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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
5037
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Posted - 2014.04.12 04:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Muzzle flash on minmatar weapons makes it hard to keep track of the player.
Dimmed Light blue chevrons/tanks/CRUs behind the scout make it hard to concentrate on the exact color of the cloak, making it hard to see as well.
Honestly I think the main problem is the sound. If someone stands right next to you and de-cloaks, the sound is barely audible compared to gunfire, RDVs, heck even the background game ambience. The sound on de-cloak was supposed to be a balancing factor so that if a player decloaks right behind you, you'll know about it.
Finally, it's disorienting to play a FPS where the only way to move your head is to move your entire body. Unless you're standing still, looking in the same direction, or have your sensitivity set to max in order to reduce the amount of time you spend "turning", it's almost impossible for your eyes to spot the difference between motion blur and a cloak shimmer.
And to top it off, if I do end up seeing a scout, and I do shoot at them as they're coming at me, and I do manage to fire at them for 10 seconds, they still don't die because they also have 500-600 ehp. Trying to stay on target while your muzzle flash gets in the way, or while he jumps around like crazy, or while there's a huge group of blue dots in the background, or while the person runs right past you disorienting you because of the limits of a 2D perspective FPS...makes it so that unless I'm focusing REALLY hard, I will probably end up dying by the scout 50% of the time.
Use my eyes? Get my eyes checked? Keep situational awareness? It's all excuses for the cloak creating an unfair fight and you/me/every other scout knows it. The disadvantage of the shotgun is range. The cloak eliminates that issue, and the main balancing factors for the cloak (i.e. sound and not firing from de-cloak) are currently broken, causing all of the problems that people keep complaining about.
It's a fair fight if you sneak up behind me, de-cloak, and I see a red-dot blip on the radar because of my precision for about a second before you're able to start firing on me. It's a fair fight if you de-cloak too close to me and the sound made by the cloak gives me the chance to run around and face you. It's a fair fight if you have to use dampeners and you de-cloak 10+ meters away from me in order to insta-kill me with a suit that has almost no hp at all. It's a fair fight if I watch my back all the time and am able to kill you within seconds because I spotted you. I only use the CR, SMG and Flaylock. I use the Minmatar Assault. I have never not been able to see a cloaked scout that was in my vision, and if I did then they did not attack me. I highly doubt the Cloak is OP. I have only been killed by people using the Cloak twice, and they were both from the back and so it could be done without a cloak.
The entire "fair fight" perception is invalid because of the way the game works: unfair tactics are the name of the game. If I attack a heavy who has an HMG from 300m away with a Sniper Rifle, then it could be considered an unfair fight by your reasoning, because they never have the chance to kill me. There are countless examples like that where unfair tactics are simply the tactics that are used by default.
Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
2778
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Posted - 2014.04.12 04:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
It's usually me getting flanked while or getting out of a previous fight. And the occasional gallente scout playing Houdini.
Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad.
648
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Posted - 2014.04.12 05:04:00 -
[33] - Quote
The same reason why I can sneak up on snipers and whack whack whack THUNDERGROOVE (Melee) SumRandumbN00b
Mmmm Scout ak.0
Projects: TDBS | SDETool
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix
547
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Muzzle flash on minmatar weapons makes it hard to keep track of the player.
Dimmed Light blue chevrons/tanks/CRUs behind the scout make it hard to concentrate on the exact color of the cloak, making it hard to see as well.
Honestly I think the main problem is the sound. If someone stands right next to you and de-cloaks, the sound is barely audible compared to gunfire, RDVs, heck even the background game ambience. The sound on de-cloak was supposed to be a balancing factor so that if a player decloaks right behind you, you'll know about it.
Finally, it's disorienting to play a FPS where the only way to move your head is to move your entire body. Unless you're standing still, looking in the same direction, or have your sensitivity set to max in order to reduce the amount of time you spend "turning", it's almost impossible for your eyes to spot the difference between motion blur and a cloak shimmer.
And to top it off, if I do end up seeing a scout, and I do shoot at them as they're coming at me, and I do manage to fire at them for 10 seconds, they still don't die because they also have 500-600 ehp. Trying to stay on target while your muzzle flash gets in the way, or while he jumps around like crazy, or while there's a huge group of blue dots in the background, or while the person runs right past you disorienting you because of the limits of a 2D perspective FPS...makes it so that unless I'm focusing REALLY hard, I will probably end up dying by the scout 50% of the time.
Use my eyes? Get my eyes checked? Keep situational awareness? It's all excuses for the cloak creating an unfair fight and you/me/every other scout knows it. The disadvantage of the shotgun is range. The cloak eliminates that issue, and the main balancing factors for the cloak (i.e. sound and not firing from de-cloak) are currently broken, causing all of the problems that people keep complaining about.
