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NAV HIV
The Generals General Tso's Alliance
1445
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Posted - 2014.04.14 14:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I actually want to know, because wearing a cloak in this game gives you about as much invisibility as wearing black clothes and laying in the middle of the street. If you think that's OP then you should rethink your Dust career, or get your eyes checked.
Eyesight is OP... Nerf it... I want more threads on it... |
GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
42
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Posted - 2014.04.14 14:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
It takes 0% talent or thought to engage cloake run 70 meters parallel to hostiles flank and drop uplinks. You used to have to uses "cover to cover" now it's just sprint though an open area to flank.
Flank514 100% of the time-my question is why are there any other roles other than scouts? |
Aszazel
R 0 N 1 N
173
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Posted - 2014.04.14 16:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
Standard definition televisions make the cloak OP, actually it makes every other guy in the game OP to you. Its actually DUST 514 Legendary Mode. If you can go 20/0 on a standard def TV, when you switch to 1080 ... well. first your brain would melt... then you would be unstoppable. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
912
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Posted - 2014.04.14 16:27:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:human peripheral vision is weak, and so if your not directly focused on the edge of your screen the scouts blue profile cant be detected by the human eye.
aka you get folled by cloaks because science.
and if you do happen to seee them, there is a split second delay while your brain trys to figure out if it really was a cloaky or weather or not it was the flickering of your tv screen.
that delay is what gets you killed.
the cloak is camoflauge, and camoflauge works. i wish people would stop saying that the camoflauge isnt an advantage becuase it most certainly is, hence why its so heavyly used in actual warfare.
Oh I never said it is not an advantage it surely is (if cloaks won't give a advantage what wold be the point of them). But I said they are far from OP...and easy to counter as long as you know what your are doing. And even snipers can find cloaked scouts...
As you said we are not invisible we are camouflaged and in this regard the cloaks works as intended...
BTW anyone using a cloak without using cover is rather stupid and easy prey, I have killed quite a lot of cloaked suits that believed no one can see them and no they didn't appear on my tac net but I could see their shimmer and started shooting. There is not much a scout can do when this happens to him while cloaked... |
DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
5058
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Posted - 2014.04.14 16:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
Aszazel wrote:Standard definition televisions make the cloak OP, actually it makes every other guy in the game OP to you. Its actually DUST 514 Legendary Mode. If you can go 20/0 on a standard def TV, when you switch to 1080 ... well. first your brain would melt... then you would be unstoppable. 480p on a Stadard CRT looks cleaner than 1080p on a high definition flat screen. The textures look crisper in 720-1080 but it also looks worse when the frames drop. I used a standard TV until late last year. It really isn't bad at all
Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
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Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
793
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:cloak vs dark background = dead cloaker
cloak vs super bright or sky background = invisible
That's how it goes....
Cloak just needs the free non-stacking-penalized complex dampener removed, it messes up the ewar meta. I disagree, that's the only thing keeping it from being UP.
Oh right, because being invisible is so not worth it.
Fixing swarms
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Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
2
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Muzzle flash on minmatar weapons makes it hard to keep track of the player.
Dimmed Light blue chevrons/tanks/CRUs behind the scout make it hard to concentrate on the exact color of the cloak, making it hard to see as well.
Honestly I think the main problem is the sound. If someone stands right next to you and de-cloaks, the sound is barely audible compared to gunfire, RDVs, heck even the background game ambience. The sound on de-cloak was supposed to be a balancing factor so that if a player decloaks right behind you, you'll know about it.
Finally, it's disorienting to play a FPS where the only way to move your head is to move your entire body. Unless you're standing still, looking in the same direction, or have your sensitivity set to max in order to reduce the amount of time you spend "turning", it's almost impossible for your eyes to spot the difference between motion blur and a cloak shimmer.
And to top it off, if I do end up seeing a scout, and I do shoot at them as they're coming at me, and I do manage to fire at them for 10 seconds, they still don't die because they also have 500-600 ehp. Trying to stay on target while your muzzle flash gets in the way, or while he jumps around like crazy, or while there's a huge group of blue dots in the background, or while the person runs right past you disorienting you because of the limits of a 2D perspective FPS...makes it so that unless I'm focusing REALLY hard, I will probably end up dying by the scout 50% of the time.
