DUST Search - Heavy QQ

Asher Night wrote:

Vitharr Foebane wrote:

Asher Night wrote:

I agree. It is not that I want to kill heavies everytime I meet them but it's clear that when a heavy wipes me out with an HMG or Rifle after I get them to within a centimeter of death, it isn't always talent. There are only a few ways to kill a heavy if you aren't a heavy, and they aren't talent required. It's just chance.

What makes it worse is the HMG has so much range for the damage it does. I keep seeing heavies in LAVs drive a good bit past me, jump out, and open fire from their HMG at 30+ meters away. They have so much HP and ammo that they can kill you from such a distance before you can take them out. Plus if they get low on HP, they just jump in their LAVs and drive away like scrubs.

The HMG needs a range nerf, and their turn speed needs to be just a bit lower. Yeah, I said it.

you are aware that the optimal for a HMG is 20 meters right? and yes there needs to be an exit/entrance animation for vehicles and yes the turn speed could be a bit slower

I'm fine with 20m but I definitely got wiped out from 32 meters last night by some Heavy driving around in a LAV. I was in an abandoned part of the map so I doubt someone else was shooting at me. As it stands now the only drawback to being a heavy is you move slower, but with LAVs it doesn't even matter. If you play the role of point defense, it matters even less.

I want heavies in the game, I want them to ne a challenge, but right now they are challenging in the way that a baby fighting Mike Tyson is challenging.

