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Enki Kalgarian Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 17	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:01:00 - [1] - Quote I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2483	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:05:00 - [2] - Quote What are your fittings like? I mean if you just stick to pubs you can brick tank yourself with standard and militia mods on a standard suit and use a standard weapon and do alright, admittedly if your core skills arent up to snuff youll still end up dying but Ive got a cheap fit that costs less than 10k isk a pop and still has about 700ehp Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6724	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:05:00 - [3] - Quote This is why a secondary market its needed. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 870	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:09:00 - [4] - Quote If I can make +110m flying ADSs, no one has any one to blame but themselves and their budgeting skills. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 3 Gêå1; Other DS: 31 Gêå2; Tanks: 33 Gêå2 2/2
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2400	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:09:00 - [5] - Quote I would like to point out your corp tax is at 20%... Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services
Teilka Darkmist 208	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:10:00 - [6] - Quote I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Toro Navajo Defenders of the Helghast Dream 25	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:12:00 - [7] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would like to point out your corp tax is at 20%... oooouch...
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 589	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:14:00 - [8] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit.
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2400	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:16:00 - [9] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 954	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:19:00 - [10] - Quote i run basic suits ALOT and i stomp with them. if your not good in a basic suit then running proto isnt really going to make much of a difference and isnt worth the isk cost... stick to advanced suits if you really need that little bit extra over basic. if your curious about my fits they are all fit all complex extenders in the highs, and fit the best plates you can in the lows, and a compact nanohive for repenishing armor rather then a built in repper. decent HP buffer of 600-700HP on a suit that costs 15-25k and i let my passive skills do the talking instead of relying on prototype to carry me. i pretty much cant ever run out of isk even though i sometimes buy and run 100s of protos at a time and am a part time ADS pilot (wich as we all know is the best way to lose isk fast)

50LD13R Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 24	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:20:00 - [11] - Quote I can make about 1 mil in an hour of ambushes if I run a Frontline with a militia rep tool, and I'm not a high SP player...but I also don't care about my KDR. I did it Monday night!
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 590	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:21:00 - [12] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. Yea but in COD you have somewhat of an even playing field, no noob is going to go into and die 500 times (unless they are just completely new to FPS). But in Dust you see this huge barrier that is insurmountable with no way of gaining SP, or having any enjoyment. When every match is a stomp what do you expect then to do?
el OPERATOR Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:21:00 - [13] - Quote Personally, I think that the overabundance of alts will be what kills this game. That any individual can generate almost 200 different characters will taint every game, every market, every thread, everything. Open-Beta Vet. NPC Corp Independent Contractor. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 167	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:22:00 - [14] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: I would like to point out your corp tax is at 20%... My corp has a tax of .1% I just found you a way of getting an extra 20% payout every battle... Well... That's... Yea, that is really hurting you. P.A.I.R.- Pilot Against Invisible RDVs.
Teilka Darkmist 209	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:22:00 - [15] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. Thing is, I don't think CCP has given up and quit. I think that they're working pretty damn hard at trying to get the game to where it should have been at launch. I think the biggest problem Dust has is that it was launched too early. Maybe if someone had pointed out that this year we actually have a whole month of 514 (May 2014 when you don't use the american dating notation) and they'd used the last year to get all the racial variants into the game whilst it was still in beta. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12923	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:23:00 - [16] - Quote Running out of isk should be a real thing though. I agree there needs to be more ways to prevent going broke entirely (ie secondary market) but if ccp does carbon copy eve running around in proto is going to be much rarer because its not a manufactured item whereas basics are. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Teilka Darkmist 209	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:24:00 - [17] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. The difference is in Dust, most of the time they're not even getting to 500 times as they're not having fun playing the game. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2400	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:27:00 - [18] - Quote Teilka Darkmist wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. The difference is in Dust, most of the time they're not even getting to 500 times as they're not having fun playing the game. Well if they are not having fun they can go play a different game, that's what i would do. Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services
Aziagarth Haus Kinda New here 22	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:29:00 - [19] - Quote Regarding ISK, if CCP gives you starter militia suits with infinite militia equipment, I think people should be able to come to the conclusion that if they are in dire need of ISK they should run suits that cost them comparatively nothing except their K/D ratio.
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 392	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:31:00 - [20] - Quote Yeah, I hardly think isk is the problem. Isk comes very easily if you discipline yourself and learn to do well with basic frames and load outs. You can maintain a very respectable kdr while doing it as well. Get core skills up ASAP and run blueprint and standard gear with an advanced weapon. You should be able to suffer between 10 and 20 deaths before losing isk. If you are dying more than that... It's not the game bro.

low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1221	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:32:00 - [21] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. you're doing it wrong. stop running expensive fits.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3041	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:35:00 - [22] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. My advice applies to both you, and your merc: Get good scrub. No.
Akdhar Saif Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 222	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:35:00 - [23] - Quote My main fit is a militia suit with damage mods, the basic combat rifle (lolOP) and an active scanner. Since using this type of suit I've been saving a lot of ISK but I'm performing the same. If your corp is set to 20% tax tell them to change it or leave. Also, don't play ambush matches. They're complete massacres for noobs like me and you and you will only end up wasting ISK.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1529	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:41:00 - [24] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: If I can make +110m flying ADSs, no one has any one to blame but themselves and their budgeting skills. Your corporation holds how many Districts? Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 518	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:43:00 - [25] - Quote Budgeting is and should be an important factor. That said I think advanced suits and gear should norm with proto being expensive and hard to profit and basic being what you run to make isk. Mlt should be for the new guy making his first millions. There is just little incentive to skill into anything if you can't use it because you constantly have to run mlt gear to make isk. My average suits run from 40-70K and I hover around 200 million. Breaking even shouldn't be the name of the game at advanced level gear. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 590	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:47:00 - [26] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. The difference is in Dust, most of the time they're not even getting to 500 times as they're not having fun playing the game. Well if they are not having fun they can go play a different game, that's what i would do. That's exactly what they do.
