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Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2428	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:12:00 - [61] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: the OP is talking about new players and players in lower teir corps. If you are: Sever true blood team players ahrende mercenaries burgerrz nyain sain.... etc or anyother big corp with aliances in PC, shut the ** up. Each of your members get millions upon millions of isk each month, on top of the isk for winning battles and pub stomping like little bitches. so, if your in one of these corps, of course you will never run out of money. You can go full proto every match...well in fact you do go full proto every match and still havr millions of cash left over. I aint hatin' on you for being rich... but don't look at the poor guy and say "start your own multi-billion isk corp and then you'll have money"... Or "run full proto get good scrub"... the game just doesn't work like that. Even running full militia gear you can hardly make money because you die repeatedly to proto stompers like you guys and go 9/17 or 7/12. So, in order to win these guys use adv gear but in the end go negative. therefore, your average dust player is left out of competetive play because they have to choose between going full proto and winning or losing terrible to make a few dollars.... my advice to you average dust players, run BPO (if you have any), milita, and standard Caldari and galente suits... tank it out with complex shield extenders and basic amor plates, std AR, CR, Scr or RR, run equipment. if your suit costs you more than 9,000 isk then its not worth it. If you die more than 5 times, just stay in the red line. If your red lined stay in the MCC... yeah its a *** move but would you rather losing and going negative with your isk? Wh not start your own corp, need to start somewhere it's not easy and there is no instant gratification but it is possible. Every corp started at 0 Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services
IG8T8 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 3	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:13:00 - [62] - Quote noob story; player gets stomped player buys better gear player still gets stomped player runs out of isk I run a mix of militia and basic gear, the isk cost is ~7k (ive got some bpos that make it cheaper); Amarr Assault A-1 militia shield extender militia shield extender scrambler rifle militia smg militia locus grenade compact nanohive militia armour plates gives me 549 ehp at my skills (~4million) most my sp is in scrambler rifle and core armour/shield & fitting. I maintain a +ve kdr and w/l. Compact hive is like a 2nd life if you get beat up but survive. if you want more points use an injector repper or link in the equip slot. i also run a amarr basic logi with hive/link or needle/repper combi depending on what the battle needs. I run a mix of lone wolf and squads depending on who is around. I know the pretty maps well. its fun. embrace it. get better. as eve pilots will tell you; don't field what you cant afford.
Sgt Buttscratch 1458	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 - [63] - Quote how can that this even be a thread. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE has BPO MLT suits, frontline, medic, sniper, AA. You can build kamikaze RE suit for 3k, you can build a MLT heavy with AR for 3k, MLT scout for 3k. Buy a sica or soma and fit it for 60-90k. You can never actually go bust. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2395	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:20:00 - [64] - Quote Basic fits can cost like 10k if that Average payout is 200k I dunno how you can make losses tbh Intelligence is OP
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 311	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:37:00 - [65] - Quote Guys go and play any of the other big shooters like Battlefield 3 / 4 , CoD etc... people die fast in those games, but even a brand new character can kill easily. The biggest selling point of DUST is ALSO its biggest weakness to new players. Actually having to buy your suits weapons and equipment. Without even going into balance and suit disparity - the fact that you lose money or your lose your weapons if you die is going to put a lot of people off. This game is for a niche market just like EVE was. The problem for me is, after playing this - I cant seriously enjoy games like Battlefield and CoD etc.. anymore lol.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 178	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:45:00 - [66] - Quote I can understand complaining that you are always going broke, I don't understand complaining that it is a problem with the game, it IS the game.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 68	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:55:00 - [67] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: Why don't they let us buy Isk at the market just like we can buy Aurum there now that would be good. An Eve Online plex costs $20 US. If you buy 6, they cost $105 US. Sometimes they have sales. A plex sells in the Eve Online market for about 600M Eve isk. A private exchange will convert those Eve isk to about 1/10th as much Dust isk. So, if you're willing to spend $20 US. you can get ~60M Dust isk. If you're willing to spend $105 US, you can get about 360M Dust isk. A plex can be sold on the Eve Online market, or used to pay for a month of Eve Online game time. More about buying plex: https://secure.eveonline.com/PLEX/ More about the player run, private currency exchanges: this Dust thread and this Market Discussion thread -Gyn Wallace/Min Lo