It's a fair fight if you sneak up behind me, de-cloak, and I see a red-dot blip on the radar because of my precision for about a second before you're able to start firing on me. It's a fair fight if you de-cloak too close to me and the sound made by the cloak gives me the chance to run around and face you. It's a fair fight if you have to use dampeners and you de-cloak 10+ meters away from me in order to insta-kill me with a suit that has almost no hp at all. It's a fair fight if I watch my back all the time and am able to kill you within seconds because I spotted you. I only use the CR, SMG and Flaylock. I use the Minmatar Assault. I have never not been able to see a cloaked scout that was in my vision, and if I did then they did not attack me. I highly doubt the Cloak is OP. I have only been killed by people using the Cloak twice, and they were both from the back and so it could be done without a cloak. The entire "fair fight" perception is invalid because of the way the game works: unfair tactics are the name of the game. If I attack a heavy who has an HMG from 300m away with a Sniper Rifle, then it could be considered an unfair fight by your reasoning, because they never have the chance to kill me. There are countless examples like that where unfair tactics are simply the tactics that are used by default.
Hey look I can lie too.
I can see cloaks easily from 100 meters away even when they are standing completely still. I have perfect situational awareness and am amazing. Only two people have ever snuck up on me because Of my eyes in the back of my head, and because yes I am that awesome. Did I tell you guys how awesome I am? So awesome.
To tell the truth I LOVE MY FOTM SCOUT. I get to fire at people when they can't even see me, making me finally go positive on my KDR. LOL 1,000 free damage and you can do nothing... hahahahahahaha.
"We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
117
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Posted - 2014.04.12 05:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
LEHON Xeon wrote:Because a lot of people are stupid ... Out of curiosity, how stupid is your boss?
Lots and lots of folks whine about cloaks and Scouts, but the Ydubb cloak tears are a special kind of salty. Kinda like "there's nothing I could ever possibly do to beat this darned cloak" salty. Or maybe like "this is all too much ... I'm gonna go biomass myself on Twitch" kinda salty.
Bang?
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Black SlaverX
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
146
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Posted - 2014.04.12 05:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:LEHON Xeon wrote:Because a lot of people are stupid ... Out of curiosity, how stupid is your boss? Lots and lots of folks whine about cloaks and Scouts, but the Ydubb cloak tears are a special kind of salty. Kinda like "there's nothing I could ever possibly do to beat this darned cloak" salty. Or maybe like " this is all too much ... I'm gonna go biomass myself on Twitch" kinda salty.
Oh I can't wait until CCP nerfs your FotM fit and you cry. Have fun being able to kill people while you can scrub. "boo hoo I can't get free kills anymore... boohoo" HTFU.
Watch your back because I might be there.
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
898
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Muzzle flash on minmatar weapons makes it hard to keep track of the player.
Dimmed Light blue chevrons/tanks/CRUs behind the scout make it hard to concentrate on the exact color of the cloak, making it hard to see as well.
Honestly I think the main problem is the sound. If someone stands right next to you and de-cloaks, the sound is barely audible compared to gunfire, RDVs, heck even the background game ambience. The sound on de-cloak was supposed to be a balancing factor so that if a player decloaks right behind you, you'll know about it.
Finally, it's disorienting to play a FPS where the only way to move your head is to move your entire body. Unless you're standing still, looking in the same direction, or have your sensitivity set to max in order to reduce the amount of time you spend "turning", it's almost impossible for your eyes to spot the difference between motion blur and a cloak shimmer.
And to top it off, if I do end up seeing a scout, and I do shoot at them as they're coming at me, and I do manage to fire at them for 10 seconds, they still don't die because they also have 500-600 ehp. Trying to stay on target while your muzzle flash gets in the way, or while he jumps around like crazy, or while there's a huge group of blue dots in the background, or while the person runs right past you disorienting you because of the limits of a 2D perspective FPS...makes it so that unless I'm focusing REALLY hard, I will probably end up dying by the scout 50% of the time.
Use my eyes? Get my eyes checked? Keep situational awareness? It's all excuses for the cloak creating an unfair fight and you/me/every other scout knows it. The disadvantage of the shotgun is range. The cloak eliminates that issue, and the main balancing factors for the cloak (i.e. sound and not firing from de-cloak) are currently broken, causing all of the problems that people keep complaining about.
