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Yagihige
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
711
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Posted - 2014.01.28 17:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
I love this.
I thought about something like this and have talked about it before but this goes beyond what i've envisioned. Although i also did think that we could stay in territory owned by EVE corps and that through a rent payment we could use some benefits from residing in a particular location and i also thought that a DUST bounty system could only be done when we finally could travel.
em ta kool t'nod
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
425
|
Posted - 2014.04.02 15:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
Bumping this thread as it is still not in the game.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
426
|
Posted - 2014.04.03 14:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
Seriously? No one else has anything to say about this? Does this mean everyone agrees with me? No one cares? Did people forget how to type?
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1385
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 17:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
Major concerns: 1. If you can use the inter bus system to move goods around new eden without the risk of being ganked, this could be abused by EVE players with DUST alts to ferry high value items around New Eden risk-free. It would break the sandbox.
2. What's to stop an EVE player from accepting your transport contract and dropping you off in the most remote location available, or just logging out in space somewhere with you in their cargo hold?
I really don't think this is all that necessary (I agree with the changes to local though). I expect when the market opens up, there will be a lot of opportunities for high sec hauling of goods from trade hubs/production centers to the DUST stations. Where there's demand in the market, there will be supply to fill it. A lot of DUST mercs have EVE characters, you can expect them to fill up the stations for their Merc and then some to make a profit. Also buy orders will be a useful tool for attracting haulers. If there is large demand for an item, you can be sure there will be people looking to profit from brining it to you.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
152
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:04:00 -
[65] - Quote
VERY good explanation of the universe and markets in EVE.
+ 4 to you good sir |
Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
440
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Major concerns: 1. If you can use the inter bus system to move goods around new eden without the risk of being ganked, this could be abused by EVE players with DUST alts to ferry high value items around New Eden risk-free. It would break the sandbox.
2. What's to stop an EVE player from accepting your transport contract and dropping you off in the most remote location available, or just logging out in space somewhere with you in their cargo hold?
I really don't think this is all that necessary (I agree with the changes to local though). I expect when the market opens up, there will be a lot of opportunities for high sec hauling of goods from trade hubs/production centers to the DUST stations. Where there's demand in the market, there will be supply to fill it. A lot of DUST mercs have EVE characters, you can expect them to fill up the stations for their Merc and then some to make a profit. Also buy orders will be a useful tool for attracting haulers. If there is large demand for an item, you can be sure there will be people looking to profit from brining it to you.
- I admit I had missed that part. But let's assume that the cost to transport your DUST toon along with his equipment in the calculation for distance travelled X volume transported etc will make this style of transportation for the purposes of moving goods around pointlessly expensive.
- Nothing to stop them other than if they DO NOT complete the contract as specified within a specified time-liimt, then they default, you get reset to your original starting point and your stuff (which is now the property of the EVE pilot) is replaced by the COLLATERAL that the EVE Pilot had to pay to take on the contract to begin with.
There are NO DIFFERENCES between "DUST stations" and "EVE stations" they are the same exact things. We are already in the same stations. This whole thing with the different markets in different locations *IS* the very reason that we haven't combined the markets yet. Until CCP figures out how DUST toons can travel, we cannot merge the markets. |
Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
444
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
So I feel that DUST players don't seem to fully understand how the CONTRACTS system works in EVE.
Basically, you set a time limit (usually a day to 3 months) for the contract to be available for someone to accomplish it. (If DUST contracts become implemented, this will need to change to allow for 1 hour increments up to 24 hours.) Then you set whether it is an AUCTION, a SALE, a TRADE, or a TRANSPORT. In our case we would select TRANSPORT. Then you can require a COLLATERAL amount of ISK be deposited by the EVE pilot to be held onto by some NPC commerce company. IF THE EVE PILOT SOMEHOW TRIES TO SCREW YOU OVER, TAKE THE STUFF, BLOW IT UP, LOOSES IT, OR DOESN'T DELIVER ON TIME, OR ANY OTHER THING OTHER THAN DELIVERING YOU AND YOUR STUFF INTACT TO YOUR DESTINATION ON TIME, then you get to keep the collateral and it's as if you just sold all those things to that EVE player for the price that YOU named. Finally, you set an amount of ISK out of your wallet to pay to the EVE pilot upon successful completion of this contract.
