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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
   |
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok CCP, what's up? This game is about being hired to shoot and kill enemies on different planets in different parts of the EVE Universe. But we NEVER leave our quarters on the station in which we start! This means that the starting NPC corporation that you were randomly selected to be in determines the rest of your DUST existence in EVE. Depending on the HQ station location of your starting NPC corporation, you will end up in one of the following solar systems:
Ana, Marthia, Kothe, Soshin, Saikanen, Autama, Jolia, Adacyne, Halle, Egbonbet, Javrendei, Kasrasi, Mesokel, Etav, Gosalav, Charra, Sahdil, Paye, Iro, Mimen, Tidacha, Dihra, Mastakomon, Vouskiaho, Vahunomi, Purjola, Usi, Inoue, Oshaima, Vuorrassi, Atai, Croleur, Ney, Dodenvale, Estene, Uphene, Odixie, Torvi, Ommare, Klaevik, Eldjaerin, Geffur, Dantbeinn, Amo, Freatlidur, Sist, Rokofur, Offugen
Even if you change and join another corp, you are still stuck in your starting NPC corp's HQ location. Unfortunately most DUST players have no idea what this means or why it is so damned important for the success of this game, so I will explain some stuff here.
First off when you first log into a character in the game you are in your quarters. These quarters are located on a space station that is located somewhere in the EVE Universe. How do I know this? Because you are also automatically entered into the LOCAL chat channel. This is the same local chat that any EVE pilot that happens into the same solar system will see. Whenever an EVE pilot jumps from from one solar system to the next, they are automatically removed from the local chat associated with their previous solar system and added into the local chat for the new solar system that they are jumping into.
In DUST, your character can never change solar systems as evidenced by the local chat channel. SERIOUSLY! You NEVER move and you are a prisoner in your quarters! When you join a match, no matter what type of match, your local chat channel NEVER changes. It's still showing that you are in your quarters still trapped in the same solar system. This really fcuks things up later on down the road for integration purposes as I will detail in the second part of this posting.
Next up, what does this 'travel' entail? Well first you have to understand the 'geography' of the EVE universe for starters. Here's are really good link to it:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map
But without a better understanding of it, that is a bunch of colored circles connected by lines. Basically the EVE Universe is divided as follows:
- New Eden (the part of the universe that we know of in the game)
- Regions (there are 64 of these so far)
- Constellations (Molden Heath only has 6 of these)
- Solar Systems (Molden Heath only has 38 of these; most regions have between 35 to 159 of these)
- Planets (each solar system can have between 4 to dozens of these, not all are habitable as described later)
- Districts (only habitable planets have these and there are between 4 to 24 of these per planet)
- Belts (these are asteroid belts found around random planets withing a given solar system)
- Moons (every planet has between 0 to dozens of these)
So just from all of that you can see that is a literal UNIVERSE of spaces in the EVE universe. Space stations are always found by planets, although there can be multiple stations per planet in some cases. So DUST had to limit things somewhat. They started off by limiting things to only the Molden Heath Region and even then to only habitable planets leaving only 25 planets with a total of 245 districts for to purposes of planetary conquest.
Side Note: EVE pilots have to navigate all that siht above. So how do they do it? They use an in game navigator that can find routes for them. All they need to find a system is the first three letters of the name of that solar system. This has created a "short-hand" for typing in destinations that all EVE pilots are familiar with. So if you wanted an EVE pilot to go to Hedaleolfarbor Solar System, third planet, and district number nine, that would take forever to type out even with or without a keyboard. So instead it is short-handed as:
Hed III - d9
All planets are named after the solar system they reside in, planets are numbered using Roman Numerals while asteroid belts, moons, and districts use the normal Hindu-Arabic Numerals. The letters 'b', 'm', and 'd' refer to belt, moon, and district respectively. The Region name is not needed as the in game search engine uses the first three letters of the system name for searches. In this case there are more than two solar systems that start with the letters 'HED". They are: HED-GP, Hedaleolfarbor, Hedgiviter, Hedion, and Hedoubel. HED-GP is out in what is known as the 'outlaw regions' and therefore isn't in Empire controlled space. Hedale... is in Molden Heath, and thus the correct choice. Hedgiviter is in Heimater Region which is near to Molden Heath and also under Minmatar control, but not the right place. Hedion is in the Domain Region under the Amarr control. And Hedoubel is in Placid a conflict region between the Caldari and Gallente. This all becomes readily apparent to the EVE pilots as it shows them how many jumps to get to each place and the route to get there on a 3D map.
Now armed with some understanding of EVE 'geography', we can move on to why this is important to integrating the two games in the future. Please see next post...
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
For starters, if CCP would just change the local chat when going from one solar system to another for matches that would be loads of awesome. What I mean by this is when your character 'loads' into the warbarge, then the local chat should change to be in the same solar system that the fight you are about to be in is located at. then during your wait on the barge and during the actual match your local chat will be tied to where you are fighting. After the match is done and you start loading your quarters again, then it switches back to your starting location.
Why bother with this? Because when you are in a local chat channel you not only get to talk to people in that channel, they will also SEE you in that system. Your presence is now known to them. They will notice and even seek to speak to you on occasion. This will create a better bridge to tie the two games together. Secondly, as a clued in GROPO, you might use the updated local to inform you that an EVE pilot happens to be already in the solar system. Then you can contact them and ask for orbital support. Hell you can just load into the new local chat at the start of a battle and announce the planet and district the battle is taking place at and watch all the EVE pilots get curious and just go there to see what's up.
Next, everyone's been complaining about the costs of battle. How there's no profit in it unless you are some kinda leet cheese of some sort. The payout and salvage is crap and doesn't come close to covering costs etc. Well what would fix all that? A market! With a market you could buy, sell, or trade items to other players willing to do the same and earn another source of "income" from all that salvage that just sits around in your quarters. Even more so, you wouldn't have to grind all four races for faction warfare to get their stuffs. You could just do one, sell the surplus you don't need for ISK on the market and then pick up the gear you wanted from the other factions also for sale for ISK on the same market. Finally it would allow EVE pilots to create all the non-officer, non-faction, stuff in EVE and sell it to players in DUST.