It's a fair fight if you sneak up behind me, de-cloak, and I see a red-dot blip on the radar because of my precision for about a second before you're able to start firing on me. It's a fair fight if you de-cloak too close to me and the sound made by the cloak gives me the chance to run around and face you. It's a fair fight if you have to use dampeners and you de-cloak 10+ meters away from me in order to insta-kill me with a suit that has almost no hp at all. It's a fair fight if I watch my back all the time and am able to kill you within seconds because I spotted you. I only use the CR, SMG and Flaylock. I use the Minmatar Assault. I have never not been able to see a cloaked scout that was in my vision, and if I did then they did not attack me. I highly doubt the Cloak is OP. I have only been killed by people using the Cloak twice, and they were both from the back and so it could be done without a cloak. The entire "fair fight" perception is invalid because of the way the game works: unfair tactics are the name of the game. If I attack a heavy who has an HMG from 300m away with a Sniper Rifle, then it could be considered an unfair fight by your reasoning, because they never have the chance to kill me. There are countless examples like that where unfair tactics are simply the tactics that are used by default.
There's fair and then there's CCP can't add anything to the game with out some aspect of it being game breaking fair. There is a difference.
1.8 because nothing says fun like getting shotgunned in the back.
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
290
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
is there a problem when iam ina bpo scout suit that has no claok and somehow surives longer than my proto scout that is cloaked?
Elite Gallenten Soldier
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
117
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Posted - 2014.04.12 05:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote: Oh I can't wait until CCP nerfs your FotM fit and you cry. Have fun being able to kill people while you can scrub. "boo hoo I can't get free kills anymore... boohoo" HTFU.
Lol. Been a Scout since Chrome. You're calling out the wrong guy. I'm afraid the onus of HTFU rests upon those whining unduly over cloak.
Bang?
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Jay Westen
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
122
|
Posted - 2014.04.12 05:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
I noticed if I charge at someone while cloaked might as well go ahead and decloak it doesn't matter. |
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General John Ripper
20018
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Posted - 2014.04.12 05:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sometimes I feel like posts like this one should be reposted in the war room.
That way we can compare opinions of pubbers, lower tiered players to the opinions of the most competitive semi talented people in the game. I only say semi because not even the war room is immune from stupidity.
Everytime I get a like, another bug is fixed.
20k bugs fixed. :)
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
5044
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Black SlaverX wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I actually want to know, because wearing a cloak in this game gives you about as much invisibility as wearing black clothes and laying in the middle of the street. If you think that's OP then you should rethink your Dust career, or get your eyes checked. Ok liar. Sure. Killing scouts at 50m+ by looking at their blue outline is very much possible.
Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
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Athena Sentinel
SOE Knights Templar
260
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 02:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
I am tagged by snipers cloaked all the time now. It only took them a week.. and now cloak limits brick scouts so I bet the snipers are loving the 1 shot (not even head shot) kills LOL
If they do any nerfing to the cloak - at least make it real cloak INVISABLE! because all the QQ and the fact its not a real cloak will make it useless and nerf scouts back to 1.7 which is 100% bad in the new world of 1.8 heavy suits! |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1016
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 03:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
Travis Stanush wrote:Most of the time it's because you can't see them on your tacnet or you engaged in a firefight.
yeah, but that's hardly worth qqing about.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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TODDSTER024
Revive Repair Resupply
198
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 03:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Crosshair still turns orange |
Je-NOVA
ZionTCD
5
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
I think it's the profile reduction that makes them too strong. |
stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1282
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 04:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
I've been abusing the cloak + SG combo lately and what I can tell is that it makes shotgunning easymode. In 1.7 there were beast shotgun scouts who relied on tactics and flanking an enemy from behind or else if they were seen they were dead so they played smart.
in 1.8 with a cloak all that is needed is about a 30-40 degree angle on an enemy to remain unseen. Sure if you run head on at an enemy while cloaked they'll see you but with the cloak its just a joke. Before you had to actually come in from behind or at the side of an enemy so you stayed off their screen giving you about 180 degrees to work with, now with a cloak its more like 300 degrees to work with especially since people are focused on the center of the screen not the edges which takes out all of the skill required in tactically flanking.
Cloaks do nothing really for actual shotgunners from 1.7 who learned how to properly flank, but it does is make it easy for bad players who would get destroyed trying to run a SG in 1.7 which is why its OP, trust me I sucked with a SG pre 1.8 but with a cloak I put up 30-40 kills a match... easymode .
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado, Cannabis Sativa Connoisseur
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
2763
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
The cloak shimmer while moving is at medium-long range still a huge advantage. When you are much harder to spot then your chance of survival is much higher. And i use it at its full potential if im closing in at enemys and they are about to turn their point of view into my direction i stop moving. Knowing when to move is key but knowing biology is aswell handy.
