I've been so busy at work so I haven't had a chance to listen to the pod cast. I do have the following to say about PFC and the Dirt Nap League:

I'll be honest in that I think that PFC was a good system despite its flaws. That's why I'm still paying the PFC council ISK weekly out of passive ISK generated by Oddelulf. Planetary Conquest is broken and the progression form Pubs to PC is broken as well and I think PFC could have filled a niche in that progression. No, I don't think every player should be coddled, but at the same time new corps don't deserve to be draped in raw meat and then thrown into a cage full of lions with only a toothpick as a weapon.

Right now though with the current 100% Molden Heath mentality PFC can't exist. I do think that the Dirt Nap League could be something completely unique in gaming and something worthwhile to really explore. I do however understand it has some major political hurdles before it that will be very difficult to overcome. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Just like PFC at least something was tried to make the game more entertaining.

I do think the DNL is the best bet to continue to provide players content in the current Planetary Conquest environment unless something gives and CCP begins to address some of the glaring and lingering issues in Planetary Conquest 1.0. I do think that 98% control has caught the attention of CCP and helped to start the gears of change spinning, and if we end up with the system being repaired some and the Dirt Nap League is no longer possible or doesn't make sense so be it. At least we were able to demonstrate how broken the system is and foster the momentum needed to address issues such as passive ISK and clone pack size.

DNSBlack has his own way of discussing issues and is free to express himself just as anyone else. You may not like what he says or how he says it, but hate him or love him he drives the discourse forward even he happens to execute it like someone driving a semi through your living room.

When it comes to the DNL I am going to be the one taking the lead on setting it up and I understand the grave concerns the community has right now with the situation. I think we can work through those concerns and figure out a way to make this a win for everyone. If the community unites and starts a war against DNS so be it. We have gone from stagnation and brush fires to all out conflict that provides content to the whole community. If folks get on board with the DNL then great. We can run tourneys like back in the beta when we still had the fantastic tool of corp battles.

If people ask, "Why would Kain put in the time to run something like this?" My answer is that I love running sports stuff and have a history of doing so in the Dust community even at my own expense: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/04/community-spotlight-kain-spero-tournament-organizer/

I have some ideas on how we can pull this off, so if you are interested reach out to me and let's make this happen.

When it comes to the DNL I am going to be the one taking the lead on setting it up and I understand the grave concerns the community has right now with the situation. I think we can work through those concerns and figure out a way to make this a win for everyone. If the community unites and starts a war against DNS so be it. We have gone from stagnation and brush fires to all out conflict that provides content to the whole community. If folks get on board with the DNL then great. We can run tourneys like back in the beta when we still had the fantastic tool of corp battles.

Why would anyone get on board with it? Why would anyone in their right mind get on board with it? DNS is responsible for killing PFC, which was better for the community than what DNSBlack is trying to push. PFC was based on the reality that it's been proven egotistical overlords running PFC don't work. That's why we had a Council.

Now you want us to bow down to an even more egotistical tool than we've ever seen before, and join his alliance to participate? You've gotta be kidding me, Kane. You're smarter than that. And so are the rest of us.

Why would anyone get on board with it? Why would anyone in their right mind get on board with it? DNS is responsible for killing PFC, which was better for the community than what DNSBlack is trying to push. PFC was based on the reality that it's been proven egotistical overlords running PFC don't work. That's why we had a Council.

Now you want us to bow down to an even more egotistical tool than we've ever seen before, and join his alliance to participate? You've gotta be kidding me, Kane. You're smarter than that. And so are the rest of us.

DNSBlack has his own way of discussing issues and is free to express himself just as anyone else. You may not like what he says or how he says it, but hate him or love him he drives the discourse forward even he happens to execute it like someone driving a semi through your living room.

When it comes to the DNL I am going to be the one taking the lead on setting it up and I understand the grave concerns the community has right now with the situation. I think we can work through those concerns and figure out a way to make this a win for everyone. If the community unites and starts a war against DNS so be it. We have gone from stagnation and brush fires to all out conflict that provides content to the whole community. If folks get on board with the DNL then great. We can run tourneys like back in the beta when we still had the fantastic tool of corp battles.

If people ask, "Why would Kain put in the time to run something like this?" My answer is that I love running sports stuff and have a history of doing so in the Dust community even at my own expense: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/04/community-spotlight-kain-spero-tournament-organizer/

I have some ideas on how we can pull this off, so if you are interested reach out to me and let's make this happen.

Im just trying to play devils advocate here but name a corp that started on PFC and went on to be really successful in PC? None that i can think of, but you got to understand PFC does not work in the current state of PC for example lets say we left PFC alone and DNS took the rest of the district who are you going to attack and be able to maintain a district outside of PFC?

edit: people need to understand that if CCP does open up more land PFC might be able to be expanded beyond one planet and there comes a point were a corp can only hold x amount of land too, but who knows what will happen with PC just need to wait for fanfest

Why would anyone get on board with it? Why would anyone in their right mind get on board with it? DNS is responsible for killing PFC, which was better for the community than what DNSBlack is trying to push. PFC was based on the reality that it's been proven egotistical overlords running PFC don't work. That's why we had a Council.

