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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3351
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Posted - 2014.04.17 18:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been so busy at work so I haven't had a chance to listen to the pod cast. I do have the following to say about PFC and the Dirt Nap League:
I'll be honest in that I think that PFC was a good system despite its flaws. That's why I'm still paying the PFC council ISK weekly out of passive ISK generated by Oddelulf. Planetary Conquest is broken and the progression form Pubs to PC is broken as well and I think PFC could have filled a niche in that progression. No, I don't think every player should be coddled, but at the same time new corps don't deserve to be draped in raw meat and then thrown into a cage full of lions with only a toothpick as a weapon.
Right now though with the current 100% Molden Heath mentality PFC can't exist. I do think that the Dirt Nap League could be something completely unique in gaming and something worthwhile to really explore. I do however understand it has some major political hurdles before it that will be very difficult to overcome. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Just like PFC at least something was tried to make the game more entertaining.
I do think the DNL is the best bet to continue to provide players content in the current Planetary Conquest environment unless something gives and CCP begins to address some of the glaring and lingering issues in Planetary Conquest 1.0. I do think that 98% control has caught the attention of CCP and helped to start the gears of change spinning, and if we end up with the system being repaired some and the Dirt Nap League is no longer possible or doesn't make sense so be it. At least we were able to demonstrate how broken the system is and foster the momentum needed to address issues such as passive ISK and clone pack size.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3352
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 19:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
DNSBlack has his own way of discussing issues and is free to express himself just as anyone else. You may not like what he says or how he says it, but hate him or love him he drives the discourse forward even he happens to execute it like someone driving a semi through your living room.
When it comes to the DNL I am going to be the one taking the lead on setting it up and I understand the grave concerns the community has right now with the situation. I think we can work through those concerns and figure out a way to make this a win for everyone. If the community unites and starts a war against DNS so be it. We have gone from stagnation and brush fires to all out conflict that provides content to the whole community. If folks get on board with the DNL then great. We can run tourneys like back in the beta when we still had the fantastic tool of corp battles.
If people ask, "Why would Kain put in the time to run something like this?" My answer is that I love running sports stuff and have a history of doing so in the Dust community even at my own expense: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/04/community-spotlight-kain-spero-tournament-organizer/
I have some ideas on how we can pull this off, so if you are interested reach out to me and let's make this happen.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3353
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 21:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:
Why would anyone get on board with it? Why would anyone in their right mind get on board with it? DNS is responsible for killing PFC, which was better for the community than what DNSBlack is trying to push. PFC was based on the reality that it's been proven egotistical overlords running PFC don't work. That's why we had a Council.
Now you want us to bow down to an even more egotistical tool than we've ever seen before, and join his alliance to participate? You've gotta be kidding me, Kane. You're smarter than that. And so are the rest of us.
People can get on board because if they want to be involved in Planetary Conquest they really don't have much of a choice other than going to war. Does that create a warm fuzzy feeling for everyone? Probably not and I can't out right say If PFC is better or worse than what will be the DNL because the DNL has yet to be established. How the DNL is going to function is something I am still working on but I can answer these two questions easily:
Will people have to have a DNS tag if they want to have land? Yes.
Will they have to have a DNS tag in order to participate in the DNL? No.
As I said before I will be leading up the establishment of the DNL, and I don't expect anyone to bow down to DNSBlack. A chunk of the community kept clamoring for PFC to be burnt down and as long as there were districts not under direct control or in the same organization that wasn't something that was going to be a sure thing. I'm not happy about PFC being mothballed for now, but I have some plans to establish PFC 2.0. Those plans will likely have to wait until after FanFest. In the meantime the PFC council continues to exist and I can see their input on the private PFC forums helping to move the dialogue forward.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3353
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 22:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Kain, I can justify working with someone who's in-game goals are opposed to mine if i truly believe they are trying to make the game better and they are willing to step back from the "in-game" and work it off-line to figure out how to achieve some things... you are a good example of that. I CAN"T justify working with an unstable meglomaniac like Black. Far as I'm concerned his name is now DNS BatShitCrazy. (That said this has all nicely set you up to swoop in as the "good guy"  ) My short term recommendation would to be to push for a CCP vetted (with Player facilitation) third-party tourney on roughly a bi-montly basis. I've got a lot of basic concerns with mixing a tourney into the politcal PC landscape. The better option is that it is isolated from PC to bring 1) more interest and 2) a perception of legitimacy and impartiality. Even if CCP doesn't want to go the third party route then use the special contract mechanics and run it all internal. For arena play to really take off we need some level of impartiality injected. Rightly or wrongly, anytime corp tags are involved using the existing mechanics available to players things will be shaky. Long term, the corp contract mechanic would be great and could facilitate true 100% player generated and ran arena content (streams, ISK betting, the whole 9 yards).
