DUST Search - What Happened in 1.8

Awry Barux wrote:

THUNDERGROOVE wrote:

Awry Barux wrote:

The thing is that the FG problem demonstrates just how complex this bug may really be on the back end. If it was as simple as the skill not applying at all, your FG would still fire, just with 25% slower charge time. Which would be terrible, too, but not as bad. The fact that it misfires shows that some parts of the game are applying the skill, and other parts are not.

It means that the battle server isn't calculating until after you're spawned in. Hence why the client knows exactly how much max HP you have. Or in terms of the forge gun it's the client thinks it can fire it faster than the server would allow.

Hmm I haz a theory. To be able to have equipment skill bonuses, since equipment is server-sided, CCP had to move all skill bonus application to server-side. However, due to pre-existing performance issues and having to frequently re-do skill application whenever someone spawns, as well individually applying skill bonuses to each of the dozens of pieces of equipment on the battlefield at any given moment, and then distributing info on these applications to every client, the skill applications get pushed down the stack in favor of hit detection, damage calculation, player position tracking, etc. This would explain the variable amount of time it takes before applying your skills.

Edit: to be clear I'm totally spitballing without knowing anything about their actual code base, I'm just bored.

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Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1706	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:23:00 - [31] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Awry Barux wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: The Terminator T-1000 wrote: Everytime there is an update something new gets broken. It is so predictable. Yes, this usually applies to every coding project in companies not even related to gaming. Coding is complicated. I know zilch about coding but I expect someone to be able to do something they are trained in. A lot of the problems are clearly simple mistakes, the bonuses not applying upon spawn for example. "Clearly simple mistakes"? Until you've learned to code, you have no right to say that. If you think you can consistently write completely bug-free code, you should go to school right now, because those skills will make you a very rich man. The fact is that writing bug-free code is impossible, even in projects that have had the combined work of thousands of people for dozens of years (see the Linux OS), and fixing one bug can produce ten others. Agreed but I think the reason why people, myself included, are so up in arms about it is because of the blatant lack of internal testing CCP does. Coding is tough and you're right writing bug free codes are near impossible, but again that is why internal testing and screenings are done, there is no excuse to release 1.8 with a bug like this in the code Oh I agree- I'm not upholding CCP as some standard of coding excellence, other than the negative example. But the idea that CCP should "omg just hot fix it already" is unfair and displays a remarkable amount of ignorance about the complexity of the task. It's like hiring a contractor to build an addition onto your house, and when they run into difficulties because of a shaky foundation and existing parts of the building not being up to code (Unreal Engine 3 lololol), you stamp your feet and rage at them. As for the excuse: they waited as long as possible to release the patch while still meeting their March promise, presumably trying to fix this bug and others. This is probably why they couldn't give a more concrete release date- fixing bugs like this is not a systematic process, really, it requires one coder or a team to have a crystallizing moment of clarity. Ultimately, they must have decided that it was better to get the content out than to delay the patch for bug fixes, and I think I agree with them. Nerdier than thou
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1514	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:24:00 - [32] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: An example: Republic Scout mk.0 having 3 equipment slots on release of 1.8 I ask myself "how did this happen?" While I understand that mistakes can happen especially when rushed but the only things that come to mind would be either Someone was going to be quitting and purposely messed things up. CCP gave some new guy the job of doing the LP store suits and the monkey had no idea what he was doing. Literally nothing else would be an alright excuse for this mess up. This isn't the only things that was broken. All of the broken Cal/Amarr scouts and light frames at launch. Messed up skill multipliers which included skills that weren't corrected until a few days ago. I feel like I've waited so long for racial parity that when it came out I chose to ignore all the blatant issues that came with it and instead was quite literally content, I don't thing being content about the game is what CCP aims for us to feel. Also, this game has one of the weakest color schemes I've seen in a Sci-Fi based game. No Gold for Gold suits (I did not forget CCP, dont you think for a minute I will forget your blatant false advertising) and nonsensical camo for everything else. The Sinwarden