So no for example time...
Let's say I have myself (1 m3) plus 100 dropsuits (100 m3 worth about 1 million ISK) and 10 tanks (100 m3 worth about 15 million ISK) that I want moved 5 systems. I make a transport contract that is set to expire in 1 hour (I plan to go grab some dinner and come back to play). I set the COLLATERAL amount to be ABOVE what I believe all that stuff to be worth so that if the EVE pilot tries to **** me over, he looses out. So in this case the total worth is 16 million ISK so I set the collateral to be 20 million ISK. If the pilot runs off with my stuff, then I make out with a 4 million ISK profit. I then offer a 1 million ISK reward for successful completion of the contract. I then log off and go to dinner...
Elsewhere some EVE pilot with a ship that has a cargo hold size of 201 m3 or larger is looking through contracts to make money on transporting stuff. He sees my contract and it's only 5 jumps for 1 million ISK! That's only 5 minutes of work for him since he's already at the starting station. Easy money! So he checks the cargo size needed, finds that he has the available space, looks at the collateral and has more than 20 million ISK in his wallet. So he hits accepts on the contract. A giant wrapped "package" that is 201 m3 is volume appears in his hangar and his wallet is now 20 million ISK lighter. The pilot moves the package to the cargo hold of the ship he plans to move the goods with. He then sets the autopilot of the ship's navigation for the destination station and undocks the ship carrying the cargo.
Away he goes and five minutes later he docks up in the destination system, opens contracts and hits complete. Now he gets his 20 million ISK back from the collateral plus another 1 million ISK that I am paying him from the contract's successful completion. I later log on and find that I and all of my gear are now in a new station in a new system ready to go blow stuff up.
Now let's consider some other possible outcomes...
-Pilot hits accept, and then keeps my stuff... Well at the end of the 1 hour timer that I set in the contract, the 20 million ISK collateral becomes mine and I'm still in the starting station, but much much richer and I can still hire the NPC Interbus company to transfer me my destination anyways.
-Pilot hits accept, undocks and gets blown up by pirates! Sucks to be that EVE pilot. He not only doesn't get my stuff (it either gets destroyed or is looted by the pirates), but now he's lost a ship and will also loose his 20 million ISK in collateral. At the end of the 1 hour timer that I set in the contract, the 20 million ISK collateral becomes mine and I'm still in the starting station, but much much richer and I can still hire the NPC Interbus company to transfer me my destination anyways.
-Pilot hits accept, undocks and logs off or tries to deliver me to the wrong station. The pilot effectively gets to keep my stuff, I re-appear in my quarters in the original station, and at the end of the 1 hour timer that I set in the contract, the 20 million ISK collateral becomes mine and I'm still in the starting station, but much much richer and I can still hire the NPC Interbus company to transfer me my destination anyways.
As you can see, if you use the contracting system correctly (and this system is ALREADY IN EVE) then there is no way someone can easily scam you out of your stuff.
It's not fool-proof and you need to know what you are doing, but the burden of work is on the EVE pilot to make it all happen.
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Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1385
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 18:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Major concerns: 1. If you can use the inter bus system to move goods around new eden without the risk of being ganked, this could be abused by EVE players with DUST alts to ferry high value items around New Eden risk-free. It would break the sandbox.
2. What's to stop an EVE player from accepting your transport contract and dropping you off in the most remote location available, or just logging out in space somewhere with you in their cargo hold?
I really don't think this is all that necessary (I agree with the changes to local though). I expect when the market opens up, there will be a lot of opportunities for high sec hauling of goods from trade hubs/production centers to the DUST stations. Where there's demand in the market, there will be supply to fill it. A lot of DUST mercs have EVE characters, you can expect them to fill up the stations for their Merc and then some to make a profit. Also buy orders will be a useful tool for attracting haulers. If there is large demand for an item, you can be sure there will be people looking to profit from brining it to you.
- I admit I had missed that part. But let's assume that the cost to transport your DUST toon along with his equipment in the calculation for distance travelled X volume transported etc will make this style of transportation for the purposes of moving goods around pointlessly expensive.
