So basically this is going to be the same redundant thread that will populate members the likes Mary Lilac. ResistanceGTA. Alabastor...basically the usual suspects.

Why?

Because it wasn't the poor leadership, horrific code, inability to have a transparent communication with the community, or terrible gear/item balancing that caused DUST 514 to fail.

It was obviously a failure because it was on a console with these filthy "console peasants" mucking it up.

Why?

Because it wasn't the poor leadership, horrific code, inability to have a transparent communication with the community, or terrible gear/item balancing that caused DUST 514 to fail.

It was obviously a failure because it was on a console with these filthy "console peasants" mucking it up.

Loved the edit.

That's it........let the smugness flow through you.

You do realize that I'm being sarcastic right?

Only a misguided fool would think that their gaming preference makes them superior to another. The same could be said about personal preferences in general.

Not to mention, everyone on these forums is a "console peasant" (apologies for the derogative), otherwise you wouldn't be able to post here in the first place.

You do realize that I'm being sarcastic right?

Only a misguided fool would think that their gaming preference makes them superior to another. The same could be said about personal preferences in general.

Not to mention, everyone on these forums is a "console peasant" (apologies for the derogative), otherwise you wouldn't be able to post here in the first place.

In fact in another thread I was farming the PC haters tears while you simultaneously farmed console haters tears lol.

And I'd really love if this thread didn't end up like the others. I'd just love if anybody could give me a good reason. For me, it's a nonsense . Even more so, considering we started playing this game on a ps3.

Also, edited the OP.

IGÇÖm getting personally very excited for the PlayStation 4. For all the softballs Microsoft is throwing [Sony's] way, theyGÇÖre knocking them out of the park. ItGÇÖs kind of amazing. The whole thing with the 8GB of GDDR5 memory is you can make pretty amazing games with that memory architecture. I think itGÇÖs going to be important in the future, rather than the CPU and the GPU. It gives you an easy path just to update the graphics just through increasing the texture resolution. I think thatGÇÖs hugely exciting.

When you read these kind of things then...

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/06/25/ccp-ceo-ps4s-8gb-ddr5-ram-to-be-important-in-the-future-hugely-exciting/

Legion is just a prototype on PC, it may well release on PS4 when its actually out. Valkyrie started off as just a PC prototype, but when the project got really serious, it got announced for PS4.

Ok, I understand that, but...why? From what I understand of Economics, and, believe me if I tell you that I do understand Economics, it's a faulty move.

- Tons of other well established MMOFPS on PC
- Hundreds of MMOs
- Less total audience

- Most important, never mix up someone who can actually cheat / have better input devices with someone who can't in a competitive game.

I do endorse Eve Legion Project, it looks cool and, besides, it's the game that should have been on console, but let's just move on and try to stay on topic.

They are essentially tripping over a dollar to pick up a penny..

I do agree on that, but I don't think they don't have enough money. More than 500.000 subscribers are not a joke after all.

Oh I think they have plenty as well.

Also, where do you think the trainwreck of a development team that developed Incarna went to after that fiasco? IF you guessed Dust I bet you are right.

I believe the whole PC encompasses their vision being better realized on a platform that they started off with in the first place.

I rather CCP be on grounds that are familiar instead of one that is unfamiliar. I want to see the idea of mercenaries on ground that are involved in the New Eden universe materialize into something greater than it is now. If that means it going to PC so that can come into fruition, so be it.

I still can't understand why CCP decided to move the game on PC exclusive instead of improving, deleting and remaking or anything else on console. Someone please enlighten me.

- On a first thought, the only reason that came up to my mind was the inability to code for Playstation 3, which is a totally avoidable problem considering PS4 is just as dev-friendly as a PC. (even more, actually)

- Then I thought about Sony QA. But, again, this is a non-problem, considering it would take no more than 7 days. Also, Warframe is a great example of how well MMOs patching works for PS4.

- Sales says that Sony is leading the new-gen market with more that 7 mlns PS4 already sold, increasing at a constant rate. (http://www.vgchartz.com)

- A console in general gives you a more competitive gameplay: everyone's on the same system, with the same input. Impossible to use aimbot / hack in online games.

