DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Expanding The Arsenal With Uprising 1.8

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Indirect AV nerfs: damage mod nerf, grenades carried nerf (for flux and AV grenades). Was the grenade count reductipn necessary for anything other than locus? It takes 3 standard PACKED AV nades to take out a cheap LAV.

RR is likely still going to be comparatively OP compared to the AR since they got nerfed by very close values; CCP still doesn't get that range and DPS should be inversely proportional, high range weapons will always be preferable to low range ones if DPS is similar. I bet they'll make the same mistake with magsec.

Did you guys need to nerf the inferior AR variants by same percentage? this could have been an opportunity to make them better by comparison by not nerfing them as hard.

I am a SCR user, but WHY WHY WHY did the ARs get nerfed harder than the SCRs? ARs were the least viable of the racial rifles in 1.7.

A 2% difference from basic to complex is not worth it, there no reason to use complex damage mods anymore. Should have been 3%-5%-7%, this is just overkill.

Holy crap, they really are making the same mistake with the magsec. The magsec was shown to be OP compared to the SMG by players in the feedback thread of the previously released stats, and you nerf the SMG? Yes, guess you are repeating the same mistake.

magsec
355 DPS

SMG
350 DPS

Magsec has more range, AND more DPS?!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1720	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:39:00 - [121] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Kaughst wrote: Do you ever plan to increase the ammo capacity with the MD? The ammo count has always been subpar and the nano hive nerf still presents a problem to it in 1.8. That is the only thing that even pretends to keep the mass driver in check, come 1.8. Yeah and coming fron Kaughst that's rich. I support SP rollover.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 9778	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:43:00 - [122] - Quote Indirect AV nerfs: damage mod nerf, grenades carried nerf (for flux and AV grenades). Was the grenade count reductipn necessary for anything other than locus? It takes 3 standard PACKED AV nades to take out a cheap LAV. RR is likely still going to be comparatively OP compared to the AR since they got nerfed by very clase values; CCP still doesn't get that range and DPS should be inversely proportional, high range weapons will always be preferable to low range ones if DPS is similar. I bet they'll make the same mistake with magsec. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1360	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:43:00 - [123] - Quote Medic 1879 wrote: Pretty concerned about the grenade nerf to be honest, I am currently seeing allot of heavies driving round in LAV's jumping out a few feet away from people and trying to kill them then jumping back in and driving off. Currently with the speed of LAV's and how bad swarms are, swarms are no good at taking them out (if they bother to fit the LAV) forgeguns can still hurt LAV's, Plasma cannons, well I can hit LAV's with them but its not particularly effective. So at the moment the best form of defense against a LAV is AV nades and it currently takes 3 packed ADV to take out one unfitted MLT LAV in 1.8 you will only be able to carry 2. 1.8 is going to be lots of heavies driving round in LAV's as the only thing that can really worry them is a tank. No. Heavy HMG LAV combo sees scout or assault or logi in distance and assumes free killss Heavy jumps out of lav and HMG starts to..... BUT!!! Two minutes before an RE trap was set!! RE goes BOOM!! dead heavy and free lav after hacking. Thats what I am going to do so yeah come and try your murder taxi on my scout with two equiment slots for re and RE F45..lol!! Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3717	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:46:00 - [124] - Quote Nice Shotgun Damage buff. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 300	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:46:00 - [125] - Quote Great Dev Blog CCP , I am really looking forward to try them out and that this was the first blog is also great because we knew these weapons would come. That makes me very exited what will come in the other Dev Blogs, this is good news. hmmm wounded which of those weapons will work best on a scout with a cloak...