Eko Sol 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 88	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:47:00 - [27] - Quote I run 2 suit variants and an third I'm going to try later, Basic min-Logi, ~13.5k ISK 2 militia shield extenders 2 militia armo enchancers 1 standard rail rifle 1 militia nanohive 1 militia rep tool 1 militia locus grenade 1 advanced quantum scanner Militia Amar Heavy, ~3k ISK 1 militia shield recharge rate 1 militia armor rep 1 basic or militia weapon 1 flaylock pistol 1 militia locus I typically, on a bad match, crack 500wp. On a average match I get around 900 and on a great match I crack 1300. I very rarely have an average K/D over the course of an ambush train (10+ matches in a row) of worse than 1.5. On the absolute worst matches ever I might lose like 8 suits and get like 4 kills. I always put a squad up on squad finder so I typically do even better when I get an orbital per match. I make an average of 150k of isk a match as profit. I also get more officer salvage per hour as well. Sometimes I go into my 45k isk AV fit if I think it's appropriate and I see some skilled forge gunners on the field AND i'm on a map with a supply depot to change out. That is about the only time I do this to help the team anhialate tank spam or a python or two. I mean, it's awesome getting the final swarm shot on 3 pythons in the same match. Lately, I might be burning out and have been getting more frustrated than normal but that doesn't change my numbers I put up. They are still pertty good. I have a W/L with random squadmates of over 1.5 and over a 1.0 k/d per week (I've been exploring the basic laser rifle so....yeah) and an ish ton of ISK, WP/SP, and salvage. I think I got all 18 of my Balac AR from Ambush. Ten matches take less than an hour and half and so that is about 1.15 mil of ISK. So if you do 30 matches of ambush like this a week then you'll make over 3 mil of isk and then send half that to an alt and use the rest for your higher teir fits for factionals. I have corp mates that make over 10mil of ISK grinding ambush a day. That's sick. But when that persons goal is to have a 1000 of their proto fitted tanks and drop ships each then that is what it takes. If you are running out of isk then I have to say that you aren't playing the game correctly. If your goal is a really good K/D then you can take a proto logi, stack precision enhancers, uplink variants, and armor modules with a midrange/close range weapon of your choice. Drop all of the uplinks and run near the red in the hills and take out any of the scouts that try to make their way to you. You might go a bunch of matches 0/0 with 200 wp or a few that are 2/0 or 3/0 with 1k wp.
cedz636 Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 134	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:49:00 - [28] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: This is why a secondary market its needed. aka PVE Rust in Peace
Enki Kalgarian Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 17	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:50:00 - [29] - Quote Why don't they let us buy Isk at the market just like we can buy Aurum there now that would be good.
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2405	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:53:00 - [30] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: Why don't they let us buy Isk at the market just like we can buy Aurum there now that would be good. Why buy ISK, damn near everything you can buy with ISK you can buy with AUR Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services

Rowdy Railgunner Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 346	Posted - 2014.02.05 22:53:00 - [31] - Quote 50LD13R wrote: I can make about 1 mil in an hour of ambushes if I run a Frontline with a militia rep tool, and I'm not a high SP player...but I also don't care about my KDR. I did it Monday night! 1 mil an hour in a BPO suit? What do you do, take 30 minute breaks between matches?
Teilka Darkmist 211	Posted - 2014.02.05 23:01:00 - [32] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. The difference is in Dust, most of the time they're not even getting to 500 times as they're not having fun playing the game. Well if they are not having fun they can go play a different game, that's what i would do. The problem comes when there's not enough players left having fun to keep the game going. That said I've found going back to starter fits brings the fun back. Might not work for new players but it seems to be working for me. Now maybe I'll see about dropping some BPO's in there as well. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1840	Posted - 2014.02.05 23:06:00 - [33] - Quote The only reason the ISK factor is a "factor" at the moment is the lack of income you get as merc. As a lone merc you currently only really have 1 option, Public Matches. You can make your money stretch further with factional warfare but you need the money to stretch first. Over in the EvE side of things New Eden is veritable smorgasbord of Income methods. You can mine PvE style, get some resources sell them on the Market You can run Escort for Miners You can go PvE against the Jovians for Blueprint Schematics and the like. You can buy Blueprint and Materials and manufacture goods for sale on the open market. You can complete missions for Concord You can claim bounties You can tax Planetary Miners You can be a Mercanry for Hire In EvE, if you can do it, it will probably make you money. That's the point. DUST needs more ways of getting income, from Player Markets, NPC Contracts, Merc Contracts, Bounties, everything. Until then the best way to make money is to get the cheapest suit you can. I have a frontline fit that costs 10,000 ISK per 100 suits. Every pub matche pays enough for me to field 2000 of these suits. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 514	Posted - 2014.02.05 23:11:00 - [34] - Quote Where are they gonna go? Back to COD?? My Channel : Valhalla South
Teilka Darkmist 213	Posted - 2014.02.05 23:54:00 - [35] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Where are they gonna go? Back to COD?? Does it matter where they go? They're not going to be here boosting the numbers in Dust and convincing CCP that it's worth their time to improve things. When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y 384	Posted - 2014.02.06 00:43:00 - [36] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. running free suits is the easiest way and you can make 60+mil a week you can also play eve and trade between the two
SPACE SYPHILIS Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.02.06 00:50:00 - [37] - Quote How is it I have been here since close Beta and I have over 200 Million ISK and still making ISK. I believe it is part poor isk payout and part player. Isk payout needs to be raised by at least 50% IMO. Players need to be able to play, have fun, and still make ISK.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4410	Posted - 2014.02.06 00:59:00 - [38] - Quote I mostly run free and/or cheap fittings, and I do well for myself with them, so I'm pretty sure they don't suck all that much. If you're willing to put some thought into how you manage your money, it's easy to make a profit.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution Public Disorder. 4745	Posted - 2014.02.06 01:04:00 - [39] - Quote The ISK factor in Dust will kill it? Have you even played Eve?! > GÇ£I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.GÇ¥ -Oscar Wilde
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 860	Posted - 2014.02.06 01:06:00 - [40] - Quote You must equip a lot of proto things and lose them lol But um, you can always run BPOs, Starter, and militia/standard gear to make isk. I have a suit that costs 6k and ALWAYS makes a profit. Even if I lose 13 suits.

