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Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1166	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:07:00 - [1] - Quote with this and the new stats in mind heavys are going to be absolute monsters in 1.8 with insane amounts of EHP even while using basic suits while fully skilled. commandos (aka heavy assault) are going to overshadow traditional assault suits and logis are going to actually be logis. scouts are going to be.... dieing alot and killing alot but then again scouts have never really been all that concerned with KDR. mass drivers are going to be crap against the heavy spam and OP against everything else. winmatar assaults are going to also suffer from that splash damage reduction. caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. gallante heavys are going to scare the **** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades caldari/gal scout HMGs minmatar commandos with CR and MDs special mention, logis are going to absolutly LOVE 1.8 as it will be VERY armor heavy and there will be LOADS of people to rep and give ammo to that cant bring ammo themselves. Winmatar logi
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 580	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:16:00 - [2] - Quote I think your predictions sound pretty good, but you really never know for sure how it will play out.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 406	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:23:00 - [3] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I think your predictions sound pretty good, but you really never know for sure how it will play out. It's more observation than prediction. Who hasn't already said these things especially about the CalHeavies/Fluxes? I know I have. Heavy 514 isn't coming it's been here for a couple weeks people are just now starting to take notice because of the event. 32db Mad Bomber.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1166	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:24:00 - [4] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I think your predictions sound pretty good, but you really never know for sure how it will play out. currently EHP is king, the more HP you can stack the better, hence why you will see many heavys carting around light weapons, simply because the HP is better. i see nothing that will change that, and with the gallante heavys stats and skills theres nothing else int he game that can compaire to its defencive and therefore offencive capabilities. unlike the cal heavy the gal one has no natureal predators, theres no real counter to it because of the splash,projectile, and rail resistance every weapon that would be ideal to counter its massive block of HP suffers from extreme damage reduction. and unlike the cal wich normally would of been able to achieve similar results it cant be naded out of position effectivly either due to the splash reduction because locus just dont do enough damage to counter it unlike fluxes wich will still be able to take out the cals entire shield buffer. the Gal heavy has no natural predator, and if you pair it with a minmatar logi with a maxed out rep tool your simply not going to be able to kill it off effectivly, the damn thing will survive remotes with ease as well. HP is king, and the gal heavy reguardless of what weapon you stick on it is going to break the game.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1166	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:35:00 - [5] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: I think your predictions sound pretty good, but you really never know for sure how it will play out. It's more observation than prediction. Who hasn't already said these things especially about the CalHeavies/Fluxes? I know I have. Heavy 514 isn't coming it's been here for a couple weeks people are just now starting to take notice because of the event. you are correct, the event is definatly the cause of me taking a closer look at things to come, and anyone who thinks its bad now is going to wet themselves when an gal heavys are being spammed with every weapon under the sun simply because EVERYTHING that you shoot them with is going to be doing reduced damage either by its own effeciancy profile or from the damage reduction. nothing else in the game compaires since its the ONLY heavy suit that doesnt have a resistance hole, theres nothing you can throw at it that will be doing decent damage, coupled with it having the ability to stack the most HP of any suit means it may as well be the only suit in the game, everything else is inferior.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1445	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:42:00 - [6] - Quote When will DMG, eHP and DMG resistance not be the most imporant stats in a FPS? They will not be imporant if they only add a minor bonus, and not lets say 15% more HP per module like here. Drop it like its hat.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1166	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:51:00 - [7] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: When will DMG, eHP and DMG resistance not be the most imporant stats in a FPS? They will not be imporant if they only add a minor bonus, and not lets say 15% more HP per module like here. well damage isnt important right now, and ehp and resistance are essentially the same :P the problem is that PURE EHP is the most important stat, and its the only stat that matters in a suit, rather then say having their be a reason to focus on shields OR armor rather then both. and having any build that doesnt focus on that be not viable. it was supposed to be a game where the desision between shields, armor, speed, stam, scanning, and all those other mods were worthy choices givin the oportunity, but the reality has ended up that nothing but full on brick tank is any good, every other choice isnt just inferior, it VASTLY inferior.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10210	Posted - 2014.03.01 10:57:00 - [8] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. I agree with most of your predictions tbh, but I find this one baffling. You can get a comfortable 600 armour HP on a Caldari heavy and the shields start regenerating instantly after a flux. They won't kill you instantly. They'll do damage, but they won't guarantee a death, not by a long shot. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3061	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:00:00 - [9] - Quote Amarr heavy will actually be better overall. Superior projectile resistance, good armor buffer and twin damage mods means they will win heavy vs heavy engagements. The token 10% resistance to hybrids will still give them the edge against lighter suits. Good enough to kill the smaller stuff by default, has better damage resistance and damage application to deal with other heavies. There is only one logical choice for serious brawling and it's not the Gallente suit I'm afraid.
ALT2 acc 186	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:01:00 - [10] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Amarr heavy will actually be better overall. Superior projectile resistance, good armor buffer and twin damage mods means they will win heavy vs heavy engagements. The token 10% resistance to hybrids will still give them the edge against lighter suits. Good enough to kill the smaller stuff by default, has better damage resistance and damage application to deal with other heavies. There is only one logical choice for serious brawling and it's not the Gallente suit I'm afraid. Haha, ***** lol 5% more resistance with only 1 armor resistance with less slots, give me a ***** break... Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1166	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:01:00 - [11] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. I agree with most of your predictions tbh, but I find this one baffling. You can get a comfortable 600 armour HP on a Caldari heavy and the shields start regenerating instantly after a flux. They won't kill you instantly. They'll do damage, but they won't guarantee a death, not by a long shot. its 600 armor that wont regen, and 600HP is managable especially concidering that the cal heavy has ZERO armor resistances meaning you can bring full DPS to bear down on it with everything that isnt explosive. a flux basically turns it into mush my point was that a flux turns the cal heavy into a manageable situation, unlike the gal heavy wich has no such weakness.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1166	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:02:00 - [12] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Amarr heavy will actually be better overall. Superior projectile resistance, good armor buffer and twin damage mods means they will win heavy vs heavy engagements. The token 10% resistance to hybrids will still give them the edge against lighter suits. Good enough to kill the smaller stuff by default, has better damage resistance and damage application to deal with other heavies. There is only one logical choice for serious brawling and it's not the Gallente suit I'm afraid. Haha, ***** lol 5% more resistance with only 1 armor resistance with less slots, give me a ***** break... the only thing worse then the amarr heavy, is the minmatar one.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10211	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:03:00 - [13] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. I agree with most of your predictions tbh, but I find this one baffling. You can get a comfortable 600 armour HP on a Caldari heavy and the shields start regenerating instantly after a flux. They won't kill you instantly. They'll do damage, but they won't guarantee a death, not by a long shot. its 600 armor that wont regen, and 600HP is managable especially concidering that the cal heavy has ZERO armor resistances meaning you can bring full DPS to bear down on it with everything that isnt explosive. a flux basically turns it into mush my point was that a flux turns the cal heavy into a manageable situation, unlike the gal heavy wich has no such weakness. Remote explosive. But really, they're both going to be a huge pain to deal with. I can't wait until entire squads start spamming them... You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 181	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:04:00 - [14] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: with this and the new stats in mind heavys are going to be absolute monsters in 1.8 with insane amounts of EHP even while using basic suits while fully skilled. commandos (aka heavy assault) are going to overshadow traditional assault suits and logis are going to actually be logis. scouts are going to be.... dieing alot and killing alot but then again scouts have never really been all that concerned with KDR. mass drivers are going to be crap against the heavy spam and OP against everything else. winmatar assaults are going to also suffer from that splash damage reduction. caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. gallante heavys are going to scare the **** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades caldari/gal scout HMGs minmatar commandos with CR and MDs special mention, logis are going to absolutly LOVE 1.8 as it will be VERY armor heavy and there will be LOADS of people to rep and give ammo to that cant bring ammo themselves. Winmatar logi dont forget gallente assault suits. thier bouns to reducing hip-fire dispersion and kick is going to hurt and make even more AR shots hit.