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 635	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:47:00 - [126] - Quote +1 fine rifles are getting a decent nerf. +1 dmg mods getting a decent nerf +1 less nade spam +1 new weapons -1 MagSec needs to be tweaked as already stated -1 please include all the stats of before/after of all weapons in one sheet....can be excel sheet we download like before -1 nerfing underutilized weapons like the breach/burst AR. They should have avoided or taken a lesser nerf bat hit. -0 no sure on dmg changes to shields vs armor. The fact that the pool for shield is so low, will "armor" based weapons still just cut through shields? -0 only locus nades needed the nerf to capacity IMO, but I am withholding judgement until I can test in practice. (contact nades only get one, not good; AV nades only two, not good; flux nades already underutilized) Im excited for 1.8 still. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 90	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:51:00 - [127] - Quote I'm disappointed that so many changes are occurring all at once. Historically, CCP has rarely gotten balance right especially when introducing new gear. Every patch has been 1 step forward, 2 or 3 steps back. Or in other words, fix one thing, break many others. A better approach would be to introduce smaller, less comprehensive changes, but to do so more often. So introduce the new weapons, then 2 - 3 weeks later use your new metrics to make changes to proficiency, then 2 - 3 weeks make changes to damage mods, then 2 - 3 weeks make changes to weapon damages, etc, etc, etc. Without a robust and comprehensive play-testing system, CCP will always struggle with implementing balance. I recognize that much of this is due to limitations with Sony and the Playstation IP (and the way too early release of the game). But using a more incremental approach could help mitigate this problem. I'm beginning to feel that DUST 514 on PS3 is nothing more than the alpha phase for DUST on PC or PS4. I wonder if my SP, ISK, gear, and Blueprints will transfer over to the next DUST iteration?
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1034	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:57:00 - [128] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Is AV going to be covered in a different dev blog? Had it confirmed from another source. No AV dev blog. All the infantry changes to TTK are going to be for nothing when it's going to to be tanks 514 MK III Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University CPM1 candidate
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 570	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:58:00 - [129] - Quote NOOOOOOOOOO MY COMBAT RIFLE! oh well I'll probably end up picking up an ion pistol anyway lol This is a signature. You're now reading it. You may now reply to my post.
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:04:00 - [130] - Quote What's with all this flip-flopping of the MD!? It gets nerfed and buffed and nerfed and then buffed again!! It's ridiculous... i think it was fine the way it was during 1.7 and with the whole Proficiency change that alone would compensate for any damage it lacked -_- Also, you're increasing the damage of the Laser Rifle at SHORTER ranges?? I may need some elaboration here but from what it sounds like: Laser Rifles will be able to compete in CQC, which makes absolutely no sense because they are meant to be ranged weapons. One shouldn't be stupid enough to even bring a LR to a CQC gun fight and get away with it -_- Im not sure how I feel about all the damage nerfs. If you just nerfed the mods AND proficiency that would've sufficed in my opinion. Don't really think nerfing the weapons themselves was necessary. Oh and minor gripe: When is the AR going to be renamed the Plasma Rifle?? It's a Plasma weapon so it should be named as such. Who over there is so lazy that they can't simply rename the damn thing in a couple easy keystrokes. All in all, I pray this update is the true saving grace we've been looking for. i'm tired of flip-flops and FoTM bullcrap.

Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven 521	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:04:00 - [131] - Quote Respec? I'm going tanks fuggit Pro-fit Prophet "Gimme yo lunch money"
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 595	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:05:00 - [132] - Quote Thanks for the blog! It's nice to get info about 1.8. Seriously, though, CCP, why the nerfs on the AR? Shouldn't a Gallente weapon be deadly if you can get in range to use one? Literally, the only thing the AR had going for it was tremendous damage potential. We can see from the state of the current meta that it is far out-classed by anything that puts out comparable damage with longer range. Why wouldn't it? Why wouldn't we use weapons that have the same-or-slightly-less dps but FAR longer range? I agree with the TTK changes--and they'll be healthy for the game--but I have to strongly disagree with the AR nerfs. There's nothing going for it as it is, in its current, pre-nerf version. By nerfing it at all, you're only going to further marginalize its use more. The "idea" of the AR (and the Gallente philosophy) is to have extreme damage up close. The caveat there is you have to get up close to use it. That's the "hidden balance" there. If you can't get in range, the weapon's performance is useless. But sticking it with a damage nerf--on top of the nerf to damage mods--is going to kill it. A larger clip doesn't matter when your weapon is out-classed and out-ranged. The other issue is the break down of the proficiency skills as they relate to bonus damage. Again, the Gallente AR gets a bonus to shield damage, but this damage is LARGELY wasted, since shield users' fighting styles are balanced around long range weapons (Minmatar CR and Caldari RR). AR weaker overall + a damage proficiency bonus on a short range weapon that applies to long-range-styled players. Doesn't make any sense. Then, the CR and RR get bonuses to armor damage. This doesn't make any sense, either. CR and RR are longer range weapons. While this makes sense from a lore perspective, it hardly makes sense with respect to gameplay. Armor users are inherently slower (due to the fitting penalties of armor), and yet the weapons that get bonus damage to this tanking style are longer range. How is an armor user supposed to get close in a reasonable amount of time in order to use his short range weapon when he's just going to be killed from a distance by a long range weapon with bonus damage to armor? The dev blog is welcome, and it's nice to see some changes coming with 1.8. Nerfing the AR (really, at all) and damage proficiency bonuses that don't make sense aren't. I hope this blog wasn't released when numbers are already locked in, because there's some serious issues with them. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
Weznof Nalek What The French Red Whines 35	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:07:00 - [133] - Quote Where is the nerf of HMG weapon?
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1720	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:16:00 - [134] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: +1 fine rifles are getting a decent nerf. +1 dmg mods getting a decent nerf +1 less nade spam +1 new weapons -1 MagSec needs to be tweaked as already stated -1 please include all the stats of before/after of all weapons in one sheet....can be excel sheet we download like before -1 nerfing underutilized weapons like the breach/burst AR. They should have avoided or taken a lesser nerf bat hit. -0 no sure on dmg changes to shields vs armor. The fact that the pool for shield is so low, will "armor" based weapons still just cut through shields? -0 only locus nades needed the nerf to capacity IMO, but I am withholding judgement until I can test in practice. (contact nades only get one, not good; AV nades only two, not good; flux nades already underutilized) Im excited for 1.8 still. +1 IgnitableAura. This is exactly my reaction to this balancing pass also. Honestly surprised the Gallente AR was nerfed more than the SCR. And really hate to see that splash buff to MD's - a step backwards imo. Also, Kagehoshi is dead-on target in his assesment that this is an AV nerf. Imo only Forge and RE's/Proxies are worth running at this point. Concerns aside, this balancing pass is more sophisticated and thoughful than what we've had in the past, and what we do after this will genuinely be 'tweaking'. This was always the argument for completeing the racial lineups asap - don't stop now CCP! I support SP rollover.
jackjack1990 GalacticGuardians 514 4	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:20:00 - [135] - Quote I know that this isn't the placebut can somebody link me to the suit changesthank you and from what I can read I'm going to love this patch
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1721	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:22:00 - [136] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Indirect AV nerfs: damage mod nerf, grenades carried nerf (for flux and AV grenades). Was the grenade count reductipn necessary for anything other than locus? It takes 3 standard PACKED AV nades to take out a cheap LAV. RR is likely still going to be comparatively OP compared to the AR since they got nerfed by very close values; CCP still doesn't get that range and DPS should be inversely proportional, high range weapons will always be preferable to low range ones if DPS is similar. I bet they'll make the same mistake with magsec. Did you guys need to nerf the inferior AR variants by same percentage? this could have been an opportunity to make them better by comparison by not nerfing them as hard. I am a SCR user, but WHY WHY WHY did the ARs get nerfed harder than the SCRs? ARs were the least viable of the racial rifles in 1.7. A 2% difference from basic to complex is not worth it, there no reason to use complex damage mods anymore. Should have been 3%-5%-7%, this is just overkill. Holy crap, they really are making the same mistake with the magsec. The magsec was shown to be OP compared to the SMG by players in the feedback thread of the previously released stats, and you nerf the SMG? Yes, guess you are repeating the same mistake. magsec 355 DPS SMG 350 DPS Magsec has more range, AND more DPS?! +1 Kage. Agreed on all points. Another significant balancing pass will be required if this is relesed as stated. On the other hand, parts of the balancing and TTK adjustment are exactly what we needed. Two steps forward, one step back. I support SP rollover.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 169	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:23:00 - [137] - Quote Obodiah Garro wrote: Heavies wouldnt be that bad if CCP got rid of their ability to hot drop using LAV. Make Heavies able to only ride in the rear bay or shotgun. How a heavy can instatranslocate from LAV is more than irrating, its illogical and stupid, completely taking away their mobility penalty. Have said this time and again and placed it in features section when it had it old name. - Not a word. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1721	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:25:00 - [138] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Is AV going to be covered in a different dev blog? Had it confirmed from another source. No AV dev blog. All the infantry changes to TTK are going to be for nothing when it's going to to be tanks 514 MK III It boggles the mind they didn't address this. I'll wait to see the patch notes but.... I support SP rollover.
SILVERBACK 02 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 491	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:27:00 - [139] - Quote InsidiousN wrote: CCP you have to nerf HMGs at a similar rate to rifles or else 1.8 will continue to be Tank Spam 514, and now HMG Spam 514! How can you nerf other weapons but not the one with the lowest TTK?! stfu noob level 0 forum warrior weapon of choice: MARK V PYTHON. -STB sky marshall
SILVERBACK 02 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 491	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:28:00 - [140] - Quote Weznof Nalek wrote: Where is the nerf of HMG weapon? stfu noob level 0 forum warrior weapon of choice: MARK V PYTHON. -STB sky marshall