Use my eyes? Get my eyes checked? Keep situational awareness? It's all excuses for the cloak creating an unfair fight and you/me/every other scout knows it. The disadvantage of the shotgun is range. The cloak eliminates that issue, and the main balancing factors for the cloak (i.e. sound and not firing from de-cloak) are currently broken, causing all of the problems that people keep complaining about.
It's a fair fight if you sneak up behind me, de-cloak, and I see a red-dot blip on the radar because of my precision for about a second before you're able to start firing on me. It's a fair fight if you de-cloak too close to me and the sound made by the cloak gives me the chance to run around and face you. It's a fair fight if you have to use dampeners and you de-cloak 10+ meters away from me in order to insta-kill me with a suit that has almost no hp at all. It's a fair fight if I watch my back all the time and am able to kill you within seconds because I spotted you. I only use the CR, SMG and Flaylock. I use the Minmatar Assault. I have never not been able to see a cloaked scout that was in my vision, and if I did then they did not attack me. I highly doubt the Cloak is OP. I have only been killed by people using the Cloak twice, and they were both from the back and so it could be done without a cloak. The entire "fair fight" perception is invalid because of the way the game works: unfair tactics are the name of the game. If I attack a heavy who has an HMG from 300m away with a Sniper Rifle, then it could be considered an unfair fight by your reasoning, because they never have the chance to kill me. There are countless examples like that where unfair tactics are simply the tactics that are used by default. Hey look I can lie too. I can see cloaks easily from 100 meters away even when they are standing completely still. I have perfect situational awareness and am amazing. Only two people have ever snuck up on me because Of my eyes in the back of my head, and because yes I am that awesome. Did I tell you guys how awesome I am? So awesome. To tell the truth I LOVE MY FOTM SCOUT. I get to fire at people when they can't even see me, You can't fire while cloaked Quote:making me finally go positive on my KDR. my KDR is still negative when using cloakQuote: LOL 1,000 free damage and you can do nothing... hahahahahahaha.
It's probably because I run a basic Minie Knife/ScP(sometimes a rail rifle instead) scout, but I can't fit both Shield Extenders/Armor plates, AND a Cloak. I can tell you that almost every time I try to use cloak to approach someone, I die. The only thing I can use cloak for is to run across an open area without getting hit by a sniper. I play with my music (also includes BG sounds that do not make sense in exchange for a more lonely feeling game) slider at 2/100, effectively making most of what I hear just what I need to hear. I if another scout de-cloaks anywhere near me, I'll hear him, but my gun game is just awful so I'll shoot at him and maybe hit him once (admittedly my accuracy is so awful that even if they were an Assault I'd miss). I can also see most cloaks that cross my sight, but my gun game again prevents me from hitting, and as someone else said it tends to be a race to cover followed by a duel with whatever med-range weapons we each have available. Really, I'm better off just equipping some modules and better weapons instead. So turn down your music slider if you can't hear a scout de-cloak (seriously it is pretty loud with the music down). Come back if that doesn't work, and we can see if we can find out why it worked for me and not someone else. |
Aria Gomes
R 0 N 1 N
384
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Only thing OP about the cloak is when shots are fired before the person is decloaked. |
The Terminator T-1000
Skynet Incorporated
397
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:44:00 -
[69] - Quote
Are you scouts worried about being nerfed? |
Leonid Tybalt
Inner.Hell
456
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I actually want to know, because wearing a cloak in this game gives you about as much invisibility as wearing black clothes and laying in the middle of the street. If you think that's OP then you sserethink your Dust career, or get your eyes checked.
Erm that depends completely on how big of a firefight the cloak is used in, lighting conditions on the map (certain lighting makes the blue shimmer less visible than during others), range, how much the scout is moving around etc.
Also, it's an undeniable fact that countering people who use cloaks require a heck of a lot more player skill, than using a cloak requires. Any scrub can cloak up and use shotguns in peoples backs, but knowing what to look for and anticipate how a cloaked scout is going to move isn't something anyone picks up after a minute... |
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2928
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Travis Stanush wrote:Most of the time it's because you can't see them on your tacnet or you engaged in a firefight. As a heavy I canGÇÖt see anything on my Tacnet, so it makes me more reliant on visual scans. I have been able to see Cloaked Scouts from day 1, and can often even spot the slight ripple in the air of a Cloaked Scout standing still.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Onesimus Tarsus
703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1923
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
The Terminator T-1000 wrote:Are you scouts worried about being nerfed? Nope. Dump the cloak. We can take it.