But won't the pilots in EVE try to extort the market for the gropos? They can try. But it boils down to the fact that EVE pilots will undercut each other to make a profit too. So if one puts something up for sale at one price, then next minute someone else will undercut that price by one ISK. The repeats until a buyer buys the stuff or some other line is reached. In this case it would be the 'cost' of producing that item. So yes, in the very, VERY beginning the prices of an open player driven market will seem to be high, but given time they will stabalize just as such things do in the real world. When flatscreen TVs and monitors were brand new, they cost hundreds to thousands of dollars. Now that they are more common, they are a lot cheaper and most people have them. The same happens is EVE whenever a new ship or item is introduced. People 'gotta have it' and that initially drives prices up, until supply catches up and then prices go to a very resonable level again.
But even an initial spike of millions of isk for something in DUST will drive away players and leave a bad impression.. Jesus, I can't seem to make you happy can I... or can I? In that case what CCP can do is 'cradle' the market a little like they do normally. What happens is that the current NPC prices for objects in the game are actually "inflated" as compared to the actual cost to make them. So the NPC stores would still provide the same old dropsuit you love to use at the same price it is in the game now on the open market. However if an EVE pilot were to mine the ore, reprocess the ore into minerals, and then use a production facility with the BPO (Blue Print Original) or limited run BPC (Blue Print Copy) and the minerals to create your dropsuit, it would cost less than what you are currently paying the NPC for it! This means that you would WANT the pilots to make you your dropsuits as they would be able to undercut the NPC prices and sell them to you CHEAPER!!! So to stop the "spike" in prices that pilots may try to push onto the gropos, CCP would just leave the NPC sellers on the market initially and thus this would create an artificial "upper limit" on prices.
This last paragraph should make one thing apparent to you. You are currently paying the highest prices possible for your gear and equipment now in DUST. A combined EVE/DUST market would only result in lower prices. Second, BPO and BPC
Continued on the next posting... |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
So what dose all this marke mumbo-jumbo have to do with traveling the EVE Universe Well currently CCP hasn't figured out a way to combine the markets due to gropos not being able to travel. "Huh?" you say. It's like this. Tea from China comes from, you guessed it, China. That means it's not normally supplied in Europe, but comes from China. If you reside in China, then no problem, you go to the local market and get some. But what about all those Brit's in Europe trying to have tea-time? There is no Chinese Tea on thier market. Walla! Someone imports, or ships, it from China to Europe and the Brits can now have thier tea. This is the same in EVE. Every Region (oh noes, that EVE geography again) in New Eden has its own and separate market associate with it. This means if you want an Amarr laser you have to travel to a region in Amarr controlled space where they are produced and sold. Similarly for a duct-taped rusty Minmatar cruiser, you would have to go to Minmatar contolled space to find it easily. Unless someone else decided to ship the stuff themselves and put it up on a different market (with added profit for them doing so), it becomes difficult to find the right stuff.
Unless you, yourself can travel there and buy it and ship it back yourself. "Aha!" you say, but we have no way to travel as we are prisoners of our quarters in the NPC HQ station that we first enslaved ourselves to in order to become the super soldier gropos that we are now. How will this ever be fixed? Well to be honest there are at least a dozen or more ways to do it that I can think of off the top of my head, but I will only detail a couple here and let the rest of this thread be about suggestions and theories from you the players and the CPM and the devs on what is and is not possible and why.
So my first idea is more of a 'quick fix' that will work for now, but will need to be upgraded to something more later. The travelling quick fix (TQF), as I call it, is in two parts. First, we have to allow the previously mentioned changing of local chat whenever we enter a battle. This must happen to fill out that feel of really being in a full blown universe that spans thousands of light years. Second, there is no way to travel to other markets in DUST to buy/sell stuff. So instead, don't travel. Just assume that all stuff in the current DUST market is combined with the Molden Heath Market. (Yeah I know, the majority of gropos are not actually in Molden Heath.) This would make it so that if EVE pilots want to make and sell DUST stuff, they know that they can take it to Molden Heath, put it on the market there and gropos everywhere can see and buy it. Similarly, stuff salvaged by the gropos can be put on the market, it appears in the Molden Heath Market in EVE and pilots will know to go there to get it. The TQF ONLY works so long as Moldene Heath is the only region in which gropos are limited to planetary conquest in. Prior to expanding, a method for gropos to hitch a ride to other places will need to be created.
Now for one idea of a full on fix for allowing DUST gropos to travel the stars like the EVE pilots do. Again this solution has two parts to make it viable. First, an NPC corp (I suggest InterBus https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/InterBus_(NPC_corporation) as this is kinda what they are supposed to do anyways.) is needed. Now if a gropo wants to go from one station in one solar system to another station in another solar system, he just goes to his local IB (InterBus) terminal and books a ticket as it were. The cost of this 'ticket' would be based upon two things: how far and what's going. By how far I mean how many light years the distance is between the two stations being traveled between. This information is already in EVE as it's the basis for jump fuel costs for jump freighters, carriers, dreadnaughts, super carriers, titans, and other ships capable of travel without using a jump gate. By what's going I mean is it just yourself or yourself and a portion/all of your stuff? You may have noticed by now that everything in both EVE and DUST has a size associated with it. So using your typical tourist (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tourists) as an example, a gropo is about 1 cubic meter in cargo space. Each dropsuit, each tank, each gun, etc. has a similar volume when transported as cargo. (Even blueprints take up space.) So once you figure out how much space you want to transport and how far you do a simple calculation like 1000 ISK per cubic meter per lightyear and you now have a cost for travel. But then there is time! Using the NPC corp IB for travel should take time (like using the city bus does). So I would figure in about 5 minutes per lightyear. One this is all worked out, price is paid, then some 'start travel' button somewhere is clicked, the timer begins.
