I just saw Jacques Clayton II go 32/3 with a cal c1 and basic Hmg.

Tell me again how craps the cal heavy is... or perhaps it is the input to the controller that is the issue.

Also, the Hmg is in a good place right now. I am a heavy, but I am also a medic and a scout so I have experienced the Hmg from both sides.

Given my recent massively inflamed ire against HMG heavy (spam), I have to applaud this post. The author has proposed a very balanced approach for dealing with the current heavy situation.

Personally I fail to understand how anyone right now can claim that heavies are completely fine when 50-80% of the opposing teams are consistently using them even in pubs, not to mention PC.

I just saw Jacques Clayton II go 32/3 with a cal c1 and basic Hmg.

Tell me again how craps the cal heavy is... or perhaps it is the input to the controller that is the issue.

Also, the Hmg is in a good place right now. I am a heavy, but I am also a medic and a scout so I have experienced the Hmg from both sides.

Tell me again how someone who is really good using something and goes positive means its good?
I went 30/1 with an assault, is it fine?

Regardless, Min/Cal heavies don't need a buff, you're just not using them right. They're not in the same niche as the armor heavies, which is good.

I recently discovered the awesomeness of running a minlogilolhealer with a stacked heavy.

Cannot wait to get more points in logi's now. And I'm borderline ok with heavy spam because it get's me DEM WARPOINTZ

Scouts are a complex issue, please nerf recklessly

Please don't.

Take away the ability to fire before fully decloaking, and the only scout that will still seem OP will be the Gallente.

My Minmatar scout has come so far now, I would hate to see it take another step back into oblivion.

Regardless, Min/Cal heavies don't need a buff, you're just not using them right. They're not in the same niche as the armor heavies, which is good.

This certainly is constructive and good feedback, and I assure you we are/were aware of the topics you mention.

I personally like that my heavy is viable again, and I agree that my assault fit has diminished efficiency.

I actually though KAGEHOSHI was on the CPM when I first arrived on the forums.

Not everything was included into the game upon its release. Which lead to nerfs for weapons that should not have happened because they couldn't be compared to nonexistent weapons that were on the pipeline to be released. Now it seems we are in a nerf/buff twilight zone, never finding the right middle ground to agree upon.

I like that heavies are scary again. Heavies were a joke in 1.7. Also, each particular dropsuit has had its shine in the game, I guess it's time again for the heavies.

The LAV and Heavy issue shouldn't even be a issue. We are using the means that were given to us to bring an end to the opposition.

Also its interesting to just blame CCP for some of this that we're in when the community has undoubetedly helped influenced the makings of 1.8. I read countless times about heavies not being lethal. But when they become lethal, now folks are saying CCP can't buy a bucket. Sometimes I do not understand this short term memory the community has.

The system itself is interesting. Cry about issue. Make countless threads. CCP finally responds with a nerf/buff inbound. Community cheers. Community plays. Cries about the issue of the nerf/buff. Community begins blaming CCP, calling them incompetent, asking why they didn't test before releasing. Community obviously forgot that it's what they wanted.

It's like we're in some weird ass twilight zone. 1.8 was of the community's doing mostly.

Does the community know what they want? Will the community run this game into the ground? From the looks of it, its highly possible

HMG is not in a good place right now at all. It was the only major gun that didn't take an overall damage nerf along with rifles, while the role suits it gets used with gained resistance bonuses despite the damage nerf to other guns. Plus that "stunlock" effect is a bunch of crap.

I recently discovered the awesomeness of running a minlogilolhealer with a stacked heavy.

Cannot wait to get more points in logi's now. And I'm borderline ok with heavy spam because it get's me DEM WARPOINTZ

This certainly is constructive and good feedback, and I assure you we are/were aware of the topics you mention.

I personally like that my heavy is viable again, and I agree that my assault fit has diminished efficiency.

