DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Expanding The Arsenal With Uprising 1.8

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Indirect AV nerfs: damage mod nerf, grenades carried nerf (for flux and AV grenades). Was the grenade count reductipn necessary for anything other than locus? It takes 3 standard PACKED AV nades to take out a cheap LAV.

RR is likely still going to be comparatively OP compared to the AR since they got nerfed by very close values; CCP still doesn't get that range and DPS should be inversely proportional, high range weapons will always be preferable to low range ones if DPS is similar. I bet they'll make the same mistake with magsec.

Did you guys need to nerf the inferior AR variants by same percentage? this could have been an opportunity to make them better by comparison by not nerfing them as hard.

I am a SCR user, but WHY WHY WHY did the ARs get nerfed harder than the SCRs? ARs were the least viable of the racial rifles in 1.7.

A 2% difference from basic to complex is not worth it, there no reason to use complex damage mods anymore. Should have been 3%-5%-7%, this is just overkill.

Holy crap, they really are making the same mistake with the magsec. The magsec was shown to be OP compared to the SMG by players in the feedback thread of the previously released stats, and you nerf the SMG? Yes, guess you are repeating the same mistake.

magsec
355 DPS

SMG
350 DPS

Magsec has more range, AND more DPS?!


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1720	Posted - 2014.03.05 15:39:00 - [1] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Kaughst wrote: Do you ever plan to increase the ammo capacity with the MD? The ammo count has always been subpar and the nano hive nerf still presents a problem to it in 1.8. That is the only thing that even pretends to keep the mass driver in check, come 1.8. Yeah and coming fron Kaughst that's rich. I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1720	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:16:00 - [2] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: +1 fine rifles are getting a decent nerf. +1 dmg mods getting a decent nerf +1 less nade spam +1 new weapons -1 MagSec needs to be tweaked as already stated -1 please include all the stats of before/after of all weapons in one sheet....can be excel sheet we download like before -1 nerfing underutilized weapons like the breach/burst AR. They should have avoided or taken a lesser nerf bat hit. -0 no sure on dmg changes to shields vs armor. The fact that the pool for shield is so low, will "armor" based weapons still just cut through shields? -0 only locus nades needed the nerf to capacity IMO, but I am withholding judgement until I can test in practice. (contact nades only get one, not good; AV nades only two, not good; flux nades already underutilized) Im excited for 1.8 still. +1 IgnitableAura. This is exactly my reaction to this balancing pass also. Honestly surprised the Gallente AR was nerfed more than the SCR. And really hate to see that splash buff to MD's - a step backwards imo. Also, Kagehoshi is dead-on target in his assesment that this is an AV nerf. Imo only Forge and RE's/Proxies are worth running at this point. Concerns aside, this balancing pass is more sophisticated and thoughful than what we've had in the past, and what we do after this will genuinely be 'tweaking'. This was always the argument for completeing the racial lineups asap - don't stop now CCP! I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1721	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:22:00 - [3] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Indirect AV nerfs: damage mod nerf, grenades carried nerf (for flux and AV grenades). Was the grenade count reductipn necessary for anything other than locus? It takes 3 standard PACKED AV nades to take out a cheap LAV. RR is likely still going to be comparatively OP compared to the AR since they got nerfed by very close values; CCP still doesn't get that range and DPS should be inversely proportional, high range weapons will always be preferable to low range ones if DPS is similar. I bet they'll make the same mistake with magsec. Did you guys need to nerf the inferior AR variants by same percentage? this could have been an opportunity to make them better by comparison by not nerfing them as hard. I am a SCR user, but WHY WHY WHY did the ARs get nerfed harder than the SCRs? ARs were the least viable of the racial rifles in 1.7. A 2% difference from basic to complex is not worth it, there no reason to use complex damage mods anymore. Should have been 3%-5%-7%, this is just overkill. Holy crap, they really are making the same mistake with the magsec. The magsec was shown to be OP compared to the SMG by players in the feedback thread of the previously released stats, and you nerf the SMG? Yes, guess you are repeating the same mistake. magsec 355 DPS SMG 350 DPS Magsec has more range, AND more DPS?! +1 Kage. Agreed on all points. Another significant balancing pass will be required if this is relesed as stated. On the other hand, parts of the balancing and TTK adjustment are exactly what we needed. Two steps forward, one step back. I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1721	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:25:00 - [4] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Is AV going to be covered in a different dev blog? Had it confirmed from another source. No AV dev blog. All the infantry changes to TTK are going to be for nothing when it's going to to be tanks 514 MK III It boggles the mind they didn't address this. I'll wait to see the patch notes but.... I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1724	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:16:00 - [5] - Quote +1 Cubs. In agreement on everything. A lot of peeps whose opinions i respect and who know the game inside & out are saying the same things here. The really soul-crushing thing for me is that it looks like some things haven't changed under Rouge's leadership. I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1729	Posted - 2014.03.06 02:06:00 - [6] - Quote Focusing on the grenade changes. All are agreed that explosive spam, primarily from locus grenades, the Mass Driver and Remote Explosives were having a negative impact on the gameplay experience in DUST. It is encouraging to see CCP attempting to address this issue in 1.8 via grenade changes but discouraging to see CCP exacerbating this issue in 1.8 via Mass Driver splash increase. I feel reducing the number of grenades carried is treating the symptom but not the cause. This grenade-spam problem is driven solely by grenade replenishment, the fact that mercs carry 3 grenades does not drive grenade spam. My feeling is that the vast majority of experienced mercs who have an issue with 'nade spamming have no issue with the current 3-nade capacity. By that reasoning, the drivers of grenade spam are then supply depots and nanohives. Because supply depots are fixed they are not a big driver of grenade spam, and mercs sticking close to a depot are vulnerable. Furthermore, any merc making trips back to a depot for grenade resupply is putting themselves at risk, so any spamming comes at a price. That leaves Nanohives. It would be a mistake to nerf nanohives to ameliorate nadespam. By directly nerfing nanohives we affect several other other systems(armor, ammo) that are not unbalanced. Better to address the grenade replenishment mechanic directly. We could completely eliminate replen from hives, some have called for it, including myself, but we can prolly do better. TL;DR: Reduce the rate of grenade replenishment from nanohives to 1 grenade replenished per 15 seconds, and make it independent of number of hives - Nadespam solved without nerfing hives. I support SP rollover.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1733	Posted - 2014.03.06 14:26:00 - [7] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Focusing on the grenade changes. ... snip ... That leaves Nanohives. It would be a mistake to nerf nanohives to ameliorate nadespam. By directly nerfing nanohives we affect several other other systems(armor, ammo) that are not unbalanced. Better to address the grenade replenishment mechanic directly. We could completely eliminate replen from hives, some have called for it, including myself, but we can prolly do better You seem to have missed the equally huge Nerf coming up for Hives, indeed equipment of many types have been targeted by Nerf Hammer of Doom. To the point of carrying some of the equipment might well be a waste of SP. There will only be one good Nano Hive in the game. Highest Proto, don't recall if it is AUR as well. I didn't miss it. My arguement is implying that if nerfing grenades was any part of CCP's reasoning for the nanohive nerf then their reasoning is faulty on that specific issue. They may have other reasons for the nanohive nerf. But slowing down grenade replenishment would help indirectly by limiting how quickly nade replen sucks hives dry. That's not part of my argument, tho, just a bonus. I support SP rollover.