Chuckles Brown 190	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:07:00 - [15] - Quote Here's a question concerning the new heavy suits. What are the fitting CPU/PG of them? Who's to say they can support the modules people are theorizing? The official alt of 8213: All other alts are unofficially unofficial Do you pub, brah?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3061	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:09:00 - [16] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Amarr heavy will actually be better overall. Superior projectile resistance, good armor buffer and twin damage mods means they will win heavy vs heavy engagements. The token 10% resistance to hybrids will still give them the edge against lighter suits. Good enough to kill the smaller stuff by default, has better damage resistance and damage application to deal with other heavies. There is only one logical choice for serious brawling and it's not the Gallente suit I'm afraid. Haha, ***** lol 5% more resistance with only 1 armor resistance with less slots, give me a ***** break... No, the same number of slots. Just in different places. The extra damage mod makes the HMG much more powerful then simply throwing on another plate. Of course, this is according to the current way damage mods work. If there is a single hole in what I am saying, it is the potential for changes in how the damage mods work. I have yet to hear the exact science behind that, though. It's rumored that damage mods will change so that they benefit the natural bonus of a weapon. So a laser rifle getting bonus damage to shields, only gets benefit from a damage mod when it comes to shield damage. The questions this raises extends to whether or not the value itself on the damage mod is increased so that it more quickly damages that sector of HP. If damage mods greatly effect the HMG's ability to rip apart armor, then the Amarr heavy is very much going to be THE natural predator to Gallente Heavies.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 406	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:15:00 - [17] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: Here's a question concerning the new heavy suits. What are the fitting CPU/PG of them? Who's to say they can support the modules people are theorizing? Since you were too lazy to look them up yourself. Before Passives: Cal Sent: 68/370 Gal Sent: 76/350 They're definitely not going to be hurting for pg/cpu. 32db Mad Bomber.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2435	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:21:00 - [18] - Quote Counter to the Gallente Sentinel is cloaked scouts lol or me in my Minmatar Sentinel with 3 damage mods sprinting around them in circles at 7.35 sprint speed with my own HMG. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Jade Dragonis GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 303	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:23:00 - [19] - Quote I think the Cal Sen will be popular with the AV crowd. High point with a Forge stacking damage mods will make it deadly to tanks and poor derp ships. Although I am going Cal and Gal Heavy to proto for the variety. The Cal Heavy will be more like the Pre Uprising heavy I knew and loved. Folloe me on Youtube
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1924	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:30:00 - [20] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: with this and the new stats in mind heavys are going to be absolute monsters in 1.8 with insane amounts of EHP even while using basic suits while fully skilled. commandos (aka heavy assault) are going to overshadow traditional assault suits and logis are going to actually be logis. scouts are going to be.... dieing alot and killing alot but then again scouts have never really been all that concerned with KDR. mass drivers are going to be crap against the heavy spam and OP against everything else. winmatar assaults are going to also suffer from that splash damage reduction. caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. gallante heavys are going to scare the **** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades caldari/gal scout HMGs minmatar commandos with CR and MDs special mention, logis are going to absolutly LOVE 1.8 as it will be VERY armor heavy and there will be LOADS of people to rep and give ammo to that cant bring ammo themselves. Winmatar logi People keep talking about the Gallente heavy but the real monster here is the Caldari Sentinel which will be the ultimate solo suit. For the Federation!

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1166	Posted - 2014.03.01 11:46:00 - [21] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: with this and the new stats in mind heavys are going to be absolute monsters in 1.8 with insane amounts of EHP even while using basic suits while fully skilled. commandos (aka heavy assault) are going to overshadow traditional assault suits and logis are going to actually be logis. scouts are going to be.... dieing alot and killing alot but then again scouts have never really been all that concerned with KDR. mass drivers are going to be crap against the heavy spam and OP against everything else. winmatar assaults are going to also suffer from that splash damage reduction. caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. gallante heavys are going to scare the **** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades caldari/gal scout HMGs minmatar commandos with CR and MDs special mention, logis are going to absolutly LOVE 1.8 as it will be VERY armor heavy and there will be LOADS of people to rep and give ammo to that cant bring ammo themselves. Winmatar logi People keep talking about the Gallente heavy but the real monster here is the Caldari Sentinel which will be the ultimate solo suit. the gallante commando that brings its own rep hives will certainly give it a run for its money :P the the gal heavy packing fluxes
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 894	Posted - 2014.03.01 12:19:00 - [22] - Quote I'm going to get my Caldari Heavy and sit plenty far away with my forge gun. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB For the STATE!
ALT2 acc 186	Posted - 2014.03.01 12:22:00 - [23] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I'm going to get my Caldari Heavy and sit plenty far away with my forge gun. You mean the under/overpowered forge? Overpowered infantry direct hits, no splash radius, too long charge time. Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Scheherazade VII 295	Posted - 2014.03.01 12:31:00 - [24] - Quote A lot of people are counting on 1.8 to fix things, right now it looks like CCP can make something UP to OP in one build. How will we ever achieve balance if things are going from: being completely useless to the best thing in the game? This also justifies respecs which will be needed all the time unless they can achieve balance and then leave things alone. Many people will quit if 1.8 isn't the saving grace they need, and the ones who quit before 1.7 won't be coming back either.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 296	Posted - 2014.03.01 12:41:00 - [25] - Quote Gal heavy needs six eyes or I'm probably not going to use it. I pick by aesthetics. Last concept art I saw has two which was very disappointing.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 12:54:00 - [26] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Gal heavy needs six eyes or I'm probably not going to use it. Well, the Gal Scout has 1 eye, and the med has 4. So the Heavy should either have 7 (+3) or 16 (+400%). 16 eyed Gal heavy, the double spider. - I'd also like to reming people that in New Eden, defense wins in the eternal struggle between weapons makers and armorers. Resistances are applied upon recieving damage, so a weapon that gets +10% against armor and an armor that gets +10% to that weapon does not equal out to a 0% buff/debuff. Example: Rail (+10% against armor) weapon does 100 damage. Target has a 10% armor resistance to rail weapons. For this scenario, we'll say the target has 0 shields. Damage done by weapon: 100 x 1.1 = 110. Damage done when it hits the target: 110 x 0.9 = 99. The weapon ends up doing only 99% of its original damage, meaning that the target still gets a 1% resistance, even though it's resistance percentage equaled the bonus against it. Now is the winter of our non-content.
