DUST Search - Mercs running out of Isk and leaving Dust 514.

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character.

I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches.

I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily.

Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits).

Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust.
The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence.

Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants.

There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Ok, so maybe I should've addressed it as being bad for the player market, though I thought by now, everyone was using the terms interchangeably.

However, it still means little since NPCs will likely only be selling things like boosters and AUR items anyway.

Yes, in Eve, NPCs buy/sell items, however the items bought and sold by NPCs aren't the items that see the most volume on the markets. NPCs sell things like BPOs, I-Hub Upgrades, Reactions and Trade Goods. They don't sell things like Ammunition, Destroyers or modules for ships which are the items that would be analogous to the items that players will be selling when we get the player market.

Imagine the Gallente Ice Interdiction, now imagine it wasn't Ice being interdicted, but everything on the entire ******* market, that is what the Dust market will be like once we get it if something isn't done about the broken faucet that PC corps have been getting drunk on for 2/3's of a year now.

Everyone who wasn't suckling at the teat of PC will be relegated to using STD equipment at best, if not from the beginning, it won't take long before their ISK reserves are depleted buying overpriced gear from the stupid rich farmers.

Remember people, you heard it first from Alaika.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1910	Posted - 2014.02.06 18:52:00 - [1] - Quote Enki Kalgarian wrote: I think the isk factor in dust 514 is going to kill the game in the long run Ive been playing since the beginning and have ran out of isk many times, but i would go buy a playstation card and buy 20 dollars worth of Aurum and save up on isk or play free suits.but now free or cheap suits suck most of the time people those who say other wise haven't used them lately or are just lying.and ive spent $140 on merc packs to save up on isk i love dust 514 but in the long run i have a feeling its going to fail.I talk to alot of players who feel the same way. Improved NPE (helping learn stronger resource management skills from day one) Full array of Militia variants of gear (opens the door to practice and experimentation with a lower SP and ISK overhead) MLT "Play Packs" with large quantities of gear, it's weak but it'll keep you going for several hundred deaths. (Honestly MLT BPOs that are diverse would be even better and wouldn't cause actual damage to the in game econ as it stands, but I know some folks at CCP disagree with me here so I'm not holding my breath for this option... even so having to work a little harder to make the in game econ shine while retaining a higher playerbase seems like a net win to me). PvE - Again higher player base + way to make ISK that won't require getting new players/players with thin wallets to get proto stomped by corp squads before they can run their real fits again. In game/player/secondary market - Even an early version of this that is purely players putting up contracts among themselves to exchange salvage etc would help alleviate ISK bottlenecks. Right now nearly everyone is sitting on gear they can't use by the end of their first month in the game. Enhanced matchmaking - Part of the struggle matchmaking faces is the lower numbers once the player population is divided up into sub-groups. We have several game types, and then the matchmaking has to divide still further. Increased population wouldn't solve everything but it would help and more MLT BPOs as well as a full range of MLT gear would aid in player pop/retention as would PvE and a more robust NPE. Granulated changes > Sweeping alterations - Players burn through ISK faster every time something is changed in a major way. There's testing to be done, there are new bugs and exploits out there, and your old experience about what you can and cannot do in your primary fit no longer applies... meaning you die more. Compounding that there are changes which make players no longer interested in using a given type or configuration of gear meaning that anyone who tries to manage their resources such that they have a stockpile of what they use will find themselves sitting on assets they no longer have a context to employ but cannot sell either (no Player Market as of yet). If patches start focusing more on gradual changes, on polish rather than complete reinvention, players will burn less ISK during each patching cycle because on average they will have less reason to spend so high. Getting the above changes into the game, even if it takes several layers/patches to fully implement some/all of them, would help greatly with ISK issues and would further address several other aspects as well.. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1913	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:07:00 - [2] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1915	Posted - 2014.02.07 22:05:00 - [3] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I have been mostly playing my Heavy for the last 6 months. Dren BPO suit and standard HMG. I do use proto modules but the fit I normally run costs less than 18,000 ISK. I also run a BPO LAV with militia shield extenders. After 6 months of play I only have 17 million ISK on that character. I also find that I am facing Proto suits in most matches. I do think the secondary market will do a lot to help. I for one intend to play the market quite heavily. Secondary market will be meaningless, PC corps will skew prices to a point where most will be locked into STD at best (if not just running Starter Fits). Secondary market is, well secondary it does not presage the removal of all NPC seeded items. Even in EVE:O where players make most of the goods there are still basics seeded by the NPCs and resources gathered and constructed outside of combat situations (the odd gank squad ambush aside), so there's really not much to say it would be done otherwise in Dust. The PC ISK flow is a problematic element at this point true, but it isn't something that would cause the presence of a secondary market to be worse than the current absence. Also bear in mind that all those goods sold on the secondary market are being solid by players so the ISK is flowing more freely into the community rather than the current chain which is PC >>> PC Corps/Players >>> NPC merchants. There is no "lock" on gear created by the presence of a player market. Adding the feature won't solve everything by any means, but it'll help. 0.02 ISK Cross Ok, so maybe I should've addressed it as being bad for the player market, though I thought by now, everyone was using the terms interchangeably. However, it still means little since NPCs will likely only be selling things like boosters and AUR items anyway. Yes, in Eve, NPCs buy/sell items, however the items bought and sold by NPCs aren't the items that see the most volume on the markets. NPCs sell things like BPOs, I-Hub Upgrades, Reactions and Trade Goods. They don't sell things like Ammunition, Destroyers or modules for ships which are the items that would be analogous to the items that players will be selling when we get the player market. Imagine the Gallente Ice Interdiction, now imagine it wasn't Ice being interdicted, but everything on the entire ******* market, that is what the Dust market will be like once we get it if something isn't done about the broken faucet that PC corps have been getting drunk on for 2/3's of a year now. Everyone who wasn't suckling at the teat of PC will be relegated to using STD equipment at best, if not from the beginning, it won't take long before their ISK reserves are depleted buying overpriced gear from the stupid rich farmers. Remember people, you heard it first from Alaika. That's a bit of a leap. It sounds like you are, in essence, addressing the player market as if it were Null Sec in EVE but without any PvE or player production elements present. If CCP opens up a market in that fashion I agree things would be in a very bad spot, but can you honestly picture CCP with their decade plus of exp with EVE deciding to not only open a Dust market in that manner but eventually integrate it with EVE:O? CCP is new to making console FPS, but they are not new to economics, that's one of their hallmarks. Ignoring the materials supply chain is an oversight and one I do not believe CCP will make. If all those goods suddenly go to player created there will have to be a method for their creation, much like mining + invention + production in EVE. PC is a flood of ISK but it isn't, nor will it be, the entire in game economy. I don't mean to downplay PC, it needs a rework no doubt, but it is far from all encompassing. In EVE, which is the full fledged example of an econ maintained by CCP, some of the wealthiest characters are 100% non-combat, and there are many quite successfully characters who don't ever set foot into Null Sec despite how much of the physical game space Null encompasses. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say we'll see something of like kind in Dust once the full market is up and running, but even if we don't there is no changelog that I'm aware of stating CCP will remove seeding of all current non-aur gear and transfer it on a purely ISK supported basis to the PC Corps. Doing so could be game killing and I just don't see anyone signing off on that. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System