1.9 forum warrior. SMG wielder. Mama's boy.
I'm right, you're wrong. Adjust.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
7936
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Posted - 2014.04.14 17:55:00 -
[73] - Quote
The Terminator T-1000 wrote:Are you scouts worried about being nerfed?
Wouldn't you feel the same way if your favorite class/role finally got up to par only to have nearly half the community come down against it and want it nerfed again?
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2928
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Posted - 2014.04.14 18:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I actually want to know, because wearing a cloak in this game gives you about as much invisibility as wearing black clothes and laying in the middle of the street. If you think that's OP then you should rethink your Dust career, or get your eyes checked. So... Cloaks aren't really that good, since anyone looking at the screen with their eyes can see them. They should be removed from the game until we get them to where they do what is advertised. They are still a lot better than crouching in a corner, and you are less likely to be noticed when crossing open ground, particularly if people are distracted. Cloaks are not OP, but that does not mean they are not useful. And the reduction to your signature does help when sneaking up behind people.
Think of Cloaks as camouflage rather than invisibility.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2929
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Posted - 2014.04.14 18:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:I only use cloaks for the active complex dampener. Allows me to fit more range amps/plates! The invisibility is not that good, unless your enemies have no situational awareness.
If someone manage to sneak up on you from behind as a scout, he should have the upper hand, especially with a shotty (shortest range weapon in the game). Cloaked or not. Spectral Clone is the perfect name for a Cloaked Scout.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
316
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Posted - 2014.04.14 18:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
Since 1.8 I can only remember one time being bamboozled by a cloak. I was engaged in a fight with a cloaked minmatar scout who was busy stabbing blue dots around the objective, and I killed him twice. He came back and I saw him come up the steps, I backed up a bit to broaden my field of view, somehow he managed to slip out of ny sight and stab me from the side of the wall I was hugging. Now I watched predator maybe 1000 times as a kid, so the mind of the average cloaked is beneath my situational awareness, but that's the one scout who made me jump. The rest of them I'm like or they were insomuch a position they would have killed me cloaked or not.
Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
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Onesimus Tarsus
703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1923
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Posted - 2014.04.14 19:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
I particularly enjoyed the comment that "even snipers can see the cloaks!"
If i had all day to stare at the open parts of the map like a diamond broker, I'd see cloaks too. However, I'm to busy trying to actually get work done to gaze fixedly looking for blue blurs and ripples.
1.9 forum warrior. SMG wielder. Mama's boy.
I'm right, you're wrong. Adjust.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5103
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Posted - 2014.04.14 20:09:00 -
[78] - Quote
There are two possible problems with cloakers being invisible. It's not always bad eyesight.
This provides a solution to the more common problem. |
Heavenly Daughter
the Aurum Grinder and Company
367
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Posted - 2014.04.14 20:15:00 -
[79] - Quote
Just curious, I wonder if CCP would give us numbers of Gallente Scouts before 1.8 and now lol.
Probably not
The Organ Grinder & Co. EVE
Heavenly Daughter-Merc Records
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5103
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Posted - 2014.04.14 20:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Oh right, because being invisible is so not worth it. Right, because posting pics of what was actually implemented instead of the original concept that got nerfed before they implemented it into 1.8 didn't support your argument. |
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Roxas Shin Hikaru
63
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Posted - 2014.04.14 20:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
As Cyrus Li Moody says, It's only a tool that is used to take advantage of mercs who are unaware. But yes. It's very silly to hear people complain.
"I hear dorks, but I can't see dorks." ~ Cul-De-Sac Jerk
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
2816
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Posted - 2014.04.25 03:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Sometimes I feel like posts like this one should be reposted in the war room.
That way we can compare opinions of pubbers, lower tiered players to the opinions of the most competitive semi talented people in the game. I only say semi because not even the war room is immune from stupidity.
I agree.....
cause I find it funny arguing with guys that give you advice on how to play but when you look their stats up or see them in game...it's another story. Guys with less than 2KDRs from pubbing all day telling you to "get gud".