- It cost less. You can actually build a performing PC for a few more, but if you want to exactly replicate a PS4 hardware you'd spend much more.

So, why?

1. They can more easily control what goes into the game and pace of updates if the game is on PC.

2. They can charge subscription fees on PC.


Munch

Legion is just a prototype on PC, it may well release on PS4 when its actually out. Valkyrie started off as just a PC prototype, but when the project got really serious, it got announced for PS4.

And I'd really love if this thread didn't end up like the others. I'd just love if anybody could give me a good reason. For me, it's a nonsense . Even more so, considering we started playing this game on a ps3.

Also, edited the OP.

Playerbase.

PC is friendlier to Eve players, who are their demographic here, and it being a freetoplay...
Well, PC is home of the F2P, in the end.

And, of course, Sony was cutting a lot of red tape in the first place for CCP; I wouldn't be surprised if some of that red tape was part of the reasons for DUST's subpar nature...

I think that should answer you? In the end, though, this is all speculation in my part.

And, of course, Sony was cutting a lot of red tape in the first place for CCP; I wouldn't be surprised if some of that red tape was part of the reasons for DUST's subpar nature...

I think that the 80 millions ps3 plan was not a bad plan after all. It would have been the first free to play MMOFPS on console. People tried it, did not like it and left. If they did a better job, even only on advertisement, fun and balancing, the player base would be the usual fps player base for a console, let's say it could easily be the initial Mag's 7000 players at any given hour. That's the player base they should have aimed for in my opinion, not eve players on another platform.

They're simply repeating history: making a more "user-friendly" skill tree, where weapons, equipments etc are locked for any class, and considering that any weapon, drop suit etc will be a BPO, they're actually making it a mag's / BF's clone, skill tree wise. In other words, it's yet another free to play MMOFPS with some sandbox elements, yet another FPS on a hugely inflated platform. By the time it comes out, they'll probably have to deal with some colossus like Star Citizen, No Man's Sky and Everquest Next, just to name a few.
That's not my point of view, it's actually the truth: moving to PC, for this reason is totally wrong.



If Sony has to guarantee at least the playability of a product, we all should be graceful to Sony. Even if it was true, it's not even Sony's fault if the patches and stuff didn't work well on PS3.

80M PS3s sold.

I know a couple of guys who are on their third PS3.

One of them doesn't play it anymore.

Saying '80M potential customers xDxDxD' is misleading at best.

Report: Global PC games market bigger, free-to-play still profitable

Just by the numbers on the graph I would say the answer is obvious. CCP wants to break into the F2P market on the PC where there is already a considerable fanbase that is willing to pay to play and wants a chance to stretch their legs rather than power up their spaceships.

Just because I really like seeing the raw data for this year alone I have another link you may find interesting: Computers sold this year worldwide

What too many people are failing to see is that the potential market for PS4/XB1 users is large but the PC market is much more vast, in 2009 the 2 billion mark was passed for PC sales. This year alone when last I checked the number of PCs sold (this year) was well over 107 Million and climbing, many of which have adequate hardware to play Eve.

Now that the numbers are out of the way for computers around the globe, I will add a few more to the mix, 11 years experience in maintaining, creating and balancing their PC game, Eve Online.

Anymore questions about why?

Report: Global PC games market bigger, free-to-play still profitable

Just by the numbers on the graph I would say the answer is obvious. CCP wants to break into the F2P market on the PC where there is already a considerable fanbase that is willing to pay to play and wants a chance to stretch their legs rather than power up their spaceships.

Just because I really like seeing the raw data for this year alone I have another link you may find interesting: Computers sold this year worldwide

What too many people are failing to see is that the potential market for PS4/XB1 users is large but the PC market is much more vast, in 2009 the 2 billion mark was passed for PC sales. This year alone when last I checked the number of PCs sold (this year) was well over 107 Million and climbing, many of which have adequate hardware to play Eve.

Now that the numbers are out of the way for computers around the globe, I will add a few more to the mix, 11 years experience in maintaining, creating and balancing their PC game, Eve Online.

Anymore questions about why?

According to Gartner Dataquest's statistics, in April 2002 the billionth personal computer was shipped. The second billion mark was supposedly reached in 2007.