- Nothing to stop them other than if they DO NOT complete the contract as specified within a specified time-liimt, then they default, you get reset to your original starting point and your stuff (which is now the property of the EVE pilot) is replaced by the COLLATERAL that the EVE Pilot had to pay to take on the contract to begin with.
There are NO DIFFERENCES between "DUST stations" and "EVE stations" they are the same exact things. We are already in the same stations. This whole thing with the different markets in different locations *IS* the very reason that we haven't combined the markets yet. Until CCP figures out how DUST toons can travel, we cannot merge the markets.
By "DUST stations" I was referring to the stations where we are all living currently (you listed them all in the OP).
As to point 1, I don't see how you could make this cost-prohibitive. Many of the most valuable items in EVE take barely any cargo space (e.g. EVE BPOs, PLEX, Blueprints and skill books for super caps, etc.) they are usually transported in fast cloaky CovOps ships and are a big prize for pirates and suicide gankers.
I could also see #2 being a major problem. Nobody wants to spend hours locked out of battles because the new fun thing to do in EVE is to maroon mercs for the LOLs (a little trolling is fine, and part of New Eden, but this just opens the door for nonstop harassment and rage quitting). And if you can teleport back after the contract expires, why can't you just teleport around in the first place? It doesn't make any sense.
I do think it would be cool if we could physically relocate to other stations, but making it so you are spending a huge amount of your time doing so on a regular basis, just to buy/sell and join the battles you want to play just adds a lot of unnecessary frustration and friction to squadding up and getting in matches.
Jadd: "want to squad up?"
Vel0: "sure what are you running?"
Jadd: "Galente FW."
Vel0: "ok, I'm in Amarr space right now, give me 20 to get there."
Jadd: "ok."
...20 minutes passes
Vel0: "ok, I'm here"
Jadd: "one sec, I'll grab you after this match."
...20 minutes passes
Jadd: "Hey my boss called and I have to run to work... Sorry. Catch you next time." /logs out
Vel0: "...."
Vel0 in corp chat: " lfs"
Corpmate: "sure, we're in Minmatar FW, come join us"
....rage...
Best PvE idea ever!
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
452
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 19:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
By "DUST stations" I was referring to the stations where we are all living currently (you listed them all in the OP).
As to point 1, I don't see how you could make this cost-prohibitive. Many of the most valuable items in EVE take barely any cargo space (e.g. EVE BPOs, PLEX, Blueprints and skill books for super caps, etc.) they are usually transported in fast cloaky CovOps ships and are a big prize for pirates and suicide gankers.
I could also see #2 being a major problem. Nobody wants to spend hours locked out of battles because the new fun thing to do in EVE is to maroon mercs for the LOLs (a little trolling is fine, and part of New Eden, but this just opens the door for nonstop harassment and rage quitting). And if you can teleport back after the contract expires, why can't you just teleport around in the first place? It doesn't make any sense.
I do think it would be cool if we could physically relocate to other stations, but making it so you are spending a huge amount of your time doing so on a regular basis, just to buy/sell and join the battles you want to play just adds a lot of unnecessary frustration and friction to squadding up and getting in matches.
Jadd: "want to squad up?"
Vel0: "sure what are you running?"
Jadd: "Galente FW."
Vel0: "ok, I'm in Amarr space right now, give me 20 to get there."
Jadd: "ok."
...20 minutes passes
Vel0: "ok, I'm here"
Jadd: "one sec, I'll grab you after this match."
...20 minutes passes
Jadd: "Hey my boss called and I have to run to work... Sorry. Catch you next time." /logs out
Vel0: "...."
Vel0 in corp chat: " lfs"
Corpmate: "sure, we're in Minmatar FW, come join us"
....rage...
Again to point 1, I agree, but it's easily fixed... Interbus would be limited to only transporting DUST mercs and DUST gear ONLY. No more exploit for the EVE pilots as the Interbus is meant solely for the usage of non-podded pilots.
Again, as I stated in my original post about this option, if you are worried that an EVE pilot cannot deliver, then you just use the Interbus instead and schedule it for when you log off and are not playing anyways. The idea of using an EVE pilot to do it is only ADDING IN an additional and possibly faster way 9but not without risks). Hell if you are in a DUST corp that is in an alliance with EVE pilots, you can just go into your alliance chat and ask an EVE pilot if they can move you for free if you trust them to do so.