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 200	Posted - 2014.03.01 12:58:00 - [27] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: with this and the new stats in mind heavys are going to be absolute monsters in 1.8 with insane amounts of EHP even while using basic suits while fully skilled. commandos (aka heavy assault) are going to overshadow traditional assault suits and logis are going to actually be logis. scouts are going to be.... dieing alot and killing alot but then again scouts have never really been all that concerned with KDR. mass drivers are going to be crap against the heavy spam and OP against everything else. winmatar assaults are going to also suffer from that splash damage reduction. caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. gallante heavys are going to scare the **** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades caldari/gal scout HMGs minmatar commandos with CR and MDs special mention, logis are going to absolutly LOVE 1.8 as it will be VERY armor heavy and there will be LOADS of people to rep and give ammo to that cant bring ammo themselves. Winmatar logi People keep talking about the Gallente heavy but the real monster here is the Caldari Sentinel which will be the ultimate solo suit. How so? I run a solo heavy. This would be my choice if it looked good. Also my Amarr Commando is already MD/CR, so making that switch is a no brainer. My sniper alt is already min logi/min assault, might keep that where it is. Although having a suicide cloaked scout with REs looks extra tastey too. Too many decisions! DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 330	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:21:00 - [28] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: I think your predictions sound pretty good, but you really never know for sure how it will play out. It's more observation than prediction. Who hasn't already said these things especially about the CalHeavies/Fluxes? I know I have. Heavy 514 isn't coming it's been here for a couple weeks people are just now starting to take notice because of the event. That's why I'm really hoping that 1sec depleted shield recharge startup isn't a typo for the cal heavy.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:24:00 - [29] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: That's why I'm really hoping that 1sec depleted shield recharge startup isn't a typo for the cal heavy. Source CCP Logibro wrote: So I checked with CCP Remnant, and the Caldari Sentinel Shield Depleted Recharge Delay is supposed to be 1. It is not a typo. The more you know! Now is the winter of our non-content.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 330	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:28:00 - [30] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: That's why I'm really hoping that 1sec depleted shield recharge startup isn't a typo for the cal heavy. Source CCP Logibro wrote: So I checked with CCP Remnant, and the Caldari Sentinel Shield Depleted Recharge Delay is supposed to be 1. It is not a typo. The more you know! Wonderful, time for dmg mods, energizers (ahahahah 80hp/s recharge) and regulators.

xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 1769	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:39:00 - [31] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. I agree with most of your predictions tbh, but I find this one baffling. You can get a comfortable 600 armour HP on a Caldari heavy and the shields start regenerating instantly after a flux. They won't kill you instantly. They'll do damage, but they won't guarantee a death, not by a long shot. If you fit a Cal Heavy as a pure shield tank it really hurts. Even if fluxed, it starts to to recharge the shield at 100+ HP/sec after 0.78 sec. Eventually could be killed by other heavies; it's hard to say if the Scrambler rifle actually do enough damage to negate the shield recharge before it overheats. Cal Heavy could be a beast. >Bastard I : "Cce me ne... futt! XD"
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 406	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:43:00 - [32] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: That's why I'm really hoping that 1sec depleted shield recharge startup isn't a typo for the cal heavy. Source CCP Logibro wrote: So I checked with CCP Remnant, and the Caldari Sentinel Shield Depleted Recharge Delay is supposed to be 1. It is not a typo. The more you know! Wonderful, time for dmg mods, energizers (ahahahah 80hp/s recharge) and regulators. only one low slot though 32db Mad Bomber.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:45:00 - [33] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: If you fit a Cal Heavy as a pure shield tank it really hurts. Even if fluxed, it starts to to recharge the shield at 100+ HP/sec after 0.78 sec. Eventually could be killed by other heavies; it's hard to say if the Scrambler rifle actually do enough damage to negate the shield recharge before it overheats. Cal Heavy could be a beast. Dropsuits aren't vehicles, they don't have a "damage threshold" for shield recharge under fire. You could flux them and then hit them for 1 damage every half a second and the shields won't recharge. Now is the winter of our non-content.
ALT2 acc 186	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:51:00 - [34] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. I agree with most of your predictions tbh, but I find this one baffling. You can get a comfortable 600 armour HP on a Caldari heavy and the shields start regenerating instantly after a flux. They won't kill you instantly. They'll do damage, but they won't guarantee a death, not by a long shot. If you fit a Cal Heavy as a pure shield tank it really hurts. Even if fluxed, it starts to to recharge the shield at 100+ HP/sec after 0.78 sec. Eventually could be killed by other heavies; it's hard to say if the Scrambler rifle actually do enough damage to negate the shield recharge before it overheats. Cal Heavy could be a beast. How did you get 100 hp/s? Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 406	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:52:00 - [35] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Example: Rail (+10% against armor) weapon does 100 damage. Target has a 10% armor resistance to rail weapons. For this scenario, we'll say the target has 0 shields. Damage done by weapon: 100 x 1.1 = 110. Damage done when it hits the target: 110 x 0.9 = 99. The weapon ends up doing only 99% of its original damage, meaning that the target still gets a 1% resistance, even though it's resistance percentage equaled the bonus against it. There's a slight rounding error in your post it's .909090 repeating not .9 110 x (1/1.1) = 100% 32db Mad Bomber.
ALT2 acc 186	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:52:00 - [36] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: If you fit a Cal Heavy as a pure shield tank it really hurts. Even if fluxed, it starts to to recharge the shield at 100+ HP/sec after 0.78 sec. Eventually could be killed by other heavies; it's hard to say if the Scrambler rifle actually do enough damage to negate the shield recharge before it overheats. Cal Heavy could be a beast. Dropsuits aren't vehicles, they don't have a "damage threshold" for shield recharge under fire. You could flux them and then hit them for 1 damage every half a second and the shields won't recharge. Which needs to be fixed No way should an ar 100m away stop my recharge... Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 13:58:00 - [37] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: . There's a slight rounding error in your post it's .909090 repeating not .9 110 x (1/1.1) = 100% The .9 was from 90%, aka a -10% damage reduction. I have never seen anyone do 1 divided by 110% to apply a 10% damage reduction. I remain confident in my original post. Now is the winter of our non-content.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:05:00 - [38] - Quote 1.8 is heavy 514 sadly though the minmatar heavy cant hold a candle to the other 3, and the amaar is outclassed by gal and cal. this game has balance problems.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 406	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:06:00 - [39] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: There's a slight rounding error in your post it's .909090 repeating not .9 110 x (1/1.1) = 100% The .9 was from 90%, aka a -10% damage reduction. I have never seen anyone do 1 divided by 110% to apply a 10% damage reduction. I remain confident in my original post. The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa*1/b 32db Mad Bomber.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2280	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:20:00 - [40] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: There's a slight rounding error in your post it's .909090 repeating not .9 110 x (1/1.1) = 100% The .9 was from 90%, aka a -10% damage reduction. I have never seen anyone do 1 divided by 110% to apply a 10% damage reduction. I remain confident in my original post. The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa*1/b No idea what kind of funky math you are trying to post here but arx is definitely correct.

