|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
   |
Posted - 2014.05.15 03:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nyctohylophobia wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind.
Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! 
PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 03:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ender Storm wrote:
Also, please dont spin around the "8 gb ddr5" card around, thats just hype mostly.
The GDDR5 graphic card has 73.6 GB/s bandwidth while the GDDR3 has only 25.6 GB/s.
The Radeon 7750 is a perfect example of this. This desktop card comes in two flavors: DDR3 and GDDR5.
Speed and bandwidth make a big difference, it can be overcome and in some cases GDDR5 latency makes it perform worse but for the most part 5 is better than 3.
Directionally, Microsoft says each operation (read, write) is capped at 109 GB/s but by mixing reads and writes, real world performance of 130-140 GB/s can be achieved. This isn't signficantly worse than the 176 GB/s theoretical performance of the PS4 over its 256-bit bus. - See more at: http://www.dailytech.com/Microsoft+Claims+Xbox+One+Can+Make+Due+With+Faster+GPU+Less+Compute+Units/article33506.htm
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 03:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Nyctohylophobia wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind.
Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on. Maybe, but chances are that it won't.
The PS4GǦs GPU also has a technology known as volatile bit. This technology allows a piece of code to be tagged with a bit of data, and then deleted or changed on the fly. This is a vast area of improvement from the traditional workings of GPUGÇÖs. ItGÇÖs also worthy to note that AMD took many of the ideas of the PS4 GÇô such as the beefed up compute structure and implemented it into their next gen video cards
http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-4-gpu-next-gen-amd-radeon-volcanic-island-gpu-compute-similarities/
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 03:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
As far as the VS topic.
The XBox One is the loser in almost every case. Fewer titles, costs more and isn't as powerful.
The PS4 is the best value and is easier than a PC. With a PS the overall cost is lower in almost every situation and is aesthetically more pleasing than a PC and, to me, an XBone. The PS is more portable, more energy efficient, and comes with all the things needed to play almost all the games on the PS. It includes controller, headset for voice chat and all the wires needed to plug it in. With PS plus you get monthly games and the use of online backups. Old PS games are being emulated on the 4 so the library is very large and full of well know games.
The VITA and EYE also add to the console. The VITA is a $300 peripheral that can be used as a second screen or as a main screen if you don't use of the TV. The EYE adds motion controlling and adds to the function of the PS4 controller. Some PS4 and VITA games can be played on both platforms and their saves moves with the game allowing you to continue playing while traveling.
The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs.
The PS4 is the best value for what you get and if you travel or live somewhere small the PS4 is the winner by far but if you are looking for straight power or money is not object then the PC will always win. I own a VITA, 2 PS3 and a higher end PC. I have a watercooled overclocked i7, 6 GB of ram and a very nice motherboard. My card is GTX 660 and I perfer a PS3 every time. I like PC gaming but I don't enjoy it as much as console gaming.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nyctohylophobia wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Nyctohylophobia wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
Additionally, there are hardware advantages to PS4 that you've ignored - for instance, 8GB of shared GDDR5 and an extremely fast pipeline throughout the system. You can easily get higher teraflop counts on PC GPUs but you can not access all of that advantage as there are typically bottlenecks elsewhere in the system. Right now this is not such an issue, but most AAA games coming out in two years time will have been designed from the ground up with PS4-like architecture in mind.
Yes, the PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but still uses a APU that delivers about 1.84 TFLOPS performance (or roughly the equalivant of a 7870) and would have been the pinnicle of console gaming had the PS4 launched four years ago instead of November last year. Now, fast forward to May 2014 and we have two "next-gen" consoles from M$ and Sony that despite the hardware advantages that you mention continue to underperform, underdeliver and ultimately disappoint. Lastly, PS4-like architecture? LOL! PS4 architecture is being used in next gen cards and the unified memory is ahead of its time, games aren't using unified memory in PC. The PS4 architecture changed how graphics cards will be built from now on. There is no "PS4 architecture" as it is still AMDs 'Jaguar' which is still a x86 architecture. Furthermore, PC stands for Personal Computer and is a open and hardware agnostic platform whereas AMD produces several things but no PCs and there only one that will be building graphics cards designed with Mantle in mind is AMD, not Nvidia.
You are correct but it is still Sony and AMD, not just AMD.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nyctohylophobia wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs.
Do you want me to pick your argument apart piece for piece? And where the actual **** did you learn English? I mean, I am not natively English speaking but holy jumping shitballs!
Sorry my English doesn't hold up to yours.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Just so you guys know, the PC vs PS3 situation was totally different than the PC vs PS4 situation.
The PS3 WAS stronger than any gaming PC of the time hands down, you literally COULD NOT build a gaming PC stronger than a PS3.
The reason for that is that the super components that only the rich people could buy did not exist.
There was no GTX Titan, R9 295x, etc'.
Hardware was made to be somewhat affordable, you wouldn't see a graphics card for 1000$. (Consumer graphics cards that is)
In the current market, the consoles simply cannot compete unless they bring on ridiculous price tags, bordering on 800$ - 1000$.
If Sony had followed through with their vision of a cell in all their electronics then then in the PS4 then it would be unstoppable now but they gave up on the cell.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 04:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Just so you guys know, the PC vs PS3 situation was totally different than the PC vs PS4 situation.