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Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1840	Posted - 2014.03.01 21:40:00 - [31] - Quote Asher Night wrote: J0hlss0n wrote: Asher Night wrote: The HMG needs a range nerf..... So, someone used the word "HMG" and "nerf" in the same sentence... wow... so we've gone from crying about tanks and op weapons to all of a sudden cry over heavies... and 1,8 hasn't even launched yet but people are going crazy over that "heavies will be op".... this community... Don't quote me if you're going to conveniently cut out everything so you can make an asinine, strawman argument. You're defending the HMG - a high ammo, high damage weapon - being able to kill someone from 30+ meters away, very quickly. You're the one being crazy. No one is even talking about 1.8 in this topic yet. You brought up a topic no one mentioned and then bitched about people complaining about it. You literally sound like an insane old person with vertigo. High Ammo, High ROF. It literally does the least damage in the game. Its damage drops off after 30 meters, if the dispersion allows it to be used effectively the far off Requires you to use the slowest suit in the game to use it Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Arkest Anzari Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.03.01 21:45:00 - [32] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Lot's of post moaning on heavies and to be fair It has been pretty crap getting Heavy spammed in CQC I don't mind the difficulty of taking on a heavy, it's fun The issue is when I flank and attack him, using anything other than RE is suicide Because the buff to Heavy turn speed was completely unnecessary, they are Heavy! Heavys can turn around way to fast atm and it makes it too easy for AR use.. The HMG accuracy would actually benefit from it being slower so.... What do you think ? That makes sense. They are very slow already, however. Maybe it should be related to their weapon. Like heavy weapons having a penalty to turn speed. Having 1100+ ehp should be fine according to those FotM spamming PC-farming protoscrubs (or at the very least, they should be the last people to whine about it), so turn speed should be fine when they have a light weapon or sidearm equipped.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 991	Posted - 2014.03.01 21:45:00 - [33] - Quote lol the commando suit doesnt count as a true heavy. so HMG is OP? it was a giant BB gun in the previous build and now it got back to what it should be, why would that be OP? isnt the HMG meant to clear a room full of reds and scare them shitless? previous build i could storm a storm a room full of reds and be lucky enough to kill one red due to the DMG the HMG was dealing (think it was like 14dmg at standard and 17dmg at proto?) if we're going to compare weapons being OP i could say the same for the CR, standard CR took away my 600 shields from 80m in 2 seconds now thats just wrong on so many levels. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
Incin3rate New Age Empire. 51	Posted - 2014.03.01 21:45:00 - [34] - Quote Asher Night wrote: J0hlss0n wrote: Asher Night wrote: ..... ...so, you've played heavy much? Been using the HMG for a few builds back? Yes, I am defending the HMG, because I've been using it since closed beta and I've seen and experienced the different stages of it, and its just now that its has found its place. That's the truth, and if you still want to win a close combat battle with a heavy/hmg, then its up to you to change your playstyle and not start calling a weapon thats finally changed into something useful a op weapon and point towards a nerf. You are supposed to get torn apart if you face a heavy straight on with a assault rifle or other range effective weapons, just as a heavy is supposed to loose pretty easy out in the open... and dont tell me you are being killed easilly by a heavy out in the open because... well... The HMG/Heavy is supposed to be great in close combat, what else is it for? And try a heavy out in the open, and get torn apart by CR/RR/etc with ease. Lol, are you deaf or just dumb? Do you not know how far 30 meters is? That isn't close quarters. I didn't face a heavy straight on. He rolled up in a LAV, and jumped out. The entire time I was running. How you interpret that as fighting a heavy straight on perplexes me. Whats not broken? Lets start there.
Vesperz D3M3NT3D M1NDZ The Umbra Combine 50	Posted - 2014.03.01 21:52:00 - [35] - Quote This community, I swear. Heavies are finally in their spot, hmgs are finally viable and chew **** up - yet screams of "that lav scrub tactic is dumb" how else are they going to get around? "I shouldnt die at 30 meters to a hmg" would you rather die at 82 meters if he was carrying a rail? I run scout, I have no trouble with heavies, if I die its because of a mistake I made or not checking my surroundings first. Live by honor, kill by stealth.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1809	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:04:00 - [36] - Quote Asher Night wrote: I didn't face a heavy straight on. He rolled up in a LAV, and jumped out. The entire time I was running. How you interpret that as fighting a heavy straight on perplexes me. Ah. Okay. Now I know what this is about... YouGÇÖre whining about the HMG, but what you really want is the Battle Segway nerfed. Which is reasonable. Buff AV back to pre-1.7 levels and weGÇÖll solve this and whole host of other problems. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Vordred Knight Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 19	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:33:00 - [37] - Quote my breach shot does well against most heavies ashes to ashes dust to dust we are nothing but dust and to dust you shall return - Father Alexander Anderson
