solution would have been for districts to generate resources that Eve players can use/sell. Imo they should just turn the isk faucet back on for as long as dust lasts, then wipe all assets when legion comes and move to a better model. "Look what I destroyed in two days" Kane Spero Wolfica stole my signature
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3589	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:03:00 - [13] - Quote 843 Epidemic wrote: Good to see clone pack price increase, now even less people can afford to get into PC! WOO I'll post what I put in the feedback thread. Kain Spero wrote: Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass. Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC. CEOs still have to organize their members and provide content to keep that corp logging in. I expect that many corps will begin to institute taxes in order to afford clone packs, vehicle replacement programs, player bonuses, etc. The age of ISK going straight to the corp wallet (the directors) from passive and then being doled out to members is indeed coming to an end. The age of 25 to 40m ISK a week paychecks from passive ISK is also coming to an end. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Fiddlestaxp TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 959	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:12:00 - [14] - Quote Seems like a pretty reasonable fix. Oh, Kane Spero posted the link? I AM OUTRAGED. WORST CHANGES EVER.
Morathi III Policeman of the Federation 130	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:46:00 - [15] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: 843 Epidemic wrote: Good to see clone pack price increase, now even less people can afford to get into PC! WOO I'll post what I put in the feedback thread. Kain Spero wrote: Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass. Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC. CEOs still have to organize their members and provide content to keep that corp logging in. I expect that many corps will begin to institute taxes in order to afford clone packs, vehicle replacement programs, player bonuses, etc. The age of ISK going straight to the corp wallet (the directors) from passive and then being doled out to members is indeed coming to an end. The age of 25 to 40m ISK a week paychecks from passive ISK is also coming to an end. all this change will help the communty and the number of player and corp to be involve in PC, thats true and its great too. My biggest problem is more What that really gave to be good in PC? in my book nothing. Maybe we will see player base more interested and staying so for that i will be ok for now, i just feel they need to give something like random production in material ( suit, gun, tank module ) per district, not a lot but just to keep interested in holding and expand. with the new change that appear like Corp battle in chrome to me, thats better than the current stuation to be honest but can be better too
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8846	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:54:00 - [16] - Quote Wouldn't it make more sense to include custom clone packs? You could pay for each clone individually, but at 300k a pop. That way you could select the amount of clones you need, without having to worry about an expensive cost of admission. However, there would need to be a minimum of clones you'd have to purchase. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8846	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:56:00 - [17] - Quote Fiddlestaxp wrote: Seems like a pretty reasonable fix. Oh, Kane Spero posted the link? I AM OUTRAGED. WORST CHANGES EVER. Your doing it wrong. Your supposed to say that it's only a weak attempt at meta, while shouting about how Kain's a liar and that he lies about everything he does. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 586	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:17:00 - [18] - Quote Fiddlestaxp wrote: Seems like a pretty reasonable fix. Oh, Kane Spero posted the link? I AM OUTRAGED. WORST CHANGES EVER. Nah it does seem ok. i think the changes are probably good for some corps and bad for corps farming isk it get rich. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 607	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:55:00 - [19] - Quote The future of PC will consist of the 4-5 top corps in the game raiding inferior corps with MLT gear to steal their ISK and loot. This is a terrible change, and I can't conceive of how it makes sense except to make everyone poor and fuel AUR purchases. Now there is NO escaping the ISK grind in this game.
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 346	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:56:00 - [20] - Quote Reserved so I can QQ later after I get some family lunch Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...