What happens while in transit? Well for the gropo he just stays in in quarters and do all the things he normally can except join any matches. He can still chat with friends and stuff as normal. Or the player can just log off and come back later after it's done! The timer would still be counting away and thus the travel taking place even when the player is logged off. At the end of the journey the gropos is in thier new quarters in a new station ready to interact with a new portion of the now combined EVE/DUST market.
Part two of the full fix continued on next post... |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Now for the second part of the two part solution. In EVE, the pilots have access to this other "market" called contracts. This is a much more flexible market in that you can buy, sell, trade, auction, etc not just one item but fully assemble things, groups of things, or anything that would otherwise not be able to be put up on the normal market. One exmaple is bookmarks. In EVE a pilot could scout out something somewhere, save a book mark to that location and then sell that on contracts. Another type of contract would be a shipping contract. In this case you ask a potiential pilot to transport X cubic meters of stuff from point A to point B. The pilot has no idea what he is transporting (it is wrapped up in a 'package') and usually pays a collateral fee up front to cover the chance that the package never makes it (damn those pirates). Upon completion of delevery of the package intact and unharmed, the pilot receives both his collateral plus a modest payment to cover his troubles. This later type of shipping contract gives us the flexibility to aks EVE pilots to transport gropos and thier gear all over New Eden. Hell, unless you tell them, they won't even know if it was a DUST gropo they were transporting or not. The benefit for using pilot contract versus NPC InterBus contract is that the EVE player can be hired for less and do it in a lot less time. The drawback is that they could fail the mission (get blown up with your cargo included), but hey that's what the collateral was for. If they loose your stuff you get a full collateral payout. (You just have to be certain to set the collateral amount properly yourself. Oh and what stops an EVE pilot from accepting a shipping contract and then just holding you in limbo? A timer. Once the EVE pilot accepts the contract they have a timer (not sure if it should be 4 hours, 8 hours, 24 hours) to complete the job or loose thier collateral deposit. Again, the DUST player can be logged in or out and it won't matter to the EVE pilot one bit. Hell the best use of this might be to set up a contract the night before, go to bed, and see if someone took and completed it by the next time you log in. If not, you cancel the contract and use the InterBus instead.
- So all this travelling around leads to a problem that EVE has already had to deal with in the past. That is what stops all the gropos in New Eden from travelling to one market hub solar system somewhere and just staying there forever? Well that's easy. Since all but the public matches take place in what is termed "low security space", then if you are in "high security space" you are denied access to all matches except for those public ones. If you want to get back into Faction Warfare or Planetary Conquest matches (or the other category that gets infrequently used), then you have to travel back to a station that is somewhere in low security space. This sort of travel would also encourage gropos to want to base out of systems where they actually own districts for PC battles so that they can see who enters and leaves the local chat channel etc.
- What if no EVE pilot wants to sign on for my contract to take me to such a dangerours place? Then contract them to take you the the last safe system prior to the unsafe space and then use InterBus to take you the rest of the way.
- How will I know where all my stuff is at? Well the Assets tab will have to be updated to show every location where you have stuff, then you can expand each of those locations to see what is specifically at each of those locations. Just like EVE does it now.
- more to be added as stuff progresses...
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
345
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Squagga wrote:I did a thread about this a cople of years ago .. it got so popular that they locked it indefinately. Actually mine was about walking in stations, WiS, but the premise was to be a gateway for things like this. I also thouhgt it would be a better avenue for the player market
While I agree that Walking in Stations (WIS) would be great... I would rather focus on core mechanics of stuff first. Let the EVE game tackle the WIS stuff and take advantage of their work later on. Right now we just need a way to use the combined markets and travel. Get those two hurdles done and over with and this game will start to grow by leaps and bounds.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
349
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
No thanks!
We're dust mercs, we are lore-wise capable of jump cloning to every battle we're sent to. Therefore we should be able to clone jump to any system we want to go to. I refuse to ask Eve pilots to "give me a ride". And if that's your idea, then it sucks ass...
You obviously missed the whole first part about using an NPC corp as the primary method of transit. There is even already an NPC corp in the game that fits this bill:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/InterBus_%28NPC_corporation%29?_ga=1.22455867.1640929137.1365175653
So no need to "...depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me whereever I need to go?" |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
349
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 21:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:[quote=Squagga]While I agree that Walking in Stations (WIS) would be great... I would rather focus on core mechanics of stuff first. Let the EVE game tackle the WIS stuff and take advantage of their work later on. I think it was DUST which was supposed to master WiS, Eve-O just got it started. But that's just speculation on my part.
Unfortunately neither game utilizes it a whole lot. WIS is seen in DUST when you are in your quarters and in the warbarge room prior to a match. It's got a lot of nice detail, but is slower movement, no jumping/running and kinda clunky. The only place that EVE pilots see it is when they are in their captain's quarters and they can at least sit down on the couch in front of the TV and walk out of one of the doors to go look at their currently docked spaceship.
I actually believe that the World of Darkness MMO was supposed to perfect all that stuff.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
350
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Squagga wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
Absolutely, 100%, without any reservations YES. Ithink it would be fun. Not as fun as piloting my own MCC but still fun. OR if you're low on ISK and out of an MCC at the time you bargain up a deal with one of those back stabbing EVE pilots and hitch a ride!
The MCC thing would be another system entirely separate from all this. Basically with an MCC in your corp/alliance you would designate a "jump clone" to be stationed on there with associated suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles for him to use. Then when needed, you would just "clone jump" from where ever you are currently at to the MCC to work out of the MCC until you either clone jump out of there, the MCC blows up, or otherwise becomes nonviable.
MCC's are supposed to be like mini-mobile-stations probably piloted by an EVE player. When in transit they are supposed to be vulnerable to attack from other ships and thus should be escorted by fleets. Once in location over a planet they should enter into a mode of deployment in order to start attacking any of the districts on the planet below. While in this state if anyone attacks it, it would enter into a "reinforced" state where it's basically invulnerable for a time (usuaally 1 to 2 days) with a timer so both the attackers and defenders know when to come back for the final battle as the MCC becomes vulnerable again. Then if the MCC is destroyed, so are all the clones, suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles on board.