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2680	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:41:00 - [38] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Lot's of post moaning on heavies and to be fair It has been pretty crap getting Heavy spammed in CQC I don't mind the difficulty of taking on a heavy, it's fun The issue is when I flank and attack him, using anything other than RE is suicide Because the buff to Heavy turn speed was completely unnecessary, they are Heavy! Heavys can turn around way to fast atm and it makes it too easy for AR use.. The HMG accuracy would actually benefit from it being slower so.... What do you think ? They buffed Heavy Suit turn speed. This only effects the Heavy when using light weapons. They did not change the HMG turn speed. It is still slower than a shotgun. The HMG on hip fire still canGÇÖt keep up with a scout and some assault suits orbiting at less than 5m. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2680	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:44:00 - [39] - Quote Mayor Redshield wrote: I tried to sneak up on a lone heavy, while in my profile dampened assault fit. I got about two shots on him with a TacAR before he turned around, got me with a couple of shots from a scrambler rifle and then he switched to a shotgun to finish me. Now the turn speed buff does account for that. Perhaps making the base turn speed of the suit a bit slower would be a way of dealing with Heavies using light weapons, but I would find it annoying when using my sidearm. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 1195	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:48:00 - [40] - Quote Lol so we just gonna argue about how heavies have been UP for so long that they deserve to not be critically looked at? Oh and what of the heavy who uses the OP rifles and their eHP against us? Oh and those guys who hop out of LAVs. But sure let's ***** about how Heavies are "perfect" right now. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2680	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:51:00 - [41] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: No complaints on their damage or endurance but the Heavy turn speed is really unfair on the scout role that should be our advantage not the guys with over 1000HP A Scout can obit an HMG Heavy at 5m faster than the HMG Heavy can turn with Hip fire. The turn speed buff to the suit did not effect the turn speed of the HMG. To kill a good Scout I have to switch to my sidearm. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2680	Posted - 2014.03.01 22:54:00 - [42] - Quote Asher Night wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Asher Night wrote: I agree. It is not that I want to kill heavies everytime I meet them but it's clear that when a heavy wipes me out with an HMG or Rifle after I get them to within a centimeter of death, it isn't always talent. There are only a few ways to kill a heavy if you aren't a heavy, and they aren't talent required. It's just chance. What makes it worse is the HMG has so much range for the damage it does. I keep seeing heavies in LAVs drive a good bit past me, jump out, and open fire from their HMG at 30+ meters away. They have so much HP and ammo that they can kill you from such a distance before you can take them out. Plus if they get low on HP, they just jump in their LAVs and drive away like scrubs. The HMG needs a range nerf, and their turn speed needs to be just a bit lower. Yeah, I said it. you are aware that the optimal for a HMG is 20 meters right? and yes there needs to be an exit/entrance animation for vehicles and yes the turn speed could be a bit slower I'm fine with 20m but I definitely got wiped out from 32 meters last night by some Heavy driving around in a LAV. I was in an abandoned part of the map so I doubt someone else was shooting at me. As it stands now the only drawback to being a heavy is you move slower, but with LAVs it doesn't even matter. If you play the role of point defense, it matters even less. I want heavies in the game, I want them to ne a challenge, but right now they are challenging in the way that a baby fighting Mike Tyson is challenging. Was he perhaps using an Assault HMG? The Assault HMG is closer to the Assault Rifle in Damage and Rang. Meaning it does less damage, but has more range. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2680	Posted - 2014.03.01 23:02:00 - [43] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Asher Night wrote: J0hlss0n wrote: Asher Night wrote: The HMG needs a range nerf..... So, someone used the word "HMG" and "nerf" in the same sentence... wow... so we've gone from crying about tanks and op weapons to all of a sudden cry over heavies... and 1,8 hasn't even launched yet but people are going crazy over that "heavies will be op".... this community... Don't quote me if you're going to conveniently cut out everything so you can make an asinine, strawman argument. You're defending the HMG - a high ammo, high damage weapon - being able to kill someone from 30+ meters away, very quickly. You're the one being crazy. No one is even talking about 1.8 in this topic yet. You brought up a topic no one mentioned and then bitched about people complaining about it. You literally sound like an insane old person with vertigo. Alright a full quote just for you :3 The ONLY way a hmg will kill at anything farther then 20 meteres is: A) you are crouched thus exposing you to their in optimal gunfire while you are out of yours B) they are a scout at 20+ meters A can be possible but you will usually die first at 30 meters you would need both A and B and if they are using anything but a shot gun you WILL die first Or C) it is an Assault HMG and sacrifices high CQC damage in order to get a bit more range. They are used sometimes on more open maps. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2680	Posted - 2014.03.01 23:20:00 - [44] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: Lol so we just gonna argue about how heavies have been UP for so long that they deserve to not be critically looked at? Oh and what of the heavy who uses the OP rifles and their eHP against us? Oh and those guys who hop out of LAVs. But sure let's ***** about how Heavies are "perfect" right now. Stop being so bias and check yourselves. Was in support for heavy balance back before they got their sets of buff and I'm still in favor of balance :I. Well there is a lot of misinformation going around. - HMG Heavies turn too fast because a Heavy with a Scrambler rifle tuned and killed a guy. - HMGGÇÖs have too much range because someone was killed with an Assault HMG at 30m. (Assault HMGGÇÖs are only good at 30m. They sort of suck in CQC.) - Then there are scouts saying that they have no chance in CQC with a heavy, when I know dam well that most Scouts and some Assaults can orbit me at close range faster than I can turn. Is this guy brick tanking his Scout suit or something? It is like saying Medium frame suits are OP because one killed me at 5 m with a Shotgun and another killed me at 60 m with a Rail Rifle. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 241	Posted - 2014.03.01 23:36:00 - [45] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: No complaints on their damage or endurance but the Heavy turn speed is really unfair on the scout role that should be our advantage not the guys with over 1000HP No. This idea sucks, and there is no good reason for it. The nerf to heavy turn speed It was at least 50% of the reason playing heavy sucked for as long as it did after coming out of beta (the other 50% was HMG bullet dispersion). It was like this before, and there was no good reason for it. Just cause I'm a fat bastard doesn't mean I shouldn't be be able to freakin' pivot like the rest of you. Besides, things are gonna get a hell of a lot worse for heavies, with cloaks just around the corner -- you're already gaining a hell of an advantage. Your gonna be almost invisible, and I'm not gonna be able to turn quick enough to defend myself? No. Funkmaster Whale wrote: Limiting turn speed is a silly way to balance things. It doesn't really fix the issue and only makes players even more frustrated with the already abysmal controls in this game. What would be better I think is if Heavies were less vulnerable at the front and more vulnerable at the back. Meaning a Shotgun to the back against a Heavy would be lethal, while an attack to their front would do far less. This would give Heavies a decent offensive role as far as advancing and pushing the line, but the drawback would be increased vulnerability to being flanked. I'd actually be down for this, but I'd like to see how cloaks play out first. You know they are gonna be OP as ***, because everything CCP releases for the first time is OP (except the plasma cannon, for whatever reason). A good scout can already put me down in 2-3 shotgun blasts, and I foresee this getting worse when cloaking becomes available. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin*, Fatsuit
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2681	Posted - 2014.03.01 23:41:00 - [46] - Quote Now, one thing that has not been mentioned in this thread, but does make HMG heavies very frustrating to deal with is the Sloth effect. The Sloth effect was added when we had poor hit detection. When you get hit by a bullet it slows you down. When you get hit by a weapon with a high rate of fire such as an HMG, Combat Rifle, or SMG it slows you down to about 50% of walking speed. So when you are being hit you canGÇÖt get to cover because you are slowed down. The Sloth effect needs to be removed from the game, or toned down. It is one of the most frustrating mechanics in the game! The effect has been there for a long time, but before hit detection was fixed you usually were not getting hit by enough bullets to get slowed down too much. It was more noticeable after hit detection was fixed. It became unbearably annoying when the Combat Rifle was added to the game and the HMG was fixed. If you have not noticed it, pay attention to how fast you move when you are getting hit. I fully support removing the Sloth effect. It is not needed anymore and is extremely frustrating. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Toby Flenderson research lab 316	Posted - 2014.03.02 00:08:00 - [47] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: Lot's of post moaning on heavies and to be fair It has been pretty crap getting Heavy spammed in CQC I don't mind the difficulty of taking on a heavy, it's fun The issue is when I flank and attack him, using anything other than RE is suicide Because the buff to Heavy turn speed was completely unnecessary, they are Heavy! Heavys can turn around way to fast atm and it makes it too easy for AR use.. The HMG accuracy would actually benefit from it being slower so.... What do you think ? Agreed. I'm running BPO sentinel with a MLT level HMG and it's way to easy to kill people trying to sneak up on me. If you get flanked as a heavy then you should probably go down in general.
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 35	Posted - 2014.03.02 00:37:00 - [48] - Quote Mayor Redshield wrote: I tried to sneak up on a lone heavy, while in my profile dampened assault fit. I got about two shots on him with a TacAR before he turned around, got me with a couple of shots from a scrambler rifle and then he switched to a shotgun to finish me. Lol That was probably me in my Commando suit, I usually shoot people with my RR and run up to them with my shotgun. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4770	Posted - 2014.03.02 01:38:00 - [49] - Quote Hynox Xitio wrote: Heavies haven't been good since late Chromosome, everybody shut up and accept god's gift. that's the problem right there, people got used to pooping on heavies all day everyday. Now in CQC they getting raped, "QQ HEAVIES TURN TO QUICK!!!" lol, git gud. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1812	Posted - 2014.03.02 05:39:00 - [50] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: that's the problem right there, people got used to pooping on heavies all day everyday. Now in CQC they getting raped, "QQ HEAVIES TURN TO QUICK!!!" lol, git gud. It's just funny to me that literally nothing has changed about heavies in months. A month ago we'd get these very same medium-suit/rifle players come out of the woodwork to say "STFU, HMG IS FINE." I'd get a little tear in my eye. Then CCP does an event that encourages people to don a fatsuit, and now we're OP. Is OPness just a function of how often people see something? I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]

xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 133	Posted - 2014.03.02 09:25:00 - [51] - Quote Oh the tears soon you will say the shotgun is OP as well then everyone will just be using a medium frame and a rifle. The HMG is pretty useless outside 20m where dispersion makes you miss at least half your shots, the heavy is practically blind when it comes to radar, has no equipment, can never be stealthy, has giant hitbox, is slow and is very weak to explosive spam. Not to mention most of the maps are wide open with little room for a heavy with an HMG to operate. I for one am not sure how you cannot kill a heavy in the back, shotgun him, knife him, or hell just shoot him with your rifle that has over or above a 1000dps if this option is displeasing use a rail from 80+m away. Spam grenades he won't be able to get away fast enough, shoot him in the head it seems to be about the size of a scout's torso. G0DS AM0NG MEN Director Preferred fit 1 complex damage mod, 2 mlt kin cats, basic HMG, flux grenade on a std sentinel
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 843	Posted - 2014.03.02 11:10:00 - [52] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: Oh the tears soon you will say the shotgun is OP as well then everyone will just be using a medium frame and a rifle. The HMG is pretty useless outside 20m where dispersion makes you miss at least half your shots, the heavy is practically blind when it comes to radar, has no equipment, can never be stealthy, has giant hitbox, is slow and is very weak to explosive spam. Not to mention most of the maps are wide open with little room for a heavy with an HMG to operate. I for one am not sure how you cannot kill a heavy in the back, shotgun him, knife him, or hell just shoot him with your rifle that has over or above a 1000dps if this option is displeasing use a rail from 80+m away. Spam grenades he won't be able to get away fast enough, shoot him in the head it seems to be about the size of a scout's torso. Your suggestion is use a Rail Rifle or Spam Grenades..... Really??? yeah lets make that the only way to take down a Heavy sarcasm Plasma Cannon performs its suppresion/area denial role perfectly Pity dust players only perform one role - slaying
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 843	Posted - 2014.03.02 11:14:00 - [53] - Quote I am not saying Heavys are OP..... I am pointing out that scouts run with 300HP to have the advantage of fast movement/turning Yet heavy's have over 1000HP, the hardest hitting weapon in CQC and a fast turn speed I don't even mind heavys that much, I posted this as I am seeing other post on the subject And wanted to propose something other than a 'nerf' Plasma Cannon performs its suppresion/area denial role perfectly Pity dust players only perform one role - slaying
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 206	Posted - 2014.03.02 11:53:00 - [54] - Quote I run adv sentinel, adv HMG. The turn speed is too fast. I miss too much. Slow me down so I can get more kills, thank you. DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1857	Posted - 2014.03.02 12:18:00 - [55] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: I am not saying Heavys are OP..... I am pointing out that scouts run with 300HP to have the advantage of fast movement/turning Yet heavy's have over 1000HP, the hardest hitting weapon in CQC and a fast turn speed I don't even mind heavys that much, I posted this as I am seeing other post on the subject And wanted to propose something other than a 'nerf' Scouts run with 300 EHP to have the advantage of fast movement and scan precision and dampening. I don't know how long you've been around, but heavies used to have a lower turn speed than other suits. Working as intended, IMO. Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2119	Posted - 2014.03.02 12:23:00 - [56] - Quote I say leave it as is, buff nova knives to OHK heavies, buff shotguns so tha breach can 2HK and voila balance. Now Scouts arn't gonna be a problem because they will spend their time expending cloaks on killing heavies. Heavies will be balanced because they have a hard counter. Assault < Heavy < Cloaked Scout Uncloaked Scout < Assault Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2119	Posted - 2014.03.02 12:25:00 - [57] - Quote Alternate Insano wrote: I run adv sentinel, adv HMG. The turn speed is too fast. I miss too much. Slow me down so I can get more kills, thank you. Turn down your sensitivity. 