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:26:00 - [41] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: There's a slight rounding error in your post it's .909090 repeating not .9 110 x (1/1.1) = 100% The .9 was from 90%, aka a -10% damage reduction. I have never seen anyone do 1 divided by 110% to apply a 10% damage reduction. I remain confident in my original post. The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa*1/b No idea what kind of funky math you are trying to post here but arx is definitely correct. damage resistance aka damage reduction is indeed applyed to.... damage... as it reduces damage.... i had this same debate long ago about tank resistance and went throught he trouble of proving it back then so i can confirm first hand the math is all done damage side and doesnt interact with shields/armor at all. damage = 100 bonus = 10% reduction = 10% damage + bonus = 110 10% of 110 is 11 and so final damage is 99, this is the correct way to calculate it.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 408	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:28:00 - [42] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: There's a slight rounding error in your post it's .909090 repeating not .9 110 x (1/1.1) = 100% The .9 was from 90%, aka a -10% damage reduction. I have never seen anyone do 1 divided by 110% to apply a 10% damage reduction. I remain confident in my original post. The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa*1/b No idea what kind of funky math you are trying to post here but arx is definitely correct. If you can't understand math, how could tell whether someone's math is right or not? 32db Mad Bomber.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:31:00 - [43] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa*1/b What are your variables? Also, I don't know why you have the two sides equal. Damage applied (X) = [Weapon damage(d) x weapon bonus (b)] x Resist(r) or X = (db)r Now is the winter of our non-content.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:36:00 - [44] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa*1/b What are your variables? Also, I don't know why you have the two sides equal. Damage applied (X) = [Weapon damage(d) x weapon bonus (b)] x Resist(r) or X = (db)r guys its irrelevent, ive posted the explanation on how damage reduction is calculated, ive tested it extensivly int he past back when there was a debate how resistance worked on tanks and know 100% first hand how it works in dust. i also simplified out so that an idiot could understand it and did so without having to post mathmatical formulas, your all putting in alot of effort when its obvious that 10% of 110 is in fact 11, and so 100 damage turns into 99 after a 10% bonus and a 10% reduction are applyed.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 408	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:41:00 - [45] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa1/b What are your variables? Also, I don't know why you have the two sides equal. Damage applied (X) = [Weapon damage(d) x weapon bonus (b)] x Resist(r) or X = (db)r Rule of Conservation. In = Out weapon damage (x) weapon bonus (a) = health value (y) * resist (b) rearrange to for weapon damage needed to kill ______: x = yb/a or for how much damage from ______ weapon can given hp sustain: y = xa/b 32db Mad Bomber.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:41:00 - [46] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa*1/b What are your variables? Also, I don't know why you have the two sides equal. Damage applied (X) = [Weapon damage(d) x weapon bonus (b)] x Resist(r) or X = (db)r guys its irrelevent, ive posted the explanation on how damage reduction is calculated, ive tested it extensivly int he past back when there was a debate how resistance worked on tanks and know 100% first hand how it works in dust. i also simplified out so that an idiot could understand it and did so without having to post mathmatical formulas, your all putting in alot of effort when its obvious that 10% of 110 is in fact 11, and so 100 damage turns into 99 after a 10% bonus and a 10% reduction are applyed. Which is what I said in my original reminder, yes. I was just trying to help Asha understand. The original post was about EHP, though, so talk of resistances isn't irrelevant. I am curious as to how much (%) damage from each type is going to be applied to a fully skilled Gal Sentinel. Unfortuantely, the web filter at my work blocks CCP's images on the upcoming changes, so I can't do it myself at the moment. Now is the winter of our non-content.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:43:00 - [47] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: The damage bonus is applied to the incoming damage and the resist to the shield/armor. xa = yb y = xa/b or y = xa1/b What are your variables? Also, I don't know why you have the two sides equal. Damage applied (X) = [Weapon damage(d) x weapon bonus (b)] x Resist(r) or X = (db)r Rule of Conservation. In = Out weapon damage (x) weapon bonus (a) = health value (y) * resist (b) rearrange to for weapon damage needed to kill ______: x = yb/a or for how much damage from ______ weapon can given hp sustain: y = xa/b except that your weapon will do the exact same damage reguardless of how much HP the target has.... meaning "health value" should in no way EVER be in your equation. tested and proven personally, your calculating somethign that doesnt exsist in the game.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:44:00 - [48] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Which is what I said in my original reminder, yes. I was just trying to help Asha understand. The original post was about EHP, though, so talk of resistances isn't irrelevant. I am curious as to how much (%) damage from each type is going to be applied to a fully skilled Gal Sentinel. Unfortuantely, the web filter at my work blocks CCP's images on the upcoming changes, so I can't do it myself at the moment. 15% reduction against rail weaponry (armor only) 10% reduction against projectile (armor only) 25% redection against splash (armor and shields)
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:45:00 - [49] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Rule of Conservation. In = Out weapon damage (x) * weapon bonus (a) = health value (y) * resist (b) rearrange to for weapon damage needed to kill ______: x = yb/a or for how much damage from ______ weapon can given hp sustain: y = xa/b Well there's your problem, Asha. You're not looking for the damage done, but the damage needed. There's a difference. Now is the winter of our non-content.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:49:00 - [50] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: 15% reduction against rail weaponry (armor only) 10% reduction against projectile (armor only) 25% redection against splash (armor and shields) So the Gallente Sentinel will take: 80% damage from laser weapons 90% damage from explosive splash damage (would a direct hit from an MD or Flaylock deal the full 120%?) 93.5% damage from Rail weaponry 99% damage from Projectile weaponry. Scary indeed. Nothing will do full damage against it's main tank, unless direct hits from explosive weapons are excluded from the splash reduction (which you think they would). So maybe the best counter to a Gal Sentinel will be a marksman with an MD. Edit: Ghosts, I would add this resistance profile to your OP to better help your point. Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:53:00 - [51] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: 90% damage from explosive splash damage (would a direct hit from an MD or Flaylock deal the full 120%?) Scary indeed. Nothing will do full damage against it's main tank, unless direct hits from explosive weapons are excluded from the splash reduction (which you think they would). i think you may be correct, a mass driver/flaylock to the face is going to do its full damage and ignore all the resistances! this my friend, makes you my hero for the day, i hadnt even though of that yet. this makes a case for MD/Flaylock becuase the gal is going to be REALLY slow... and so flaylocks and breach massdrivers are going to be able to hit their mark quite easily in this case and end up doing insane damage.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 609	Posted - 2014.03.01 14:58:00 - [52] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: this my friend, makes you my hero for the day, i hadnt even though of that yet. this makes a case for MD/Flaylock becuase the gal is going to be REALLY slow... and so flaylocks and breach massdrivers are going to be able to hit their mark quite easily in this case and end up doing insane damage. Does this make up for the semi-hijack? Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 15:00:00 - [53] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: this my friend, makes you my hero for the day, i hadnt even though of that yet. this makes a case for MD/Flaylock becuase the gal is going to be REALLY slow... and so flaylocks and breach massdrivers are going to be able to hit their mark quite easily in this case and end up doing insane damage. Does this make up for the semi-hijack? it justifies it completly the minmatar commando is going to be the only thing that can put up a fight..... the minmatar assault is a candidate as it stands as well due to its increased flaylock clip size making direct hits very very likely.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 409	Posted - 2014.03.01 15:06:00 - [54] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Rule of Conservation. In = Out weapon damage (x) * weapon bonus (a) = health value (y) * resist (b) rearrange to for weapon damage needed to kill ______: x = yb/a or for how much damage from ______ weapon can given hp sustain: y = xa/b Well there's your problem, Asha. You're not looking for the damage done, but the damage needed. There's a difference. Fair enough, but I calc how it's stated. Ghosts Chance wrote: except that your weapon will do the exact same damage reguardless of how much HP the target has.... meaning "health value" should in no way EVER be in your equation. tested and proven personally, your calculating somethign that doesnt exsist in the game. What does that even mean? The target will only ever see the damage equivalent to their hp. For example, you instantaneously deal 900pts of pure damage to a target with 600 total ehp, they will only see 600damage, the point at which their health drops to 0. The remaining 300pts goes into a corpse. Health will always equal damage taken. About your tests IIRC 'in-game' decimals are not displayed so without pulling the real-time data straight from the system memory the best you can do is an approximation on how it is handled not a definitive conclusion, we're talking about 1% that there is no way to measure. 32db Mad Bomber.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 15:18:00 - [55] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Rule of Conservation. In = Out weapon damage (x) * weapon bonus (a) = health value (y) * resist (b) rearrange to for weapon damage needed to kill ______: x = yb/a or for how much damage from ______ weapon can given hp sustain: y = xa/b Well there's your problem, Asha. You're not looking for the damage done, but the damage needed. There's a difference. Fair enough, but I calc how it's stated. Ghosts Chance wrote: except that your weapon will do the exact same damage reguardless of how much HP the target has.... meaning "health value" should in no way EVER be in your equation. tested and proven personally, your calculating somethign that doesnt exsist in the game. What does that even mean? The target will only ever see the damage equivalent to their hp. For example, you instantaneously deal 900pts of pure damage to a target with 600 total ehp, they will only see 600damage, the point at which their health drops to 0. The remaining 300pts goes into a corpse. Health will always equal damage taken. About your tests IIRC 'in-game' decimals are not displayed so without pulling the real-time data straight from the system memory the best you can do is an approximation on how it is handled not a definitive conclusion. you can rule out by exemption, its not about matching nuymbers its about calculating expected results and getting ACTUAL results and compairing the two. aka you know wich ones right because it came within the same number + or - a tiny fraction. if you were expecting 1523 damage for one calculation and 1654 for the other and the real damage recieved was 1534 wich of the two original formulas was correct? you math is technically correct, for calulating EHP, but we were discussing damage itself and how damage reduction has a greater effect then a damage bonus and so we could not use EHP as our basis we actually had to use the math used in game to confirm that. 10 damage increase is worth less then a 10% damage reduction, because an increase is = to 10 and a reduction is equal to 11 from my previous example. in addition to that the decimal places ARE shown in game under the weapon information screen AND we can do the math for HP accurate to a (near) infinate amount of decimal places because of the wonderful invention of the calulator. your assumption that we cant calculate the numbers in game with 100% accuracy is false, we can its a really really simple thing called math. i can calulate with 100% accuracyu how much cpu or PG we have after skills are applyed, and how much cpu and pg a module or weapon uses (including decimal places :P) with 100% accuracy as well. i can also calculate EXACTLY how much hp a suit has including decimal places i can calulate how much damage something will do including decimal places i can calculate how much damage something can obsorb including decimal places. math... it kinda works.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 610	Posted - 2014.03.01 15:41:00 - [56] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: The target will only ever see the damage equivalent to their hp. For example, you instantaneously deal 900pts of pure damage to a target with 600 total ehp, they will only see 600damage, the point at which their health drops to 0. The remaining 300pts goes into a corpse. Health will always equal damage taken. The problem with your method is when we calculate damage done that is less than the total HP of the target. Take 200 points of damage into a 600 ehp target, for example. Weapon damage (x): 200 Weapon bonus (a): 10% (110% total) Resist (b): 10% Total target health (y): 600 Plugged into your equation of xa=yb, we get 200(1.1) = 600b, with b needing to be .3666...(etc). Does that sound correct? No, because your equation is for damage needed to kill, not damage done by single shot. Like Ghosts said, your math is correct, but you're tying to find a different value. Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:19:00 - [57] - Quote ive been doing math and WOW... if you thought heavys wielding RRs is bad now.... just wait till you run into a gal heavy with 1101.75 armor in ddition to its aprox 480 shields..... forget HMGs on the thing, it doesnt matter what weapon you stick on that suit your going to be a wrecking ball... the cal sentinal is just as bad but wont be able to take advantage of logi reps in quite the same way.... heavys with light weapons.... heavys with light weapons EVERYWHERE.... assault suits cannot compete, HP>Speed and damage
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1312	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:20:00 - [58] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: 15% reduction against rail weaponry (armor only) 10% reduction against projectile (armor only) 25% redection against splash (armor and shields) So the Gallente Sentinel will take: 80% damage from laser weapons 90% damage from explosive splash damage (would a direct hit from an MD or Flaylock deal the full 120%?) 93.5% damage from Rail weaponry 99% damage from Projectile weaponry. Scary indeed. Nothing will do full damage against it's main tank, unless direct hits from explosive weapons are excluded from the splash reduction (which you think they would). So maybe the best counter to a Gal Sentinel will be a marksman with an MD. Edit: Ghosts, I would add this resistance profile to your OP to better help your point. Could this mean that the Breach MD is going to become the weapon of choice for punishing super amor-stacked heavies? Core Breach MD currently hits for 372 damage on a direct hit, you could easily be pushing 500 with current stats and damage mods, post-buff you might even be looking at 2-shotting a Gal heavy if you lead with a flux.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 409	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:21:00 - [59] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: The target will only ever see the damage equivalent to their hp. For example, you instantaneously deal 900pts of pure damage to a target with 600 total ehp, they will only see 600damage, the point at which their health drops to 0. The remaining 300pts goes into a corpse. Health will always equal damage taken. The problem with your method is when we calculate damage done that is less than the total HP of the target. Take 200 points of damage into a 600 ehp target, for example. Weapon damage (x): 200 Weapon bonus (a): 10% (110% total) Resist (b): 10% Total target health (y): 600 Plugged into your equation of xa=yb, we get 200(1.1) = 600b, with b needing to be .3666...(etc). Does that sound correct? No, because your equation is for damage needed to kill, not damage done by single shot. Like Ghosts said, your math is correct, but you're tying to find a different value. You solved for (b), which you already provided, and due to the associative law the statement is false because a=b, they cancel each other out leaving 200 = 600, which is not true. What you solved for was how much of a damage penalty would be needed for a 200hp shot to kill a suit with 600hp. :/ 32db Mad Bomber.
