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Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1441	Posted - 2014.05.14 10:38:00 - [1] - Quote There's been a lot of debate over which is the superior platform, so I'm here to give you an unbiased look at the differences between the PC and the two major next-gen consoles. Graphics First off, let's compare the graphics between the three consoles. The PlayStation 4 consistently provides higher resolution for the same framerate over the Xbox One, and the numbers show why: the GPU of the PlayStation 4 has a theoretical peak performance of 1.84 teraflops, compared to the theoretical peak performance of 1.31 teraflops of the Xbox One. The PC is undoubtedly the strongest of the three, however, with many graphics cards easily exceeding those numbers. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the PS4 in 2nd place and the XB1 in 3rd place. *Cost of Platform* Perhaps more important to some than graphics is cost. The PlayStation 4 provides decent performance for the relatively small sum of $400, making it the cheapest option for those who still want good graphics. The Xbox One costs 25% more than the PlayStation 4 at $500, while providing slightly weaker graphics. A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it. While a hand-built $500 gaming PC might not be top-of-the-line, it should provide adequate power to readily play most games released on next-gen consoles. In this category, the PS4 takes 1st place, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PC in 3rd place. Peripherals Another important factor would be peripherals. Surprisingly, the PlayStation 4 seems to have a wider range of peripherals than the Xbox One; whereas the Xbox One only has Kinect in addition to its standard controller, the PlayStation 4 has the PlayStation Move, supports using the PlayStation Vita to play PlayStation 4 games, and soon will have "Project Morpheus" which will allow it to support virtual reality gaming. The PC, of course, blows the other two out of the water with the widest range of available peripherals ever. Too many to list, too many to count. PC takes 1st place, followed by the PS4 in 2nd and XB1 in 3rd. Library This is a little bit trickier than the other categories, but after I going through a complete list of games released on both next-gen consoles I have come to a conclusion. The Xbox One... has a better library than the PlayStation 4. It has far more relevant exclusives than the PlayStation 4 as of now. Objectively speaking, that is. Subjectively speaking, it depends on what you like. Don't take my word for it, go look at the libraries and come to your own conclusion. However, the library of the PC is superior to that of either consoles. It's not a fair comparison to make, as the PC has been around far longer and is the platform on which most games are developed, even among console developers. But still, PC takes 1st place, followed by the XB1 in 2nd and the PS3 in 3rd. Secondary Uses And by "secondary uses", I am referring to doing things other than gaming. The Xbox One, proclaimed by Microsoft to be an "all-in-one entertainment system", allows for the watching of TV, using Skype, browsing the web, watching video and listening to music, also coming with a built-in Blu-ray player. The PlayStation 4 is also capable of many of these things, though to a more limited extent. The PC, being a PC, is far superior to both consoles when it comes to non-gaming uses. Very few other devices are needed if you have a good PC. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PS4 in 3rd place. Ease of Use Consoles, by their nature, are usually easier to use than PCs. I can't actually say for certain whether the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One are easier to use than the PC, and I can't compare the two consoles as that would require owning both of them, but I'm going to go off on a limb and guess that the PC takes 3rd place, or 2nd place if the two consoles are tied, based on past experience with other consoles. None of them are particularly difficult to use, though. I would continue, but that would require me owning both next-gen consoles. Also, I'm close to the character limit. And I am being totally unbiased. Totally. Unbiased. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
TheDarthMa94 The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 297	Posted - 2014.05.14 10:54:00 - [2] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: There's been a lot of debate over which is the superior platform, so I'm here to give you an unbiased look at the differences between the PC and the two major next-gen consoles. Graphics First off, let's compare the graphics between the three consoles. The PlayStation 4 consistently provides higher resolution for the same framerate over the Xbox One, and the numbers show why: the GPU of the PlayStation 4 has a theoretical peak performance of 1.84 teraflops, compared to the theoretical peak performance of 1.31 teraflops of the Xbox One. The PC is undoubtedly the strongest of the three, however, with many graphics cards easily exceeding those numbers. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the PS4 in 2nd place and the XB1 in 3rd place. *Cost of Platform* Perhaps more important to some than graphics is cost. The PlayStation 4 provides decent performance for the relatively small sum of $400, making it the cheapest option for those who still want good graphics. The Xbox One costs 25% more than the PlayStation 4 at $500, while providing slightly weaker graphics. A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it. While a hand-built $500 gaming PC might not be top-of-the-line, it should provide adequate power to readily play most games released on next-gen consoles. In this category, the PS4 takes 1st place, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PC in 3rd place. Peripherals Another important factor would be peripherals. Surprisingly, the PlayStation 4 seems to have a wider range of peripherals than the Xbox One; whereas the Xbox One only has Kinect in addition to its standard controller, the PlayStation 4 has the PlayStation Move, supports using the PlayStation Vita to play PlayStation 4 games, and soon will have "Project Morpheus" which will allow it to support virtual reality gaming. The PC, of course, blows the other two out of the water with the widest range of available peripherals ever. Too many to list, too many to count. PC takes 1st place, followed by the PS4 in 2nd and XB1 in 3rd. Library This is a little bit trickier than the other categories, but after I going through a complete list of games released on both next-gen consoles I have come to a conclusion. The Xbox One... has a better library than the PlayStation 4. It has far more relevant exclusives than the PlayStation 4 as of now. Objectively speaking, that is. Subjectively speaking, it depends on what you like. Don't take my word for it, go look at the libraries and come to your own conclusion. However, the library of the PC is superior to that of either consoles. It's not a fair comparison to make, as the PC has been around far longer and is the platform on which most games are developed, even among console developers. But still, PC takes 1st place, followed by the XB1 in 2nd and the PS3 in 3rd. Secondary Uses And by "secondary uses", I am referring to doing things other than gaming. The Xbox One, proclaimed by Microsoft to be an "all-in-one entertainment system", allows for the watching of TV, using Skype, browsing the web, watching video and listening to music, also coming with a built-in Blu-ray player. The PlayStation 4 is also capable of many of these things, though to a more limited extent. The PC, being a PC, is far superior to both consoles when it comes to non-gaming uses. Very few other devices are needed if you have a good PC. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PS4 in 3rd place. Ease of Use Consoles, by their nature, are usually easier to use than PCs. I can't actually say for certain whether the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One are easier to use than the PC, and I can't compare the two consoles as that would require owning both of them, but I'm going to go off on a limb and guess that the PC takes 3rd place, or 2nd place if the two consoles are tied, based on past experience with other consoles. None of them are particularly difficult to use, though. I would continue, but that would require me owning both next-gen consoles. Also, I'm close to the character limit. And I am being totally unbiased. Totally. Unbiased. I don't care to be honest, as long they have good games and make me happy, i'm happy with any platform... Director of NAO "People are always telling me how lucky I am. But the truth is, everything I touch turns to shit"
Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 544	Posted - 2014.05.14 10:54:00 - [3] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1442	Posted - 2014.05.14 10:55:00 - [4] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2099	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:01:00 - [5] - Quote You say Xbox One has the better library, but from what I could find just now Wiki seems to be saying Xbox One currently has 42 games (9 exclusives) while the PS4 currently has 71 games (10 exclusives). Only based on that I can't really see how the Xbox One can have the better library. Furthermore, Wiki also says there's far more PS4 games currently planned (exclusives too) than Xbox One games. Of course you could be talking about the quality of the games released, but that will always be your own opinion only. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 544	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:01:00 - [6] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. The best gaming laptop/desktop on the market and should not be taken seriously? Thats a new one..
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1442	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:05:00 - [7] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. The best gaming laptop/desktop on the market and should not be taken seriously? Thats a new one.. If you think that's the best gaming PC on the market, you've been misled. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 544	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:06:00 - [8] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. The best gaming laptop/desktop on the market and should not be taken seriously? Thats a new one.. If you think that's the best gaming PC on the market, you've been mislead. Whats the best gaming pc/laptop out there?