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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DEZKA DIABLO
THE FOOTCLAN
672
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Posted - 2014.04.25 03:46:00 -
[83] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I actually want to know, because wearing a cloak in this game gives you about as much invisibility as wearing black clothes and laying in the middle of the street. If you think that's OP then you should rethink your Dust career, or get your eyes checked. The problem is when a guy cloaks right Infront of you then gets the head start with a six kin cr, all he has to do is lose you for a second and he wins
My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
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ishtellian
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
54
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Posted - 2014.04.25 04:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo
Judge explains this amazingly well.
My Heavy Never Dies.
Logibro In training.
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The Eristic
Sad Panda Solutions
424
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Posted - 2014.04.25 04:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
I'm generally fine with them, but they are occasionally completely invisible at full sprint on certain moods/maps. Chalk it up to poor testing or optimization, but they are. No shimmer, sometimes not even the transparent ripple of non-sprint. Then again, I've had rocks and crates fail to render when aiming down sights 30m away, watched them pop in when in hipfire, then watched them DE-render when ads'ing again. Stuff sometimes not working is Dust working as intended. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2940
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Posted - 2014.04.25 05:23:00 -
[86] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:The Terminator T-1000 wrote:Are you scouts worried about being nerfed? Wouldn't you feel the same way if your favorite class/role finally got up to par only to have nearly half the community come down against it and want it nerfed again?
We want cloaks nerfed and assaults buffed.
Scouts are fine.
ak.0 4 LYFE
I am the Lorhak. I speak for the trees.
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nelo kazuma
Da Short Buss Driving School
32
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Posted - 2014.04.25 05:34:00 -
[87] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I actually want to know, because wearing a cloak in this game gives you about as much invisibility as wearing black clothes and laying in the middle of the street. If you think that's OP then you should rethink your Dust career, or get your eyes checked. honestly have no issue with cloak except u should decloak the moment u switch to another weapon other than that its fair |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
2816
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Posted - 2014.04.25 05:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:The Terminator T-1000 wrote:Are you scouts worried about being nerfed? Wouldn't you feel the same way if your favorite class/role finally got up to par only to have nearly half the community come down against it and want it nerfed again?
Noone is asking for a nerf to scout suits......only the cloak equipment.
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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G Torq
ALTA B2O
721
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Posted - 2014.04.25 07:28:00 -
[89] - Quote
People are ... not smart.
Cloaks work as intended - they sort-of hide you, if you play smart.
Someone standing perfectly still is visible, if you know to look for them. Someone walking is visible. Someone sprinting is visible.
Meanwhile, people don't look, people are too busy shooting (and getting shot at), and people are too focused on whatever they intend to do next - Are the same reasons I could run around inside a group of enemies, with my scout BEFORE 1.8 was released, and pick them off 1-by-1, same reasons people get RE'd both at installations and in the middle of the field, and same reason you can fly a dropship up next to an enemy nest and kill them all with missiles.
All that said, the idiot bluedot yesterday, who was running around the Domination objective, while it was being hacked by a cloaked scout, not shooting the scout, but getting in the way of my shots ... that is just being useless!
Team Fairy DUST
HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
2817
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Posted - 2014.04.25 07:32:00 -
[90] - Quote
G Torq wrote:People are ... not smart.
Cloaks work as intended - they sort-of hide you, if you play smart.
Someone standing perfectly still is visible, if you know to look for them. Someone walking is visible. Someone sprinting is visible.
Meanwhile, people don't look, people are too busy shooting (and getting shot at), and people are too focused on whatever they intend to do next - Are the same reasons I could run around inside a group of enemies, with my scout BEFORE 1.8 was released, and pick them off 1-by-1, same reasons people get RE'd both at installations and in the middle of the field, and same reason you can fly a dropship up next to an enemy nest and kill them all with missiles.
All that said, the idiot bluedot yesterday, who was running around the Domination objective, while it was being hacked by a cloaked scout, not shooting the scout, but getting in the way of my shots ... that is just being useless!
Do you run around the map looking for cloaked scouts standing still? I mean, when an objective is being taken or needs to be taken, are you running aroudn the area looking for claked scouts standing still? Every time you turn a corner, are you looking for them as well?
weRideNDie2getha since 2010
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