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1769	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:24:00 - [60] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: with this and the new stats in mind heavys are going to be absolute monsters in 1.8 with insane amounts of EHP even while using basic suits while fully skilled. commandos (aka heavy assault) are going to overshadow traditional assault suits and logis are going to actually be logis. scouts are going to be.... dieing alot and killing alot but then again scouts have never really been all that concerned with KDR. mass drivers are going to be crap against the heavy spam and OP against everything else. winmatar assaults are going to also suffer from that splash damage reduction. caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. gallante heavys are going to scare the **** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades caldari/gal scout HMGs minmatar commandos with CR and MDs special mention, logis are going to absolutly LOVE 1.8 as it will be VERY armor heavy and there will be LOADS of people to rep and give ammo to that cant bring ammo themselves. Winmatar logi One thing is right. Ehp is king. And minmatar have the lowest ehp. They r and will be weak. minmatar hvy is weak. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça

Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 611	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:36:00 - [61] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: You solved for (b), which you already provided, and due to the associative law the statement is false because a=b, they cancel each other out leaving 200 = 600, which is not true. What you solved for was how much of a damage penalty would be needed for a 200hp shot to kill a suit with 600hp. :/ Yeah, I had quite a bit of trouble trying to shoehorn the damage profile into your EHP equation, because they're not the same thing. But that's just it, you're trying to use a "x needed to kill y" equation to try and find a "x does z" answer. I'm starting to regret trying to shoehorn, however, because now it's going to distract from the point that EHP w/ resist =/= damage w/ bonus. Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:42:00 - [62] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: You solved for (b), which you already provided, and due to the associative law the statement is false because a=b, they cancel each other out leaving 200 = 600, which is not true. What you solved for was how much of a damage penalty would be needed for a 200hp shot to kill a suit with 600hp. :/ Yeah, I had quite a bit of trouble trying to shoehorn the damage profile into your EHP equation, because they're not the same thing. But that's just it, you're trying to use a "x needed to kill y" equation to try and find a "x does z" answer. I'm starting to regret trying to shoehorn, however, because now it's going to distract from the point that EHP w/ resist =/= damage w/ bonus. you tried thats what counts. now lets try to see how much damage we can stuff into a breach mass driver :P aparently on a minmatar commando with 2 damage mods you can get it to aproximatly 546 (i aproximated the penalty on the second dmg mod) meaning you can ALMOST 2 shot a gal heavy with it with direct hits.... thats insane, its a shotgun basically..... assuming they dont change the dmg profile of the MD that is... and its down to the wire, and depending on build.... i forse breach mass drivers being clutch the only problem is commandos cant have granades...
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 611	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:46:00 - [63] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: now lets try to see how much damage we can stuff into a breach mass driver :P aparently on a minmatar commando with 2 damage mods you can get it to aproximatly 546 (i aproximated the penalty on the second dmg mod) meaning you can ALMOST 2 shot a gal heavy with it with direct hits.... thats insane, its a shotgun basically..... assuming they dont change the dmg profile of the MD that is... and its down to the wire, and depending on build.... i forse breach mass drivers being clutch the only problem is commandos cant have granades... Don't forget this post, Ghosts: CCP Logibro wrote: Well, that's not the only thing the Mass Driver is getting in 1.8 Increased base direct/splash damage from 242/116 to 300/145 So, if the base MD is getting buffed to 300 direct damage, what's the new breach value going to be? Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1168	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:49:00 - [64] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: now lets try to see how much damage we can stuff into a breach mass driver :P aparently on a minmatar commando with 2 damage mods you can get it to aproximatly 546 (i aproximated the penalty on the second dmg mod) meaning you can ALMOST 2 shot a gal heavy with it with direct hits.... thats insane, its a shotgun basically..... assuming they dont change the dmg profile of the MD that is... and its down to the wire, and depending on build.... i forse breach mass drivers being clutch the only problem is commandos cant have granades... Don't forget this post, Ghosts: CCP Logibro wrote: Well, that's not the only thing the Mass Driver is getting in 1.8 Increased base direct/splash damage from 242/116 to 300/145 So, if the base MD is getting buffed to 300 direct damage, what's the new breach value going to be? could be nothing.... (sadface) they are known for changing some values and not others, i think they left one of the original assault md stats in place when they nerfed em :P
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 410	Posted - 2014.03.01 16:58:00 - [65] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: You solved for (b), which you already provided, and due to the associative law the statement is false because a=b, they cancel each other out leaving 200 = 600, which is not true. What you solved for was how much of a damage penalty would be needed for a 200hp shot to kill a suit with 600hp. :/ Yeah, I had quite a bit of trouble trying to shoehorn the damage profile into your EHP equation, because they're not the same thing. But that's just it, you're trying to use a "x needed to kill y" equation to try and find a "x does z" answer. I'm starting to regret trying to shoehorn, however, because now it's going to distract from the point that EHP w/ resist =/= damage w/ bonus. Just think about if you know how much you're dishing out 200pts of damage(x) that deals 10% bonus damage(a) to a specific defense, random person(y) walking around gets 15% resist(b) to x damage type. How much damage does y receive? We know a,b,x, so we're solving for y. The answer should be 191.3 32db Mad Bomber.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 611	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:22:00 - [66] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Just think about if you know how much you're dishing out 200pts of damage(x) that deals 10% bonus damage(a) to a specific defense, random person(y) walking around gets 15% resist(b) to x damage type. How much damage does y receive? We know a,b,x, so we're solving for y. The answer should be 191.3 Except there's a big difference between dividing by 1.15 (the resistance bonus to the target's health) and multipying by 0.85 (the resistance penalty) to the damage done. One gets you 191.3, the other gets you 187. You're still using the resistance as a bonus to the target (a wonky ehp calculation) instead of using it as a penalty to the damage (damage done calculation). Having a 15% resistance to something doesn't give you 15% more hp against it. Having a 50% resistance lowers the incoming damage by 50%, leaving it with 50% damage left, or half (1/2). This means your EHP against it is twice as much (2/1), because it takes them two shots to do the damage of one shot against 0% resistance. This works though because 50% is a easy, even number. Having a 15% resistance lowers the incoming damage by 15%, leaving it with 85% damage left, or 85/100 (simplified: 17/20). This means your EHP against it is 20/17, or actually 17.6% greater. Three 200 point shots to kill 600hp with no resists. 600/(200 x 1.0) Six 200 point shots to kill 600ehp with 50% resists. 600/(200 x 0.5) 3.529 200 point shots to kill 600ehp with 15% resists. 600/(200 x .85) Those 3.529 200 damage shots equal out to 705.88 damage done. 705.88/600 = 1.176 Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.