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 2995	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:25:00 - [33] - Quote I said nothing about anything bring hotfixed, I was just ripping the fact that after over a year, its still the same silly sht lol, how long does one need seriously lol. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. Bossing it in my reaper lol.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1514	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:26:00 - [34] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Oh I agree- I'm not upholding CCP as some standard of coding excellence, other than the negative example. But the idea that CCP should "omg just hot fix it already" is unfair and displays a remarkable amount of ignorance about the complexity of the task. It's like hiring a contractor to build an addition onto your house, and when they run into difficulties because of a shaky foundation and existing parts of the building not being up to code (Unreal Engine 3 lololol), you stamp your feet and rage at them. As for the excuse: they waited as long as possible to release the patch while still meeting their March promise, presumably trying to fix this bug and others. This is probably why they couldn't give a more concrete release date- fixing bugs like this is not a systematic process, really, it requires one coder or a team to have a crystallizing moment of clarity. Ultimately, they must have decided that it was better to get the content out than to delay the patch for bug fixes, and I think I agree with them. I agree with this as well +1 But lets get those hotfixes rolling! The Sinwarden
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3314	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:27:00 - [35] - Quote They need to have an ISK event with 3x payouts to make up for the ISK lost. How much ISK do you think this has cost a Forge Gunner? EDIT: I should say that many believe that the FG problem comes from the skill not loading properly and screwing up the ROF. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior
Dimmu Borgir II The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 306	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:29:00 - [36] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: That causes us to spawn in without or bonuses and skills applying? Can someone explain this to me? Because frankly this is quite a game breaking bug/glitch, at least for me. When you spawn in on an EWAR fit Cal Scout and a TANK SNEAKS UP ON YOU Hahahah my favourite line was this one ^ But seriously CCP, sort this problem out, it's definitely THE most important thing to get right at the moment as it affects EVERYONE playing the game! Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 521	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:30:00 - [37] - Quote ive recently been learning to code. if you dont have a plan of excatly how each and every bit will fit together then later on down the line something will bite you on the arse. with all the changes in direction we are lucky this update works at all. things really could be much worse. i rember times on eve where i couldnt even logg in for hours afterwards because things went arse up. weve had it lucky this patch. oh man the horrible horrible bugs that happened in eve. if it bugs you that much stop playing till its fixed or use cheaper gear. what would be nice is if we heard something in an offical channel or fourm post it what was going on instead of the random dropping of stuff in threads. skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1709	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:34:00 - [38] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: They need to have an ISK event with 3x payouts to make up for the ISK lost. How much ISK do you think this has cost a Forge Gunner? EDIT: I should say that many believe that the FG problem comes from the skill not loading properly and screwing up the ROF. The thing is that the FG problem demonstrates just how complex this bug may really be on the back end. If it was as simple as the skill not applying at all, your FG would still fire, just with 25% slower charge time. Which would be terrible, too, but not as bad. The fact that it misfires shows that some parts of the game are applying the skill, and other parts are not. @Techmedmeds: Don't worry I'm not offended, I'm just sitting in a political theory lecture class giving no fucks (it's my last semester and I'm a Comp Sci major) and forum warrioring for kicks. edit: wait no way, fucks isn't censored? The ****? Nerdier than thou
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1516	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:34:00 - [39] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: ive recently been learning to code. if you dont have a plan of excatly how each and every bit will fit together then later on down the line something will bite you on the arse. with all the changes in direction we are lucky this update works at all. things really could be much worse. i rember times on eve where i couldnt even logg in for hours afterwards because things went arse up. weve had it lucky this patch. oh man the horrible horrible bugs that happened in eve. if it bugs you that much stop playing till its fixed or use cheaper gear. what would be nice is if we heard something in an offical channel or fourm post it what was going on instead of the random dropping of stuff in threads. But you know, with all thigns considered; I still love this game. What other game can you keep coming back to adapt to a new paradigm shift, new names rise and old names fall, the game is constantly changing and by waves not subtle shifts. When I look at EVE and read about how that developed I can accept Dust's flaws that much more. So yes CCP, I absolutely love your game. But understand that if we don't pressure you then we risk not letting Dust reach its full potential like EVE did. So ahem, back to the topic; "DOWN WITH CCP, BURN THEM! WITCH! WITCH! WITCH!" Hotfix please :D The Sinwarden
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1516	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:35:00 - [40] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: I'm just sitting in a political theory lecture class giving no fucks (it's my last semester and I'm a Comp Sci major) and forum warrioring for kicks. lol I'm in a 3 hour International Business class doing the exact same thing you are o7 Cept I still got a few more quarters to go The Sinwarden

TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 2997	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:37:00 - [41] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: They need to have an ISK event with 3x payouts to make up for the ISK lost. How much ISK do you think this has cost a Forge Gunner? EDIT: I should say that many believe that the FG problem comes from the skill not loading properly and screwing up the ROF. The thing is that the FG problem demonstrates just how complex this bug may really be on the back end. If it was as simple as the skill not applying at all, your FG would still fire, just with 25% slower charge time. Which would be terrible, too, but not as bad. The fact that it misfires shows that some parts of the game are applying the skill, and other parts are not. @Techmedmeds: Don't worry I'm not offended, I'm just sitting in a political theory lecture class giving no fucks (it's my last semester and I'm a Comp Sci major) and forum warrioring for kicks. edit: wait no way, fucks isn't censored? The ****? Lol cool, good luck with that. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. Bossing it in my reaper lol.
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 2997	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:40:00 - [42] - Quote Fucks for 5 more likes. CCP your forums are broken lol. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. Bossing it in my reaper lol.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1519	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:40:00 - [43] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: The Fucks? FTFY The Sinwarden
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1711	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:42:00 - [44] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Lol cool, good luck with that. Also I think I remember what a telefrag match is- it's from UT, right, for matches with only the teleporter "gun", I forget what it's called? Toss the transponder into someone, teleport inside their face to turn them into chunky ketchup? Nerdier than thou
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1519	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:44:00 - [45] - Quote Dimmu Borgir II wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: That causes us to spawn in without or bonuses and skills applying? Can someone explain this to me? Because frankly this is quite a game breaking bug/glitch, at least for me. When you spawn in on an EWAR fit Cal Scout and a TANK SNEAKS UP ON YOU Hahahah my favourite line was this one ^ But seriously CCP, sort this problem out, it's definitely THE most important thing to get right at the moment as it affects EVERYONE playing the game! It happens way too often for it to humor me anymore :( When this bug happens in conjunction to the Audio glitch where Tanks become silent (on top of constant looping of RR firing and ScR charging sounds) its absolutely silly that Tanks are not permanently marked by your passive scans on your minimap The Sinwarden
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 2997	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:46:00 - [46] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Lol cool, good luck with that. Also I think I remember what a telefrag match is- it's from UT, right, for matches with only the teleporter "gun", I forget what it's called? Toss the transponder into someone, teleport inside their face to turn them into chunky ketchup? Yes, when it was 16 v 16 low grav telefrag, it was insane. Against decent players it was a whole different level of play, you had to anticipate your opponents next spawn kind of thing, it was very intense and amazing to watch. The last time I tried unreal tournament, all the servers were hacked to fk, beyond playable for a vet. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. Bossing it in my reaper lol.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1077	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:47:00 - [47] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: I know zilch about coding A lot of the problems are clearly simple mistakes anyway coding is complicated and messy and very very confusing, as much as I'd love to work on games I have no idea how to code, especially something as complicated as eve or dust. Op I share your concerns but I'm willing to wait, best thing we can do to help is give them all the info we can. I'm still loving 1.8!
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1519	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:48:00 - [48] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: I know zilch about coding A lot of the problems are clearly simple mistakes anyway coding is complicated and messy and very very confusing, as much as I'd love to work on games I have no idea how to code, especially something as complicated as eve or dust. Op I share your concerns but I'm willing to wait, best thing we can do to help is give them all the info we can. I'm still loving 1.8! I love your positive attitude! :D Go CCP you can do it! but also ** you CCP! :D The Sinwarden**
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 635	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:48:00 - [49] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: The thing is that the FG problem demonstrates just how complex this bug may really be on the back end. If it was as simple as the skill not applying at all, your FG would still fire, just with 25% slower charge time. Which would be terrible, too, but not as bad. The fact that it misfires shows that some parts of the game are applying the skill, and other parts are not. It means that the battle server isn't calculating until after you're spawned in. Hence why the client knows exactly how much max HP you have. Or in terms of the forge gun it's the client thinks it can fire it faster than the server would allow. Mmmm Scout ak.0 Projects: TDBS \| SDETool
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 3001	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:49:00 - [50] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: I know zilch about coding A lot of the problems are clearly simple mistakes anyway coding is complicated and messy and very very confusing, as much as I'd love to work on games I have no idea how to code, especially something as complicated as eve or dust. Op I share your concerns but I'm willing to wait, best thing we can do to help is give them all the info we can. I'm still loving 1.8! I have a friend who codes and I have watched him do it, he doesn't find it hard and gets paid a decent amount for it. The code resembled the actual view we see in a way. It was pretty nifty. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. Bossing it in my reaper lol.

Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1712	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:50:00 - [51] - Quote In a way (other than the straight-up FG misfire), this bug is almost fun. It adds a sense of momentum- put your opponents on their heels, and you can deny them their skill bonuses for a little while. Nerdier than thou
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1520	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:50:00 - [52] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Awry Barux wrote: The thing is that the FG problem demonstrates just how complex this bug may really be on the back end. If it was as simple as the skill not applying at all, your FG would still fire, just with 25% slower charge time. Which would be terrible, too, but not as bad. The fact that it misfires shows that some parts of the game are applying the skill, and other parts are not. It means that the battle server isn't calculating until after you're spawned in. Hence why the client knows exactly how much max HP you have. Or in terms of the forge gun it's the client thinks it can fire it faster than the server would allow. So what makes it load in after a while, and why does it have to load in in the first place? Did it have to do this pre 1.8 as well and it just did it quicker and more efficiently or is it something new for 1.8? The Sinwarden
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 3001	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:51:00 - [53] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: I know zilch about coding A lot of the problems are clearly simple mistakes anyway coding is complicated and messy and very very confusing, as much as I'd love to work on games I have no idea how to code, especially something as complicated as eve or dust. Op I share your concerns but I'm willing to wait, best thing we can do to help is give them all the info we can. I'm still loving 1.8! I love your positive attitude! :D Go CCP you can do it! but also **** you CCP! :D As much as I btch about them, I do love dust and I'm pretty certain eve as well when I know how to play, I like the way eve isn't grind centric unless you want to do something and you skill up passively. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. Bossing it in my reaper lol.
Dimmu Borgir II The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 308	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:54:00 - [54] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Dimmu Borgir II wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: That causes us to spawn in without or bonuses and skills applying? Can someone explain this to me? Because frankly this is quite a game breaking bug/glitch, at least for me. When you spawn in on an EWAR fit Cal Scout and a TANK SNEAKS UP ON YOU Hahahah my favourite line was this one ^ But seriously CCP, sort this problem out, it's definitely THE most important thing to get right at the moment as it affects EVERYONE playing the game! It happens way too often for it to humor me anymore :( When this bug happens in conjunction to the Audio glitch where Tanks become silent (on top of constant looping of RR firing and ScR charging sounds) its absolutely silly that Tanks are not permanently marked by your passive scans on your minimap Yeah it's nuts, but tanks even used to duck under my active scans with an advanced scanner, even when they were almost right in front of me but just the other side of a small mound of dirt!!! I agree that tanks should always be on your minimap within 50 -60 metres, I mean who wouldn't know where it was just from the rumbling ground beneath your feet FGS! Blue is good, red is bad, orange you glad you're not red?
EverNub Da Short Buss RISE of LEGION 39	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:55:00 - [55] - Quote The main Issue is that CCP had to pretty much beg Sony to let them put Dust on Tranquility Server. Which Sony rarely does, seeing as most of there games are run out of PSN threw there servers. Also whenever you have a patch or an update you have to get Sony to approve the patch months in advance so any changes or errors they might have found later was pointless because it was already approved and you cant change it once Sony gives the thumbs up. All they can do it hotfix and hope we don't notice haha! What is the use of fighting if you haven't got a tolerable planet to fight over? 30 Mil SP Commando/Logi Grandmaster
Rusty Shallows 1461	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:56:00 - [56] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Fucks for 5 more likes. CCP your forums are broken lol. How's that? Edit: VICTORY! Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1712	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:56:00 - [57] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Awry Barux wrote: The thing is that the FG problem demonstrates just how complex this bug may really be on the back end. If it was as simple as the skill not applying at all, your FG would still fire, just with 25% slower charge time. Which would be terrible, too, but not as bad. The fact that it misfires shows that some parts of the game are applying the skill, and other parts are not. It means that the battle server isn't calculating until after you're spawned in. Hence why the client knows exactly how much max HP you have. Or in terms of the forge gun it's the client thinks it can fire it faster than the server would allow. Hmm I haz a theory. To be able to have equipment skill bonuses, since equipment is server-sided, CCP had to move all skill bonus application to server-side. However, due to pre-existing performance issues and having to frequently re-do skill application whenever someone spawns, as well individually applying skill bonuses to each of the dozens of pieces of equipment on the battlefield at any given moment, the skill applications get pushed down the stack in favor of hit detection, damage calculation, player position tracking, etc. This would explain the variable amount of time it takes before applying your skills. Nerdier than thou
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1262	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:01:00 - [58] - Quote This is all easily explained by 3 words. Made in China. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1520	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:02:00 - [59] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Awry Barux wrote: The thing is that the FG problem demonstrates just how complex this bug may really be on the back end. If it was as simple as the skill not applying at all, your FG would still fire, just with 25% slower charge time. Which would be terrible, too, but not as bad. The fact that it misfires shows that some parts of the game are applying the skill, and other parts are not. It means that the battle server isn't calculating until after you're spawned in. Hence why the client knows exactly how much max HP you have. Or in terms of the forge gun it's the client thinks it can fire it faster than the server would allow. Hmm I haz a theory. To be able to have equipment skill bonuses, since equipment is server-sided, CCP had to move all skill bonus application to server-side. However, due to pre-existing performance issues and having to frequently re-do skill application whenever someone spawns, as well individually applying skill bonuses to each of the dozens of pieces of equipment on the battlefield at any given moment, and then distributing info on these applications to every client, the skill applications get pushed down the stack in favor of hit detection, damage calculation, player position tracking, etc. This would explain the variable amount of time it takes before applying your skills. Edit: to be clear I'm totally spitballing without knowing anything about their actual code base, I'm just bored. Until a blue tag comes here to disprove your theory this is the currently accepted hypothesis! The Sinwarden
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1717	Posted - 2014.04.08 21:12:00 - [60] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: This is all easily explained by 3 words. Made in China. It's actually really not. China makes your precious iPhones, and everyone seems to think they're the most quality thing since machine-sliced bread. Nerdier than thou



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