The idea is that you are NOT teleporting. There is NO teleporting in this game. Just because the devs are too lazy to code the in-between moments so that players can understand this better does not mean that we must be teleporting. Hell the inro video for this game even shows one example of how we get from space to the ground via a dropship orbital deployment. (Hence the term DROPsuits.)
Maybe we should stop calling ourselves dust bunnies emphasize that we are drop mercs instead.
I can understand the idea that there could be a lot of "friction" with just wanting to squad up and join a buddy on the other side of the universe, so to fix that (and I think I mentioned it before) you can have multiple JUMP CLONES stationed at various regions throughout the universe.
Hell, for that matter ditch the need for InterBus to transport your character at all. Only use InterBus to ship your GEAR ONLY. Instead allow any dust merc the ability to jump clone to any station in a system that contains planets with combat districts in it. Now in your situation above when 'Vel0' wants to squad up we can both jump clone to anywhere for the fight. Our stuff gets left behind, but we still get access to all our "free BPO" stuff and millitia grade gear. If the station we happen to be going to has our stuff, then even better we can use it. If it doesn't, then we can check the market upon arrival and purchase what we want (supplies notwithstanding). Finally, we can have InterBus moving the bulk of our gear to our new station while we're still just tooling around with militia gear in some scrub matches.
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
152
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:35:00 -
[70] - Quote
After reading the entire thread (phuu), I guess I have to chip in my 2 ISK.
First of, I like the ideas APART from the OPs suggestion that you are limited to battles in high / low sec, unless you relocate. This would only create too much hassle as I usually like to warm up with a public contract before joining a FW. With the proposed mechanics I would have a relocation wait time in between battles as well.
What I totally agree with is the local chat channel changing during battles.... This needs to happen CCP!
Anyway, as I see it we have two problems: Relocation of Clones and Gear.
CLONES
As was stated before, the ability to instantly join battles across the galaxy already have a (official?) lore, I.e clone jumping. With that in mind, you could ask why would we have to hire the interbus to change stations. Well, I think we need to differentiate between lesure clones (in quarters) and combat clones. The leisure clone is special and you don't have millions of them located throughout the galaxy for easy access, so you just have to take the bus if you want to go somewhere. The combat clone on the other hand is different (it's ugly) and can be mass produced with minimal modifications based on the experice of the character "hosting it". It makes sence that CRUs store these clones, which can be hacked to be used by the enemy.
GEAR
This one is trickier, and is the source of CCPs dilemma. As stated before, if the only thing we have in our inventories are blueprints manufactured on-site, it will completely destroy the manufacture idea from EVE. If it is physical gear, how is it transported? My suggestion would be that the CRUs also contains the gear used in battle, thus you actually do not need to transport them. HOWEVER, any gear you loose in battle will be deducted (via agreed contract with the CRU manufacturer) from your storage where your leisure clone is located.
To resolve the problem that the CRUs can't contain all players entire stock, I would like to change the fitting concept.
Basically I think of the different fits as pre-set load outs, which I have X amount of when I go to battle. I.e. I don't bring my entire inventory, just the gear I associate with the different fits. This means that if you have two suites using the same module (let say 1 complex shield extender), if you loose one, the other WOULD NOT decrease in number (as it does today). So to fit 5 suites with the same module, you have to have at least 5 of them in your inventory.
This would (lore vice) limit the available gear inside a CRU (which will still be massive).
One downside with this would be that you are not able to change your fit or restock during battle. What you bring you bring, no changes. You can still have multiple different fits "pre-stored", you just have to select which ones you would bring to the battle.
So, back to the market.
Each merc can trade in the region market they have their leisure clone (merc quarters). If you physically travel to a different region you could access that market, no problem. If you like to join battles from that location, you can only use gear which is located where your current location is. If you want a big stockpile in one place, you need to transport yourself (and the gear) to your "home" station. They could even setup a system where you have leisure jump clones in different regions for easy access (of course determined by cost and new skills), but you still would have to haul the gear where you want it to be. |
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Gaurdian Satyr
Glitched Connection
81
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
Read 3/4 off it and loved it
+1
No proto in public matches!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThWFhoB8kS8&feature=youtu.be
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boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
524
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
one small detail. i disagree with the use of the word literal in this context. the fact that there is a known star count in our universe far higher than that of all the objects in space in eve says it all.