Anyways, this was all detailed at the last EVE Vegas event.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
350
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote: My solution to the travel problem is similar to yours except instead of isk per m3 I'd suggest a small surcharge of isk per jump, with a small flat rate fee if it's in system shipping. After all, the mass most of what people in Dust buy, even in the, multiples they're bought and sold in, are rounding error in terms of a transport ship cargo hold, the exception being vehicles of course where your idea makes a lot more sense.
Actually what I suggested was to take into account both the distance traveled (jumps as you put it) AND the size. So as I stated it was 1000 ISK times the distance times the volume.
So if you wanted to transport 10 cubic meters 10 lightyears (about one region's worth) it would cost:
1000 ISK x 10 ly x 10 m3 = 100,000 ISK
The drawback to using this system is the time it takes. it's 5 minutes per lightyear so in this case 50 minutes travel time.
Hiring an EVE pilot to do it faster would require in the millions of ISK to get their attention, but they would be able to traverse the same distance in about 15 minutes or less assuming no issues from pirates etc.
Instead of using lightyears as the unit of distance for charging, it is possible to instead use number of jumps along the shortest route between point A and point B. In the end it results in the same idea.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
350
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 22:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Wait, the MCC's are supposed to use something like the POS mechanics? Haven't null sec POS operators been complaining about those practically since they were introduced?
When that was stated, they were referring to the reinforced state etc. So as I stated, the MCC, if attacked, would be put into a reinforced state (just like you would do to a POS) and then a day or two later you would have to come back when it exits the reinforced state to finish it off. This would allow enough time for both the defenders and the attackers to get any allied help that they might want.
The mechanics of a POS that have been complained about for ages has to do with setting them up and tearing them down again. In the past you would have to online one module at a time and wait for 20 or 30 minutes per module. This meant waiting like 10 minutes or more for the module to anchor itself in space. Then you would have to be there to 'online' it assuming the POS generator had enough PG and CPU to online the module. Then you would wait another 20+ minutes for the module to online before you could then use the module. Depending upon what the POS is setup to do this is several hours of wasted time just sitting there waiting on timers to finish.
However CCP has since reduced all the timers to either nothing or shorter ones (like 5-10 minutes). |
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
376
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 15:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Akira Regendorf wrote:
I agree with some of what the OP says and some of what this guy is getting at.
As far as transfering ourselves we should be able to utilize whatever superluminal communications devices are present to 'cast our consciousness to any station with a clone vat. We would have to pay for the clone and maybe have a modifier for the distance to account for the higher energy cost of farther 'casts. We could have the ability to purchase a storage tank for the clone on the station, so if it's a region we go to frequently we would only have to pay a small amount for the 'cast itself.
This would also mean that we could deploy to any battlefield in New Eden from any location.
Now that just covers our consciousness, which according to lore can be reduced to packets of data, what about physical goods like guns, dropsuits, tanks etc.? For these we would have to rely on capsuleers or the NPC corp mentioned by the OP and could utilize the same system of pricing and such that OP mentions.
"Now wait, if you can instantly deploy to anywhere in New Eden but your gear needs time to transport how is that going to work?" you might ask. My solution for this is that you could have a storage locker on a station, and whatever gear you have in that locker would be available to you at any battle in that region, so you have a locker on a station in Molden Heath you can use the gear anywhere in Molden Heath. If you don't have a locker in a region then the corp you are taking the contract from could provide gear for a price, so if you are jumping into a pub match made by NPC corps, you could say have access to std level gear at a slightly higher than average market price, or access to the 'starter' fits for free. If you are entering a Factional contract they could have access to higher tiers of gear and such but most likely only gear made by that faction, so if you use Cal gear and are doing Gal FW and don't have any of your gear in region well you should have thought that one through. If it's a player (either DUST or EVE side) that is making the contract they could offer whatever selection of gear they want (as long as they own it and it's in a locker in that region obviously) at whatever price they want, it could be free, could be expensive, or they could not offer any and make it a "contractor must supply their own hardware" type of contract.
You start off with a locker in whatever station you start in and can use that gear in any matches in the region. You can then purchase storage lockers in other stations to expand your area of operations, you could also sell off lockers if you have no interest in that system any more. Also Corps would have access to hangars like in EVE, they can have a general pool of gear that their mercs in the region could have access to for whatever prices they want to designate for their troops, also corp members could open up personal storage in the Corps hanger for their own specialized gear.
Now obviously features like this are way out and there are many more areas of this game that needs to be worked on, and this would also require the introduction of a number of systems that don't exist yet (contracts among others) and a revamp of existing systems (like battle finder to filter battles [contract] by region) but I think this would be an awesome way to do things once the time comes.
Corps/alliances would have to set up supply lines like they do in EVE, they could establish a reputation for themselves in various regions that they primarily operate in, again like they do in EVE. It wouldn't limit us with regard to what contracts we can take so, if some scrub gets himself stranded in 0.0 he can still enter pub matches back in hi-sec to earn the isk to get out of there, if you want to deploy with some buddies but are on the other side of New Eden you still can, you may just have to rely on basic gear, or if they are really your friend they could sell you some of theirs.
Just gonna touch on two things here, but first I like some of your ideas. But they are either already accounted for or will introduce an exploit in the EVE system.
First, the "transfer of consciousness" thing is already done in EVE. It's called "jump cloning". You train up a skill (infomorph psychology" and for each level you can maintain another jump clone at another location somewhere whether in a station or a jump clone capable capital ship like a titan, rorqual, or in our case an MCC. And just like you said, this only moves your consciousness and not your gear.
The "magic storage locker" would break the transportation market in EVE. You see in EVE moving mass amounts of minerals from point A at one end of the universe to point B at the other end where they sell for or get used for stuff more profitably is a major part of the game. Now lets say I have an EVE pilot churn out 100's of thousands of tanks. Then I give all these to my DUST gropo alt. He then puts them in the "magic locker" and clone jumps to the opposite end of the same region (skipping pirates, gate camps, and like 20+ jump gates and the time to go through them all). Then at the destination he gives all those 100's of thousands of tanks back to my EVE pilot who also has maxed out refining and salvaging skills. My EVE pilot turns those tanks back into minerals again and I have successfully transported all the materials I needed for a capital ship to be produced with no risk and in a matter of seconds instead of hours and without any help from any escort fleets.