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1442	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:08:00 - [9] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Whats the best gaming pc/laptop out there? The ones that you build yourself. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1442	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:09:00 - [10] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: You say Xbox One has the better library, but from what I could find just now Wiki seems to be saying Xbox One currently has 42 games (9 exclusives) while the PS4 currently has 71 games (10 exclusives). Only based on that I can't really see how the Xbox One can have the better library. Furthermore, Wiki also says there's far more PS4 games currently planned (exclusives too) than Xbox One games. Of course you could be talking about the quality of the games released, but that will always be your own opinion only. A lot of those games most people haven't even heard of. I'm talking about relevant titles, after all. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.

Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 544	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:12:00 - [11] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Whats the best gaming pc/laptop out there? The ones that you build yourself. You can build your own Alienware like most other PC-¦s. What are you talking about? Alienware is a monster machine. Top of the range AW costs 3000$ plus. A little bit more expensive than a top of the range gaming console (PS4 for 400$).
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2100	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:13:00 - [12] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: A lot of those games most people haven't even heard of. I'm talking about relevant titles, after all. So you're excluding certain games based on your own opinion then? Hardly objective then. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1442	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:17:00 - [13] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Whats the best gaming pc/laptop out there? The ones that you build yourself. You can build your own Alienware like most other PC-¦s. What are you talking about? No, what are you talking about? Choosing which parts you want does not constitute "building". Bendtner92 wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A lot of those games most people haven't even heard of. I'm talking about relevant titles, after all. So you're excluding certain games based on your own opinion then? Hardly objective then. Not my opinion, the opinion of the masses. Totally different. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Samael Artico Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:28:00 - [14] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A lot of those games most people haven't even heard of. I'm talking about relevant titles, after all. So you're excluding certain games based on your own opinion then? Hardly objective then. It's impossible to objectively judge a game, and as such it's impossible to objectively judge a game library. He probably meant "for most people", rather than "objectively speaking".
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 684	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:36:00 - [15] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: There's been a lot of debate over which is the superior platform, so I'm here to give you an unbiased look at the differences between the PC and the two major next-gen consoles. Graphics First off, let's compare the graphics between the three consoles. The PlayStation 4 consistently provides higher resolution for the same framerate over the Xbox One, and the numbers show why: the GPU of the PlayStation 4 has a theoretical peak performance of 1.84 teraflops, compared to the theoretical peak performance of 1.31 teraflops of the Xbox One. The PC is undoubtedly the strongest of the three, however, with many graphics cards easily exceeding those numbers. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the PS4 in 2nd place and the XB1 in 3rd place. *Cost of Platform* Perhaps more important to some than graphics is cost. The PlayStation 4 provides decent performance for the relatively small sum of $400, making it the cheapest option for those who still want good graphics. The Xbox One costs 25% more than the PlayStation 4 at $500, while providing slightly weaker graphics. A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it. While a hand-built $500 gaming PC might not be top-of-the-line, it should provide adequate power to readily play most games released on next-gen consoles. In this category, the PS4 takes 1st place, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PC in 3rd place. Peripherals Another important factor would be peripherals. Surprisingly, the PlayStation 4 seems to have a wider range of peripherals than the Xbox One; whereas the Xbox One only has Kinect in addition to its standard controller, the PlayStation 4 has the PlayStation Move, supports using the PlayStation Vita to play PlayStation 4 games, and soon will have "Project Morpheus" which will allow it to support virtual reality gaming. The PC, of course, blows the other two out of the water with the widest range of available peripherals ever. Too many to list, too many to count. PC takes 1st place, followed by the PS4 in 2nd and XB1 in 3rd. Library This is a little bit trickier than the other categories, but after I going through a complete list of games released on both next-gen consoles I have come to a conclusion. The Xbox One... has a better library than the PlayStation 4. It has far more relevant exclusives than the PlayStation 4 as of now. Objectively speaking, that is. Subjectively speaking, it depends on what you like. Don't take my word for it, go look at the libraries and come to your own conclusion. However, the library of the PC is superior to that of either consoles. It's not a fair comparison to make, as the PC has been around far longer and is the platform on which most games are developed, even among console developers. But still, PC takes 1st place, followed by the XB1 in 2nd and the PS3 in 3rd. Secondary Uses And by "secondary uses", I am referring to doing things other than gaming. The Xbox One, proclaimed by Microsoft to be an "all-in-one entertainment system", allows for the watching of TV, using Skype, browsing the web, watching video and listening to music, also coming with a built-in Blu-ray player. The PlayStation 4 is also capable of many of these things, though to a more limited extent. The PC, being a PC, is far superior to both consoles when it comes to non-gaming uses. Very few other devices are needed if you have a good PC. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PS4 in 3rd place. Ease of Use Consoles, by their nature, are usually easier to use than PCs. I can't actually say for certain whether the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One are easier to use than the PC, and I can't compare the two consoles as that would require owning both of them, but I'm going to go off on a limb and guess that the PC takes 3rd place, or 2nd place if the two consoles are tied, based on past experience with other consoles. None of them are particularly difficult to use, though. I would continue, but that would require me owning both next-gen consoles. Also, I'm close to the character limit. And I am being totally unbiased. Totally. Unbiased. you also forgot a couple of factors. How much would it cost to build a pc that can perform just as well as a ps4? Including the overhead of a windows OS. And 1 are that a console will always win in. Anti cheat technology. Sony and MS lock down the OS making cheating on either console very difficult. Cheating on a PC will always be easy by comparison.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2100	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:36:00 - [16] - Quote Samael Artico wrote: It's impossible to objectively judge a game, and as such it's impossible to objectively judge a game library. He probably meant "for most people", rather than "objectively speaking". He has no sources for what "most people" believe. That makes it entirely subjective. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1455	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:40:00 - [17] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: you also forgot a couple of factors. How much would it cost to build a pc that can perform just as well as a ps4? And here I thought that was included in the "Cost" category. Thurak1 wrote: And 1 are that a console will always win in. Anti cheat technology. Sony and MS lock down the OS making cheating on either console very difficult. Cheating on a PC will always be easy by comparison. Personally, I've never encountered any cheating problems in an online PC game. And since I don't own a PS4 and XB1, I don't know how prevalent cheating and exploits are on those, either. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Samael Artico Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:41:00 - [18] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Samael Artico wrote: It's impossible to objectively judge a game, and as such it's impossible to objectively judge a game library. He probably meant "for most people", rather than "objectively speaking". He has no sources for what "most people" believe. That makes it entirely subjective. Yes. As I have said, it's impossible to be objective when it comes to people's opinions.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2100	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:43:00 - [19] - Quote Samael Artico wrote: Yes. As I have said, it's impossible to be objective when it comes to people's opinions. I do agree with that, which is why he shouldn't even try to compare the library of the two consoles at this point, but merely state that the library of the PC library is wider and better. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 685	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:47:00 - [20] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Thurak1 wrote: you also forgot a couple of factors. How much would it cost to build a pc that can perform just as well as a ps4? And here I thought that was included in the "Cost" category. Thurak1 wrote: And 1 are that a console will always win in. Anti cheat technology. Sony and MS lock down the OS making cheating on either console very difficult. Cheating on a PC will always be easy by comparison. Personally, I've never encountered any cheating problems in an online PC game. And since I don't own a PS4 and XB1, I don't know how prevalent cheating and exploits are on those, either. Really none? I find that hard to believe. I play COD tf2 super monday night fights and there are always some cheaters out there and they are painfully obvious most often. And no you glazed over the point in the cost catagory. You gave a price range but you did not say if it competed with a ps4. I can build a computer for about 300$ from the floor up but it wont run games worth a dam. Lets not forget just for the OS you are going to spend roughly 100$ depending on which flavor of windows you use. So for a 400$ rig you have about 300$ to spend on hardware. I can spend that on just a good power supply and case. I think 600$ is closer but i still think its an under-estimate.

Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1202	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:48:00 - [21] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: There's been a lot of debate over which is the superior platform, so I'm here to give you an unbiased look at the differences between the PC and the two major next-gen consoles. Graphics First off, let's compare the graphics between the three consoles. The PlayStation 4 consistently provides higher resolution for the same framerate over the Xbox One, and the numbers show why: the GPU of the PlayStation 4 has a theoretical peak performance of 1.84 teraflops, compared to the theoretical peak performance of 1.31 teraflops of the Xbox One. The PC is undoubtedly the strongest of the three, however, with many graphics cards easily exceeding those numbers. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the PS4 in 2nd place and the XB1 in 3rd place. ... And I am being totally unbiased. Totally. Unbiased. You have totally ignored the primary advantage of consoles, which is their unified architecture. This means devs can put far more optimization effort into console games. Compare performance of any recent AAA game on X360/PS3 with performance on equivalent hardware in a PC. Your mid-spec 2005/2006 PC with original components will either not run current games or run them at lower settings, lower frame rate, or with more torn frames. Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. I'm particularly amused by people who think they can put a new mid-level GPU on their motherboard that was designed in the mid 2000s and think they have a rig that will be competitive with PS4s for years to come, just because they have similar or higher teraflops. It's like putting a Mercedes formula 1 engine on a lawnmower and thinking you can challenge for the world championship. So to summarize, if you were being impartial about graphical performance (Gëáteraflops) it would be something like: Top of the line gaming PC > PS4 > 90%+ current gaming PCs
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1691	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:50:00 - [22] - Quote using your 6 criteria it comes down yet again to "library" which is ones own personal tatse. which if it's consoles for the better exclusives IMO, as both a PC and console gamer. sorry, mmo and moba and indies don't do it for me. That leaves it 3-3. tie. lol
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1456	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:52:00 - [23] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: snip Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. Surt gods end wrote: using your 6 criteria it comes down yet again to "library" which is ones own personal tatse. which if it's consoles for the better exclusives IMO, as both a PC and console gamer. sorry, mmo and moba and indies don't do it for me. That leaves it 3-3. tie. lol Most console games are not exclusive to the console. Even games that are exclusive to one console are usually also available on the PC. Not to mention the PC has a massive amount of old titles that are still great, as well as new strategy titles which almost never come to consoles. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2100	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:55:00 - [24] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. As he said, those truly great games will come in a few years once the developers are familiar enough with the console just like on the PS3 with The Last of Us for example. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1456	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:56:00 - [25] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. As he said, those truly great games will come in a few years once the developers are familiar enough with the console just like on the PS3 with The Last of Us for example. We'll just have to wait and see, then. Though I think the PS3 is a bad example. It was originally sold at (adjusted for inflation) twice as much as the PS4 and at a loss because the hardware was so expensive. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2100	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:58:00 - [26] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: We'll just have to wait and see, then. Though I think the PS3 is a bad example. It was sold at (adjusted for inflation) twice as much as the PS4 and at a loss because the hardware was so expensive. I wasn't talking about the price of the PS3 or anything, but merely that the truly great games won't happen until the developers are familiar enough with the console. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1691	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:58:00 - [27] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: snip Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. Wait to E3. Graphics tho I always give to my rig mind you against ps3 and xbox 360. later on I think I might have to upgrade for her to keep up with the ps4. Infamous and kz4 teased a bit what the ps4 can do, and that is far from that system hitting it's peak. IMO tho Consoles always got the better exclusives.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1457	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:02:00 - [28] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: snip Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. Wait to E3. Graphics tho I always give to my rig mind you against ps3 and xbox 360. later on I think I might have to upgrade for her to keep up with the ps4. Infamous and kz4 teased a bit what the ps4 can do, and that is far from that system hitting it's peak. IMO tho Consoles always got the better exclusives. As you would disregard indie games and strategy games, I can see why you think that. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1202	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:08:00 - [29] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: snip Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. Well PS2 will be at 1080p and max settings. That's more than 90% of PCs can manage. You might say 'that's because PS2 is horribly optimized on PC', but that's the whole point. It is simply not economic to put a lot of optimization effort into every PC hardware/software combination.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1458	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:11:00 - [30] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: snip Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. Well PS2 will be at 1080p and max settings. That's more than 90% of PCs can manage. You might say 'that's because PS2 is horribly optimized on PC', but that's the whole point. It is simply not economic to put a lot of optimization effort into every PC hardware/software combination. 90% of PCs and 90% of gaming PCs are two very different things, Herr Ryme. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.

Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2102	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:21:00 - [31] - Quote @OP Since you seem to insist on the Xbox One having a better library than the PS4, then please list what games you deem "relevant" and why that means the library on the Xbox One is better. Looking at the games I get something like this: Xbox One: Titanfall. Dead Rising 3. Forza Motorsport 5. Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare. PS4: Infamous: Second Son. Killzone: Shadow Fall. Resogun. Don't Starve. Flower. Edit: And furthermore the PS4 has more games overall than the Xbox One. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1203	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:21:00 - [32] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: snip Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. Well PS2 will be at 1080p and max settings. That's more than 90% of PCs can manage. You might say 'that's because PS2 is horribly optimized on PC', but that's the whole point. It is simply not economic to put a lot of optimization effort into every PC hardware/software combination. 90% of PCs and 90% of gaming PCs are two very different things, Herr Ryme. True, but I meant 'That's more than 90% of gaming PCs can manage'. Which I think is also true.
Frame Halgorbor Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 18	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:24:00 - [33] - Quote firstly... omg trolls Try not quote a whole 5 page essay and just comment I agree pc will always be king... but, ccp screwed us promised many thing and knew they could not deliver ie 514 I will join legion, good post... subjective
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1203	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:24:00 - [34] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: snip Come now, Ryme, do you really believe the PlayStation 4 is that powerful? Give me proof that the PlayStation 4 is that powerful in practice rather than theory and I'll change my mind. Wait to E3. Graphics tho I always give to my rig mind you against ps3 and xbox 360. later on I think I might have to upgrade for her to keep up with the ps4. Infamous and kz4 teased a bit what the ps4 can do, and that is far from that system hitting it's peak. IMO tho Consoles always got the better exclusives. As you would disregard indie games and strategy games, I can see why you think that. I tried playing the PS3 version of Civilization once [shudders]. So yeah, PCs have their advantages, no doubt. I think with FPS it's more of a personal preference, whereas some genres have a natural home on one platform or the other (e.g. strategy on PC, fighting games on consoles).
Izlare Lenix Arrogance. Caps and Mercs 570	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:34:00 - [35] - Quote Alienware comps are good, but just like Apple, they are overpriced and you are paying extra for the brand name. You could build a much better performing computer for less money if you built it versus buying an Alienware. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Virtual Riot Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 411	Posted - 2014.05.14 13:51:00 - [36] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Whats the best gaming pc/laptop out there? The ones that you build yourself. You can build your own Alienware like most other PC-¦s. What are you talking about? Alienware is a monster machine. Top of the range AW costs 3000$ plus. A little bit more expensive than a top of the range gaming console (PS4 for 400$). Alienware is the Apple of gaming computers. Overpriced junk that people think is good because of hype Fixing FGs > all
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2543	Posted - 2014.05.14 14:05:00 - [37] - Quote When it comes to gaming libraries, the PlayStation 2 blows all of the consoles out of the water.
Nstomper Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 573	Posted - 2014.05.14 14:08:00 - [38] - Quote when it comes to the playstation and xbox i dont choose one or the other because ive had all ps's and xbox's (not including the next gen consoles) because to me its adds a more variety of console games instead of just having a ps or xbox. Now when it comes to pc that is where it kind of throws me off, sure pc has alot of games that consoles will never get like black desert online :'( but i just do not see myself playing on pc. I do have a laptop though i use it mostly for art purposes, adobe flash , photoshop, illustrator, toon boom, 3ds max etc... i do play aqworlds or epic duel on the laptop and i make fan art (weapons and armor) on flash and then show the devs of those games my work in hopes one day they will hire me.
Nstomper Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 573	Posted - 2014.05.14 14:16:00 - [39] - Quote I also want to add that the xbox one is going to cos just as much as the ps4 $400 i think in june?
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 126	Posted - 2014.05.14 14:28:00 - [40] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. The best gaming laptop/desktop on the market and should not be taken seriously? Thats a new one.. Alienware is trash.