Vordred Knight Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 16	Posted - 2014.03.01 17:33:00 - [67] - Quote Gallente shall rule because FREEDOM!!!! ashes to ashes dust to dust we are nothing but dust and to dust you shall return - Father Alexander Anderson
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 1780	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:32:00 - [68] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: If you fit a Cal Heavy as a pure shield tank it really hurts. Even if fluxed, it starts to to recharge the shield at 100+ HP/sec after 0.78 sec. Eventually could be killed by other heavies; it's hard to say if the Scrambler rifle actually do enough damage to negate the shield recharge before it overheats. Cal Heavy could be a beast. Dropsuits aren't vehicles, they don't have a "damage threshold" for shield recharge under fire. You could flux them and then hit them for 1 damage every half a second and the shields won't recharge. Which needs to be fixed No way should an ar 100m away stop my recharge... Of course, yes, but a Heavy is not supposed to stay in open spaces. I think it's going to be a good shoot and hide point defense. >Bastard I : "Cce me ne... futt! XD"
ALT2 acc 203	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:38:00 - [69] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: Arx Ardashir wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: If you fit a Cal Heavy as a pure shield tank it really hurts. Even if fluxed, it starts to to recharge the shield at 100+ HP/sec after 0.78 sec. Eventually could be killed by other heavies; it's hard to say if the Scrambler rifle actually do enough damage to negate the shield recharge before it overheats. Cal Heavy could be a beast. Dropsuits aren't vehicles, they don't have a "damage threshold" for shield recharge under fire. You could flux them and then hit them for 1 damage every half a second and the shields won't recharge. Which needs to be fixed No way should an ar 100m away stop my recharge... Of course, yes, but a Heavy is not supposed to stay in open spaces. I think it's going to be a good shoot and hide point defense. Im talking all caldari auits, and no one said it was in the open... Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1843	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:52:00 - [70] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: heavys with light weapons.... heavys with light weapons EVERYWHERE.... assault suits cannot compete, HP>Speed and damage This is why I really, really want Sentinel suits limited to Heavy Weapons only. The problem? CCP already said they won't be doing that. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]

Turtle Hermit Roshi D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 205	Posted - 2014.03.03 13:56:00 - [71] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: gallante heavys are going to scare the **** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades HMGs Winmatar logi duh why do you thingi bilt my character like this a year ago ive been anticipating OP heavies since this tme last year BRING FORTH THE QQ FOR I AM FULLY SPECED INTO THE FOTM AND SHALL VANQUISH ALL POSERS Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for, welcome to New Eden -ill b there SoonGäó KAMEHAMEHA TANK KILLA
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2703	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:03:00 - [72] - Quote EHP is King in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. I am not so sure about 1.8. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
ALT2 acc 203	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:06:00 - [73] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: EHP is King in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. I am not so sure about 1.8. Grabs a cloaked shotgun whistles Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1201	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:10:00 - [74] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: EHP is King in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. I am not so sure about 1.8. Grabs a cloaked shotgun whistles good luck getting 6 shots off before you get mowed down dude. your ideal target is the support logis, get in, wait, time it right, kill the logi, and gtfo.
ALT2 acc 203	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:11:00 - [75] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: EHP is King in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. I am not so sure about 1.8. Grabs a cloaked shotgun whistles good luck getting 6 shots off before you get mowed down dude. your ideal target is the support logis, get in, wait, time it right, kill the logi, and gtfo. Currently for a mlt shotgun, its 3 shots Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 906	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:12:00 - [76] - Quote Proto Min Scout + Nova Knife Proficiency 5 + 3x Complex Sidearm Damage Mods = 1809 HP damage from one double-bladed charge swipe. Combine with cloak for a paper-thin heavy slayer :D
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1201	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:14:00 - [77] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: EHP is King in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. I am not so sure about 1.8. Grabs a cloaked shotgun whistles good luck getting 6 shots off before you get mowed down dude. your ideal target is the support logis, get in, wait, time it right, kill the logi, and gtfo. Currently for a mlt shotgun, its 3 shots im just sayin, if im making a PC team and im including scouts, their job will be uplink hunting, flank harassment and logi killing. prioritise logis man, scouts are the best way to remove the logis quickly and effectivly. its like MMO-style combat, the rogues job is to tie up and or instagank the healers so that the rest of the team can do their jobs.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1869	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:17:00 - [78] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Amarr heavy will actually be better overall. Superior projectile resistance, good armor buffer and twin damage mods means they will win heavy vs heavy engagements. The token 10% resistance to hybrids will still give them the edge against lighter suits. Good enough to kill the smaller stuff by default, has better damage resistance and damage application to deal with other heavies. There is only one logical choice for serious brawling and it's not the Gallente suit I'm afraid. Yeah this, basically. A (marginally) lower armour buffer, 5% higher resistance to projectiles and an extra high slot for damage mods means I'm thinking the pub heavy will be Cal for soloing, Gal for squad play and Amarr will be the suit for serious heavy v heavy combat. Very much dependent on the final statistics for damage mods, though. If they're changed I think the balance will turn towards the Gal heavy for serious brawling. Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2703	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:40:00 - [79] - Quote If Gallente Heavy becomes the FOTM and Amarr Heavy becomes known as the heroic Anti-Heavy, then I would be happy with that. Gallente Heavy is the one Sentinel I donGÇÖt plan to skill into, and I am going to 5 in Amarr Heavy first. And, yes, I chose Amarr specifically because it would be powerful against other HMG Heavies. That and the fact it has the best Stamina. * By "I" of course I mean my Heavy character. Fox does not do heavy.... yet. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3285	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:44:00 - [80] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: I think your predictions sound pretty good, but you really never know for sure how it will play out. currently EHP is king, the more HP you can stack the better, hence why you will see many heavys carting around light weapons, simply because the HP is better. i see nothing that will change that, and with the gallante heavys stats and skills theres nothing else int he game that can compaire to its defencive and therefore offencive capabilities. unlike the cal heavy the gal one has no natureal predators, theres no real counter to it because of the splash,projectile, and rail resistance every weapon that would be ideal to counter its massive block of HP suffers from extreme damage reduction. and unlike the cal wich normally would of been able to achieve similar results it cant be naded out of position effectivly either due to the splash reduction because locus just dont do enough damage to counter it unlike fluxes wich will still be able to take out the cals entire shield buffer. the Gal heavy has no natural predator, and if you pair it with a minmatar logi with a maxed out rep tool your simply not going to be able to kill it off effectivly, the damn thing will survive remotes with ease as well. HP is king, and the gal heavy reguardless of what weapon you stick on it is going to break the game. the only thing i see even standing a chance would be a minmatar commando with MD and combat rifle to combat the damage reductions with damage bonuses but even then the inferior HP will probably mean that on equal footing the minni still loses out. There is AN answer to Gal Heavies, but it's gonna suck to put into action. It has splash resistance, but this is not EXPLOSIVE resistance. This means that DIRECT DAMAGE explosives will still deal 125% damage. Answer? Breach MD. A proto Breach MD will deal 535 damage to armor a shot. Combine with flux, and you can two shot a Gal Heavy. Get good at direct shots people. You're gonna need it. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. I've got 3k likes, I'll double post if I want to dammit!

Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3287	Posted - 2014.03.03 14:47:00 - [81] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: EHP is King in 1.5, 1.6, and 1.7. I am not so sure about 1.8. Grabs a cloaked shotgun whistles good luck getting 6 shots off before you get mowed down dude. your ideal target is the support logis, get in, wait, time it right, kill the logi, and gtfo. Currently for a mlt shotgun, its 3 shots im just sayin, if im making a PC team and im including scouts, their job will be uplink hunting, flank harassment and logi killing. prioritise logis man, scouts are the best way to remove the logis quickly and effectivly. its like MMO-style combat, the rogues job is to tie up and or instagank the healers so that the rest of the team can do their jobs. Yep. If you run into a full squad with its back turned, your goal should ALWAYS be the logi's first. You can remove ammo, rep support, and uplink support in one move. Heavies will lose a lot of staying power without a logi, and this is the best way to weaken a team in the long run. I support MMO style play Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. I've got 3k likes, I'll double post if I want to dammit!
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 628	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:27:00 - [82] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: There is AN answer to Gal Heavies, but it's gonna suck to put into action. It has splash resistance, but this is not EXPLOSIVE resistance. This means that DIRECT DAMAGE explosives will still deal 125% damage. Answer? Breach MD. A proto Breach MD will deal 535 damage to armor a shot. Combine with flux, and you can two shot a Gal Heavy. Get good at direct shots people. You're gonna need it. Ghosts Chance and I came to that conclusion at the end of page 3. Now is the winter of our non-content. Ghosts Chance's hero for 3/1/14.
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 1426	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:32:00 - [83] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I think your predictions sound pretty good, but you really never know for sure how it will play out. i do Who wants some?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11904	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:35:00 - [84] - Quote We need remote shield reppers and shield repping nano hives. Come on CCP, parity Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 129	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:39:00 - [85] - Quote Looks like it's time to get gud with the plasma cannon... Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1347	Posted - 2014.03.03 17:40:00 - [86] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: Looks like it's time to get gud with the plasma cannon... PLC already doesn't OHK tanked heavies with a direct hit.
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1206	Posted - 2014.03.03 18:10:00 - [87] - Quote I don't agree with some of the statements about the heavies. Gallente Sentinels will be weak against explosives. MDs come back and they'll blow their armor and HP to Hell. The Scrambler will also still be an issue since it's a high alpha damage weapon with nice precision. Amarr Sentinels will also be weak against explosives, surprisingly. Minmatar Commandos will be the source of pain from both the Amarr and their Gallente counterparts. The AR will still be as effective as it is today though, since the Amarr aren't really focused on regen but just stacking. The AR will also be effective because their shields are resistant to rail technology, not blasters. While the Caldari won't be weak to the Laser Rifle or blasters, it will keep it's weakness to Flux grenades. Timed properly, a flux grenade can lead to an easier kill due to the resistance being based on it's shields, not armor and the fact that the shields don't have a resistance to Flux grenades. The Minmatar will actually be weak to explosives as well. A combination of Rail Rifles and Flaylocks will do them in quick. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1206	Posted - 2014.03.03 18:17:00 - [88] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: I don't agree with some of the statements about the heavies. Gallente Sentinels will be weak against explosives. MDs come back and they'll blow their armor and HP to Hell. The Scrambler will also still be an issue since it's a high alpha damage weapon with nice precision. Amarr Sentinels will also be weak against explosives, surprisingly. Minmatar Commandos will be the source of pain from both the Amarr and their Gallente counterparts. The AR will still be as effective as it is today though, since the Amarr aren't really focused on regen but just stacking. The AR will also be effective because their shields are resistant to rail technology, not blasters. While the Caldari won't be weak to the Laser Rifle or blasters, it will keep it's weakness to Flux grenades. Timed properly, a flux grenade can lead to an easier kill due to the resistance being based on it's shields, not armor and the fact that the shields don't have a resistance to Flux grenades. The Minmatar will actually be weak to explosives as well. A combination of Rail Rifles and Flaylocks will do them in quick. they are only weak in reguards to direct hits, wich only the skilled can pull off reliably
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1589	Posted - 2014.03.08 22:03:00 - [89] - Quote You can get 26 hp/sec on gal heavy. That is 4 less than cal assaults shield reg. It will be great. Drop it like its hat.
Supernus Gigas Star Giants 409	Posted - 2014.03.08 22:28:00 - [90] - Quote The Gallente Sentinel will also be able to speed tank better than the Minmatar Sentinel will. What the hell CCP? Don't believe me? Then look at this thread. Look at it. Looooook. *FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!*

Glass Zeraki The Phoenix Federation Proficiency V. 20	Posted - 2014.03.08 23:00:00 - [91] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: with this and the new stats in mind heavys are going to be absolute monsters in 1.8 with insane amounts of EHP even while using basic suits while fully skilled. commandos (aka heavy assault) are going to overshadow traditional assault suits and logis are going to actually be logis. scouts are going to be.... dieing alot and killing alot but then again scouts have never really been all that concerned with KDR. mass drivers are going to be crap against the heavy spam and OP against everything else. winmatar assaults are going to also suffer from that splash damage reduction. caldari heavys are going to learn very quickly that fluxes kill as they cant get enough armor to survive one like their assault and logi brotheren. gallante heavys are going to scare the ** out of people and will be FOTM since they are going to be running around with over 1000 armor and damage resistance against anything thats actually good at countering that (unlike the caldari version) 1.8 FOTM gallante heavy flux nades caldari/gal scout HMGs minmatar commandos with CR and MDs special mention, logis are going to absolutly LOVE 1.8 as it will be VERY armor heavy and there will be LOADS of people to rep and give ammo to that cant bring ammo themselves. Winmatar logi +1 Sub-Director of The Phoenix Federation**. Shut up or I'll mute you.
Vordred Knight Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 24	Posted - 2014.03.08 23:16:00 - [92] - Quote look at this beautiful piece of artwork in my sig HE'S GONNA GET YA AHAHAHAHAHA!!! For FREEDOM!!!!!!
NEO Arbiter Red Hand Syndicate 57	Posted - 2014.03.08 23:40:00 - [93] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Dauth Jenkins wrote: Looks like it's time to get gud with the plasma cannon... PLC already doesn't OHK tanked heavies with a direct hit. Fully tanked heavies can walk away from direct FORGE GUN hits... (Except for the breach, that's when you know someone reeeaaallyy wants you dead) Tears4Life


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