50LD13R Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 28	Posted - 2014.02.06 15:58:00 - [68] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: 50LD13R wrote: I can make about 1 mil in an hour of ambushes if I run a Frontline with a militia rep tool, and I'm not a high SP player...but I also don't care about my KDR. I did it Monday night! 1 mil an hour in a BPO suit? What do you do, take 30 minute breaks between matches? I'm just typically running solo if I do ambush, and that's the least I've made. If I find an ambush squad I average 1.5-2 mil, just don't find squads often when I'm in the mood to grind.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2422	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:06:00 - [69] - Quote I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1533	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:08:00 - [70] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta

Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 427	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:10:00 - [71] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Enki Kalgarian wrote: Why don't they let us buy Isk at the market just like we can buy Aurum there now that would be good. An Eve Online plex costs $20 US. If you buy 6, they cost $105 US. Sometimes they have sales. A plex sells in the Eve Online market for about 600M Eve isk. A private exchange will convert those Eve isk to about 1/10th as much Dust isk. So, if you're willing to spend $20 US. you can get ~60M Dust isk. If you're willing to spend $105 US, you can get about 360M Dust isk. A plex can be sold on the Eve Online market, or used to pay for a month of Eve Online game time. More about buying plex: https://secure.eveonline.com/PLEX/ More about the player run, private currency exchanges: this Dust thread and this Market Discussion thread -Gyn Wallace/Min Lo bump this Who wants some?
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 848	Posted - 2014.02.06 16:46:00 - [72] - Quote I've made 250,000,000 isk just running advanced suits so it's baffling that people are running low You have 3 solutions 1. Stop running proto 2. Join a corp with a lower tax 3. Don't die as much
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1481	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:26:00 - [73] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: D legendary hero wrote: the OP is talking about new players and players in lower teir corps. If you are: Sever true blood team players ahrende mercenaries burgerrz nyain sain.... etc or anyother big corp with aliances in PC, shut the ** up. Each of your members get millions upon millions of isk each month, on top of the isk for winning battles and pub stomping like little bitches. so, if your in one of these corps, of course you will never run out of money. You can go full proto every match...well in fact you do go full proto every match and still havr millions of cash left over. I aint hatin' on you for being rich... but don't look at the poor guy and say "start your own multi-billion isk corp and then you'll have money"... Or "run full proto get good scrub"... the game just doesn't work like that. Even running full militia gear you can hardly make money because you die repeatedly to proto stompers like you guys and go 9/17 or 7/12. So, in order to win these guys use adv gear but in the end go negative. therefore, your average dust player is left out of competetive play because they have to choose between going full proto and winning or losing terrible to make a few dollars.... my advice to you average dust players, run BPO (if you have any), milita, and standard Caldari and galente suits... tank it out with complex shield extenders and basic amor plates, std AR, CR, Scr or RR, run equipment. if your suit costs you more than 9,000 isk then its not worth it. If you die more than 5 times, just stay in the red line. If your red lined stay in the MCC... yeah its a *** move but would you rather losing and going negative with your isk? Wh not start your own corp, need to start somewhere it's not easy and there is no instant gratification but it is possible. Every corp started at 0 I could because I have money. but, if you hve no isk, you'll have to pay out 1,000,000 isk. plus, who would want to join your corp since other than the megacorps, no other corporation has real benefits to offer mercs that you dnt personally know. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1481	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:29:00 - [74] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: I've made 250,000,000 isk just running advanced suits so it's baffling that people are running low You have 3 solutions 1. Stop running proto 2. Join a corp with a lower tax 3. Don't die as much I got 3 words for you: unholylegion of darkstar your in a megacorporation so yeah much of what your saying is void... however, I will commend you by saying point number 1 can help. point number 3 i cant realy say much about, because if they arent running proto, and your running full proto or their are tanks everywhere the only not to die is to MCC/red line camp.... which is boring. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1481	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:38:00 - [75] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Basic fits can cost like 10k if that Average payout is 200k I dunno how you can make losses tbh average pay out for 1000 + WP of the top 5 players is 189k isk+, If you go 42/0 and got 2000+ WP you get 250k-300k+ isk. for 900WP or less you normally get 150k ISK and below. So, you are correct, If I get 1000+ WP and rank as or between 1st and 3rd place, losing 0-1 suits I make max profit. However, if the average new player is running STD gear, gets 4 kills and dies 17 times to tanks and proto pub stompers they lose 170K isk garunteed. since 4/17 isn't exactly going to generate you the most war points you will probably end up with around 100K isk at best, probably 89k isk. 10k * 17 = 170k ISK loss 100K ISK gain your profit = 0 your loss = 70K this is for your average new player. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1910	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:52:00 - [76] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. Improved NPE (helping learn stronger resource management skills from day one) Full array of Militia variants of gear (opens the door to practice and experimentation with a lower SP and ISK overhead) MLT "Play Packs" with large quantities of gear, it's weak but it'll keep you going for several hundred deaths. (Honestly MLT BPOs that are diverse would be even better and wouldn't cause actual damage to the in game econ as it stands, but I know some folks at CCP disagree with me here so I'm not holding my breath for this option... even so having to work a little harder to make the in game econ shine while retaining a higher playerbase seems like a net win to me). PvE - Again higher player base + way to make ISK that won't require getting new players/players with thin wallets to get proto stomped by corp squads before they can run their real fits again. In game/player/secondary market - Even an early version of this that is purely players putting up contracts among themselves to exchange salvage etc would help alleviate ISK bottlenecks. Right now nearly everyone is sitting on gear they can't use by the end of their first month in the game. Enhanced matchmaking - Part of the struggle matchmaking faces is the lower numbers once the player population is divided up into sub-groups. We have several game types, and then the matchmaking has to divide still further. Increased population wouldn't solve everything but it would help and more MLT BPOs as well as a full range of MLT gear would aid in player pop/retention as would PvE and a more robust NPE. Granulated changes > Sweeping alterations - Players burn through ISK faster every time something is changed in a major way. There's testing to be done, there are new bugs and exploits out there, and your old experience about what you can and cannot do in your primary fit no longer applies... meaning you die more. Compounding that there are changes which make players no longer interested in using a given type or configuration of gear meaning that anyone who tries to manage their resources such that they have a stockpile of what they use will find themselves sitting on assets they no longer have a context to employ but cannot sell either (no Player Market as of yet). If patches start focusing more on gradual changes, on polish rather than complete reinvention, players will burn less ISK during each patching cycle because on average they will have less reason to spend so high. Getting the above changes into the game, even if it takes several layers/patches to fully implement some/all of them, would help greatly with ISK issues and would further address several other aspects as well.. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2441	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:57:00 - [77] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: D legendary hero wrote: the OP is talking about new players and players in lower teir corps. If you are: Sever true blood team players ahrende mercenaries burgerrz nyain sain.... etc or anyother big corp with aliances in PC, shut the ** up. Each of your members get millions upon millions of isk each month, on top of the isk for winning battles and pub stomping like little bitches. so, if your in one of these corps, of course you will never run out of money. You can go full proto every match...well in fact you do go full proto every match and still havr millions of cash left over. I aint hatin' on you for being rich... but don't look at the poor guy and say "start your own multi-billion isk corp and then you'll have money"... Or "run full proto get good scrub"... the game just doesn't work like that. Even running full militia gear you can hardly make money because you die repeatedly to proto stompers like you guys and go 9/17 or 7/12. So, in order to win these guys use adv gear but in the end go negative. therefore, your average dust player is left out of competetive play because they have to choose between going full proto and winning or losing terrible to make a few dollars.... my advice to you average dust players, run BPO (if you have any), milita, and standard Caldari and galente suits... tank it out with complex shield extenders and basic amor plates, std AR, CR, Scr or RR, run equipment. if your suit costs you more than 9,000 isk then its not worth it. If you die more than 5 times, just stay in the red line. If your red lined stay in the MCC... yeah its a *** move but would you rather losing and going negative with your isk? Wh not start your own corp, need to start somewhere it's not easy and there is no instant gratification but it is possible. Every corp started at 0 I could because I have money. but, if you hve no isk, you'll have to pay out 1,000,000 isk. plus, who would want to join your corp since other than the megacorps, no other corporation has real benefits to offer mercs that you dnt personally know. You think new casual players are making spreadsheet of corps with what benefits they will get when they join them? No new players will get in a squad with a random person, when asked if they want to join a corp they will even if they have no clue what the corp is about. You are not going to be at the top of the food chain right away you have to work for it. Buying EVE CE codes for Dust ISK Corp services
