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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
   |
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok CCP, what's up? This game is about being hired to shoot and kill enemies on different planets in different parts of the EVE Universe. But we NEVER leave our quarters on the station in which we start! This means that the starting NPC corporation that you were randomly selected to be in determines the rest of your DUST existence in EVE. Depending on the HQ station location of your starting NPC corporation, you will end up in one of the following solar systems:
Ana, Marthia, Kothe, Soshin, Saikanen, Autama, Jolia, Adacyne, Halle, Egbonbet, Javrendei, Kasrasi, Mesokel, Etav, Gosalav, Charra, Sahdil, Paye, Iro, Mimen, Tidacha, Dihra, Mastakomon, Vouskiaho, Vahunomi, Purjola, Usi, Inoue, Oshaima, Vuorrassi, Atai, Croleur, Ney, Dodenvale, Estene, Uphene, Odixie, Torvi, Ommare, Klaevik, Eldjaerin, Geffur, Dantbeinn, Amo, Freatlidur, Sist, Rokofur, Offugen
Even if you change and join another corp, you are still stuck in your starting NPC corp's HQ location. Unfortunately most DUST players have no idea what this means or why it is so damned important for the success of this game, so I will explain some stuff here.
First off when you first log into a character in the game you are in your quarters. These quarters are located on a space station that is located somewhere in the EVE Universe. How do I know this? Because you are also automatically entered into the LOCAL chat channel. This is the same local chat that any EVE pilot that happens into the same solar system will see. Whenever an EVE pilot jumps from from one solar system to the next, they are automatically removed from the local chat associated with their previous solar system and added into the local chat for the new solar system that they are jumping into.
In DUST, your character can never change solar systems as evidenced by the local chat channel. SERIOUSLY! You NEVER move and you are a prisoner in your quarters! When you join a match, no matter what type of match, your local chat channel NEVER changes. It's still showing that you are in your quarters still trapped in the same solar system. This really fcuks things up later on down the road for integration purposes as I will detail in the second part of this posting.
Next up, what does this 'travel' entail? Well first you have to understand the 'geography' of the EVE universe for starters. Here's are really good link to it:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map
But without a better understanding of it, that is a bunch of colored circles connected by lines. Basically the EVE Universe is divided as follows:
- New Eden (the part of the universe that we know of in the game)
- Regions (there are 64 of these so far)
- Constellations (Molden Heath only has 6 of these)
- Solar Systems (Molden Heath only has 38 of these; most regions have between 35 to 159 of these)
- Planets (each solar system can have between 4 to dozens of these, not all are habitable as described later)
- Districts (only habitable planets have these and there are between 4 to 24 of these per planet)
- Belts (these are asteroid belts found around random planets withing a given solar system)
- Moons (every planet has between 0 to dozens of these)
So just from all of that you can see that is a literal UNIVERSE of spaces in the EVE universe. Space stations are always found by planets, although there can be multiple stations per planet in some cases. So DUST had to limit things somewhat. They started off by limiting things to only the Molden Heath Region and even then to only habitable planets leaving only 25 planets with a total of 245 districts for to purposes of planetary conquest.
Side Note: EVE pilots have to navigate all that siht above. So how do they do it? They use an in game navigator that can find routes for them. All they need to find a system is the first three letters of the name of that solar system. This has created a "short-hand" for typing in destinations that all EVE pilots are familiar with. So if you wanted an EVE pilot to go to Hedaleolfarbor Solar System, third planet, and district number nine, that would take forever to type out even with or without a keyboard. So instead it is short-handed as:
Hed III - d9
All planets are named after the solar system they reside in, planets are numbered using Roman Numerals while asteroid belts, moons, and districts use the normal Hindu-Arabic Numerals. The letters 'b', 'm', and 'd' refer to belt, moon, and district respectively. The Region name is not needed as the in game search engine uses the first three letters of the system name for searches. In this case there are more than two solar systems that start with the letters 'HED". They are: HED-GP, Hedaleolfarbor, Hedgiviter, Hedion, and Hedoubel. HED-GP is out in what is known as the 'outlaw regions' and therefore isn't in Empire controlled space. Hedale... is in Molden Heath, and thus the correct choice. Hedgiviter is in Heimater Region which is near to Molden Heath and also under Minmatar control, but not the right place. Hedion is in the Domain Region under the Amarr control. And Hedoubel is in Placid a conflict region between the Caldari and Gallente. This all becomes readily apparent to the EVE pilots as it shows them how many jumps to get to each place and the route to get there on a 3D map.