But how many computers are actually in use? According to a report by Forrester Research, there were over one billion PCs in use worldwide by the end of 2008.

And with PC adoption in emerging markets growing fast, it is estimated that there will be more than two billion PCs in use by 2015, Forrester predicts. Therefore, whereas it took 27 years to reach the one billion mark, it will take only 7 to grow from 1 billion to 2 billion.

Also, please don not transform this thread in yet another PC vs console. I want a reason for Dust/Legion swapping platforms. The only plausible one I've read is the monthly fee thing. Although monthly fee can be applied on Sony's platform, I'm pretty confident the console player base wouldn't pay a monthly fee for Legion. Eve player base maybe would, who knows.

I think that is about it, we have already established that Dust in no way shape or form maxes out the PS3, and that there is an immense amount of optimization that *could* be performed. We have plenty of examples of being able to get more players online, making biger and more detailed maps, running better with more on screen....

We know that EvE has lower minimum requirements than the PS3. So CCP definitely knows how to work within system restraints.

I really think the ONLY plausible scenerio is that CCP honestly believes that the majority of the code-base can just be recycled using a brute-force technique on the PC.

Every time they add anything to Dust, performance suffers some. IF they decide to continue with this horribly optimized code, they will need to be able to continually increase the minimum requirements. This method will only be supported on the PC platform. Of course this just sounds like a completely boneheaded move.

It actually makes tons of sense. CCP submits a new patch to sony, sony then rejects it because it melts PS3s, CCP has to rewrite the code, resubmit, and so on. This is why it took forever for CCP to get content out, why they had to pull the new maps, and why they want to get away from any quality control that Sony has.

You can also see evidence of what decent code monkies can churn out, look at warframe. They can write a patch, submit it to sony and have it out within a week because the code will pass QA.

TLDR: CCP cannot write code that will pass Sony QA without getting kicked back a few times, something the majority of other developers can do.

The whole thing with the 8GB of GDDR5 memory is you can make pretty amazing games with that memory architecture. I think itGÇÖs going to be important in the future, rather than the CPU and the GPU. It gives you an easy path just to update the graphics just through increasing the texture resolution. I think thatGÇÖs hugely exciting.

One can only conclude that none of you understand business or statistics.

You do realize that I'm being sarcastic right?

Only a misguided fool would think that their gaming preference makes them superior to another. The same could be said about personal preferences in general.

Not to mention, everyone on these forums is a "console peasant" (apologies for the derogative), otherwise you wouldn't be able to post here in the first place.

Why take Tech seriously....? He is like Sprk

Because the console doesnt have a nice big population of fanboys to pat their heads and tell them everything they are doing is ok

even after 2 weeks you still haven't figured out that PC is a far superior platform compared to the PS3?

Why PC?

Test server

Well, that's actually a point, the first point I see, but is it really worth it (always considering the OP)?

Well, that's actually a point, the first point I see, but is it really worth it (always considering the OP)?

Can you imagine how many problems could have been avoided if we could have tested new patches in a live environment prior to release?

I would say, yes... its worth it. I would suspect that CCP feels that way as well.

Let me summarize everything.

Dust got released.

Looked horrible, graphics wise, but it wasn't terrible. At least it was fun.

When it was turning out to be a grind doing the same thing over and over again, CCP started releasing monthly updates. Most were bug patches, but you got the Scrambler Rifle and the Flaylock Pistol.

Then, you got all the Rifles and pistols, along with all the suits (except pilot) and the Caldari SMG.

Before even 1.5, the community started saying how well Dust would be if CCP made it for PC. Hell, even I agreed. PC allowed more freedom in terms of development.

Fast forward a few months, and Dust was announced for PC. Players got mad. Their problems were stemmed from the fact that CCP would discontinue development for an old system and took the chance of going PC, even though there are players who spent 100+ dollars on this game.

Thing is, the community wouldn't have gotten so mad if CCP actually did a keynote on Dust and only teased Legion. Another thing is that not even CCP knows what's going to be the link from Dust to Legion and all the silence is keeping us nervous. Players should be rewarded for testing Legion with Dust and spending money it because they thought they were supporting a game that was advertised to last 10 years or so.

Now, players are quitting once again (first wave was Uprising) and others are calling them names.