ads alt DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 42	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:31:00 - [141] - Quote ads alt wrote: ads alt wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: AR nerf makes it inferior to Magsec in nearly every way. Calling it now. MAGSEC 514 Less fire rate, less damage to shields, whatever you say man... When you give a duster a dev blog, they'll want more, when they'll want more, they develop a taste for developer blood, when they develop a taste for developer blood, they spam the forums, when they spam the forums, the moderators come in, when the moderators fail, all the moderators lock every topic! And the forums are destroyed....and that's why the devs waited this long.
RydogV Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 668	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:37:00 - [142] - Quote ads alt wrote: ads alt wrote: ads alt wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: AR nerf makes it inferior to Magsec in nearly every way. Calling it now. MAGSEC 514 Less fire rate, less damage to shields, whatever you say man... When you give a duster a dev blog, they'll want more, when they'll want more, they develop a taste for developer blood, when they develop a taste for developer blood, they spam the forums, when they spam the forums, the moderators come in, when the moderators fail, all the moderators lock every topic! And the forums are destroyed....and that's why the devs waited this long. Dude. Why do you keep quoting yourself quoting yourself? Seen a few of these in this thread.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 387	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:46:00 - [143] - Quote Lol, reduced damage eh? So the Combat rifle, at base, will still do 540 DPS, this is more than the assault rifle used to do by nearly 100 DPS, and this is after a nerf. Yeah, right.
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 172	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:47:00 - [144] - Quote jackjack1990 wrote: I know that this isn't the placebut can somebody link me to the suit changesthank you and from what I can read I'm going to love this patch Here ya' go. :) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370 Supporting Kevall Longstride, CEO of DUST University, for CPM1
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 173	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:49:00 - [145] - Quote Did you really nerf the tactic assault riffle and burst AR? Those weapons are worthless!!!dont you have the data to see it?
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone 8	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:49:00 - [146] - Quote A little worried the new side arms are to OP.
jackjack1990 GalacticGuardians 514 5	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:50:00 - [147] - Quote Celus Ivara wrote: jackjack1990 wrote: I know that this isn't the placebut can somebody link me to the suit changesthank you and from what I can read I'm going to love this patch Here ya' go. :) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136370 thank you very much
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 3005	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:01:00 - [148] - Quote Here we go again, catering to the nubs that are clueless how this game is played. I am in full agreement with the overall weapon damage nerf, which increases TTK in and of itself, marginally, where it would be close to 'balanced' then comes the nerf bat.. no mention of anything with vehicles, or the poor swarm launcher. ALL CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE IN REGARD TO BOTH VEHICLES AND INFANTRY!!!! I just don't get it. Nerf nade count.. across the board. AV nades were already nerfed into 'joke' status in 1.7. yes core locus reduced by 1.. all for it flux reduction? ok I can buy that, but AV nades which throwing 3 does little to nothing already, now down to 2? damage mod nerf... with AV this just makes the current tankspam issue EVEN WORSE right now, you cant 1 shot a militia LAV with a full dmg forge fit. now u probably wont be able to 2-shot it RIGHT NOW, forges vs vehicles (aside from the MLT LAV crap) is damn near spot on. that is WITH full damage. good tankers provide difficult kills, crap tankers still get eradicated easily. Good dropship pilots are also a challenge. It just makes little sense when over and over we see these 'adjustments' go off the deep end every single time. making all these changes without making changes to vehicles will once again cause greater imbalance and while I am also for giving the MD a buff (cause it was nerfed into the ground before) the proposed changes are once again going to revert us back to 1.2-1.3 roof camping MD spam. I just wish CCP would actually think of the big picture when making changes. THIS IS NOT EVE. THIS IS NOT SPREADSHEET HEAVEN. play the damn game, observe competitive matches, don't look solely at spreadsheets and change numbers based on 'data' that is undoubtedly pulled from pubs and maybe(if we're lucky) FW and PC, but everything is lumped together, and does not paint an accurate picture of the changes that need to be made. nerfing damage mods just multiplies TTK. nerfing proficiency, especially in regard to AV, will cause even greater imbalance between infantry and vehicles. No mention of buffing the completely broken swarms? just remove them from the game and refund all the players that skilled into it then. seriously new weapons? cool. We'll revisit those after they get some exposure and have the same discussion for the next patch. never know til they are on the field. the changes in proficiency and whatnot, you should really make shield dmg mods and armor dmg mods. shield high slots armor low slots. force ppl to choose. OR... remove damage mods altogether and make this game into a huge nerf gun game (nerf as in the sponge padded weapons you buy your kids, so no one ever gets hurt) every single time.. 1 step forward, 3 steps back. at this rate we should be back in chromosome in no time and maybe things will magically be decent again You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity - Nietzche
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1041	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:03:00 - [149] - Quote At least with the proficiency and DM changes we can be pretty any Respec that happens will include the Weapons branch of the skill tree. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University CPM1 candidate
Kaius Coriolanus Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 46	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:03:00 - [150] - Quote Good to see a Dev blog, thanks CCP 0/



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