Other than those two things, you have the right idea.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
376
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Posted - 2014.01.23 15:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:okay, I'm in a corp of 400ish people, there is no reason for us to be in any particular system so we spread out in popular systems there are as many as ten of us so one's always online. we create an effective network of impossible to remove spies, all it takes is a careless post in local and we can relay and track you position across new eden.
And you don't think that EVE pilots haven't already done this sort of thing already?
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
376
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Posted - 2014.01.23 15:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
ladwar wrote:"ground pounders" is a term for field artillery.
so you want to move field artillery? best form of it in dust orbital strike from eve ships.... your who idea is falling apart right there already.
TL; DR
it doesn't need to happen and well its not important. look at BF and CoD, some of those locations are super far apart and there is no need for a reason to transport you (w/e your idea of why spawn unlimitedly) to those locations. the best to explain why they don't is because you instantly jump into a new clone anywhere in the eve world when you last one dies, why travel there in person when you can just spawn a new one instantly where ever you are need. waste of energy and time for something that doesn't add to gameplay, sure it might add a few moment of you are really in eve, then awe man this is worse then a loading screen, rage, and go play something else while you make 157 jumps over the course of hours.
Actually the CPM members have stated in the past o these forums that the only major hurdle to implementing a combined market right now is figuring this travel stuff out. Has something to do with ensuring that only one copy of every item is anywhere at any given time and also with not messing up the EVE market with easily exploitable ways to transport stuffs.
So in the end, this really IS the next major hurdle that this game needs to make it across if it has any chance to maintain long term viability.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
377
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Posted - 2014.01.23 15:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote:+1 This is great stuff, I fully support this.
Also we should be called Dust Bunnies
GroPos, Dust Bunnies, Popcorn, Meatsheilds, whatever. Unfortunately anything with the word "bunny" in it has a decidedly Guristas feel to it.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Pirate_Factions
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
377
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Posted - 2014.01.23 15:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Akira Regendorf wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:As regards your gear, how can you have any of the dropsuits you've bought yourself and the attached modules at any CRU on the battlefield even if it was moments ago in the hands of the opposing team? That question has actually been bugging me a little lately. My ideas so far are either every CRU potentially has stocks of every suit and module and what you've bought is the ability to draw one out of the stores for any CRU, Supply Depot or Uplink anywhere in the galaxy, or they're somehow constructed, maybe an advanced form of 3D printing, each time you clone. this is a good point and I don't know, if it was a 3D printing thing and you have purchased the rights to produce x number of that suit/module/ whatever, which makes the most sense to me, then it would seemingly negate the need to transport anything. which would be totally lame 
I'm not touching that part of the "lore" as CCP has already changed how all that works from the beta. Originally, when you bought stuff off the market you weren't actually purchasing the items themselves. Instead you were purchasing a limit number of BPCs (blue print copies) for each of the items you used. Then when you deployed to a battle you used up a clone and one of the limited licensed runs of your gear that you had previously purchased.
BPOs (blue print originals) have unlimited licensing rights and thus allow you to have the right to spawn and infinite number of them. Thus your starting militia fits and gear are BPO's while anything you purchased in limited numbers were only BPC's.
However CCP (for whatever reason) seems to have stepped away from this. So I don't know if it's indeed how they still envision things to work or if they have in fact changed. The reason for the change is that EVE plots need the ability to manufacture the actual item out of minerals from the BPO's and BPC's that they will maintain in order to make a combined market work correctly. This means no "magical 3D printing" of gear on the battle field.
On a side note, back during skirmish 1.0 days, the CRUs were about 4 times the size that they are now and actually had doors on them big enough for a gropo to fit though suggesting that it was more the gear and clones are already supplied inside there instead of created instantly.
Anyways, due to logistical concerns with combining the markets, I'm leaning towards the non-virtual stuff and gear has to be transported idea.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
377
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Posted - 2014.01.23 15:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:
That still doesn't change the fact that we're perfectly capable of clone jumping to every active battle in the galaxy. It wouldn't make sense to suddenly be forced to catch a "space bus" to be able to go anywhere.
My thumbs still points down to the OP's idea.
If I wanted to deal with the hassle of inter-stellar logistics, I'd play Eve...
I didn't say that clone jumping would not be possible. In fact it is already a part of EVE as EVE pilots do it almost daily in some cases. But doing so doesn't mean your gear gets and instantaneous free ride along with you. You still have to have someone or something transport that stuff.
But at least you agree with me on the fact that gropos do in fact need a way to travel from station to station in New Eden.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
381
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Posted - 2014.01.23 17:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:No it isn't. Not in terms of warfare responsibility. Eve pilots are supposed to be forced to deal with logistical issues in inter-stellar warfare. Dust mercs are just the boots on the ground.
It would be stupid to expect of us to care for travelling arrangements and logistics outside the battlefield.
If corporations wants our boots on the ground, then it's their job to deliver the clone packs.
Ok reality check time...
In EVE the DUST mercs are like the new special forces of New Eden. One DUST merc or a squad of them can hold off an entire enemy unit and hold a city by themselves. So lets compare them to the modern day operator. Modern day operators have access to a multitude of gear, weapons, and other supplies. But they don't drag their entire kit with them everywhere they go. They have to make choices based upon what the mission they are embarking on entails. They still take extra gear, and in case gear, but in the end THEY decide that aspect of their logistics. When it comes to getting there, they similarly have a multitude of options on how to do so, but in the end THEY decide the way and route they use to accomplish the mission. It's called 'puttin on the big boy pants' and not having to be told what to do for themselves. That's a major difference between a regular army soldier who only knows to follow his sergeant's orders and an operative that takes on all that responsibility himself.
And even if you don't like the special forces analogy, then use the mercenary one. YOU are playing a mercenary. YOU do NOT have an army of red tape pushers backing you up and telling you what airplane to catch to get to your next mission. YOU have to do that for yourself.