+1 all the same.
skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
1756
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 21:59:00 -
[73] - Quote
necromancer! renounce your wicked ways!
didn't I comment on this thread like back in January? there is no way GroPos caught on (still hilarious BTW) so it has to be the same thread...
"I speak for the trees!"
Ko6 scout,
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
465
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 16:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:After reading the entire thread (phuu), I guess I have to chip in my 2 ISK.
First of, I like the ideas APART from the OPs suggestion that you are limited to battles in high / low sec, unless you relocate. This would only create too much hassle as I usually like to warm up with a public contract before joining a FW. With the proposed mechanics I would have a relocation wait time in between battles as well.
What I totally agree with is the local chat channel changing during battles.... This needs to happen CCP!
Anyway, as I see it we have two problems: Relocation of Clones and Gear.
CLONES
As was stated before, the ability to instantly join battles across the galaxy already have a (official?) lore, I.e clone jumping. With that in mind, you could ask why would we have to hire the interbus to change stations. Well, I think we need to differentiate between lesure clones (in quarters) and combat clones. The leisure clone is special and you don't have millions of them located throughout the galaxy for easy access, so you just have to take the bus if you want to go somewhere. The combat clone on the other hand is different (it's ugly) and can be mass produced with minimal modifications based on the experice of the character "hosting it". It makes sence that CRUs store these clones, which can be hacked to be used by the enemy.
GEAR
This one is trickier, and is the source of CCPs dilemma. As stated before, if the only thing we have in our inventories are blueprints manufactured on-site, it will completely destroy the manufacture idea from EVE. If it is physical gear, how is it transported? My suggestion would be that the CRUs also contains the gear used in battle, thus you actually do not need to transport them. HOWEVER, any gear you loose in battle will be deducted (via agreed contract with the CRU manufacturer) from your storage where your leisure clone is located.
To resolve the problem that the CRUs can't contain all players entire stock, I would like to change the fitting concept.
Basically I think of the different fits as pre-set load outs, which I have X amount of when I go to battle. I.e. I don't bring my entire inventory, just the gear I associate with the different fits. This means that if you have two suites using the same module (let say 1 complex shield extender), if you loose one, the other WOULD NOT decrease in number (as it does today). So to fit 5 suites with the same module, you have to have at least 5 of them in your inventory.
This would (lore vice) limit the available gear inside a CRU (which will still be massive).
One downside with this would be that you are not able to change your fit load out (I.e switch out modules) or restock during battle. What you bring you bring, no changes. You can still have multiple different fits "pre-stored", you just have to select which ones you would bring to the battle.
So, back to the market.
Each merc can trade in the region market they have their leisure clone (merc quarters). If you physically travel to a different region you could access that market, no problem. If you like to join battles from that location, you can only use gear which is located where your current location is. If you want a big stockpile in one place, you need to transport yourself (and the gear) to your "home" station. They could even setup a system where you have leisure jump clones in different regions for easy access (of course determined by cost and new skills), but you still would have to haul the gear where you want it to be.
On your first part... I stated that the public matches (ie. the high and low-sec ones) would be able to be joined as they are NOW. As in you do not have to go there. So your example where you start off the night doing pub matches wouldn't be affected.
I do like your idea of differentiating between leisure and combat clones. If CCP institutes Walking In Stations (WIS) then I highly suggest that happens. However for now, as I stated in a posting above, we don't need to move the combat clones via InterBus or via EVE pilots. Instead we can just assume that every system capable of Drop Clone Combat should have facilities available to allow for you to jump clone to there. In EVE the clones are much more expensive, but in DUST we can assume that due to all combat capable clones being constructed from the same basic "frame" they are easier to mass produce and only the imprinting of the skills and memories is what differentiates them. Thus companies that make them want to encourage you to come to their systems and use their clones (so they can make money off you fighting). In this way DUST mercs can basically clone jump to anywhere, while EVE pilots can only clone jump to specific facilities that they have predesignated.