Things started to quiet a bit recently and moving on to different/better games. This whole ordeal could've been dodged if CCP held on to project Legion and did an actual Dust keynote, only showing Legion when they have an actual product out and solid plans for it and a transfer system.

Perfect, now we can have an healthy discussion.

I don't think it's worth it, simply because in my opinion (and yes, I'm speculating hard) there could be a test server on PS4 too, I mean, there's nothing circumventing it.

[
Cept the bills

This requires having to do a submission to Sony qa every test build this also means that CCP must pay Sony for store shelf of two games now Dust 514 and Dust 514 Test. and possibly more if more than one thing needs testing; currently eve online juggles singularity; multiplicity; and duality as test servers each running on different hamster wheels. So that's 4 clients I don't think the community can be bothered to work with. True we can stick to one to being logical but testing still takes it own qa and may just lag up the development to content delivery times even further.

In theory yes you can have a test server on a console environment. Is it practical? According to warframe so far; no and they use the pc as the test client and still mess things up on the ps4 side which can take a week to clear up.

Overall though CCP should monitor Warframe's patching strategy as warframe builds closer to lockstepping both of their clients. It suchs thier ps4 version is a month behind on many things and warframe is now providing Sony with the new level of mmo headaches and growing pains as dust 514 is no longer leading the charge on that.

Slight correction Uprising 1.0 was considered the screwup that lead to the monthly patches to try to FIX the game.

And I'd really love if this thread didn't end up like the others. I'd just love if anybody could give me a good reason. For me, it's a nonsense . Even more so, considering we started playing this game on a ps3.

Also, edited the OP.

I'll have to admit it, this complicates a bit everything.
Still, I'm pretty confident that Legion on PS4 would cover the cost of the test server still making a good revenue. Moreover, such a big project, would surely enjoy some "special" benefits (regarding the test server, for example). After all, if Legion goes well, even Sony goes well.

If you don't understand by now you never will. That's part of the problem - the myopic console community.

We can speculate that all day. The reality is, CCP looks at its assets and its dev team and decided that the PC was a better choice for them at this time. That's pretty much the end of it.

We don't know everything about the development of Dust 514 or Legion, and any speculation you really want to make remains grossly uninformed at best.

1. Sony's not strict on updates anymore, they can easily do the same on PS4

and

2. lol

Wait, Dust is being ripped away from the PS3?

1. True.

2. I guess they can lol all the way to the bank?


Munch

No, at least, not officially. There still will be some kind of balance tweak and anything that can be done server-side. No client update anyway (there will never be a 1.9, in other words)

I'm willing to bet sony would refuse a test server... Even if it was viable.

More like "we're not promising 1.9"

CCP has pretty much admitted failure with Dust only thing they can do is release the EXACT same game on PC with minor differences and hopefully trick the community into giving more $$$ for a year or two if CCP is lucky.

Extinguish the flame please ...

- Faster update cycle - in PC they can patch something in minutes, on the PS, days; also, way cheaper as its independant of Sony

It is cheaper, but it also does not guarantee numbers, players. Considering that there are plenty of MMOson PC, even if the PC gaming community were doubled it still does not guarantee the minimum player count a console has.

Ender: Player count wasnt my point here, but Pcs is pretty high as well, and who knows, penetration is better than raw total market. Anyway, my point here is that they can evolve the game freely, without any 3rd party in the middle of the process. For a MMO rapid iteration is important.

- Test server: players can connect to it and test the next build;

We vastly talked about it some posts above yours.

Ender: I fully know, but since i am listing my reasons, it goes. And holds true.

- Flexible hardware: PC's have more memory capabilities than PS4 (8gb shared between OS, game, and graphics)

sorry for the fix, but PCs might have more memory capabilities than PS4: still it's not the same memory usage you'll have on a PC. Windows is much heavier RAM-wise

Ender: From the PS4 memory, citations will vary, but most accounts range the OS usage on the PS4 around 1/3 because its reserved for other applications. While on the PC, besides the low memory consumption (it alone will use about 1gb or less), you can have more that 8gb of ram. Most normal PC builds nowadays will have 16gb.

My old trash has 4gb, I have W7, EVE, Chrome with 10 tabs, voice coms chat and text chat applications running with 3gb of ram.