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1478	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:31:00 - [41] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Samael Artico wrote: It's impossible to objectively judge a game, and as such it's impossible to objectively judge a game library. He probably meant "for most people", rather than "objectively speaking". He has no sources for what "most people" believe. That makes it entirely subjective. I can understand his reasoning. Pure Chess on ps4 is obviously less relevant to most people than Infamous: Second Son, and Battlefield 4 is more important to most people than Strike Suit Zero: Director's Cut. (just games I pulled from my XMB) It is a generalization, but I can understand his thinking. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1139	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:34:00 - [42] - Quote Nstomper wrote: I also want to add that the xbox one is going to cos just as much as the ps4 $400 i think in june? Yep, they realized forcing Kinect on people wasn't the best idea (though developers now have to account for people not having one, so, they can't make them mandatory in major releases). They also dropped the majority of pay-walls. Still wouldn't buy one, mind you. I 'support' EVE:Legion. Since the PS4 is just a dream, make it easy to sell our characters and our Beta access...
JIMvc2 UNREAL WARRIORS 147	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:36:00 - [43] - Quote Who cares about graphics. You know what bothers me the most is when gamers buy a game only for the graphics. Are you that effin stupid. What kills alot of games is when a developer creates a trailer for a game and everyone is all hyped up. The example is BF4. If you run proto gear, prepare to suffer the consequences. You've been warned.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1139	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:37:00 - [44] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Samael Artico wrote: It's impossible to objectively judge a game, and as such it's impossible to objectively judge a game library. He probably meant "for most people", rather than "objectively speaking". He has no sources for what "most people" believe. That makes it entirely subjective. I can understand his reasoning. Pure Chess on ps4 is obviously less relevant to most people than Infamous: Second Son, and Battlefield 4 is more important to most people than Strike Suit Zero: Director's Cut. (just games I pulled from my XMB) It is a generalization, but I can understand his thinking. Even though it is a PS3 game, I'd like to add that Flower looks amazing on my PS4 (call me names if anyone wants, but, TGC made some fun games in my opinion). I 'support' EVE:Legion. Since the PS4 is just a dream, make it easy to sell our characters and our Beta access...
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2106	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:45:00 - [45] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: I can understand his reasoning. Pure Chess on ps4 is obviously less relevant to most people than Infamous: Second Son, and Battlefield 4 is more important to most people than Strike Suit Zero: Director's Cut. (just games I pulled from my XMB) It is a generalization, but I can understand his thinking. I'm fully aware of games not being equally relevant for people, but I don't understand the need to ignore them entirely. Besides, I compared the (seemingly) most relevant games previously in the thread and I fail to see how Xbox One has the better library based on that list (plus the fact that the PS4 also has more games overall). List from earlier in the thread: Bendtner92 wrote: Xbox One: Titanfall. Dead Rising 3. Forza Motorsport 5. Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare. PS4: Infamous: Second Son. Killzone: Shadow Fall. Resogun. Don't Starve. Flower. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1480	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:53:00 - [46] - Quote Fine, guys. I fixed my comments on the game library of each platform. Happy now? I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1694	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:25:00 - [47] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Fine, guys. I fixed my comments on the game library of each platform. Happy now? Actually I completely forgot about the PS NOW. Which will address at being able to play your back log of games on any system. So you might want to put a PC beats consoles FOR NOW there.
Bax Zanith 145	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:33:00 - [48] - Quote Why is it that people always try to compare an apple (PC), and an orange (consuls), to a mithicle unicorn (the one true way)? They didn't die from the cold without They died from the cold within. - James Patrick Kinney
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3351	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:48:00 - [49] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: Why is it that people always try to compare an apple (PC), and an orange (consuls), to a mithicle unicorn (the one true way)? Mythical Console Git gud. Eve Legion FTW!
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 42	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:04:00 - [50] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL!

Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1575	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:21:00 - [51] - Quote Console exclusives >>> PC exclusives Only good games count toward library size.
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 42	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:23:00 - [52] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Console exclusives >>> PC exclusives Only good games count toward library size. I have yet to see a single console exclusive that is objectively mindbogglingly good.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1575	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:23:00 - [53] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 is underperforming? O rly? 1080p at 60fps is more than I need.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1575	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:24:00 - [54] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Console exclusives >>> PC exclusives Only good games count toward library size. I have yet to see a single console exclusive that is objectively mindbogglingly good. I've seen MANY can't say the same about PC
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1482	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:36:00 - [55] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: I can understand his reasoning. Pure Chess on ps4 is obviously less relevant to most people than Infamous: Second Son, and Battlefield 4 is more important to most people than Strike Suit Zero: Director's Cut. (just games I pulled from my XMB) It is a generalization, but I can understand his thinking. I'm fully aware of games not being equally relevant for people, but I don't understand the need to ignore them entirely. Besides, I compared the (seemingly) most relevant games previously in the thread and I fail to see how Xbox One has the better library based on that list (plus the fact that the PS4 also has more games overall). List from earlier in the thread: Bendtner92 wrote: Xbox One: Titanfall. Dead Rising 3. Forza Motorsport 5. Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare. PS4: Infamous: Second Son. Killzone: Shadow Fall. Resogun. Don't Starve. Flower. Edit: I also find it incredibly silly only to compare the current libraries, as I'm sure very few people only look at the current libraries when deciding which console (or PC) to buy. Not-yet released games play a very huge part in this decision and from what I can tell the PS4 will get the better games in the near future. I'm not disagreeing at all that the ps4 has a larger library (also in my opinion a more attractive one, future and present), I also agree with all of your points. I was merely saying that I can understand his reasoning. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 129	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:00:00 - [56] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 is underperforming? O rly? 1080p at 60fps is more than I need. Not on all tittles, also the PS4 graphics card has some things disabled as to conform with the power requirements. For sure it wont have all the whistles and lights turned on as it would be possible with a PC. Does it mean it will suck? Hell no, but in terms of quality its like a mid-PC performance nowadays. Also, please dont spin around the "8 gb ddr5" card around, thats just hype mostly. The cpu dont need all that bus nor DDR5 memory. The gains of faster Ram for the CPU will be mostly marginal, if any at all. So really only the GPU will be be taking advantage of it. On PC the memory is also DDR5 on GPU's, and DDR3 is more than enough for CPU usage. Also, considering the PC's being build nowadays moslty carry 8+ GB of memory, thats a lot better as more ram can indeed benefit performance more than faster ram for gaming. So we have 8gb shared memory on the PS4 (with 1/3 is reserved for the OS, the rest have to be split between the game and the video card) versus 2+ GB dedicated video memory plus 8+GB dedicated system memory. I really dont think the PS4 way of doing things this generation is of any real practical advantage, srly.
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1497	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:04:00 - [57] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. And that's a laptop. Which are pretty much always more expensive. CCP "logic": Why fix something when we can &^%$ all over everyone who believed in us.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2076	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:08:00 - [58] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx Lol not everybody needs a beast gaming rig to run the highest graphics 100% of the time. I have my friend's old gaming rig and I run Diablo 3 at low graphics because it's not something I care about. Cheaper Those Alienware laptops have dual video cards. Not everybody needs that. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
pseudosnipre Fatal Absolution 741	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:12:00 - [59] - Quote When Legion is released in two years you will easily be able to build a PC for $500-$600 that will be far superior to the older PS4 specs. I suggest you buy a strong, mid-tier DESKTOP PC that comes with cpu, mobo, ps, hdd, disc drives, ethernet/wifi, and Operating System. To keep costs down, make sure it has on-board video (video provided by motherboard and not a dedicated graphics card). Then spend $200 on a video card. Cutting edge cards start around $500 and drop to $200 after a year or so...which will still be at least one or two years newer than the PS4 spec. You really can't screw this up unless you choose to buy a laptop or ignore ESD common sense when installing the video card... Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you. BitterVet the turkey says GOML GOML GOML
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1575	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:14:00 - [60] - Quote Ender Storm wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 is underperforming? O rly? 1080p at 60fps is more than I need. Not on all tittles, also the PS4 graphics card has some things disabled as to conform with the power requirements. For sure it wont have all the whistles and lights turned on as it would be possible with a PC. Does it mean it will suck? Hell no, but in terms of quality its like a mid-PC performance nowadays. Also, please dont spin around the "8 gb ddr5" card around, thats just hype mostly. The cpu dont need all that bus nor DDR5 memory. The gains of faster Ram for the CPU will be mostly marginal, if any at all. So really only the GPU will be be taking advantage of it. On PC the memory is also DDR5 on GPU's, and DDR3 is more than enough for CPU usage. Also, considering the PC's being build nowadays moslty carry 8+ GB of memory, thats a lot better as more ram can indeed benefit performance more than faster ram for gaming. So we have 8gb shared memory on the PS4 (with 1/3 is reserved for the OS, the rest have to be split between the game and the video card) versus 2+ GB dedicated video memory plus 8+GB dedicated system memory. I really dont think the PS4 way of doing things this generation is of any real practical advantage, srly. TBH I don't care about specs. Whatever runs well, is easy to use, and not overly expensive is what I want.

Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 158	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:22:00 - [61] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. The best gaming laptop/desktop on the market and should not be taken seriously? Thats a new one.. If you think that's the best gaming PC on the market, you've been misled. Yeah really. Lol, at just standard parts you can put on any PC with Windows. Alienware is just the pretty case. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 129	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:28:00 - [62] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Console exclusives >>> PC exclusives Only good games count toward library size. I have yet to see a single console exclusive that is objectively mindbogglingly good. I've seen MANY can't say the same about PC Theres many PC exclusives as well, past, present and future. Like Total War series. EVE. Star Cintzen. Elite Dangerous. DAYZ. MMO's (LOTRO, WOW, SWTOR, etc) Portal 1-2 Company of Heroes Man of War Crusader Kings 2 Europa Universalis IV Warhammer 40k Arma 2-3 Civilization series. Red Orchestra 2 Team Fortress Planetary Anihilation series Cyberpunk 2077 Starcraft 2 Mount and Blade 2 Nether Heroes of the Storm Plus a fuckton of strategy, RPG's, mmo's, moba's and Indie scene games that I dont care to list. If the games are to your liking or not IDK, but I also dont like GTA V, so theres that. The fact is all platforms have exclusives. The reall question is where are the ones you care about.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1576	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:30:00 - [63] - Quote Ender Storm wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Console exclusives >>> PC exclusives Only good games count toward library size. I have yet to see a single console exclusive that is objectively mindbogglingly good. I've seen MANY can't say the same about PC Theres many PC exclusives as well, past, present and future. Like Total War series. EVE. Star Cintzen. Elite Dangerous. DAYZ. MMO's (LOTRO, WOW, SWTOR, etc) Portal 1-2 Company of Heroes Man of War Crusader Kings 2 Europa Universalis IV Warhammer 40k Arma 2-3 Civilization series. Red Orchestra 2 Team Fortress Planetary Anihilation series Cyberpunk 2077 Starcraft 2 Mount and Blade 2 Nether Heroes of the Storm Plus a fuckton of strategy, RPG's, mmo's, moba's and Indie scene games that I dont care to list. If the games are to your liking or not IDK, but I also dont like GTA V, so theres that. The fact is all platforms have exclusives. The reall question is where are the ones you care about. A lot of those are on consoles Of the games I've played, console exclusive are of a higher quality.
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 129	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:32:00 - [64] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Ender Storm wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 is underperforming? O rly? 1080p at 60fps is more than I need. Not on all tittles, also the PS4 graphics card has some things disabled as to conform with the power requirements. For sure it wont have all the whistles and lights turned on as it would be possible with a PC. Does it mean it will suck? Hell no, but in terms of quality its like a mid-PC performance nowadays. Also, please dont spin around the "8 gb ddr5" card around, thats just hype mostly. The cpu dont need all that bus nor DDR5 memory. The gains of faster Ram for the CPU will be mostly marginal, if any at all. So really only the GPU will be be taking advantage of it. On PC the memory is also DDR5 on GPU's, and DDR3 is more than enough for CPU usage. Also, considering the PC's being build nowadays moslty carry 8+ GB of memory, thats a lot better as more ram can indeed benefit performance more than faster ram for gaming. So we have 8gb shared memory on the PS4 (with 1/3 is reserved for the OS, the rest have to be split between the game and the video card) versus 2+ GB dedicated video memory plus 8+GB dedicated system memory. I really dont think the PS4 way of doing things this generation is of any real practical advantage, srly. TBH I don't care about specs. Whatever runs well, is easy to use, and not overly expensive is what I want. Thats totally cool. I like PC, but most certainly will get also a PS4 in a year or 2, when it has more games, is cheaper and maybe has a second iteration of it around.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1149	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:42:00 - [65] - Quote Ender Storm wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Console exclusives >>> PC exclusives Only good games count toward library size. I have yet to see a single console exclusive that is objectively mindbogglingly good. I've seen MANY can't say the same about PC Theres many PC exclusives as well, past, present and future. Like Total War series. EVE. Star Cintzen. Elite Dangerous. DAYZ. Once the game is gone through on PCs and in a good state, it will be making the jump to consoles MMO's (LOTRO, WOW, SWTOR, etc) Portal 1-2 Both of these are on consoles Company of Heroes Man of War Crusader Kings 2 Europa Universalis IV Warhammer 40k Arma 2-3 Civilization series. Red Orchestra 2 Team Fortress Planetary Anihilation series Cyberpunk 2077 Starcraft 2 Mount and Blade 2 Nether Heroes of the Storm Plus a fuckton of strategy, RPG's, mmo's, moba's and Indie scene games that I dont care to list. If the games are to your liking or not IDK, but I also dont like GTA V, so theres that. The fact is all platforms have exclusives. The reall question is where are the ones you care about. Besides the errors you made in "exclusives", that's a good list. If only any of those interested me... You don't like GTA V. I don't like RPG's for the most part. The indie studios are nice, but, Sony is winning many of them over so Playstation is getting many polished versions of the indies people love to brag about having. I 'support' EVE:Legion. Since the PS4 is just a dream, make it easy to sell our characters and our Beta access...
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 43	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:51:00 - [66] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Of the games I've played, console exclusive are of a higher quality. Because you have nothing to compare with on PC.
Thumb Green The Valyrian Guard 1080	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:54:00 - [67] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. The best gaming laptop/desktop on the market and should not be taken seriously? Thats a new one.. You see that, that's your credibility... wait, where did it go? Can't say I'm all that surprised.
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 129	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:04:00 - [68] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Ender Storm wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Console exclusives >>> PC exclusives Only good games count toward library size. I have yet to see a single console exclusive that is objectively mindbogglingly good. I've seen MANY can't say the same about PC Theres many PC exclusives as well, past, present and future. Like Total War series. EVE. Star Cintzen. Elite Dangerous. DAYZ. Once the game is gone through on PCs and in a good state, it will be making the jump to consoles MMO's (LOTRO, WOW, SWTOR, etc) Portal 1-2 Both of these are on consoles Company of Heroes Man of War Crusader Kings 2 Europa Universalis IV Warhammer 40k Arma 2-3 Civilization series. Red Orchestra 2 Team Fortress Planetary Anihilation series Cyberpunk 2077 Starcraft 2 Mount and Blade 2 Nether Heroes of the Storm Plus a fuckton of strategy, RPG's, mmo's, moba's and Indie scene games that I dont care to list. If the games are to your liking or not IDK, but I also dont like GTA V, so theres that. The fact is all platforms have exclusives. The reall question is where are the ones you care about. Besides the errors you made in "exclusives", that's a good list. If only any of those interested me... You don't like GTA V. I don't like RPG's for the most part. The indie studios are nice, but, Sony is winning many of them over so Playstation is getting many polished versions of the indies people love to brag about having. Which is ok, the more platforms a game is on, the better. Theres a lot of games present in various platforms. And its good that the PC offers such liberty to its developers. Contrary to the big guys that try to force their hand artifially using exclusives as a bargain weight (because theres nothing technically limiting a console exclusive to port into another platform). I hope in the future we see less exclusives, they reek of corporate greed and manipulation.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1669	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:48:00 - [69] - Quote The platform that is best is which ever one you as a gamer prefer. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
lampwizard returntrip 26	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:17:00 - [70] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I've never encountered any cheating problems in an online PC game. Play more hold that wrote: Lazor focus these nuts.

Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 44	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:55:00 - [71] - Quote lampwizard wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I've never encountered any cheating problems in an online PC game. Play more Care to point me in a direction where cheating is rampant? I know Rust and DayZ is "full of cheaters" but we are talking about two games in alpha stage.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1578	Posted - 2014.05.14 21:38:00 - [72] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Of the games I've played, console exclusive are of a higher quality. Because you have nothing to compare with on PC. Ive played PC games Not that big of a fan personally.
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 47	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:49:00 - [73] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Of the games I've played, console exclusive are of a higher quality. Because you have nothing to compare with on PC. Ive played PC games Not that big of a fan personally. Guess this is a good bye of sorts then as Legion is coming to PC and not potato station 4.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4416	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:57:00 - [74] - Quote lol @ potato station 4 Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:00:00 - [75] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1536	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:04:00 - [76] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on. Maybe, but chances are that it won't. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:17:00 - [77] - Quote Ender Storm wrote: Also, please dont spin around the "8 gb ddr5" card around, thats just hype mostly. The GDDR5 graphic card has 73.6 GB/s bandwidth while the GDDR3 has only 25.6 GB/s. The Radeon 7750 is a perfect example of this. This desktop card comes in two flavors: DDR3 and GDDR5. Speed and bandwidth make a big difference, it can be overcome and in some cases GDDR5 latency makes it perform worse but for the most part 5 is better than 3. Directionally, Microsoft says each operation (read, write) is capped at 109 GB/s but by mixing reads and writes, real world performance of 130-140 GB/s can be achieved. This isn't signficantly worse than the 176 GB/s theoretical performance of the PS4 over its 256-bit bus. - See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Claims+Xbox+One+Can+Make+Due+With+Faster+GPU+Less+Compute+Units/article33506.htm "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1537	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:24:00 - [78] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Ender Storm wrote: Also, please dont spin around the "8 gb ddr5" card around, thats just hype mostly. The GDDR5 graphic card has 73.6 GB/s bandwidth while the GDDR3 has only 25.6 GB/s. The Radeon 7750 is a perfect example of this. This desktop card comes in two flavors: DDR3 and GDDR5. Speed and bandwidth make a big difference, it can be overcome and in some cases GDDR5 latency makes it perform worse but for the most part 5 is better than 3. Directionally, Microsoft says each operation (read, write) is capped at 109 GB/s but by mixing reads and writes, real world performance of 130-140 GB/s can be achieved. This isn't signficantly worse than the 176 GB/s theoretical performance of the PS4 over its 256-bit bus. - See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Claims+Xbox+One+Can+Make+Due+With+Faster+GPU+Less+Compute+Units/article33506.htm I would like to note that there's no real reason to have RAM that goes 176GB/s. Also, something that will be exclusive to PCs for a while: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR4 I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:25:00 - [79] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on. Maybe, but chances are that it won't. The PS4GÇ¦s GPU also has a technology known as volatile bit. This technology allows a piece of code to be tagged with a bit of data, and then deleted or changed on the fly. This is a vast area of improvement from the traditional workings of GPUGÇÖs. ItGÇÖs also worthy to note that AMD took many of the ideas of the PS4 GÇô such as the beefed up compute structure and implemented it into their next gen video cards http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-4-gpu-next-gen-amd-radeon-volcanic-island-gpu-compute-similarities/ "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 277	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:53:00 - [80] - Quote Well in the Console department PS4 wins in my opinion. The few exclusives I've played on an Xbone have been genreally second rate. For instance Ryse: Son of Rome looked like an awesome game... It's just another button mashing game going for big combos. PS4 comes with a lot more for your money with the free playstation plus games. I really don't need to go on. PC is the "Master race" as some people like to call it. It's for the people who have the extra money saved up that can afford, and want to spend the "big bucks". Why have I have chosen PC over a PS4? Because I want to play a ton of PC games that my current laptop (Cheap PoS) can't. I also want to be able to use good video making software, photoshop(Other like products), and being able to mod the games I play for a more satisfying experience. (Have you ever seen Skyrim Modded out on a good PC? It's amazing) All that said I'll most likely get a PS4 at some point, but probably not until it get's the next model that has twice the memory like comparing a "fat" ps3 vs the new ones.

The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 03:56:00 - [81] - Quote As far as the VS topic. The XBox One is the loser in almost every case. Fewer titles, costs more and isn't as powerful. The PS4 is the best value and is easier than a PC. With a PS the overall cost is lower in almost every situation and is aesthetically more pleasing than a PC and, to me, an XBone. The PS is more portable, more energy efficient, and comes with all the things needed to play almost all the games on the PS. It includes controller, headset for voice chat and all the wires needed to plug it in. With PS plus you get monthly games and the use of online backups. Old PS games are being emulated on the 4 so the library is very large and full of well know games. The VITA and EYE also add to the console. The VITA is a $300 peripheral that can be used as a second screen or as a main screen if you don't use of the TV. The EYE adds motion controlling and adds to the function of the PS4 controller. Some PS4 and VITA games can be played on both platforms and their saves moves with the game allowing you to continue playing while traveling. The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs. The PS4 is the best value for what you get and if you travel or live somewhere small the PS4 is the winner by far but if you are looking for straight power or money is not object then the PC will always win. I own a VITA, 2 PS3 and a higher end PC. I have a watercooled overclocked i7, 6 GB of ram and a very nice motherboard. My card is GTX 660 and I perfer a PS3 every time. I like PC gaming but I don't enjoy it as much as console gaming. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 48	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:03:00 - [82] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on. There is no "PS4 architecture" as it is still AMDs 'Jaguar' which is still a x86 architecture. Furthermore, PC stands for Personal Computer and is a open and hardware agnostic platform whereas AMD produces several things but no PCs and there only one that will be building graphics cards designed with Mantle in mind is AMD, not Nvidia.
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 48	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:09:00 - [83] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs. Do you want me to pick your argument apart piece for piece? And where the actual **** did you learn English? I mean, I am not natively English speaking but holy jumping shitballs!
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 672	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:16:00 - [84] - Quote A fair assumption from the op. Its quite simple... If you just want to play a few games here and there, when you get back from work, play with the lads and ladies round the house having some beers... a console is probably a smarter choice. If you dont mind spending a little bit more money (not nearly as much more as some would make you believe) and you have more than a keen interest in gaming / want the top specs or want to do MORE THAN JUST GAMING - a PC is the better option. There is no better or worse, they are wha tthey are. Get the system that suits your needs. For me its the PC hands down as I love games but I love to record and compose music as well as dabble in a little creativity on my PC. - OH if I had to pick a console at this point, it would be the PS4 hands down. Why anyone would want a new Xbox at this point is beyond me. I guess exclusive games or something? I dont know.