There is a perception that heavies are OP, and to me it feels true that they are too strong. Some have called for nerfs against heavy/sentines suits, but I believe the issue is a complex one, and that heavies may quickly end up underpowered if they have their HP nerfed in addition to to fixing the multitude of other balance issues that need to be taken care of. Before any discussion of HP nerfs, several issues have to be handled.

The Issues:

The assaults are underpowered. Right now scouts can tank nearly as much HP as assaults while being faster, having a 2nd equipment, having a bonus to cloaks, being great a detection and scan evasion; assaults pretty much suck by comparison. Medium frame slots are very messed up in my opinion, think this stuff needs to be fixed anyway, so might as well use the slot fixes it as a means to buff assaults and other mediums. Others have suggested things like regeneration to give assaults a niche, and also increasing base HP of mediums. Anyway, one of the reason heavies seem to be so unstoppable is that the main combat forces (assaults) are so bad right now, if assaults were buffed, heavies might seem less OP by comparison; I think assaults will get buffed anyway, so its safer to just wait for the assault buff rather than just nerf heavies now, nerfing heavies followed by an assault buff could leave heavies comparatively underpowered. Too much change at once is dangerous.

The slow-down-when-hit effect on weapons. There is an effect that reduces your speed when you are hit by a weapon. No one wanted it, and no one likes it. It nullifies the mobility advantage of many suits, and it creates balance issues with many weapons; basically each round hitting slows down the target a bit, and high rate-of-fire weapons fire more rounds are fire more rounds at a given time interval, which makes the slow-down effect even higher. This gives the CR, aCR, HMG, and other high ROF weapons an extra (and unnecessary) advantage. This effect is the absolute worst with the HMG because of its extremely high rate of fire, this effect needs to be removed.

Projectile damage profile (-5% to shields/+10% to armor). Every other damage profile has the damage bonus to one kind of HP (shields or armor), and the damage deficit against the other type of HP add up to 0; for example, laser damage profile is +20% to shields, and -20% to armor, adds up to 0. The projectile damage bonus has a net 5% gain, this creates a slight balance issue for the HMG (and combat rifle).The damage profile for projectiles need to be changed to something with a net 0 gain like everything else.

The rifles and other weapons got nerfed in 1.8, but HMG was not nerfed. I think HMG's were at a good place in 1.7, but nerfing so many weapons while leaving the HMG alone gave the HMG an unnecessary comparative buff. The HMG might need a small 5-10% nerf after the removal of the slow-down effect, and the change to the projectile damage profile if heavies still appear to be overpowered after.

Heavies in vehicles. One of the balancing factors that heavies have is their low speed, but getting an LAV or any other vehicle allows a heavy to completely overcome the lack of speed. A popular tactic employed by heavies is the use of LAVs to close the distance between enemies, instantly jumping out and killing enemies, and instantly jumping back in the LAV to escape whenever they start taking significant damage. This wasn't much of an issue for me personally before 1.8 because my packed AV grenades were enough to destroy a militia LAV and its occupants, but now they can't because maximum carried grenades for all grenade types have been reduced. There needs to be enter/exit animations to give those around time to damage or escape the entering/exiting heavy, or at least something like a hack sequence to enter or exit. This 0 risk high reward tactic needs to be handled.

These things need to be out of the way first before nerfing the HP of heavies becomes an option.

they are suits with huge HP carrying a HMG, a weapon with huge DPS up to medium ranges. the basic HMG can down a proto brick tanked assault/logi in around a second. this weapon has the DPS of a shotgun but instead of 20 meter max range, you have 50 meter max range

. . . a new player simply has almost no chance to tackle a full HP heavy, even if he gets from behind, the heavy has enough HP to turn around and kill you under a second. the HP/DPS gap between medium suits and heavies is just too big imho.

this is not rocket science, nothing complex here.