So, windows wont hog your ram that much, and W8 seems to be lighter on resources.

- Better community tools: on PC its easier for players to get together thru a pleathora of 3rd party tools and the web. On the PS things like that takes more work. Like, its way easier to place Legion + EVE players under the same comms than with PC + PS3/4.

Well, it's simply not.We all use the same voice chat. If I'm not wrong we all already use vivox servers for Eve/dust Dust/Dust etc. But, yes, maybe third party tools are definitely much easier to build on PC.

Ender: i wasnt aware of vivox, its cool that it exists and is cross platform. But what if the alliance on EVE uses Mumble or Teamspeak or other app, can you install it on the PS3? While having an app, dosent sound theres much freeedom of choice.

- Generation independancy: CCP wont have to make a new game when the PS5 comes out. On PC games can be continue without much hastle. With a PS5 in the future, there might be all the headackes of migration of the player base.

Which will always happen with PCs. It can easily be done the same way on consoles. Download a client on PS4 and the same client with "pumped up" graphics and gameplay on PS5, for example. That was the plan when they started it for PS3.

Ender: that dosent happen with the PC. You can change your PC, but the game stays the same. Theres no need to migrate the playerbase or wory about people being in 2 different platforms (like PS3 vs PS4, or PS4 vs PS5 in the future) or developing an entire new game thats basically the same as the actual game. One system may be radically diferent from the other. The new system may use functionality that isnt present on the older system. In the process, you loose players that wont migrate to the newer platform.

So, while yeah, you can download the new client and people can buy the new console of in the even they might care for maintaining the 2 systems active in parallel, the operation is much more seamless in the PC, as the platform and the game "never changes", only trully evolves. The maximum that can happen in the long run is to setup your graphics at a lower level.

- Better graphics: the actual generation of PC's already excel the PS4 graphical capabilities, wich are "simplified" in orther to cut back on power consumption;

This might be true but unprecise: it's way too soon to spectate the real power of next gen consoles (considering that all the titles use at best 1/4 of PS4 graphical capabilities), we always should keep in mind that a Gaming PC is one thing, with its costs and its needs, a PC is another.

Man, theres no hiddeen performance to be unveiled, its not the same scenario of PS3 launch. It uses a HD 7870. Which is a mid-level gpu, and the "nest-gen" to it is already old news in the PC world.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

- Better revenue: theres no Sony taking its cut on sales;

True that, but also less audience.

Ender: thats to be seen. base installed is good, but what will speak in the end is total players playing. If Legion can catch more people, it wont matter whats the size of the total player base of the platform.

- Better Staff experience(maybe): while the PS4 is technicaly a PC, it has other OS, so if your staff yhas more expertise in programing for the PC, making it over windows / DX10-11 may be easier than developing for the PS4 to an extent.

Maybe that's one focal point, yes.

If I'm not mistaken, Warframe already has a test server on PS4,and so does BF4 on PS4.

You can also see evidence of what decent code monkies can churn out, look at warframe. They can write a patch, submit it to sony and have it out within a week because the code will pass QA.

TLDR: CCP cannot write code that will pass Sony QA without getting kicked back a few times, something the majority of other developers can do.

IF the platform holders (Sony & Microsoft) allow us to update the code and data without restrictions and odious time consuming [quality control] procedures, IF they allow our community to openly interact with each other across platforms then I would CONSIDER supporting them.[...] As for which platform we would consider Sony has been the most outright in encouraging us to test dev kits.

The only thing I can think of then is that they want their game on the PC first. They are PC game developers after all... so its not a big stretch to conclude that.

This Article is why CCP is losing a great opportunity: they're developing something new, that people would definitely try out. Sony would reach its best in terms of PS4 sold in Christmas time, when the price would drop a little bit.

If the proportion is still the same (7/3) there would be 21 millions PS3 and 9 millions Xone, Even if I think that the proportion would change a bit (whoever studied/studies statistical analysis knows that).

An analysis of any of the many Economists at CCP would be gladly appreciated.