As for the gear, I like your idea of NOT being able to change your setups in the middle of a match. This makes sense to me. I don't know if you need to do the other part about having fully separate loadouts for each suit, but either way works for me. In the end though, all this equipment would still need to be transported from location to location in the game. You would still have to have either an EVE pilot do it via contract or use the NPC services like InterBus to ship it for you. (Think of InterBus as a UPS or FedEx in this case.). In cases where you are waiting on your gear's delivery to catch up to you, you can still use all the "free fits" and all sites would be seeded with all the Militia variants from the Market. Other things could be there too (and would be if they are popular places as both DUST salvage and EVE industrialists will seed those things onto the market rather than taking them with them). Additionally, you don't have to ship all your stuff with you everywhere you go. In EVE you can leave stuff everywhere if you want to. You could have a thousand different things stations and just jump to them when you want to.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
465
|
Posted - 2014.04.09 16:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:necromancer! renounce your wicked ways!
didn't I comment on this thread like back in January? there is no way GroPos caught on (still hilarious BTW) so it has to be the same thread...
Yeah it was a name used to pique people's curiosity and get them to read about it. As for names, GroPo is not necessary. However I'm starting to think that Dust Bunnies is causing players to forget the two major functions of why our characters exist in the EVE universe. So I now think that the most appropriate name should be:
Drop Mercs
Drop to emphasize that we are in DROPsuits that are DROPped from orbit into a battle on the planet and thus we need to have more involvement with the EVE and space side of things if this game is to ever out-grow it's current infancy.
Mercs because we work for anyone for a price and people need to understand that without a market to trade on we will NEVER be able to fully become self-sufficient and thus this game fails.
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
Galactic Skyfleet Empire
734
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 16:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
Didn't read everyone's comments, but first and foremost, this is really well thought out and I agree this would make the game much more interconnected and bring a whole new level of social connection to the game.
I recently started a trial of EVE so its really helping me understand both sides much better. However, I do see this as another long seen vision that is far off.
- as it is today, when people enter a channel with too many players, it hides everyone. that really doesn't help those coming into new locals on the dust side. we won't be aware of many players the way the current system works.
- I never check the chat rooms in battle. It's cumbersome, non intuitive and just a mess to deal with today. Until a better chat system is implemented, we're still going to have pods of player completely ignoring those new cool connections
- having a purpose is great but you have to realize this game attracted a lot of console gamers who aren't ok with slow play. Some of them just like to log in and go. With some of these changes, I expect a drop in players before we might attract others where a slower, more social connected game style is up their alley.
Otherwise, this is a great view of what could be and gives me hope for a much more integrated system.
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2075
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:54:00 -
[77] - Quote
I came up with a very similar set of ideas about a year ago, but one thing I added was an instanced public station environment you could choose to load into. You might only ever see 60 mercs walking around in one instance atm, but it would put a lot of mmo into this "mmo"fps. The area would serve as the travel hub for the station (you walk into the shuttle bay to leave the station) and would be the access point for PVE missions, which would give you some kind of standings / LP or some other bonus with the corporation owning that station.
One thing though is that I think instant battles should always be available no matter where your clone is in New Eden. These are just lobby matches that don't affect anything, and shouldn't be restricted by your location. One of the design goals is for the game to be a free to play shooter where you can log in, press a button and instantly have some action. Going deeper is highly recommended, but optional. There just isn't a great reason to limit access to pubs. But, for FW and PC I think limiting your access to matches based on location will be really important to making the game more mmo-like and our battles more strategic.
For example, imagine that in FW you can only fight on planets that are within your current constellation (the idea being that an npc ship drops you off). Then you can start to have more of an impact in New Eden by allying with a group that has a heavy Eve presence in FW and focusing your efforts on areas where changes in Dust control might actually mean something, rather than just in some backwater system nobody cares about atm. This likely means that there will be districts taken without opposition, but if that is how it has to be then so be it. PC should be even more restrictive about geography than FW, I think. |
Timbo101
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
195
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
I didn't read all the responses thoroughly but I would love to be able to pick up my buds in my ship and fly around looking for places to explore. PVE now pwease!