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1531	Posted - 2014.02.06 01:19:00 - [41] - Quote OP you need to adjust your fittings to your earnings. I have 75,000,000 ISK and proto everything but i run ADV/STD because that's the only way i can make money. On average, with STD i make money, with ADV i break even. I support SP rollover.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 878	Posted - 2014.02.06 01:34:00 - [42] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: If I can make +110m flying ADSs, no one has any one to blame but themselves and their budgeting skills. Your corporation holds how many Districts? Of which I see no ISK from apart from what I make in PC fights (which I only recently have been part of). I've earned most of my money in pubs, only >10m is from PC. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 3 Gêå1; Other DS: 31 Gêå2; Tanks: 33 Gêå2 2/2
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 247	Posted - 2014.02.06 01:37:00 - [43] - Quote It's literally impossible to run out of ISK in this game, to the point where it could keep you from playing the game. Stop bitching and don't run what you can't afford to lose. If you've gone ahead and done that anyway, the consequence is that you get to run starter/MLT/STD fits for like a week. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 720	Posted - 2014.02.06 01:39:00 - [44] - Quote Can we have P2P market already? Tanks 514! Cheap, fast, Indestructible and you see tankers telling it's balanced... Just makes you want to quit this BS
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 32	Posted - 2014.02.06 02:12:00 - [45] - Quote Hmm, this running out if ISK thing is a little strange... 20% tax rate is insane though, fundraising for PC should be maybe 10%, anything more and you're likely getting scammed, as that's coming from your before expenses income, so it's likely halving your profit margin. Note: if your corp isn't taxing to fund PC (either current or upcoming) the ISK is going nowhere and you should be asking serious questions. Just my 2 ISK but concentrate in your core skills first. Shields and armour first, PG/CPU second, try and get a militia Uplink on a starter fit (You'll need that extra PG/CPU for that), I use a BPO standard weapon but if you don't have one it's up to you if you want to stay with the milita or add your weapon of choice, your priority should be well placed uplinks, and hacking anything you can, less on killing. Well placed uplinks and getting out to those un-guarded outside objectives can place you highly on the leaderboard for a suit that costs only 370 ISK. "The right man in the wrong place can make all of the difference..." - The Gman If you're rolling with a good squad going on scanner duty can be a role in an of itself (as the cheap scanner wears off quickly) and can net a fair amount of WP. Also ran with a guy using a BPO Assault fit with Adv rep tool who locked himself to our heavies ass. He placed higher on the leader-board than the Heavy because for every 50wp kill the heavy got he was averaging about 90 (guardian points, triage points, defend order). I have suits and builds entirely based around WP just to get myself as high on the leaderboard as I can without spending a lot of ISK (I don't use ****** exploits, I just pre-emptively put nanos in high combat areas that I know sooner or later people will need, scan everything, SL so I can put the defend order on the Logi repping the heavy, place uplinks where I know blues will instinctively go for etc). Hmm... never mind... don't do what I said... I dont want to place 2nd bacuse you started doing this too.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 175	Posted - 2014.02.06 02:19:00 - [46] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. I love the ISK factor, it is a big part of what keeps me in the game. You have to budget your resources and that makes it fun, just like not having unlimited magazine sizes make the game better.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2026	Posted - 2014.02.06 02:35:00 - [47] - Quote Building a suit to match your exact needs is one of the reasons I'm still playing this game. Fitting out a suit that's economically viable is really important, and there are a few tricks that will help you build the suit that's right for you. First thing to do is keep tabs on your average ISK income per battle, and then divide that by your average number of deaths per battle. The number you get is what your suits should cost if you're looking to at least break even. If you can get lower than that you'll make more money, though. You can cut suit costs drastically by using militia mods. I cant think of a mod that's actually worse than std aside from higher fitting costs so if you can fit militia gear use it. Militia weapons are worse than STD weapons, but generally a cheap suit won't lean on the side arm that much so its an easy way to trim some fat without really hurting overall efficacy all that much. Try to kill it all you want CCP, I still <3 my laser.
Shiruba Ryou 202	Posted - 2014.02.06 02:44:00 - [48] - Quote Mercs... running out of money? If mercs can't sustain themselves in this game with the economy of a mom and pop general store I'd hate to see how you handle your finances in real life. I give ISK away very rarely unless I either know the person or I'm getting something out of it either directly, or indirectly without the receiver's knowledge. Running into non-useful poor mercenaries is one of the many scenarios that turn me away from squading with many new people. Though I've been getting better recently and loosening up. ... My squading practices not my ISK. Back savages +_+ Now.... I ain't saying I'm an ISK horder. But I ain't f*ckin' with no broke soldier. "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1529	Posted - 2014.02.06 03:04:00 - [49] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: If I can make +110m flying ADSs, no one has any one to blame but themselves and their budgeting skills. Your corporation holds how many Districts? Of which I see no ISK from apart from what I make in PC fights (which I only recently have been part of). I've earned most of my money in pubs, only >10m is from PC. Only more than 10m of it is from PC? Poor little rich kid. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 288	Posted - 2014.02.06 03:25:00 - [50] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. Sounds like you don't know how to handle money in game, I haven't spent any real money on this game and I have plenty of isk PLENTY!! The starter fits are there for a reason, It's not really that hard for people to save up isk. You don't have to use expensive stuff all the time in pub battles. Don't make it easy for them, take a few down with you.

LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 179	Posted - 2014.02.06 03:37:00 - [51] - Quote To me it almost seems as if Isk payouts for pubs have been nerfed again. I usually do fairly decent in matches. I always get somewhere around 1000 or higher war points when running with a decent squad and I get a fair amount of kills with not too many deaths. However, I can remember a few months ago, getting like 1200 war points and getting way over 200k Isk and sometimes over 300k. Starting three weeks ago, I began to notice that I could get around the same WP I usually do, but the Isk payouts were vastly less (usually by around 50k+). Going to follow the advice in here and stop running full load out logi suits constantly. Terribly expensive. Going to revert to majority basic and sometimes advanced suits for awhile until the Isk builds way back up again. It's a trap! In this patch we can't repel firepower of that magnitude! - Admiral Ackbar would say in ambush w Nyain San
Enki Kalgarian Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 18	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:00:00 - [52] - Quote da GAND wrote: Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. Sounds like you don't know how to handle money in game, I haven't spent any real money on this game and I have plenty of isk PLENTY!! The starter fits are there for a reason, It's not really that hard for people to save up isk. You don't have to use expensive stuff all the time in pub battles. That has been over the last two years
Infine Sentinel Better Hide R Die 648	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:03:00 - [53] - Quote Militia suit Militia AR One complex damage mod Fitting costs around 5k to 6k and its almost as good as a Pro AR Pie. Forum warrior level 231423423
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1780	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:21:00 - [54] - Quote how do you run out of isk? I mean sometimes you need to swallow your pride hop in a standard suit and go 20/9 against proto stompers instead of 20/1 let kdr go people. if you run proto till you are broke you shouldn't be running it.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 882	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:25:00 - [55] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: If I can make +110m flying ADSs, no one has any one to blame but themselves and their budgeting skills. Your corporation holds how many Districts? Of which I see no ISK from apart from what I make in PC fights (which I only recently have been part of). I've earned most of my money in pubs, only <10m is from PC. Only more than 10m of it is from PC? Poor little rich kid. <10m. Pardon my math grammar. Also, would you like some toast with that "You Jelly?" Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 3 Gêå1; Other DS: 31 Gêå2; Tanks: 33 Gêå2 2/2
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2053	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:46:00 - [56] - Quote Maybe OP should join a PC corp and receive a salary based their on contbrituation to the PC battles. [ERA] Pays a salary of 30 million ISK a week + whatever they make from outside contracts to its PC mercenaries. Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1533	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:47:00 - [57] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: <10m. Pardon my math grammar. Also, would you like some toast with that "You Jelly?" Awwww, how cute, he thinks I'm jealous. It isn't about jealousy, it is about the free ride the PC corporations have been getting. It is un-New Eden and totally risk free. The only people who don't see this are the ones farming it. Please, by all means, continue clearly illustrate the disconnect between the farmers and the rest of us. ******* tools. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1479	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:50:00 - [58] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: If I can make +110m flying ADSs, no one has any one to blame but themselves and their budgeting skills. I was about to agree with you... then I saw your corp and aliance. I mean really bro, in your corp with all your disctricts you can afford to go negative everyday of the week and still have 150 million isk left over for yourself.... not including other higher ups in your corp. gtfo Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 612	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:54:00 - [59] - Quote I find this a bit surprising.... I've been playing for a long time too... I have maybe 270 million isk in the bank and ALWAYS run advanced suits... Unless you're playing too many isk sinks like FW or PC then you shouldn't have any issues - just review your fits... you don't need to run proto suits in public games - they just aren't profitable... just make a calculation on how much your fits cost to play, how much you earn on average in a game and then try and not die beyond that threshold... for ex these are my numbers: - Advanced fit - 35K Average payout per match 250-350K ISK That means if I die over ten times I'm not making money that match... usually I don't so I make money.. try and find a suit that's cheaper or change your playstyle...
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1479	Posted - 2014.02.06 14:58:00 - [60] - Quote the OP is talking about new players and players in lower teir corps. If you are: Sever true blood team players ahrende mercenaries burgerrz nyain sain.... etc or anyother big corp with aliances in PC, shut the **** up. Each of your members get millions upon millions of isk each month, on top of the isk for winning battles and pub stomping like little bitches. so, if your in one of these corps, of course you will never run out of money. You can go full proto every match...well in fact you do go full proto every match and still havr millions of cash left over. I aint hatin' on you for being rich... but don't look at the poor guy and say "start your own multi-billion isk corp and then you'll have money"... Or "run full proto get good scrub"... the game just doesn't work like that. Even running full militia gear you can hardly make money because you die repeatedly to proto stompers like you guys and go 9/17 or 7/12. So, in order to win these guys use adv gear but in the end go negative. therefore, your average dust player is left out of competetive play because they have to choose between going full proto and winning or losing terrible to make a few dollars.... Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça

Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2428	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:12:00 - [61] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: the OP is talking about new players and players in lower teir corps. If you are: Sever true blood team players ahrende mercenaries burgerrz nyain sain.... etc or anyother big corp with aliances in PC, shut the ** up. Each of your members get millions upon millions of isk each month, on top of the isk for winning battles and pub stomping like little bitches. so, if your in one of these corps, of course you will never run out of money. You can go full proto every match...well in fact you do go full proto every match and still havr millions of cash left over. I aint hatin' on you for being rich... but don't look at the poor guy and say "start your own multi-billion isk corp and then you'll have money"... Or "run full proto get good scrub"... the game just doesn't work like that. Even running full militia gear you can hardly make money because you die repeatedly to proto stompers like you guys and go 9/17 or 7/12. So, in order to win these guys use adv gear but in the end go negative. therefore, your average dust player is left out of competetive play because they have to choose between going full proto and winning or losing terrible to make a few dollars.... my advice to you average dust players, run BPO (if you have any), milita, and standard Caldari and galente suits... tank it out with complex shield extenders and basic amor plates, std AR, CR, Scr or RR, run equipment. if your suit costs you more than 9,000 isk then its not worth it. If you die more than 5 times, just stay in the red line. If your red lined stay in the MCC... yeah its a *** move but would you rather losing and going negative with your isk? Wh not start your own corp, need to start somewhere it's not easy and there is no instant gratification but it is possible. Every corp started at 0 Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services
IG8T8 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 3	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:13:00 - [62] - Quote noob story; player gets stomped player buys better gear player still gets stomped player runs out of isk I run a mix of militia and basic gear, the isk cost is ~7k (ive got some bpos that make it cheaper); Amarr Assault A-1 militia shield extender militia shield extender scrambler rifle militia smg militia locus grenade compact nanohive militia armour plates gives me 549 ehp at my skills (~4million) most my sp is in scrambler rifle and core armour/shield & fitting. I maintain a +ve kdr and w/l. Compact hive is like a 2nd life if you get beat up but survive. if you want more points use an injector repper or link in the equip slot. i also run a amarr basic logi with hive/link or needle/repper combi depending on what the battle needs. I run a mix of lone wolf and squads depending on who is around. I know the pretty maps well. its fun. embrace it. get better. as eve pilots will tell you; don't field what you cant afford.