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:24:00 - [85] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind. Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on. There is no "PS4 architecture" as it is still AMDs 'Jaguar' which is still a x86 architecture. Furthermore, PC stands for Personal Computer and is a open and hardware agnostic platform whereas AMD produces several things but no PCs and there only one that will be building graphics cards designed with Mantle in mind is AMD, not Nvidia. You are correct but it is still Sony and AMD, not just AMD. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:27:00 - [86] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs. Do you want me to pick your argument apart piece for piece? And where the actual **** did you learn English? I mean, I am not natively English speaking but holy jumping shitballs! Sorry my English doesn't hold up to yours. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9676	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:41:00 - [87] - Quote Just so you guys know, the PC vs PS3 situation was totally different than the PC vs PS4 situation. The PS3 WAS stronger than any gaming PC of the time hands down, you literally COULD NOT build a gaming PC stronger than a PS3. The reason for that is that the super components that only the rich people could buy did not exist. There was no GTX Titan, R9 295x, etc'. Hardware was made to be somewhat affordable, you wouldn't see a graphics card for 1000$. (Consumer graphics cards that is) In the current market, the consoles simply cannot compete unless they bring on ridiculous price tags, bordering on 800$ - 1000$. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
The Jungian Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 122	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:45:00 - [88] - Quote The ignorance in this thread is real entertaining but also hurts like hell. I'll just grab more popcorn. CCP COMMUNITY SPOTLIGHT: RND_Jungian
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:47:00 - [89] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Just so you guys know, the PC vs PS3 situation was totally different than the PC vs PS4 situation. The PS3 WAS stronger than any gaming PC of the time hands down, you literally COULD NOT build a gaming PC stronger than a PS3. The reason for that is that the super components that only the rich people could buy did not exist. There was no GTX Titan, R9 295x, etc'. Hardware was made to be somewhat affordable, you wouldn't see a graphics card for 1000$. (Consumer graphics cards that is) In the current market, the consoles simply cannot compete unless they bring on ridiculous price tags, bordering on 800$ - 1000$. If Sony had followed through with their vision of a cell in all their electronics then then in the PS4 then it would be unstoppable now but they gave up on the cell. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9676	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:50:00 - [90] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Just so you guys know, the PC vs PS3 situation was totally different than the PC vs PS4 situation. The PS3 WAS stronger than any gaming PC of the time hands down, you literally COULD NOT build a gaming PC stronger than a PS3. The reason for that is that the super components that only the rich people could buy did not exist. There was no GTX Titan, R9 295x, etc'. Hardware was made to be somewhat affordable, you wouldn't see a graphics card for 1000$. (Consumer graphics cards that is) In the current market, the consoles simply cannot compete unless they bring on ridiculous price tags, bordering on 800$ - 1000$. If Sony had followed through with their vision of a cell in all their electronics then then in the PS4 then it would be unstoppable now but they gave up on the cell. The CELL is incredibly hard to code for, and would not magically make the console stronger. It's an architecture from 10 years ago. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 04:56:00 - [91] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Just so you guys know, the PC vs PS3 situation was totally different than the PC vs PS4 situation. The PS3 WAS stronger than any gaming PC of the time hands down, you literally COULD NOT build a gaming PC stronger than a PS3. The reason for that is that the super components that only the rich people could buy did not exist. There was no GTX Titan, R9 295x, etc'. Hardware was made to be somewhat affordable, you wouldn't see a graphics card for 1000$. (Consumer graphics cards that is) In the current market, the consoles simply cannot compete unless they bring on ridiculous price tags, bordering on 800$ - 1000$. If Sony had followed through with their vision of a cell in all their electronics then then in the PS4 then it would be unstoppable now but they gave up on the cell. The CELL is incredibly hard to code for, and would not magically make the console stronger. It's an architecture from 10 years ago. I understand that it is hard to code for. They wanted to put cells in all their electronics and have distributed computing power. A cell in your blueray, PS, PC, TV, stereo, and what ever else all working together as one big supercomputer. It would have turned every home with some Sony products into a big computer. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
The Jungian Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 123	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:10:00 - [92] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: It would have turned every home with some Sony products into a big computer. Absolutely a grand idea. http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/09/military-purchases-2200-ps3s/ Hence why buying a bunch of them does a lot of good in some cases. Too much value for money. CCP COMMUNITY SPOTLIGHT: RND_Jungian
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2546	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:18:00 - [93] - Quote The Jungian wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: It would have turned every home with some Sony products into a big computer. Absolutely a grand idea. http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/09/military-purchases-2200-ps3s/ Hence why buying a bunch of them does a lot of good in some cases. Too much value for money. Nice article. I can't find where I read what SONY wanted to do but I remember reading it or hearing it in a speech they gave about the cell. I know how to program a mirco processor in machine language and I can tell you that the cell is a supercomputer on a chip just from looking at the architecture on paper. There were a lot of colledges that bought PS3s to use as supercomputers becasue they were cheap when compare to paying for supercomputers by the hour. http://phys.org/news148749271.html http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-11168150 http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnfarrell/2014/05/12/modeling-black-holes-with-sony-playstations-the-next-challenge/ Computing has changed but the cell is still a powerhouse when properly coded for. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
The Jungian Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 125	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:22:00 - [94] - Quote Yes, the Cell is indeed powerful but coders struggled with it which is a damn shame. Naughty Dog managed to squeeze out directx 11 like effects by using the Cell outside the gpu. I would say The Last of Us is a testament to this as well. For a game on a 7 year old console it truly looked like it was on a todays PC. Cell is clearly underrated, but just not favorred. CCP COMMUNITY SPOTLIGHT: RND_Jungian
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 33	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:42:00 - [95] - Quote What a lot of you people trying to convince console gamers to become PC gamers don't understand, is that a LOT of us will be buying a PS4 or X1 just for Kingdom Hearts 3 alone, as well as the other console-exclusive games. Also the whole "graphics are better, more games to play, etc." argument for the PC just doesn't really knock a gamer like me off his feet. You've got to understand there's a lot of people like me who are just as happy playing classic Game Boy games as they are new, fancy ones. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2547	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:59:00 - [96] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: What a lot of you people trying to convince console gamers to become PC gamers don't understand, is that a LOT of us will be buying a PS4 or X1 just for Kingdom Hearts 3 alone, as well as the other console-exclusive games. Also the whole "graphics are better, more games to play, etc." argument for the PC just doesn't really knock a gamer like me off his feet. You've got to understand there's a lot of people like me who are just as happy playing classic Game Boy games as they are new, fancy ones. KH is a great game. I have played all of them and they never disappoint. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 48	Posted - 2014.05.15 06:21:00 - [97] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs. Do you want me to pick your argument apart piece for piece? And where the actual **** did you learn English? I mean, I am not natively English speaking but holy jumping shitballs! Sorry my English doesn't hold up to yours. Please feel free to pick my argument apart, it will be fun for both of us. A PC doesn't need to come in a big tower, you can get a lot of performance into a case like the Fractal Design Node 304 using the mITX form factor and while it is not as compact as as a console, it is not cumbersome either. The Node 304's minimalistic design makes it blend in next to my reciever sitting in my TV bench under the 50" Panasonic and serves as my Steambox, HTPC and emulatorbox. As for cables, I use a HDMI cable to the TV and a optical to my reciever. Aside from a cheap, spill proof keyboard and a really old Logitech MX518, I use two wired Xbox 360 controllers. Media gets streamed from FreeNAS box that sits in a closet in the basement over a wired gigabit network and I download games from Steam at 10mbit\s. Want specs on my Node 304?