Drop them off right in the middle of null sec for the laughs  |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
2283
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Posted - 2014.04.15 18:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
At least you got the correct quarters! I'm a Gallente stuck in Minmatar quarters! I'd file a ticket, but I don't mind much. |
Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8019
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
I like your idea a lot, but please allow me to expand, reiterate, and slightly change a few things.
Basics- When this is implemented, all Dusters will of course be in their current station and all their assets in that station as well.
- As a Duster, in lore we can clone jump so allow us to change stations without needing to travel. This would have a cool down timer and the cool down timer could be based off how far you clone jumped.
- You local changes depending on what system you are in.
- When you clone jump, you only take your consciousness to a new clone. That means all your assets are left behind.
- If you're in high sec, you can only deploy to public contracts. To deploy FW or PC, you must be in at least low sec.
- For the sake of ease, when this is initially implemented as long as you are in at least low sec you can deploy instantly to any FW or PC match like you do currently.
- When you deploy to battle you only have access to the assets that are in your station.
- You will be able to easily view where all your assets are located.
- If you wish to sell assets on the market, you can only sell them within your current region of New Eden.
- Hire EVE players to transport you and/or your assets.
How does hiring an EVE player to transport you and your assets work?- As mentioned in the original post, you put a contract up listing how many cubic meters you need to transport and where you want to go.
- How many cubic meters will be calculated for you. Again like the original post states, simply select which assets you want transported and for your security it will only list how much space it all takes up in the contract and in-lore can be assumed to travel in a "package."
- You can choose to transport both you and your assets or just your assets.
- When traveling, you (the Dust player) don't actually need to be logged in. Again like the original post, you can simply put your contract up, then log off and come back at a later point and see if anyone picked it up and got the job done.
- When traveling you cannot deploy to battle.
- When setting up the contract, you must list both a Collateral Fee and a Transport Fee. The Collateral Fee is what the EVE player must pay you to accept the contract. If the contract is completed successfully, the EVE player receives the Collateral Fee back and also receives the Transport Fee from you.
- If the EVE player is destroyed on route, you keep the Collateral Fee, you lose all your assets, and if you were on board then you clone jump to your last station. This starts the clone jump cool down timer.
- If the you were on board and contract is completed successfully, obvious no clone jump will be required and the cool down timer does not start.
- At any point during the contract, you can select to terminate the contract. At this point if you were on board you may clone jump to where ever you desire (and the cool down timer starts), you keep the Collateral Fee, and the EVE player keeps all your assets on board.
A lot of rehashing on what was already stated, but with a few tweaks. What do you think?
Amarr are the good guys.
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
5035
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Posted - 2014.04.15 19:24:00 -
[81] - Quote
The abbreviation is extremely silly, but from what I've skimmed out of your posts so far, I already want to bump this.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
3
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Posted - 2014.04.15 20:19:00 -
[82] - Quote
Squagga wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
Absolutely, 100%, without any reservations YES. Ithink it would be fun. Not as fun as piloting my own MCC but still fun. OR if you're low on ISK and out of an MCC at the time you bargain up a deal with one of those back stabbing EVE pilots and hitch a ride!
Besides, if I've gotten the right impression from hearing about the goings on in New Eden, it would bring a bit more of what I'll call a "New Eden" feel, to the lives of us mercs. Plus while you may be able to use a Jump Clone every where you go, you'd have to leave all of your vehicles and equipment behind, or transport it with a Capsuleer, or the IB.
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Sardonk Eternia
RisingSuns
Dark Taboo
206
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Posted - 2014.04.15 20:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
On behalf of House Eternia and Multnomah Interstellar Holdings, Inc. I hereby fully endorse this discussion. |
One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
1103
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Posted - 2014.04.15 21:18:00 -
[84] - Quote
+1
I am now enlightened.
Looking for the scout hangout?
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Gaelon Thrace
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2014.04.18 22:43:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:
So no for example time...
Let's say I have myself (1 m3) plus 100 dropsuits (100 m3 worth about 1 million ISK) and 10 tanks (100 m3 worth about 15 million ISK) that I want moved 5 systems. I make a transport contract that is set to expire in 1 hour (I plan to go grab some dinner and come back to play). I set the COLLATERAL amount to be ABOVE what I believe all that stuff to be worth so that if the EVE pilot tries to **** me over, he looses out. So in this case the total worth is 16 million ISK so I set the collateral to be 20 million ISK. If the pilot runs off with my stuff, then I make out with a 4 million ISK profit. I then offer a 1 million ISK reward for successful completion of the contract. I then log off and go to dinner...