Sgt Buttscratch 1458	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 - [63] - Quote how can that this even be a thread. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE has BPO MLT suits, frontline, medic, sniper, AA. You can build kamikaze RE suit for 3k, you can build a MLT heavy with AR for 3k, MLT scout for 3k. Buy a sica or soma and fit it for 60-90k. You can never actually go bust. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2395	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 - [64] - Quote Basic fits can cost like 10k if that Average payout is 200k I dunno how you can make losses tbh Intelligence is OP
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 311	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:37:00 - [65] - Quote Guys go and play any of the other big shooters like Battlefield 3 / 4 , CoD etc... people die fast in those games, but even a brand new character can kill easily. The biggest selling point of DUST is ALSO its biggest weakness to new players. Actually having to buy your suits weapons and equipment. Without even going into balance and suit disparity - the fact that you lose money or your lose your weapons if you die is going to put a lot of people off. This game is for a niche market just like EVE was. The problem for me is, after playing this - I cant seriously enjoy games like Battlefield and CoD etc.. anymore lol.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 178	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:45:00 - [66] - Quote I can understand complaining that you are always going broke, I don't understand complaining that it is a problem with the game, it IS the game.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 68	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:55:00 - [67] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: Why don't they let us buy Isk at the market just like we can buy Aurum there now that would be good. An Eve Online plex costs $20 US. If you buy 6, they cost $105 US. Sometimes they have sales. A plex sells in the Eve Online market for about 600M Eve isk. A private exchange will convert those Eve isk to about 1/10th as much Dust isk. So, if you're willing to spend $20 US. you can get ~60M Dust isk. If you're willing to spend $105 US, you can get about 360M Dust isk. A plex can be sold on the Eve Online market, or used to pay for a month of Eve Online game time. More about buying plex: https://secure.eveonline.com/PLEX/ More about the player run, private currency exchanges: this Dust thread and this Market Discussion thread -Gyn Wallace/Min Lo
50LD13R Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 28	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:58:00 - [68] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: 50LD13R wrote: I can make about 1 mil in an hour of ambushes if I run a Frontline with a militia rep tool, and I'm not a high SP player...but I also don't care about my KDR. I did it Monday night! 1 mil an hour in a BPO suit? What do you do, take 30 minute breaks between matches? I'm just typically running solo if I do ambush, and that's the least I've made. If I find an ambush squad I average 1.5-2 mil, just don't find squads often when I'm in the mood to grind.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2422	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:06:00 - [69] - Quote I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1533	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:08:00 - [70] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta

Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 427	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:10:00 - [71] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Enki Kalgarian wrote: Why don't they let us buy Isk at the market just like we can buy Aurum there now that would be good. An Eve Online plex costs $20 US. If you buy 6, they cost $105 US. Sometimes they have sales. A plex sells in the Eve Online market for about 600M Eve isk. A private exchange will convert those Eve isk to about 1/10th as much Dust isk. So, if you're willing to spend $20 US. you can get ~60M Dust isk. If you're willing to spend $105 US, you can get about 360M Dust isk. A plex can be sold on the Eve Online market, or used to pay for a month of Eve Online game time. More about buying plex: https://secure.eveonline.com/PLEX/ More about the player run, private currency exchanges: this Dust thread and this Market Discussion thread -Gyn Wallace/Min Lo bump this Who wants some?