30-50 suits the HMG Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 313	Posted - 2014.03.02 13:24:00 - [58] - Quote lol no no no. just ban them from using light weapons. try killing a good strafer. lower turn speed anymore would be a bad thing. goddamit i wish the people in corp would stop making nerf boba's stuff threads. my name is boba and im a hoarder.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2119	Posted - 2014.03.02 13:32:00 - [59] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Now, one thing that has not been mentioned in this thread, but does make HMG heavies very frustrating to deal with is the Sloth effect. The Sloth effect was added when we had poor hit detection. When you get hit by a bullet it slows you down. When you get hit by a weapon with a high rate of fire such as an HMG, Combat Rifle, or SMG it slows you down to about 50% of walking speed. So when you are being hit you canGÇÖt get to cover because you are slowed down. The Sloth effect needs to be removed from the game, or toned down. It is one of the most frustrating mechanics in the game! The effect has been there for a long time, but before hit detection was fixed you usually were not getting hit by enough bullets to get slowed down too much. It was more noticeable after hit detection was fixed. It became unbearably annoying when the Combat Rifle was added to the game and the HMG was fixed. If you have not noticed it, pay attention to how fast you move when you are getting hit. I fully support removing the Sloth effect. It is not needed anymore and is extremely frustrating. I jumped directly towards a HMG once, I slowed to stand still, then flew backwards as I died, I think it was when they added ragdoll effects back in, I don't have enough evidence to support the effect exsisting before that. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 544	Posted - 2014.03.02 14:05:00 - [60] - Quote Well just to get one thing clear, although the suit itself has the exact same turn speed of a Light or Medium suit, the speed penalty on armor plates also reduces turning speed. Then there's the HMG itself, which turns slower then their light weapon counterparts. So it's safe to assume that most encounters with a Heavy using an HMG, they already turning slower then you. The HMG optimal range is 20m. The Assault HMG's optimal is around 30m, at the cost of losing some CQC effectiveness. If you get dominated at 30m by an HMG, chances are it is a Freedom Assault HMG (the Proto version) using a Complex damage modifier or two. The Freedom is the only decent weapon of that variant. Shotguns can absolutely destroy a Heavy suit if you initate the attack from behind or flanking, the former giving the best odds for success. But the problem is that this is a coin toss on whether or not hit detection will be in your favor. The shotgun STILL has the hit detection issues it's had for almost an entire year, albeit slightly better then it used to be. I've been downed many times in 2 shotgun rounds, as well has survived many times from a whole clip being shot at me. Using Nova Knives in their current form against a heavy suit is simply foolish and you should not expect a success to begin with. Until NK's have a faster way to deliver charged attacks, it's as i already stated, a fools gambit. If you stay at 40+ meters from an Heavy using an HMG, you have the advantage with any weapon able to fire effectively in that 40+ meters. How many weapons have their optimal and effective ranges 40 meters and higher? That's how many weapons you can use against the Heavy, not only effectively, but advantageously. A Heavy with an HMG can only shred you to pieces if you get close enough to let him. Of course you can't always effect the situation due to terrain, and Heavies will always try and play it smart by staying inside CQC cities, but you can't cry OP based on a suit or weapon using it's niche to it's greatest effect. Are Sniper Rilfes OP only on Manus Peak? Are HAV's OP if they stay on open ground waiting for an infantry to run the cross country mile? Are Reppers OP when they are standing behind a Heavy? Are Uplinks OP when placed near an objective? Are MD's OP when used against a cluster of people? Are Scrambler rifles OP when used against Shield tanked suits?



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