Now go find your big boy pants and start using them.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
397
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Posted - 2014.01.23 22:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Our gear is digital just like our consciousness.
DUST mercs are to Capsuliers as they are to mortals. We are version 2.0. We clone jump as often as needed with no special capsules or limits. We can do it thirty times in one match.
DUST mercs have needs that go way beyond that of normal folk, even the ship jockeys. We need our gear to follow us from one end of the universe to the other at the same speed as our consciousness. We need it to be immediately available at any supply depot we walk up to.
You simply can't do that with physical goods. There is no way you could stock a supply depot with the hundreds of copies of hundreds of different suits, weapons, and modules that mercs own.
The only way is if our gear is simply digital licenses that are used to manufacture our gear on the spot. Sure, it's more expensive than mass manufacturing, but we have a critical need for speed that makes it worth it. The rest of the universe can get by with slow shipping and fragmented markets because they value cost above instant access. That's why the EVE market won't crumble.
;)
While i like this from a conceptual point of view, it doesn't seem to lend itself to proper integration with the current EVE market mechanics. As for the "...hundreds of copies of hundreds of different suits, weapons, and modules..." You haven't seen some EVE pilot's hangars... For that matter many alliances supply ships like this as well only we're talking hundreds of battleships etc.
In the end, I could see a system for jump cloning gropos around New Eden, but that still doesn't solve the problem of getting his equipment (other than the default newb gear and possibly his BPO's) to go with him. Besides which ISK is the most mobile form of this sort of shipping of goods. Assuming supply is meeting demand in all locations, then all you really need to do is hold onto a stockpile of ISK, jump clone to a location, buy the gear you need for your favorite setups from the local market, and then fight.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
398
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Posted - 2014.01.24 16:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:SoonGäó
SoonGäó is not soon enough, imo.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
406
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Posted - 2014.01.28 16:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bumping this for more discussion. And so that the devs see it and realize that players actually want this.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
425
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Posted - 2014.04.02 15:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bumping this thread as it is still not in the game.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
426
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Posted - 2014.04.03 14:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seriously? No one else has anything to say about this? Does this mean everyone agrees with me? No one cares? Did people forget how to type?
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
440
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Major concerns: 1. If you can use the inter bus system to move goods around new eden without the risk of being ganked, this could be abused by EVE players with DUST alts to ferry high value items around New Eden risk-free. It would break the sandbox.
2. What's to stop an EVE player from accepting your transport contract and dropping you off in the most remote location available, or just logging out in space somewhere with you in their cargo hold?
I really don't think this is all that necessary (I agree with the changes to local though). I expect when the market opens up, there will be a lot of opportunities for high sec hauling of goods from trade hubs/production centers to the DUST stations. Where there's demand in the market, there will be supply to fill it. A lot of DUST mercs have EVE characters, you can expect them to fill up the stations for their Merc and then some to make a profit. Also buy orders will be a useful tool for attracting haulers. If there is large demand for an item, you can be sure there will be people looking to profit from brining it to you.
- I admit I had missed that part. But let's assume that the cost to transport your DUST toon along with his equipment in the calculation for distance travelled X volume transported etc will make this style of transportation for the purposes of moving goods around pointlessly expensive.
- Nothing to stop them other than if they DO NOT complete the contract as specified within a specified time-liimt, then they default, you get reset to your original starting point and your stuff (which is now the property of the EVE pilot) is replaced by the COLLATERAL that the EVE Pilot had to pay to take on the contract to begin with.
There are NO DIFFERENCES between "DUST stations" and "EVE stations" they are the same exact things. We are already in the same stations. This whole thing with the different markets in different locations *IS* the very reason that we haven't combined the markets yet. Until CCP figures out how DUST toons can travel, we cannot merge the markets. |
Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
444
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
So I feel that DUST players don't seem to fully understand how the CONTRACTS system works in EVE.
Basically, you set a time limit (usually a day to 3 months) for the contract to be available for someone to accomplish it. (If DUST contracts become implemented, this will need to change to allow for 1 hour increments up to 24 hours.) Then you set whether it is an AUCTION, a SALE, a TRADE, or a TRANSPORT. In our case we would select TRANSPORT. Then you can require a COLLATERAL amount of ISK be deposited by the EVE pilot to be held onto by some NPC commerce company. IF THE EVE PILOT SOMEHOW TRIES TO SCREW YOU OVER, TAKE THE STUFF, BLOW IT UP, LOOSES IT, OR DOESN'T DELIVER ON TIME, OR ANY OTHER THING OTHER THAN DELIVERING YOU AND YOUR STUFF INTACT TO YOUR DESTINATION ON TIME, then you get to keep the collateral and it's as if you just sold all those things to that EVE player for the price that YOU named. Finally, you set an amount of ISK out of your wallet to pay to the EVE pilot upon successful completion of this contract.
So no for example time...
Let's say I have myself (1 m3) plus 100 dropsuits (100 m3 worth about 1 million ISK) and 10 tanks (100 m3 worth about 15 million ISK) that I want moved 5 systems. I make a transport contract that is set to expire in 1 hour (I plan to go grab some dinner and come back to play). I set the COLLATERAL amount to be ABOVE what I believe all that stuff to be worth so that if the EVE pilot tries to **** me over, he looses out. So in this case the total worth is 16 million ISK so I set the collateral to be 20 million ISK. If the pilot runs off with my stuff, then I make out with a 4 million ISK profit. I then offer a 1 million ISK reward for successful completion of the contract. I then log off and go to dinner...
Elsewhere some EVE pilot with a ship that has a cargo hold size of 201 m3 or larger is looking through contracts to make money on transporting stuff. He sees my contract and it's only 5 jumps for 1 million ISK! That's only 5 minutes of work for him since he's already at the starting station. Easy money! So he checks the cargo size needed, finds that he has the available space, looks at the collateral and has more than 20 million ISK in his wallet. So he hits accepts on the contract. A giant wrapped "package" that is 201 m3 is volume appears in his hangar and his wallet is now 20 million ISK lighter. The pilot moves the package to the cargo hold of the ship he plans to move the goods with. He then sets the autopilot of the ship's navigation for the destination station and undocks the ship carrying the cargo.