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 848	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:46:00 - [72] - Quote I've made 250,000,000 isk just running advanced suits so it's baffling that people are running low You have 3 solutions 1. Stop running proto 2. Join a corp with a lower tax 3. Don't die as much
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1481	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:26:00 - [73] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: D legendary hero wrote: the OP is talking about new players and players in lower teir corps. If you are: Sever true blood team players ahrende mercenaries burgerrz nyain sain.... etc or anyother big corp with aliances in PC, shut the ** up. Each of your members get millions upon millions of isk each month, on top of the isk for winning battles and pub stomping like little bitches. so, if your in one of these corps, of course you will never run out of money. You can go full proto every match...well in fact you do go full proto every match and still havr millions of cash left over. I aint hatin' on you for being rich... but don't look at the poor guy and say "start your own multi-billion isk corp and then you'll have money"... Or "run full proto get good scrub"... the game just doesn't work like that. Even running full militia gear you can hardly make money because you die repeatedly to proto stompers like you guys and go 9/17 or 7/12. So, in order to win these guys use adv gear but in the end go negative. therefore, your average dust player is left out of competetive play because they have to choose between going full proto and winning or losing terrible to make a few dollars.... my advice to you average dust players, run BPO (if you have any), milita, and standard Caldari and galente suits... tank it out with complex shield extenders and basic amor plates, std AR, CR, Scr or RR, run equipment. if your suit costs you more than 9,000 isk then its not worth it. If you die more than 5 times, just stay in the red line. If your red lined stay in the MCC... yeah its a *** move but would you rather losing and going negative with your isk? Wh not start your own corp, need to start somewhere it's not easy and there is no instant gratification but it is possible. Every corp started at 0 I could because I have money. but, if you hve no isk, you'll have to pay out 1,000,000 isk. plus, who would want to join your corp since other than the megacorps, no other corporation has real benefits to offer mercs that you dnt personally know. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1481	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:29:00 - [74] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: I've made 250,000,000 isk just running advanced suits so it's baffling that people are running low You have 3 solutions 1. Stop running proto 2. Join a corp with a lower tax 3. Don't die as much I got 3 words for you: unholylegion of darkstar your in a megacorporation so yeah much of what your saying is void... however, I will commend you by saying point number 1 can help. point number 3 i cant realy say much about, because if they arent running proto, and your running full proto or their are tanks everywhere the only not to die is to MCC/red line camp.... which is boring. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1481	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:38:00 - [75] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic fits can cost like 10k if that Average payout is 200k I dunno how you can make losses tbh average pay out for 1000 + WP of the top 5 players is 189k isk+, If you go 42/0 and got 2000+ WP you get 250k-300k+ isk. for 900WP or less you normally get 150k ISK and below. So, you are correct, If I get 1000+ WP and rank as or between 1st and 3rd place, losing 0-1 suits I make max profit. However, if the average new player is running STD gear, gets 4 kills and dies 17 times to tanks and proto pub stompers they lose 170K isk garunteed. since 4/17 isn't exactly going to generate you the most war points you will probably end up with around 100K isk at best, probably 89k isk. 10k * 17 = 170k ISK loss 100K ISK gain your profit = 0 your loss = 70K this is for your average new player. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1910	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:52:00 - [76] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. Improved NPE (helping learn stronger resource management skills from day one) Full array of Militia variants of gear (opens the door to practice and experimentation with a lower SP and ISK overhead) MLT "Play Packs" with large quantities of gear, it's weak but it'll keep you going for several hundred deaths. (Honestly MLT BPOs that are diverse would be even better and wouldn't cause actual damage to the in game econ as it stands, but I know some folks at CCP disagree with me here so I'm not holding my breath for this option... even so having to work a little harder to make the in game econ shine while retaining a higher playerbase seems like a net win to me). PvE - Again higher player base + way to make ISK that won't require getting new players/players with thin wallets to get proto stomped by corp squads before they can run their real fits again. In game/player/secondary market - Even an early version of this that is purely players putting up contracts among themselves to exchange salvage etc would help alleviate ISK bottlenecks. Right now nearly everyone is sitting on gear they can't use by the end of their first month in the game. Enhanced matchmaking - Part of the struggle matchmaking faces is the lower numbers once the player population is divided up into sub-groups. We have several game types, and then the matchmaking has to divide still further. Increased population wouldn't solve everything but it would help and more MLT BPOs as well as a full range of MLT gear would aid in player pop/retention as would PvE and a more robust NPE. Granulated changes > Sweeping alterations - Players burn through ISK faster every time something is changed in a major way. There's testing to be done, there are new bugs and exploits out there, and your old experience about what you can and cannot do in your primary fit no longer applies... meaning you die more. Compounding that there are changes which make players no longer interested in using a given type or configuration of gear meaning that anyone who tries to manage their resources such that they have a stockpile of what they use will find themselves sitting on assets they no longer have a context to employ but cannot sell either (no Player Market as of yet). If patches start focusing more on gradual changes, on polish rather than complete reinvention, players will burn less ISK during each patching cycle because on average they will have less reason to spend so high. Getting the above changes into the game, even if it takes several layers/patches to fully implement some/all of them, would help greatly with ISK issues and would further address several other aspects as well.. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2441	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:57:00 - [77] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: D legendary hero wrote: the OP is talking about new players and players in lower teir corps. If you are: Sever true blood team players ahrende mercenaries burgerrz nyain sain.... etc or anyother big corp with aliances in PC, shut the ** up. Each of your members get millions upon millions of isk each month, on top of the isk for winning battles and pub stomping like little bitches. so, if your in one of these corps, of course you will never run out of money. You can go full proto every match...well in fact you do go full proto every match and still havr millions of cash left over. I aint hatin' on you for being rich... but don't look at the poor guy and say "start your own multi-billion isk corp and then you'll have money"... Or "run full proto get good scrub"... the game just doesn't work like that. Even running full militia gear you can hardly make money because you die repeatedly to proto stompers like you guys and go 9/17 or 7/12. So, in order to win these guys use adv gear but in the end go negative. therefore, your average dust player is left out of competetive play because they have to choose between going full proto and winning or losing terrible to make a few dollars.... my advice to you average dust players, run BPO (if you have any), milita, and standard Caldari and galente suits... tank it out with complex shield extenders and basic amor plates, std AR, CR, Scr or RR, run equipment. if your suit costs you more than 9,000 isk then its not worth it. If you die more than 5 times, just stay in the red line. If your red lined stay in the MCC... yeah its a *** move but would you rather losing and going negative with your isk? Wh not start your own corp, need to start somewhere it's not easy and there is no instant gratification but it is possible. Every corp started at 0 I could because I have money. but, if you hve no isk, you'll have to pay out 1,000,000 isk. plus, who would want to join your corp since other than the megacorps, no other corporation has real benefits to offer mercs that you dnt personally know. You think new casual players are making spreadsheet of corps with what benefits they will get when they join them? No new players will get in a squad with a random person, when asked if they want to join a corp they will even if they have no clue what the corp is about. You are not going to be at the top of the food chain right away you have to work for it. Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 115	Posted - 2014.02.06 21:24:00 - [78] - Quote if you cant find a balance in saving isk and running high end gear then dont run the high end gear its that simple DUST offers so many ways to gain isk from grinding - thieving so how the hell can you go broke? (starter fits) everyone has access to these tools starter fits can get you LP, isk, hatemail, and SP same as militia gear if you want to run something different but cheap LEARN HOW TO GRIND if it isn't in you it will never be period Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 314	Posted - 2014.02.07 00:02:00 - [79] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). This is the biggest worry I have if we actually get a player supply / demand market. I don't think most people really quite understand the implications of what may well happen. I would imagine CCP have spoke to their economist they have working on EVE because it will be a huge upset if even advanced modules become totally unsustainable through general play. Unless this is CCP`s goal! Its a conspiracy! But no on a serious note - it will be something the DEVS have to think about if and when it comes.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 314	Posted - 2014.02.07 00:08:00 - [80] - Quote OH yea and I could be mistaken but I swear I read at one point this guy was in a corp with a whopping 20% tax rate! That's pretty high by EVE standards, by DUST standards that is daylight robbery.

VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 36	Posted - 2014.02.07 00:17:00 - [81] - Quote man if your corp tax is higher then 10% you are being scamd . leave now dont look back . isk is very easy to make ' get core up asap . will turn frontline suits into good suits
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1913	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:07:00 - [82] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 143	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:13:00 - [83] - Quote The risk/reward of making and losing ISK is what makes EVE and Dust different and fun. Losing ISK sucks. I've been playing EVE for 4.5 years and my heart still races when I'm about to get into a fight. No other game can give you that adrenaline rush like EVE and Dust can because few other games have real risk. So the ISK factor is what will keep this game going, not kill it. Also, a decent advanced suit should only cost 30-40k. If you can't make money off that then I'm not sure what you are doing wrong. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Turtle Hermit Roshi D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 84	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:59:00 - [84] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: i run basic suits ALOT and i stomp with them. if your not good in a basic suit then running proto isnt really going to make much of a difference and isnt worth the isk cost... stick to advanced suits if you really need that little bit extra over basic. if your curious about my fits they are all fit all complex extenders in the highs, and fit the best plates you can in the lows, and a compact nanohive for repenishing armor rather then a built in repper. decent HP buffer of 600-700HP on a suit that costs 15-25k and i let my passive skills do the talking instead of relying on prototype to carry me. i pretty much cant ever run out of isk even though i sometimes buy and run 100s of protos at a time and am a part time ADS pilot (wich as we all know is the best way to lose isk fast) ditto yea i run a std sentinel heavy std hmg with adv modules ad stomp with it did some of my best games withthat fit yes i scream KA-ME-HA-MEHAAAAAA when i forge muthafuckas the Turtle Hermit: Professional Heavy
PAXTON HAILFIRE Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:16:00 - [85] - Quote Been playing 6 months or so. Overall KDR of like 0.42. Thats zero point four two. Took me 6 weeks to not pull back on the stick to look up and vice versa. I have 27 million in ISK. I suck and I have ISK. Run adv caldari assault suit with enhanced shields and a complex damage mod, grenade of choice, basic sidearm, enhanced armor and repper, with GeK or Duvolle. Go about 4:6:4. Nothing to brag about but I have fun. Sometimes I go 1:0:7 or 7:0:1. Cant fit a nano so save cash there! Doubt i have an optimal fit and I make money with subpar skills. Not sure how you dont make isk.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 306	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:28:00 - [86] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. Are you implying that there is fun to be had in this broken ads game of endless promises that amount to nothing and the never ending grind of earning SP simply to compete with 30million SP beta players, who will maintain a skill gap over you that you will NEVER be able to close. I can has ISK
Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 69	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:34:00 - [87] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Where are they gonna go? Back to COD?? No, MAG. ooohhh....too soon? ;) Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 70	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:44:00 - [88] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: 30million SP beta players, who will maintain a skill gap over you that you will NEVER be able to close. simply incorrect. Skills max, and after that there's nothing more to be gained. The gap does close. Same stupid incorrect BS we get in Eve-O. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1536	Posted - 2014.02.07 16:52:00 - [89] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross Ok, so maybe I should've addressed it as being bad for the player market, though I thought by now, everyone was using the terms interchangeably. However, it still means little since NPCs will likely only be selling things like boosters and AUR items anyway. Yes, in Eve, NPCs buy/sell items, however the items bought and sold by NPCs aren't the items that see the most volume on the markets. NPCs sell things like BPOs, I-Hub Upgrades, Reactions and Trade Goods. They don't sell things like Ammunition, Destroyers or modules for ships which are the items that would be analogous to the items that players will be selling when we get the player market. Imagine the Gallente Ice Interdiction, now imagine it wasn't Ice being interdicted, but everything on the entire ******* market, that is what the Dust market will be like once we get it if something isn't done about the broken faucet that PC corps have been getting drunk on for 2/3's of a year now. Everyone who wasn't suckling at the teat of PC will be relegated to using STD equipment at best, if not from the beginning, it won't take long before their ISK reserves are depleted buying overpriced gear from the stupid rich farmers. Remember people, you heard it first from Alaika. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1915	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:05:00 - [90] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross Ok, so maybe I should've addressed it as being bad for the player market, though I thought by now, everyone was using the terms interchangeably. However, it still means little since NPCs will likely only be selling things like boosters and AUR items anyway. Yes, in Eve, NPCs buy/sell items, however the items bought and sold by NPCs aren't the items that see the most volume on the markets. NPCs sell things like BPOs, I-Hub Upgrades, Reactions and Trade Goods. They don't sell things like Ammunition, Destroyers or modules for ships which are the items that would be analogous to the items that players will be selling when we get the player market. Imagine the Gallente Ice Interdiction, now imagine it wasn't Ice being interdicted, but everything on the entire ******* market, that is what the Dust market will be like once we get it if something isn't done about the broken faucet that PC corps have been getting drunk on for 2/3's of a year now. Everyone who wasn't suckling at the teat of PC will be relegated to using STD equipment at best, if not from the beginning, it won't take long before their ISK reserves are depleted buying overpriced gear from the stupid rich