Now let's consider some other possible outcomes...
-Pilot hits accept, and then I intercept him with my EVE character, blow up his ship, and take my stuff back to my Dust character. Now I've made a 20 million ISK profit because I got to keep my stuff, and the poor sap who took the contract lost both a ship and 20 million ISK trying to make an easy 1 million.
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Finn Colman
Immortal Guides
4
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Posted - 2014.04.18 23:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Gaelon Thrace wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:
So no for example time...
Let's say I have myself (1 m3) plus 100 dropsuits (100 m3 worth about 1 million ISK) and 10 tanks (100 m3 worth about 15 million ISK) that I want moved 5 systems. I make a transport contract that is set to expire in 1 hour (I plan to go grab some dinner and come back to play). I set the COLLATERAL amount to be ABOVE what I believe all that stuff to be worth so that if the EVE pilot tries to **** me over, he looses out. So in this case the total worth is 16 million ISK so I set the collateral to be 20 million ISK. If the pilot runs off with my stuff, then I make out with a 4 million ISK profit. I then offer a 1 million ISK reward for successful completion of the contract. I then log off and go to dinner...
Now let's consider some other possible outcomes... -Pilot hits accept, and then I intercept him with my EVE character, blow up his ship, and take my stuff back to my Dust character. Now I've made a 20 million ISK profit because I got to keep my stuff, and the poor sap who took the contract lost both a ship and 20 million ISK trying to make an easy 1 million.
quote fixed |
Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
545
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:20:00 -
[87] - Quote
Finn Colman wrote:Gaelon Thrace wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:
So no for example time...
Let's say I have myself (1 m3) plus 100 dropsuits (100 m3 worth about 1 million ISK) and 10 tanks (100 m3 worth about 15 million ISK) that I want moved 5 systems. I make a transport contract that is set to expire in 1 hour (I plan to go grab some dinner and come back to play). I set the COLLATERAL amount to be ABOVE what I believe all that stuff to be worth so that if the EVE pilot tries to **** me over, he looses out. So in this case the total worth is 16 million ISK so I set the collateral to be 20 million ISK. If the pilot runs off with my stuff, then I make out with a 4 million ISK profit. I then offer a 1 million ISK reward for successful completion of the contract. I then log off and go to dinner...
Now let's consider some other possible outcomes... -Pilot hits accept, and then I intercept him with my EVE character, blow up his ship, and take my stuff back to my Dust character. Now I've made a 20 million ISK profit because I got to keep my stuff, and the poor sap who took the contract lost both a ship and 20 million ISK trying to make an easy 1 million. quote fixed
And this happens ALL THE TIME ALREADY in EVE. Pirates will try to put up contracts that are more lucrative than normal in low security space on a route that they have camped in the hopes of doing this very thing. It's been happening for many years now and there are counters to it as well.
Smart players can recognize this stuff for what it is.
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2113
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
I think in the first iteration that if a ship is destroyed, all the Dust gear should be returned to the station it came from or the merc gets reimbursed for the full value of what was lost by the game (rather than the pilot). Using collateral would require full integration with the Eve economy, and I don't see that happening quickly. I'd rather see us getting geography in the game sooner rather than later. Until the economies are merged it would basically be an Eve enabled version of teleportation for yourself and your gear.
With mercenary clones part of the drawback to the technology is that we have to be close to a transmitter when we die in order for us to be "reborn", whereas capsuleers hook into the FTL network built into the stargates to remain connected to their clones. So the way I see Eve passenger transport working is that the contract is to move some of your leisure clones to another station with some kind of transmitter. Once the contract is complete you get an option to jump to that clone. Maybe someday we get the ability to actually be on the ship, but that won't happen for a long time if ever.
We could elaborate on this by allowing Dust corps to rent offices in stations with transmitter / receivers built in and accessible to all corp members. Then for a monthly fee everyone in the corp has easy access to those stations. Of course, to rent that office a director would have to travel there first. |
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