On 27 June 2007 CCP announced that an economist had been employed[16] to assist in the development of the economic side of the game. Dr. Eyj+¦lfur Gu+¦mundsson is responsible for compiling quarterly economic reports for the community and providing ongoing analysis of the economic facets of Eve, along with coordinating research with other interested parties.[17][18] Information from Dr. Gu+¦mundsson's reports has been used to make some development decisions regarding the economy. For example, in his second dev blog post[19] he observed that availability of shuttles for a fixed price from NPC merchants, which could then be recycled into tritanium (a saleable mineral), placed an artificial cap on the price of tritanium, indirectly impacting the price of every good manufactured using tritanium (which is almost all of them). This eventually led to a decision to remove NPC sell orders for shuttles.[20]

This Article is why CCP is losing a great opportunity: they're developing something new, that people would definitely try out. Sony would reach its best in terms of PS4 sold in Christmas time, when the price would drop a little bit.

I do agree on that, but I don't think they don't have enough money. More than 500.000 subscribers are not a joke after all.

Doesn't matter how much income they make, it's about profit margins. Being cheap = a better profit margin, which is what CEO's are hired for

- Sales says that Sony is leading the new-gen market with more that 7 mlns PS4 already sold, increasing at a constant rate. (http://www.vgchartz.com)

You know, the one thing I don't get is from a marketing point of view. Here they are on the ps3, being the number 1 f2p on the ps3, and they're jumping ship to PC. Where on PC they will be over looked as a FPS since it's not on Steam and everyone else will be playing RTS, MMORPGs, and random AOS/Tower Defense knock offs. Oh, and facebook games. Sure, they have their fanbase from Eve that can fill up some of the gaps, but I don't see how they will expand their base and increase revenue with this move. Pretty much just sounds like an Expansion Pack for Eve.

You know, the one thing I don't get is from a marketing point of view. Here they are on the ps3, being the number 1 f2p on the ps3, and they're jumping ship to PC. Where on PC they will be over looked as a FPS since it's not on Steam and everyone else will be playing RTS, MMORPGs, and random AOS/Tower Defense knock offs. Oh, and facebook games. Sure, they have their fanbase from Eve that can fill up some of the gaps, but I don't see how they will expand their base and increase revenue with this move. Pretty much just sounds like an Expansion Pack for Eve.

They explained: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2138585#post2138585

Why PC first? For a few different reasons... It's a scalable platform. We can go high spec for the most demanding players in terms of Gfx, but we can also scale down to low/mid spec to get critical mass. It's also a good platform for the early stage of a project like ours. You can test and balance the game and the economy quite easily with fast turn-arounds. We can set people up in testing environments easily (eg. ISD in EVE). If you've seen the "CCP Presents" presentation on Saturday at Fanfest, there was a talk about CCP refocusing on its core tech competency, which is PC. It allows in the future the creation of a "universe" of products on the same platform.

Many EVE players thought that CCP jumped ship to consoles first and they welcome the return. The fact of a small company developing games on multiple platforms just adds work without necessarily adding profits. The PS3 is a small underpowered console and the video card of many modern PCs contain more memory than the entire PS3. The PS4 is turning out to be more expensive to develop for (as is the X1) and that would be a huge negative for the decision. At least it would to me.

I do agree on that, but I don't think they don't have enough money. More than 500.000 subscribers are not a joke after all.

I find it VERY HARD to beleive that CCP has 500k subscribers 'right now'...... NOT POSSIBLE!!!!
That is the total number EVER subscribed.
MAX 30,000 eve players any given time. (average) those numbers have been FALLING!
As a side note, I created FREE accounts to troll EVE. You can get FREE time trials online.
Don't believe a word out of CCP's mouth. LIES LIES LIES!
If you want to look at the REAL numbers, CCP financial statements are also on line.
These clowns dropped a LOT OF LOOT into WOD......
LMAO.......EPIC FAIL

To be honest, subscribers count is not exactly how many players actually play the game, but the number of people that subscribed (in other words, the number of players paying a monthly fee). In a game like Eve, some people just activate their account and just let it gain skill points, logging in once every two-three day, until there's something big happening.

To be honest, subscribers count is not exactly how many players actually play the game, but the number of people that subscribed (in other words, the number of players paying a monthly fee). In a game like Eve, some people just activate their account and just let it gain skill points, logging in once every two-three day, until there's something big happening.