I'm not a "good guy" and haven't claimed to be one, but I do care about the Dust community. I have to say that the the Urgent Fury tournament scarred me so bad I even have trouble thinking about TWL. Thankfully I can largely leave that to others that are interested in that sort of thing.
I understand where you are coming from regarding using existing mechanics to allow players to run their own tournaments and leagues. I had to deal with that exact issue when I was rocking out my Imperfects tag (will always be an IMP at heart), but there are ways to overcome it. As for CCP creating the tools to facilitate some kind of arena mode or way for players to run their own tournaments I would love to see that happen. That said I think that using DNS control of Molden Heath we can execute it here and now. Granted we are sacrificing Planetary Conquest for an arena/tourney mode, but Planetary Conquest was already a broken game mode and was only driving both winners and losers from Dust. The status quo had to go.
There are already discussions being had with websites like www.Eve-Bet.com and even some Dust players with Dev skills about setting up a way to have ISK betting be a reality for the DNL on the Eve and Dust side. We are also looking for folks that are interested in streaming as well for DNL matches. As crazy as the whole situation may seem DNS dot has the personnel, ISK financial resources, and territorial control to actually pull something like this off.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3353
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 22:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I see a serious disconenct between Black's interview statements, EVE side coms discussions, and position statements and videos and what you are saying. I'm also pretty confident that when Black comments on this in his DNS Black persona or CPM9 candidate hat it's the same position.
Why not let the PC system playout however it's going to play out and put the same amount of time and effort into workign with the CCP community team to run totally legit tournements outside the political construct of PC?
The PC system did play out and the blight that is passive ISK led to the inevitable outcome we now have. I fought long and hard to prevent the inevitable, but I wonder if I wasn't just delaying real solutions being put in place. From the CRONOS war, stoking the EON/LOI conflict, organizing the initial FEC assault, and fighting with GTA and then mercing for RA I tried to prevent equilibrium or one side being completely destroyed. It's a loosing battle when you are fighting against the core design of PC where you earn more money by farming then fighting. Maybe now that Planetary Conquest is essentially destroyed it will finally free up CCP to change the current paradigm and see what happens. The problem is that with a system that is even limping along there is the desire to maintain the status quo and not try bold experiments. With essentially the endgame of PC reached as was predicted by Free Beers before PC even launched you can't really screw up PC any more than it is right now.
As for working with the CCP community team there are folks that will still run some events through CCP, but there is something awesome about players taking the sandbox that is Planetary Conquest and truly shaping it into something unique that I don't think has ever been seen in gaming. We are on a new frontier and blazing the trail as we go, but I'm sure it will be a fun ride however it ends up. Sometimes things crashing down can provide as much content and entertainment as building them up.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3353
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 23:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Without having someone gobble up all of Molden Heath I doubt the anti-passive ISK discussion would have been able to gain as much traction. Again the only reason folks have to change tags is if they want to participate in events that would involve holding land like a conquest tournament over a single planet where the corp with the most districts at the end of the tourney period wins.
When it comes to being involved in the DNL I don't see forcing a tag change as a necessary for participation. I understand where DNSBlack was coming from, but it's just not needed. DNSBlack has delegated setting up the league on the ground to me, so I plan on using my discretion in situations like this. I'm extremely familiar with the friction tag changes create. As an example ERA districts on the map actually represent FA, IMPS, TEAM, and TRE in addition to ERA. That sort of friction is the exact thing that would reduce participation.
Dust 514 is a sandbox game and it's the players that run the sandbox. In beta the sandbox consisted of corp battles and I used those tools to great effect with billions in ISK betted by eve players, hundreds of Dust players participating in a seeded double elimination tournament, and a final match that had hundreds of Eve pilots duking it out in the skies above. These are stories that need be created in New Eden using the sandbox we have been given and not in a vacuum created by having matches conjured up out of thin air by CCP. For me doing it right means it actually happens in the sandbox, and for this to break down the walls of what is possible in a FPS game it needs to actually happen on the ground in New Eden.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Kain Spero
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3353
|
Posted - 2014.04.18 13:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have now listened to the podcast.
I had a meeting last night with TWL and DNSBlack and I have put the relationship between DNS and TWL on hold. When it comes to matters of Dust 514 and the Dust community DNSBlack will now be deferring to me. The Dirt Nap League has also now been put on hold indefinitely.
After FanFest the PFC will be reestablished and it WILL NOT require membership in DNS dot to participate. I will continue my discussions with the PFC Council and its administrator and seek their advice on how best to kick off PFC 2.0. There will be consideration given to Bosena also being reopened as Thunderdome so that Fittaken can be established as a community zone. I appreciate my friends in the community that brought this situation to my attention.
The pursuit of 100% Molden Heath control will continue in the meantime to exemplify the broken nature of key mechanics such as passive ISK and the inept tools of war such as anemic clone packs.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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