In real life we dont have such super cloaking technology yet so we use camouflage to blend in with the enviroment. You would be surprised how many people would walk past a guy who is perfectly hidden with a gun ready to fire. A player who has high situational awareness and knowledge of the game mechanics can get great results with a cloaked scout.
You have to play as predator, attack the weakest link in a party and do hit and runs. No direct confrontation which means you should attack from the side or from behind. Or if you see a group coming your way then you stand still and chill till they got past you, afterwards you do cherry picking on the guys from behind. Sure there are aswell moronic players who just jump on you with remote explosives but usually they fail 8 out of 10 times.
Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
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Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad.
273
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I actually want to know, because wearing a cloak in this game gives you about as much invisibility as wearing black clothes and laying in the middle of the street. If you think that's OP then you should rethink your Dust career, or get your eyes checked. I did, I'm color blind. I don't see the cloak shimmer, only the player outline when he is in my face. That means to late.
Sage /thread
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NEO Arbiter
Red Hand Syndicate
109
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
It can be hard for a heavy to see, we can't see squat on our radar as is, then add in the HMG muzzle flash when firing and your gonna have a bad time.
Tears4Life
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
1899
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
human peripheral vision is weak, and so if your not directly focused on the edge of your screen the scouts blue profile cant be detected by the human eye.
aka you get folled by cloaks because science.
and if you do happen to seee them, there is a split second delay while your brain trys to figure out if it really was a cloaky or weather or not it was the flickering of your tv screen.
that delay is what gets you killed.
the cloak is camoflauge, and camoflauge works. i wish people would stop saying that the camoflauge isnt an advantage becuase it most certainly is, hence why its so heavyly used in actual warfare. |
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
2226
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 05:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
I only use cloaks for the active complex dampener. Allows me to fit more range amps/plates! The invisibility is not that good, unless your enemies have no situational awareness.
If someone manage to sneak up on you from behind as a scout, he should have the upper hand, especially with a shotty (shortest range weapon in the game). Cloaked or not. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
788
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Posted - 2014.04.14 06:05:00 -
[53] - Quote
cloak vs dark background = dead cloaker
cloak vs super bright or sky background = invisible
That's how it goes....
Cloak just needs the free non-stacking-penalized complex dampener removed, it messes up the ewar meta.
Fixing swarms
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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men.
1153
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Quick hint for cloaky cloaks.
Contrast.
Turn it up a few notches.
Cloaks are hard to see for some becuase it's a blue shade, ln a blue shade.
They're different, but not far enough for factiry contrast settings to discern those colors(unless of course you're in Movie mode, nut then you get problems with bleeding and other stuff)
General John Ripper is my 2nd best friend!
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LEHON Xeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
435
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Black SlaverX wrote: Oh I can't wait until CCP nerfs your FotM fit and you cry. Have fun being able to kill people while you can scrub. "boo hoo I can't get free kills anymore... boohoo" HTFU.
Lol. Been a Scout since Chrome. You're calling out the wrong guy. I'm afraid the onus of HTFU rests upon those whining unduly over cloak.
Originally ran a shotgun scout when I first started this game in 1.2 So I'll still be scouting away even when cloak gets the nerfbat.
Always the last person to leave. Always the one cleaning up people's messes.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
5053
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Posted - 2014.04.14 09:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:cloak vs dark background = dead cloaker
cloak vs super bright or sky background = invisible
That's how it goes....
Cloak just needs the free non-stacking-penalized complex dampener removed, it messes up the ewar meta. I disagree, that's the only thing keeping it from being UP.
Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
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tander09
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
91
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Posted - 2014.04.14 10:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
I can see cloakers, but I can't even aim at them at all! even the aim assist doesn't help me kill the cloaks using a smg WITHOUT using ADS(ADS is for wimps. HIP FIRE FTW!!!).
Recruiter link here: https://dust514.com/recruit/FepTs1/
Try and steal my BPOs. I dare ya.
AMARRIAN4LYFE
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Gelan Corbaine
Gladiators Vanguard
391
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 13:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
I like to imagine that an exclamation point appears above my head when I spot a scout and start filling the area with MD rounds . !
No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad.
113
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Posted - 2014.04.14 13:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
I have a big tv. I sit point blank on it. I snipe all the time.
You're invisible if you stop moving from long range. If you're sprinting you're fast enough, with no discernible body movement, I miss a lot more.
Cloaking vs. Ranged works really well.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2068
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 13:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
What it's like shooting at a cloaky scout: http://a.gifb.in/1232550737_predator%20duck%20hunt1.gif |
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