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2547	Posted - 2014.05.15 06:53:00 - [98] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs. Do you want me to pick your argument apart piece for piece? And where the actual **** did you learn English? I mean, I am not natively English speaking but holy jumping shitballs! Sorry my English doesn't hold up to yours. Please feel free to pick my argument apart, it will be fun for both of us. A PC doesn't need to come in a big tower, you can get a lot of performance into a case like the Fractal Design Node 304 using the mITX form factor and while it is not as compact as as a console, it is not cumbersome either. The Node 304's minimalistic design makes it blend in next to my reciever sitting in my TV bench under the 50" Panasonic and serves as my Steambox, HTPC and emulatorbox. As for cables, I use a HDMI cable to the TV and a optical to my reciever. Aside from a cheap, spill proof keyboard and a really old Logitech MX518, I use two wired Xbox 360 controllers. Media gets streamed from FreeNAS box that sits in a closet in the basement over a wired gigabit network and I download games from Steam at 10mbit\s. Want specs on my Node 304? Fractal is a cool name and yes you can get a compact case but they are more costly than a traditional case and they are still 2 - 4 times larger than a console. I am not trying to be a douche but $100 just for the case is 25% of the price of a console that is all the things I listed earlier. Consoles are made to be small and to be put in entertainment centers and have a small footprint. I use my laptop all the time on my TV and it isn't as big as my PS3 and it does all the same things as my PS3 except play PS games but it was expensive when it was released four or five years ago. My only point is that consoles are more bang for your buck when talking about gaming and are easier on the eyes as part of an entertainment system. I stream from my PC to my PS3; any audio, video or picture on my desktop is easily streamed to my PS3 or my VITA. I don't know how the PS4 is with streaming and connectivity to a PC but for the most part my PS3 can do whatever I want when it comes to entertainment with the exception of PC games. I am not trying to take away from a PC because I do think they are vastly superior in almost every way if you have the cash to spend but generally you will get more out of a console for the price. PSs are designed to do what they do and they do it well and yes a PC out performs them but at a cost. In my eyes a console is more affordable and more user friendly for younger people, people who don't have the cash for a mid to upper range PC or are lacking in space in the living room or travel often. Their are always exceptions but generally speaking consoles are most power for the price you pay. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 55	Posted - 2014.05.15 07:46:00 - [99] - Quote Frankly the posts and arguments have been a bit over the top. My PC would still be about $1k+ to build right now so I won't go into it. I did recently build a small gaming rig for my nephew for about $400 so I know its feasible. However PC gaming is NOT ALWAYS THE BEST and I think it really takes someone who has experience with all platforms to get that type of outlook. The PC gives me performance, power and really the reliability to buy any game for years to come but it's also currently the highest costing platform to game on overall if I simply tried to do the "best cost of having title X on the PC". I'll get more into this later but overall my desktop is my mmo, graphics design and work-at-home device. My Playstation is my main console unit more so than my brothers PS4; the PS Plus is the SOLE reason for this; in the half year I've had my membership have gotten Batman Arkham Asylum, Borderlands 2, Tomb Raider, Remember Me, Dragon's Dogma (to name a few titles) as part of my below $35 year sub fee. Whether I use Steam, aftermarket or gamefly I still paid far less. Having to pay $35 a year to do this is a good deal and the ability to demo some games for longer periods than what is available is great plus. It's also why I game mostly on the PS3, price wise its cheaper. If you think about gaming like a printer, the printer itself is the platform you're using (ie. PC, PS or Xbox) and the ink the games. In my case, the ink is cheapest for Playstation basically. On the Xbox it's the gold subscription that irks me the most and only now having availability to Netflix and Hulu was a huge pain before. Also, even if cross platform titles were better looking on the Xbox, paying for it and the xbox gold was less than worth it. I ended up giving it away to my nephew. That's really why I never looked at the whole Legion topic as PC versus Playstaiton; it's really has been a case for me of how Legion is going to be made and how it's hard to even trust as a game. It's built on ideas for Dust that haven't even proven effective and viable for Dust but we're still going to incorporate it into Legion? Add to the fact that it's going to initially decrease the playerbase with the number of ppl who will abandon it and then, if it's still like Dust's current model for new player growth, still no find a way to add more players it's even more mind boggling. And if you stick to the concept that with the PC they can update things faster then it'd make more sense to have waited and created a planning phase first then move onto the coding phase and start with UE4 because it allows for faster updates and easier coding. All of these points are beyond the "PC versus PS" argument; these are realistic problems that CCP hasn't shown at some level to be able to evolve from; we might still have proto stomping in more significant fashion in legion and that won't help the game grow overall and lobotomizing the PS3 gamers who only game on the PS3 and/or will not support Legion because of the recent events can't help CCP either.
meri jin Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1007	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:35:00 - [100] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: There's been a lot of debate over which is the superior platform, so I'm here to give you an unbiased look at the differences between the PC and the two major next-gen consoles. Graphics First off, let's compare the graphics between the three consoles. The PlayStation 4 consistently provides higher resolution for the same framerate over the Xbox One, and the numbers show why: the GPU of the PlayStation 4 has a theoretical peak performance of 1.84 teraflops, compared to the theoretical peak performance of 1.31 teraflops of the Xbox One. The PC is undoubtedly the strongest of the three, however, with many graphics cards easily exceeding those numbers. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the PS4 in 2nd place and the XB1 in 3rd place. *Cost of Platform* Perhaps more important to some than graphics is cost. The PlayStation 4 provides decent performance for the relatively small sum of $400, making it the cheapest option for those who still want good graphics. The Xbox One costs 25% more than the PlayStation 4 at $500, while providing slightly weaker graphics. A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it. While a hand-built $500 gaming PC might not be top-of-the-line, it should provide adequate power to readily play most games released on next-gen consoles. In this category, the PS4 takes 1st place, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PC in 3rd place. Peripherals Another important factor would be peripherals. Surprisingly, the PlayStation 4 seems to have a wider range of peripherals than the Xbox One; whereas the Xbox One only has Kinect in addition to its standard controller, the PlayStation 4 has the PlayStation Move, supports using the PlayStation Vita to play PlayStation 4 games, and soon will have "Project Morpheus" which will allow it to support virtual reality gaming. The PC, of course, blows the other two out of the water with the widest range of available peripherals ever. Too many to list, too many to count. PC takes 1st place, followed by the PS4 in 2nd and XB1 in 3rd. Library PC wins, hands down. Neither console comes close. Secondary Uses And by "secondary uses", I am referring to doing things other than gaming. The Xbox One, proclaimed by Microsoft to be an "all-in-one entertainment system", allows for the watching of TV, using Skype, browsing the web, watching video and listening to music, also coming with a built-in Blu-ray player. The PlayStation 4 is also capable of many of these things, though to a more limited extent. The PC, being a PC, is far superior to both consoles when it comes to non-gaming uses. Very few other devices are needed if you have a good PC. The PC takes 1st place in this category, followed by the XB1 in 2nd place and the PS4 in 3rd place. Ease of Use Consoles, by their nature, are usually easier to use than PCs. I can't actually say for certain whether the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One are easier to use than the PC, and I can't compare the two consoles as that would require owning both of them, but I'm going to go off on a limb and guess that the PC takes 3rd place, or 2nd place if the two consoles are tied, based on past experience with other consoles. None of them are particularly difficult to use, though. I would continue, but that would require me owning both next-gen consoles. Also, I'm close to the character limit. And I am being totally unbiased. Totally. Unbiased. A PC have running costs and maintenance, don't forget to keep your drivers up to date, as well as anti vir systems (running costs), firewall, and patches. And don't forget the comfort, a lot of people are working on PCs, coming home just to sit again in front of a PC? Playing on a big TV on a couch is not always easy using a PC as well. R.I.P. Dust514 02 May 2014 EVE United

Roran Theron Bragian Order Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:49:00 - [101] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx Didn't even need to click on the link to tell you that you need to learn more about computers. If you know anything about quality/pricing, you would laugh every time you saw an Alienware.
Roran Theron Bragian Order Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.05.15 08:51:00 - [102] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: A decent gaming PC can cost anywhere from $400 to $1,200 dollars depending on the kind of performance you want out of it] Is that so? http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-18/pd.aspx All Alienware products are overpriced. They shouldn't even be taken seriously. To put it in perspective, a hand-built desktop PC with similar performance would be closer to $600. Maybe less. The best gaming laptop/desktop on the market and should not be taken seriously? Thats a new one.. Because those are made by manufacturers, they are overpriced and shouldn't be taken seriously. Anything you find on the market you can build yourself for cheaper and even build a better one at that.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1578	Posted - 2014.05.15 16:37:00 - [103] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Of the games I've played, console exclusive are of a higher quality. Because you have nothing to compare with on PC. Ive played PC games Not that big of a fan personally. Guess this is a good bye of sorts then as Legion is coming to PC and not potato station 4. Yep Destiny FTW

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7583	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:30:00 - [104] - Quote Moved to The Locker Room. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Mary Lilac Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 446	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:37:00 - [105] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Just so you guys know, the PC vs PS3 situation was totally different than the PC vs PS4 situation. The PS3 WAS stronger than any gaming PC of the time hands down, you literally COULD NOT build a gaming PC stronger than a PS3. The reason for that is that the super components that only the rich people could buy did not exist. There was no GTX Titan, R9 295x, etc'. Hardware was made to be somewhat affordable, you wouldn't see a graphics card for 1000$. (Consumer graphics cards that is) In the current market, the consoles simply cannot compete unless they bring on ridiculous price tags, bordering on 800$ - 1000$. Yes you could. The PS3 had a 7900GS in it, when it released you could just go out and buy a GeForce 8800 GTX for ~$600 that is handily faster. OF course raw power doesn't mean much when the platform will never be optimized to use that power. You could pair it with a Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 that would also handily crush the PS3. Ram would be no big issue as would HDD. You could absolutely make a computer that was way faster than a PS3 when it came out, Of course that PC would have been $2,000, and in the end the PS3 remained more relevant, and plays games in 2013 better than that setup does. IT cost about 1/3rd the price and you probably could have afforded another PS# just from electricity savings over then following 7 years. 1-800-345-SONY. PRESS 2 THEN 2. GET YOUR REFUND. RE-POST THIS IN YOUR SIG. Be polite, they want to refund you!


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