Now you want us to bow down to an even more egotistical tool than we've ever seen before, and join his alliance to participate? You've gotta be kidding me, Kane. You're smarter than that. And so are the rest of us.

Im just trying to play devils advocate here but name a corp that started on PFC and went on to be really successful in PC? None that i can think of, but you got to understand PFC does not work in the current state of PC for example lets say we left PFC alone and DNS took the rest of the district who are you going to attack and be able to maintain a district outside of PFC?

edit: people need to understand that if CCP does open up more land PFC might be able to be expanded beyond one planet and there comes a point were a corp can only hold x amount of land too, but who knows what will happen with PC just need to wait for fanfest

Nyain Chan...

This is very much a mechanical problem. You might've noticed new corps don't enter PC. Period. Any new power in Planetary Conquest has simply been formed of the remains of another corp that had power. It's functionally impossible for new players to enter PC, unless an area such as PFC is opened. Both the mechanics of clone packs and passive ISK generation ensure existing players will always have complete dominance, until CCP replaces this terrible gamemode.



This is complete bull. More space means more money for the same folks that are already making too much money. Nothing more, nothing less. The only people who want this, are people who have a ton of districts and can easily get more. Did you ever consider why they would suggest that so heavily?

what about Nyain Chan?

Will people have to have a DNS tag if they want to have land? Yes.

Will they have to have a DNS tag in order to participate in the DNL? No.

As I said before I will be leading up the establishment of the DNL, and I don't expect anyone to bow down to DNSBlack.

whats compete bull how many district has Nyain gained since joining DNS? i tell you 0 so to say its easier to get more district while in DNS the third largest landholder in dust has gain no land since joining DNS

Kain,

I can justify working with someone who's in-game goals are opposed to mine if i truly believe they are trying to make the game better and they are willing to step back from the "in-game" and work it off-line to figure out how to achieve some things... you are a good example of that. I CAN"T justify working with an unstable meglomaniac like Black. Far as I'm concerned his name is now DNS BatShitCrazy. (That said this has all nicely set you up to swoop in as the "good guy" )

My short term recommendation would to be to push for a CCP vetted (with Player facilitation) third-party tourney on roughly a bi-montly basis. I've got a lot of basic concerns with mixing a tourney into the politcal PC landscape. The better option is that it is isolated from PC to bring 1) more interest and 2) a perception of legitimacy and impartiality.

Even if CCP doesn't want to go the third party route then use the special contract mechanics and run it all internal. For arena play to really take off we need some level of impartiality injected. Rightly or wrongly, anytime corp tags are involved using the existing mechanics available to players things will be shaky.

Long term, the corp contract mechanic would be great and could facilitate true 100% player generated and ran arena content (streams, ISK betting, the whole 9 yards).

There will be NO Dirtnap league. Players want competition and victory to mean something not a ladder. DNS Black can **** Off and his weak attempts to show concern for dust players and the community.

Any corp that participates in this is accepting EVE as their master and chinese food is here so back later

As crazy as the whole situation may seem DNS dot has the personnel, ISK financial resources, and territorial control to actually pull something like this off.

nyain san has a history of always backing the winning horse and changing sides if it looks like they are on a losing side. Doesn't seem like nyain has been big on expansion but very big on protecting its ASSets.

I see a serious disconenct between Black's interview statements, EVE side coms discussions, and position statements and videos and what you are saying. I'm also pretty confident that when Black comments on this in his DNS Black persona or CPM9 candidate hat it's the same position.

Why not let the PC system playout however it's going to play out and put the same amount of time and effort into workign with the CCP community team to run totally legit tournements outside the political construct of PC?

I'm not a "good guy" and haven't claimed to be one, but I do care about the Dust community. I have to say that the the Urgent Fury tournament scarred me so bad I even have trouble thinking about TWL. Thankfully I can largely leave that to others that are interested in that sort of thing.

I understand where you are coming from regarding using existing mechanics to allow players to run their own tournaments and leagues. I had to deal with that exact issue when I was rocking out my Imperfects tag (will always be an IMP at heart), but there are ways to overcome it. As for CCP creating the tools to facilitate some kind of arena mode or way for players to run their own tournaments I would love to see that happen. That said I think that using DNS control of Molden Heath we can execute it here and now. Granted we are sacrificing Planetary Conquest for an arena/tourney mode, but Planetary Conquest was already a broken game mode and was only driving both winners and losers from Dust. The status quo had to go.

There are already discussions being had with websites like www.Eve-Bet.com and even some Dust players with Dev skills about setting up a way to have ISK betting be a reality for the DNL on the Eve and Dust side. We are also looking for folks that are interested in streaming as well for DNL matches. As crazy as the whole situation may seem DNS dot has the personnel, ISK financial resources, and territorial control to actually pull something like this off.