There is a perception that heavies are OP, and to me it feels true that they are too strong. Some have called for nerfs against heavy/sentines suits, but I believe the issue is a complex one, and that heavies may quickly end up underpowered if they have their HP nerfed in addition to to fixing the multitude of other balance issues that need to be taken care of. Before any discussion of HP nerfs, several issues have to be handled.

The Issues:

The assaults are underpowered. Right now scouts can tank nearly as much HP as assaults while being faster, having a 2nd equipment, having a bonus to cloaks, being great a detection and scan evasion; assaults pretty much suck by comparison. Medium frame slots are very messed up in my opinion, think this stuff needs to be fixed anyway, so might as well use the slot fixes it as a means to buff assaults and other mediums. Others have suggested things like regeneration to give assaults a niche, and also increasing base HP of mediums. Anyway, one of the reason heavies seem to be so unstoppable is that the main combat forces (assaults) are so bad right now, if assaults were buffed, heavies might seem less OP by comparison; I think assaults will get buffed anyway, so its safer to just wait for the assault buff rather than just nerf heavies now, nerfing heavies followed by an assault buff could leave heavies comparatively underpowered. Too much change at once is dangerous.

The slow-down-when-hit effect on weapons. There is an effect that reduces your speed when you are hit by a weapon. No one wanted it, and no one likes it. It nullifies the mobility advantage of many suits, and it creates balance issues with many weapons; basically each round hitting slows down the target a bit, and high rate-of-fire weapons fire more rounds are fire more rounds at a given time interval, which makes the slow-down effect even higher. This gives the CR, aCR, HMG, and other high ROF weapons an extra (and unnecessary) advantage. This effect is the absolute worst with the HMG because of its extremely high rate of fire, this effect needs to be removed.

Projectile damage profile (-5% to shields/+10% to armor). Every other damage profile has the damage bonus to one kind of HP (shields or armor), and the damage deficit against the other type of HP add up to 0; for example, laser damage profile is +20% to shields, and -20% to armor, adds up to 0. The projectile damage bonus has a net 5% gain, this creates a slight balance issue for the HMG (and combat rifle).The damage profile for projectiles need to be changed to something with a net 0 gain like everything else.

The rifles and other weapons got nerfed in 1.8, but HMG was not nerfed. I think HMG's were at a good place in 1.7, but nerfing so many weapons while leaving the HMG alone gave the HMG an unnecessary comparative buff. The HMG might need a small 5-10% nerf after the removal of the slow-down effect, and the change to the projectile damage profile if heavies still appear to be overpowered after.

Heavies in vehicles. One of the balancing factors that heavies have is their low speed, but getting an LAV or any other vehicle allows a heavy to completely overcome the lack of speed. A popular tactic employed by heavies is the use of LAVs to close the distance between enemies, instantly jumping out and killing enemies, and instantly jumping back in the LAV to escape whenever they start taking significant damage. This wasn't much of an issue for me personally before 1.8 because my packed AV grenades were enough to destroy a militia LAV and its occupants, but now they can't because maximum carried grenades for all grenade types have been reduced. There needs to be enter/exit animations to give those around time to damage or escape the entering/exiting heavy, or at least something like a hack sequence to enter or exit. This 0 risk high reward tactic needs to be handled.

These things need to be out of the way first before nerfing the HP of heavies becomes an option.

There is a perception that heavies are OP, and to me it feels true that they are too strong. Some have called for nerfs against heavy/sentines suits, but I believe the issue is a complex one, and that heavies may quickly end up underpowered if they have their HP nerfed in addition to to fixing the multitude of other balance issues that need to be taken care of. Before any discussion of HP nerfs, several issues have to be handled.

Have been saying this for donkey's my friend, glad to see someone has finally acknowledged us.
However I would like to point out for your discussion a Gallante Sentinel is capable of achieving 1900 EHP does that not seem a little much?

Also as a suggestion when a heavy reach near critical mass for stacking (1700 EHP) let me use a swarm launcher on him.