Away he goes and five minutes later he docks up in the destination system, opens contracts and hits complete. Now he gets his 20 million ISK back from the collateral plus another 1 million ISK that I am paying him from the contract's successful completion. I later log on and find that I and all of my gear are now in a new station in a new system ready to go blow stuff up.
Now let's consider some other possible outcomes...
-Pilot hits accept, and then keeps my stuff... Well at the end of the 1 hour timer that I set in the contract, the 20 million ISK collateral becomes mine and I'm still in the starting station, but much much richer and I can still hire the NPC Interbus company to transfer me my destination anyways.
-Pilot hits accept, undocks and gets blown up by pirates! Sucks to be that EVE pilot. He not only doesn't get my stuff (it either gets destroyed or is looted by the pirates), but now he's lost a ship and will also loose his 20 million ISK in collateral. At the end of the 1 hour timer that I set in the contract, the 20 million ISK collateral becomes mine and I'm still in the starting station, but much much richer and I can still hire the NPC Interbus company to transfer me my destination anyways.
-Pilot hits accept, undocks and logs off or tries to deliver me to the wrong station. The pilot effectively gets to keep my stuff, I re-appear in my quarters in the original station, and at the end of the 1 hour timer that I set in the contract, the 20 million ISK collateral becomes mine and I'm still in the starting station, but much much richer and I can still hire the NPC Interbus company to transfer me my destination anyways.
As you can see, if you use the contracting system correctly (and this system is ALREADY IN EVE) then there is no way someone can easily scam you out of your stuff.
It's not fool-proof and you need to know what you are doing, but the burden of work is on the EVE pilot to make it all happen.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
452
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
By "DUST stations" I was referring to the stations where we are all living currently (you listed them all in the OP).
As to point 1, I don't see how you could make this cost-prohibitive. Many of the most valuable items in EVE take barely any cargo space (e.g. EVE BPOs, PLEX, Blueprints and skill books for super caps, etc.) they are usually transported in fast cloaky CovOps ships and are a big prize for pirates and suicide gankers.
I could also see #2 being a major problem. Nobody wants to spend hours locked out of battles because the new fun thing to do in EVE is to maroon mercs for the LOLs (a little trolling is fine, and part of New Eden, but this just opens the door for nonstop harassment and rage quitting). And if you can teleport back after the contract expires, why can't you just teleport around in the first place? It doesn't make any sense.
I do think it would be cool if we could physically relocate to other stations, but making it so you are spending a huge amount of your time doing so on a regular basis, just to buy/sell and join the battles you want to play just adds a lot of unnecessary frustration and friction to squadding up and getting in matches.
Jadd: "want to squad up?"
Vel0: "sure what are you running?"
Jadd: "Galente FW."
Vel0: "ok, I'm in Amarr space right now, give me 20 to get there."
Jadd: "ok."
...20 minutes passes
Vel0: "ok, I'm here"
Jadd: "one sec, I'll grab you after this match."
...20 minutes passes
Jadd: "Hey my boss called and I have to run to work... Sorry. Catch you next time." /logs out
Vel0: "...."
Vel0 in corp chat: " lfs"
Corpmate: "sure, we're in Minmatar FW, come join us"
....rage...
Again to point 1, I agree, but it's easily fixed... Interbus would be limited to only transporting DUST mercs and DUST gear ONLY. No more exploit for the EVE pilots as the Interbus is meant solely for the usage of non-podded pilots.
Again, as I stated in my original post about this option, if you are worried that an EVE pilot cannot deliver, then you just use the Interbus instead and schedule it for when you log off and are not playing anyways. The idea of using an EVE pilot to do it is only ADDING IN an additional and possibly faster way 9but not without risks). Hell if you are in a DUST corp that is in an alliance with EVE pilots, you can just go into your alliance chat and ask an EVE pilot if they can move you for free if you trust them to do so.
The idea is that you are NOT teleporting. There is NO teleporting in this game. Just because the devs are too lazy to code the in-between moments so that players can understand this better does not mean that we must be teleporting. Hell the inro video for this game even shows one example of how we get from space to the ground via a dropship orbital deployment. (Hence the term DROPsuits.)
Maybe we should stop calling ourselves dust bunnies emphasize that we are drop mercs instead.
I can understand the idea that there could be a lot of "friction" with just wanting to squad up and join a buddy on the other side of the universe, so to fix that (and I think I mentioned it before) you can have multiple JUMP CLONES stationed at various regions throughout the universe.
Hell, for that matter ditch the need for InterBus to transport your character at all. Only use InterBus to ship your GEAR ONLY. Instead allow any dust merc the ability to jump clone to any station in a system that contains planets with combat districts in it. Now in your situation above when 'Vel0' wants to squad up we can both jump clone to anywhere for the fight. Our stuff gets left behind, but we still get access to all our "free BPO" stuff and millitia grade gear. If the station we happen to be going to has our stuff, then even better we can use it. If it doesn't, then we can check the market upon arrival and purchase what we want (supplies notwithstanding). Finally, we can have InterBus moving the bulk of our gear to our new station while we're still just tooling around with militia gear in some scrub matches.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
465
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Posted - 2014.04.09 16:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:After reading the entire thread (phuu), I guess I have to chip in my 2 ISK.
First of, I like the ideas APART from the OPs suggestion that you are limited to battles in high / low sec, unless you relocate. This would only create too much hassle as I usually like to warm up with a public contract before joining a FW. With the proposed mechanics I would have a relocation wait time in between battles as well.
What I totally agree with is the local chat channel changing during battles.... This needs to happen CCP!
Anyway, as I see it we have two problems: Relocation of Clones and Gear.