The PS3 WAS stronger than any gaming PC of the time hands down, you literally COULD NOT build a gaming PC stronger than a PS3.
The reason for that is that the super components that only the rich people could buy did not exist.
There was no GTX Titan, R9 295x, etc'.
Hardware was made to be somewhat affordable, you wouldn't see a graphics card for 1000$. (Consumer graphics cards that is)
In the current market, the consoles simply cannot compete unless they bring on ridiculous price tags, bordering on 800$ - 1000$. If Sony had followed through with their vision of a cell in all their electronics then then in the PS4 then it would be unstoppable now but they gave up on the cell. The CELL is incredibly hard to code for, and would not magically make the console stronger. It's an architecture from 10 years ago.
I understand that it is hard to code for. They wanted to put cells in all their electronics and have distributed computing power. A cell in your blueray, PS, PC, TV, stereo, and what ever else all working together as one big supercomputer. It would have turned every home with some Sony products into a big computer.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2546
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 05:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nice article. I can't find where I read what SONY wanted to do but I remember reading it or hearing it in a speech they gave about the cell. I know how to program a mirco processor in machine language and I can tell you that the cell is a supercomputer on a chip just from looking at the architecture on paper. There were a lot of colledges that bought PS3s to use as supercomputers becasue they were cheap when compare to paying for supercomputers by the hour.
http://phys.org/news148749271.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-11168150
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnfarrell/2014/05/12/modeling-black-holes-with-sony-playstations-the-next-challenge/
Computing has changed but the cell is still a powerhouse when properly coded for.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2547
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 05:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote:What a lot of you people trying to convince console gamers to become PC gamers don't understand, is that a LOT of us will be buying a PS4 or X1 just for Kingdom Hearts 3 alone, as well as the other console-exclusive games.
Also the whole "graphics are better, more games to play, etc." argument for the PC just doesn't really knock a gamer like me off his feet.
You've got to understand there's a lot of people like me who are just as happy playing classic Game Boy games as they are new, fancy ones.
KH is a great game. I have played all of them and they never disappoint.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
|
|
The Robot Devil
Brave Bunnies
Brave Collective
2547
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 06:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nyctohylophobia wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Nyctohylophobia wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
The PC is the wins in power every time if you have the money to spend on high end components. The PC is more versitile and can do more everyday things but is more expensive to use while gaming. Higher end cards pull like 150W while gaming and that doesn't include the rest of the system. PCs are more cumbersome and are not a nice to look at or as compact as consoles so connecting them to the big screen is ugly and usually takes up much more space. With PCs all is not included. Gaming mice and keyboards offer better performance, head sets and speakers are needed and a monitor is expensive if you don't have a nice one or can't connect it to your TV. Even then the extra cord needed to connect to the TV is another price and some TV may not have enough inputs to accommodate the extra cord. The Blueray player is another component that will cost extra if compared to a standard DVD in lots of PCs.
Do you want me to pick your argument apart piece for piece? And where the actual **** did you learn English? I mean, I am not natively English speaking but holy jumping shitballs! Sorry my English doesn't hold up to yours. Please feel free to pick my argument apart, it will be fun for both of us. A PC doesn't need to come in a big tower, you can get a lot of performance into a case like the Fractal Design Node 304 using the mITX form factor and while it is not as compact as as a console, it is not cumbersome either. The Node 304's minimalistic design makes it blend in next to my reciever sitting in my TV bench under the 50" Panasonic and serves as my Steambox, HTPC and emulatorbox. As for cables, I use a HDMI cable to the TV and a optical to my reciever. Aside from a cheap, spill proof keyboard and a really old Logitech MX518, I use two wired Xbox 360 controllers. Media gets streamed from FreeNAS box that sits in a closet in the basement over a wired gigabit network and I download games from Steam at 10mbit\s. Want specs on my Node 304?
Fractal is a cool name and yes you can get a compact case but they are more costly than a traditional case and they are still 2 - 4 times larger than a console. I am not trying to be a douche but $100 just for the case is 25% of the price of a console that is all the things I listed earlier. Consoles are made to be small and to be put in entertainment centers and have a small footprint.
I use my laptop all the time on my TV and it isn't as big as my PS3 and it does all the same things as my PS3 except play PS games but it was expensive when it was released four or five years ago. My only point is that consoles are more bang for your buck when talking about gaming and are easier on the eyes as part of an entertainment system. I stream from my PC to my PS3; any audio, video or picture on my desktop is easily streamed to my PS3 or my VITA. I don't know how the PS4 is with streaming and connectivity to a PC but for the most part my PS3 can do whatever I want when it comes to entertainment with the exception of PC games.
I am not trying to take away from a PC because I do think they are vastly superior in almost every way if you have the cash to spend but generally you will get more out of a console for the price. PSs are designed to do what they do and they do it well and yes a PC out performs them but at a cost. In my eyes a console is more affordable and more user friendly for younger people, people who don't have the cash for a mid to upper range PC or are lacking in space in the living room or travel often. Their are always exceptions but generally speaking consoles are most power for the price you pay.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
|
|
| |
|