843 Epidemic BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1334	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:23:00 - [21] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: 843 Epidemic wrote: Good to see clone pack price increase, now even less people can afford to get into PC! WOO I'll post what I put in the feedback thread. Kain Spero wrote: Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass. Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC. CEOs still have to organize their members and provide content to keep that corp logging in. I expect that many corps will begin to institute taxes in order to afford clone packs, vehicle replacement programs, player bonuses, etc. The age of ISK going straight to the corp wallet (the directors) from passive and then being doled out to members is indeed coming to an end. The age of 25 to 40m ISK a week paychecks from passive ISK is also coming to an end. Yeah, IF THEY WIN. What about if the small corporations continuously lose? What's your maths solution then? This isn't about ERA getting back into PC with clone packs, bud. I'm talking about small corporations who want to get their feet wet but are probably going to get beaten around a bit first. They can't even afford to get the **** kicked out of them haha Brb, sister needs the TV
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3591	Posted - 2014.05.25 22:28:00 - [22] - Quote Nothing will change the fact that if you can't win then you won't earn anything. I can run through the numbers on the current system if you'd like? They are much worse in terms of a corp getting a return on investment. Current numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 36m = 108m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 45m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 100k) = 69m ISK Potential profit after just taking one hub = -39m ISK Days to wait until hub is full = 450 total - 70 remaining from attack / 80 = 5 days Days of full clones without launching attacks needed to make profit for passive generation = 39m Cost / 8.8m ISK in clones sales per day = 5 days That's 10 days you have to hold the district in order to turn a profit in addition to winning the initial matches. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Rich MO-FO Heaven's Lost Property 16	Posted - 2014.05.25 22:29:00 - [23] - Quote 843 Epidemic wrote: Kain Spero wrote: 843 Epidemic wrote: Good to see clone pack price increase, now even less people can afford to get into PC! WOO I'll post what I put in the feedback thread. Kain Spero wrote: Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass. Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC. CEOs still have to organize their members and provide content to keep that corp logging in. I expect that many corps will begin to institute taxes in order to afford clone packs, vehicle replacement programs, player bonuses, etc. The age of ISK going straight to the corp wallet (the directors) from passive and then being doled out to members is indeed coming to an end. The age of 25 to 40m ISK a week paychecks from passive ISK is also coming to an end. Yeah, IF THEY WIN. What about if the small corporations continuously lose? What's your maths solution then? This isn't about ERA getting back into PC with clone packs, bud. I'm talking about small corporations who want to get their feet wet but are probably going to get beaten around a bit first. They can't even afford to get the **** kicked out of them haha I'll be stupid and do this, add more types of clone packs 100 man for 30 Mill 45 for 150 man My Alts are in Real corps
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1828	Posted - 2014.05.25 22:48:00 - [24] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=163451&find=unread Still a douche... CEO Whiskey squad leader, E9 , patiently waiting for Destiny and Planetside2, real games... Once Bitten Twice Shy....
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3592	Posted - 2014.05.25 23:38:00 - [25] - Quote Rich MO-FO wrote: I'll be stupid and do this, add more types of clone packs 100 man for 30 Mill 45 for 150 man The problem with this is that it would require UI in order to select the different size packs which means it would require a client side change, which isn't a possibility right now. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3011	Posted - 2014.05.26 00:37:00 - [26] - Quote WOW! Kane just killed PC Again... The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 314	Posted - 2014.05.26 00:47:00 - [27] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: WOW! Kane just killed PC Again... How do you pronounce your name bro? Saying what's on people's minds
Rich MO-FO Heaven's Lost Property 16	Posted - 2014.05.26 01:55:00 - [28] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: WOW! Kane just killed PC Again... How do you pronounce your name bro? Badass ************, also Lord of the Forums does well. My Alts are in Real corps
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2594	Posted - 2014.05.26 02:08:00 - [29] - Quote Pushing Charlie wrote: Whats the point of a district? Why don't they just give us corp battles back, instead of just half assing a PC fix. Because bringing back corp battles isn't possible with the remaining devs on DUST. But they can basically use these changes to turn PC into corp battles. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 352	Posted - 2014.05.26 02:35:00 - [30] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Pushing Charlie wrote: Whats the point of a district? Why don't they just give us corp battles back, instead of just half assing a PC fix. Because bringing back corp battles isn't possible with the remaining devs on DUST. But they can basically use these changes to turn PC into corp battles. But its not Corp battles are X corp puts up Z money While Y corp puts up Z money And winner takes all PC is now Corp X pays 135 million-450 million ISK to flip a cargo hub Flips it And then sits And waits And then they send off 250 clones to flip a district Fail They get attacked by Corp Y Corp Y takes weakened district Corp X gets fu**** and leaves PC for a month because they are out of money I know most of the people in here has hundreds of millions if not billions of ISK but these smaller corps barely have 100 mil isk in the corp wallet If they get kicked out of PC its game over Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...



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