farmers. Remember people, you heard it first from Alaika. That's a bit of a leap. It sounds like you are, in essence, addressing the player market as if it were Null Sec in EVE but without any PvE or player production elements present. If CCP opens up a market in that fashion I agree things would be in a very bad spot, but can you honestly picture CCP with their decade plus of exp with EVE deciding to not only open a Dust market in that manner but eventually integrate it with EVE:O? CCP is new to making console FPS, but they are not new to economics, that's one of their hallmarks. Ignoring the materials supply chain is an oversight and one I do not believe CCP will make. If all those goods suddenly go to player created there will have to be a method for their creation, much like mining + invention + production in EVE. PC is a flood of ISK but it isn't, nor will it be, the entire in game economy. I don't mean to downplay PC, it needs a rework no doubt, but it is far from all encompassing. In EVE, which is the full fledged example of an econ maintained by CCP, some of the wealthiest characters are 100% non-combat, and there are many quite successfully characters who don't ever set foot into Null Sec despite how much of the physical game space Null encompasses. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say we'll see something of like kind in Dust once the full market is up and running, but even if we don't there is no changelog that I'm aware of stating CCP will remove seeding of all current non-aur gear and transfer it on a purely ISK supported basis to the PC Corps. Doing so could be game killing and I just don't see anyone signing off on that. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1542	Posted - 2014.02.08 01:42:00 - [91] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross Ok, so maybe I should've addressed it as being bad for the player market, though I thought by now, everyone was using the terms interchangeably. However, it still means little since NPCs will likely only be selling things like boosters and AUR items anyway. Yes, in Eve, NPCs buy/sell items, however the items bought and sold by NPCs aren't the items that see the most volume on the markets. NPCs sell things like BPOs, I-Hub Upgrades, Reactions and Trade Goods. They don't sell things like Ammunition, Destroyers or modules for ships which are the items that would be analogous to the items that players will be selling when we get the player market. Imagine the Gallente Ice Interdiction, now imagine it wasn't Ice being interdicted, but everything on the entire ******* market, that is what the Dust market will be like once we get it if something isn't done about the broken faucet that PC corps have been getting drunk on for 2/3's of a year now. Everyone who wasn't suckling at the teat of PC will be relegated to using STD equipment at best, if not from the beginning, it won't take long before their ISK reserves are depleted buying overpriced gear from the stupid rich farmers. Remember people, you heard it first from Alaika. That's a bit of a leap. It sounds like you are, in essence, addressing the player market as if it were Null Sec in EVE but without any PvE or player production elements present. If CCP opens up a market in that fashion I agree things would be in a very bad spot, but can you honestly picture CCP with their decade plus of exp with EVE deciding to not only open a Dust market in that manner but eventually integrate it with EVE:O? CCP is new to making console FPS, but they are not new to economics, that's one of their hallmarks. Ignoring the materials supply chain is an oversight and one I do not believe CCP will make. If all those goods suddenly go to player created there will have to be a method for their creation, much like mining + invention + production in EVE. PC is a flood of ISK but it isn't, nor will it be, the entire in game economy. I don't mean to downplay PC, it needs a rework no doubt, but it is far from all encompassing. In EVE, which is the full fledged example of an econ maintained by CCP, some of the wealthiest characters are 100% non-combat, and there are many quite successfully characters who don't ever set foot into Null Sec despite how much of the physical game space Null encompasses. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say we'll see something of like kind in Dust once the full market is up and running, but even if we don't there is no changelog that I'm aware of stating CCP will remove seeding of all current non-aur gear and transfer it on a purely ISK supported basis to the PC Corps. Doing so could be game killing and I just don't see anyone signing off on that. 0.02 ISK Cross You have seen how few items that there truly are on the market right? Where are PvE or player production elements on the roadmap? Did you forget that not too long ago, everyone was up in arms saying that CCP was going to remove all BPOs full stop? Until we see hard facts on PvE and player production elements that aren't "They're not in the game", we have no choice but to assume that when we get a player market, they still won't be here. Especially if we get it anytime soon like many are wanting. I want to believe that the markets won't be absolutely dominated by PC corporations, but until there is something done about the broken Passive faucet that they are sitting on, I can't. Even with "mining + invention + production", it still wouldn't surprise me to see them put up buy orders for all of the items necessary and for them to use those items to dominate the market with combat-required items. Believe me, I want to believe that it won't happen, I just can't help but have the unsettling feeling that it will. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 447	Posted - 2014.02.08 07:36:00 - [92] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: i run basic suits ALOT and i stomp with them. if your not good in a basic suit then running proto isnt really going to make much of a difference and isnt worth the isk cost... stick to advanced suits if you really need that little bit extra over basic. if your curious about my fits they are all fit all complex extenders in the highs, and fit the best plates you can in the lows, and a compact nanohive for repenishing armor rather then a built in repper. decent HP buffer of 600-700HP on a suit that costs 15-25k and i let my passive skills do the talking instead of relying on prototype to carry me. i pretty much cant ever run out of isk even though i sometimes buy and run 100s of protos at a time and am a part time ADS pilot (wich as we all know is the best way to lose isk fast) While I don't approve of the brick tanking, indeed. Proto is overrated if you suck. "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente


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