DozersMouse XIII Ultramarine Corp 115	Posted - 2014.02.06 21:24:00 - [78] - Quote if you cant find a balance in saving isk and running high end gear then dont run the high end gear its that simple DUST offers so many ways to gain isk from grinding - thieving so how the hell can you go broke? (starter fits) everyone has access to these tools starter fits can get you LP, isk, hatemail, and SP same as militia gear if you want to run something different but cheap LEARN HOW TO GRIND if it isn't in you it will never be period Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 314	Posted - 2014.02.07 00:02:00 - [79] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). This is the biggest worry I have if we actually get a player supply / demand market. I don't think most people really quite understand the implications of what may well happen. I would imagine CCP have spoke to their economist they have working on EVE because it will be a huge upset if even advanced modules become totally unsustainable through general play. Unless this is CCP`s goal! Its a conspiracy! But no on a serious note - it will be something the DEVS have to think about if and when it comes.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 314	Posted - 2014.02.07 00:08:00 - [80] - Quote OH yea and I could be mistaken but I swear I read at one point this guy was in a corp with a whopping 20% tax rate! That's pretty high by EVE standards, by DUST standards that is daylight robbery.

VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 36	Posted - 2014.02.07 00:17:00 - [81] - Quote man if your corp tax is higher then 10% you are being scamd . leave now dont look back . isk is very easy to make ' get core up asap . will turn frontline suits into good suits
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1913	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:07:00 - [82] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 143	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:13:00 - [83] - Quote The risk/reward of making and losing ISK is what makes EVE and Dust different and fun. Losing ISK sucks. I've been playing EVE for 4.5 years and my heart still races when I'm about to get into a fight. No other game can give you that adrenaline rush like EVE and Dust can because few other games have real risk. So the ISK factor is what will keep this game going, not kill it. Also, a decent advanced suit should only cost 30-40k. If you can't make money off that then I'm not sure what you are doing wrong. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Turtle Hermit Roshi D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 84	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:59:00 - [84] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: i run basic suits ALOT and i stomp with them. if your not good in a basic suit then running proto isnt really going to make much of a difference and isnt worth the isk cost... stick to advanced suits if you really need that little bit extra over basic. if your curious about my fits they are all fit all complex extenders in the highs, and fit the best plates you can in the lows, and a compact nanohive for repenishing armor rather then a built in repper. decent HP buffer of 600-700HP on a suit that costs 15-25k and i let my passive skills do the talking instead of relying on prototype to carry me. i pretty much cant ever run out of isk even though i sometimes buy and run 100s of protos at a time and am a part time ADS pilot (wich as we all know is the best way to lose isk fast) ditto yea i run a std sentinel heavy std hmg with adv modules ad stomp with it did some of my best games withthat fit yes i scream KA-ME-HA-MEHAAAAAA when i forge muthafuckas the Turtle Hermit: Professional Heavy
PAXTON HAILFIRE Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 9	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:16:00 - [85] - Quote Been playing 6 months or so. Overall KDR of like 0.42. Thats zero point four two. Took me 6 weeks to not pull back on the stick to look up and vice versa. I have 27 million in ISK. I suck and I have ISK. Run adv caldari assault suit with enhanced shields and a complex damage mod, grenade of choice, basic sidearm, enhanced armor and repper, with GeK or Duvolle. Go about 4:6:4. Nothing to brag about but I have fun. Sometimes I go 1:0:7 or 7:0:1. Cant fit a nano so save cash there! Doubt i have an optimal fit and I make money with subpar skills. Not sure how you dont make isk.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 306	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:28:00 - [86] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Teilka Darkmist wrote: I don't think the isk is what's going to kill the game. It's the matchmaking that puts multiple squads from corps against a team of all randoms. There are ways around running out of isk, but when they're not having fun actually playing the game, that's what gets people to leave. Agreed, new players aren't going to quit because they run out of Isk, they wont be here near that long. They're going to die 500 times and see that there is no hope because CCP has given up and just quit. New players are going to die 500 times no matter what game they play, i dont see your point. Most casual gamers will go there first 50 matches in CoD in negative KDR does not mean they will quit. For casual gamers the amount of times you die wont matter, they play to have fun. Are you implying that there is fun to be had in this broken ads game of endless promises that amount to nothing and the never ending grind of earning SP simply to compete with 30million SP beta players, who will maintain a skill gap over you that you will NEVER be able to close. I can has ISK
Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 69	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:34:00 - [87] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: Where are they gonna go? Back to COD?? No, MAG. ooohhh....too soon? ;) Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Ankbar Latrommi S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 70	Posted - 2014.02.07 04:44:00 - [88] - Quote Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote: 30million SP beta players, who will maintain a skill gap over you that you will NEVER be able to close. simply incorrect. Skills max, and after that there's nothing more to be gained. The gap does close. Same stupid incorrect BS we get in Eve-O. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1536	Posted - 2014.02.07 16:52:00 - [89] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross Ok, so maybe I should've addressed it as being bad for the player market, though I thought by now, everyone was using the terms interchangeably. However, it still means little since NPCs will likely only be selling things like boosters and AUR items anyway. Yes, in Eve, NPCs buy/sell items, however the items bought and sold by NPCs aren't the items that see the most volume on the markets. NPCs sell things like BPOs, I-Hub Upgrades, Reactions and Trade Goods. They don't sell things like Ammunition, Destroyers or modules for ships which are the items that would be analogous to the items that players will be selling when we get the player market. Imagine the Gallente Ice Interdiction, now imagine it wasn't Ice being interdicted, but everything on the entire ******* market, that is what the Dust market will be like once we get it if something isn't done about the broken faucet that PC corps have been getting drunk on for 2/3's of a year now. Everyone who wasn't suckling at the teat of PC will be relegated to using STD equipment at best, if not from the beginning, it won't take long before their ISK reserves are depleted buying overpriced gear from the stupid rich farmers. Remember people, you heard it first from Alaika. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1915	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:05:00 - [90] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross Ok, so maybe I should've addressed it as being bad for the player market, though I thought by now, everyone was using the terms interchangeably. However, it still means little since NPCs will likely only be selling things like boosters and AUR items anyway. Yes, in Eve, NPCs buy/sell items, however the items bought and sold by NPCs aren't the items that see the most volume on the markets. NPCs sell things like BPOs, I-Hub Upgrades, Reactions and Trade Goods. They don't sell things like Ammunition, Destroyers or modules for ships which are the items that would be analogous to the items that players will be selling when we get the player market. Imagine the Gallente Ice Interdiction, now imagine it wasn't Ice being interdicted, but everything on the entire ******* market, that is what the Dust market will be like once we get it if something isn't done about the broken faucet that PC corps have been getting drunk on for 2/3's of a year now. Everyone who wasn't suckling at the teat of PC will be relegated to using STD equipment at best, if not from the beginning, it won't take long before their ISK reserves are depleted buying overpriced gear from the stupid rich farmers. Remember people, you heard it first from Alaika. That's a bit of a leap. It sounds like you are, in essence, addressing the player market as if it were Null Sec in EVE but without any PvE or player production elements present. If CCP opens up a market in that fashion I agree things would be in a very bad spot, but can you honestly picture CCP with their decade plus of exp with EVE deciding to not only open a Dust market in that manner but eventually integrate it with EVE:O? CCP is new to making console FPS, but they are not new to economics, that's one of their hallmarks. Ignoring the materials supply chain is an oversight and one I do not believe CCP will make. If all those goods suddenly go to player created there will have to be a method for their creation, much like mining + invention + production in EVE. PC is a flood of ISK but it isn't, nor will it be, the entire in game economy. I don't mean to downplay PC, it needs a rework no doubt, but it is far from all encompassing. In EVE, which is the full fledged example of an econ maintained by CCP, some of the wealthiest characters are 100% non-combat, and there are many quite successfully characters who don't ever set foot into Null Sec despite how much of the physical game space Null encompasses. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say we'll see something of like kind in Dust once the full market is up and running, but even if we don't there is no changelog that I'm aware of stating CCP will remove seeding of all current non-aur gear and transfer it on a purely ISK supported basis to the PC Corps. Doing so could be game killing and I just don't see anyone signing off on that. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System



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