CLONES
As was stated before, the ability to instantly join battles across the galaxy already have a (official?) lore, I.e clone jumping. With that in mind, you could ask why would we have to hire the interbus to change stations. Well, I think we need to differentiate between lesure clones (in quarters) and combat clones. The leisure clone is special and you don't have millions of them located throughout the galaxy for easy access, so you just have to take the bus if you want to go somewhere. The combat clone on the other hand is different (it's ugly) and can be mass produced with minimal modifications based on the experice of the character "hosting it". It makes sence that CRUs store these clones, which can be hacked to be used by the enemy.
GEAR
This one is trickier, and is the source of CCPs dilemma. As stated before, if the only thing we have in our inventories are blueprints manufactured on-site, it will completely destroy the manufacture idea from EVE. If it is physical gear, how is it transported? My suggestion would be that the CRUs also contains the gear used in battle, thus you actually do not need to transport them. HOWEVER, any gear you loose in battle will be deducted (via agreed contract with the CRU manufacturer) from your storage where your leisure clone is located.
To resolve the problem that the CRUs can't contain all players entire stock, I would like to change the fitting concept.
Basically I think of the different fits as pre-set load outs, which I have X amount of when I go to battle. I.e. I don't bring my entire inventory, just the gear I associate with the different fits. This means that if you have two suites using the same module (let say 1 complex shield extender), if you loose one, the other WOULD NOT decrease in number (as it does today). So to fit 5 suites with the same module, you have to have at least 5 of them in your inventory.
This would (lore vice) limit the available gear inside a CRU (which will still be massive).
One downside with this would be that you are not able to change your fit load out (I.e switch out modules) or restock during battle. What you bring you bring, no changes. You can still have multiple different fits "pre-stored", you just have to select which ones you would bring to the battle.
So, back to the market.
Each merc can trade in the region market they have their leisure clone (merc quarters). If you physically travel to a different region you could access that market, no problem. If you like to join battles from that location, you can only use gear which is located where your current location is. If you want a big stockpile in one place, you need to transport yourself (and the gear) to your "home" station. They could even setup a system where you have leisure jump clones in different regions for easy access (of course determined by cost and new skills), but you still would have to haul the gear where you want it to be.
On your first part... I stated that the public matches (ie. the high and low-sec ones) would be able to be joined as they are NOW. As in you do not have to go there. So your example where you start off the night doing pub matches wouldn't be affected.
I do like your idea of differentiating between leisure and combat clones. If CCP institutes Walking In Stations (WIS) then I highly suggest that happens. However for now, as I stated in a posting above, we don't need to move the combat clones via InterBus or via EVE pilots. Instead we can just assume that every system capable of Drop Clone Combat should have facilities available to allow for you to jump clone to there. In EVE the clones are much more expensive, but in DUST we can assume that due to all combat capable clones being constructed from the same basic "frame" they are easier to mass produce and only the imprinting of the skills and memories is what differentiates them. Thus companies that make them want to encourage you to come to their systems and use their clones (so they can make money off you fighting). In this way DUST mercs can basically clone jump to anywhere, while EVE pilots can only clone jump to specific facilities that they have predesignated.
As for the gear, I like your idea of NOT being able to change your setups in the middle of a match. This makes sense to me. I don't know if you need to do the other part about having fully separate loadouts for each suit, but either way works for me. In the end though, all this equipment would still need to be transported from location to location in the game. You would still have to have either an EVE pilot do it via contract or use the NPC services like InterBus to ship it for you. (Think of InterBus as a UPS or FedEx in this case.). In cases where you are waiting on your gear's delivery to catch up to you, you can still use all the "free fits" and all sites would be seeded with all the Militia variants from the Market. Other things could be there too (and would be if they are popular places as both DUST salvage and EVE industrialists will seed those things onto the market rather than taking them with them). Additionally, you don't have to ship all your stuff with you everywhere you go. In EVE you can leave stuff everywhere if you want to. You could have a thousand different things stations and just jump to them when you want to.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
465
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Posted - 2014.04.09 16:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
knight of 6 wrote:necromancer! renounce your wicked ways!
didn't I comment on this thread like back in January? there is no way GroPos caught on (still hilarious BTW) so it has to be the same thread...
Yeah it was a name used to pique people's curiosity and get them to read about it. As for names, GroPo is not necessary. However I'm starting to think that Dust Bunnies is causing players to forget the two major functions of why our characters exist in the EVE universe. So I now think that the most appropriate name should be:
Drop Mercs
Drop to emphasize that we are in DROPsuits that are DROPped from orbit into a battle on the planet and thus we need to have more involvement with the EVE and space side of things if this game is to ever out-grow it's current infancy.
Mercs because we work for anyone for a price and people need to understand that without a market to trade on we will NEVER be able to fully become self-sufficient and thus this game fails.
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Jadd Hatchen
The Phoenix Federation
545
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Posted - 2014.04.22 14:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Finn Colman wrote:Gaelon Thrace wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:
So no for example time...
Let's say I have myself (1 m3) plus 100 dropsuits (100 m3 worth about 1 million ISK) and 10 tanks (100 m3 worth about 15 million ISK) that I want moved 5 systems. I make a transport contract that is set to expire in 1 hour (I plan to go grab some dinner and come back to play). I set the COLLATERAL amount to be ABOVE what I believe all that stuff to be worth so that if the EVE pilot tries to **** me over, he looses out. So in this case the total worth is 16 million ISK so I set the collateral to be 20 million ISK. If the pilot runs off with my stuff, then I make out with a 4 million ISK profit. I then offer a 1 million ISK reward for successful completion of the contract. I then log off and go to dinner...
Now let's consider some other possible outcomes... -Pilot hits accept, and then I intercept him with my EVE character, blow up his ship, and take my stuff back to my Dust character. Now I've made a 20 million ISK profit because I got to keep my stuff, and the poor sap who took the contract lost both a ship and 20 million ISK trying to make an easy 1 million. quote fixed
And this happens ALL THE TIME ALREADY in EVE. Pirates will try to put up contracts that are more lucrative than normal in low security space on a route that they have camped in the hopes of doing this very thing. It's been happening for many years now and there are counters to it as well.
Smart players can recognize this stuff for what it is.
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