Now armed with some understanding of EVE 'geography', we can move on to why this is important to integrating the two games in the future. Please see next post...
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
For starters, if CCP would just change the local chat when going from one solar system to another for matches that would be loads of awesome. What I mean by this is when your character 'loads' into the warbarge, then the local chat should change to be in the same solar system that the fight you are about to be in is located at. then during your wait on the barge and during the actual match your local chat will be tied to where you are fighting. After the match is done and you start loading your quarters again, then it switches back to your starting location.
Why bother with this? Because when you are in a local chat channel you not only get to talk to people in that channel, they will also SEE you in that system. Your presence is now known to them. They will notice and even seek to speak to you on occasion. This will create a better bridge to tie the two games together. Secondly, as a clued in GROPO, you might use the updated local to inform you that an EVE pilot happens to be already in the solar system. Then you can contact them and ask for orbital support. Hell you can just load into the new local chat at the start of a battle and announce the planet and district the battle is taking place at and watch all the EVE pilots get curious and just go there to see what's up.
Next, everyone's been complaining about the costs of battle. How there's no profit in it unless you are some kinda leet cheese of some sort. The payout and salvage is crap and doesn't come close to covering costs etc. Well what would fix all that? A market! With a market you could buy, sell, or trade items to other players willing to do the same and earn another source of "income" from all that salvage that just sits around in your quarters. Even more so, you wouldn't have to grind all four races for faction warfare to get their stuffs. You could just do one, sell the surplus you don't need for ISK on the market and then pick up the gear you wanted from the other factions also for sale for ISK on the same market. Finally it would allow EVE pilots to create all the non-officer, non-faction, stuff in EVE and sell it to players in DUST.
But won't the pilots in EVE try to extort the market for the gropos? They can try. But it boils down to the fact that EVE pilots will undercut each other to make a profit too. So if one puts something up for sale at one price, then next minute someone else will undercut that price by one ISK. The repeats until a buyer buys the stuff or some other line is reached. In this case it would be the 'cost' of producing that item. So yes, in the very, VERY beginning the prices of an open player driven market will seem to be high, but given time they will stabalize just as such things do in the real world. When flatscreen TVs and monitors were brand new, they cost hundreds to thousands of dollars. Now that they are more common, they are a lot cheaper and most people have them. The same happens is EVE whenever a new ship or item is introduced. People 'gotta have it' and that initially drives prices up, until supply catches up and then prices go to a very resonable level again.
But even an initial spike of millions of isk for something in DUST will drive away players and leave a bad impression.. Jesus, I can't seem to make you happy can I... or can I? In that case what CCP can do is 'cradle' the market a little like they do normally. What happens is that the current NPC prices for objects in the game are actually "inflated" as compared to the actual cost to make them. So the NPC stores would still provide the same old dropsuit you love to use at the same price it is in the game now on the open market. However if an EVE pilot were to mine the ore, reprocess the ore into minerals, and then use a production facility with the BPO (Blue Print Original) or limited run BPC (Blue Print Copy) and the minerals to create your dropsuit, it would cost less than what you are currently paying the NPC for it! This means that you would WANT the pilots to make you your dropsuits as they would be able to undercut the NPC prices and sell them to you CHEAPER!!! So to stop the "spike" in prices that pilots may try to push onto the gropos, CCP would just leave the NPC sellers on the market initially and thus this would create an artificial "upper limit" on prices.
This last paragraph should make one thing apparent to you. You are currently paying the highest prices possible for your gear and equipment now in DUST. A combined EVE/DUST market would only result in lower prices. Second, BPO and BPC
Continued on the next posting... |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
So what dose all this marke mumbo-jumbo have to do with traveling the EVE Universe Well currently CCP hasn't figured out a way to combine the markets due to gropos not being able to travel. "Huh?" you say. It's like this. Tea from China comes from, you guessed it, China. That means it's not normally supplied in Europe, but comes from China. If you reside in China, then no problem, you go to the local market and get some. But what about all those Brit's in Europe trying to have tea-time? There is no Chinese Tea on thier market. Walla! Someone imports, or ships, it from China to Europe and the Brits can now have thier tea. This is the same in EVE. Every Region (oh noes, that EVE geography again) in New Eden has its own and separate market associate with it. This means if you want an Amarr laser you have to travel to a region in Amarr controlled space where they are produced and sold. Similarly for a duct-taped rusty Minmatar cruiser, you would have to go to Minmatar contolled space to find it easily. Unless someone else decided to ship the stuff themselves and put it up on a different market (with added profit for them doing so), it becomes difficult to find the right stuff.
Unless you, yourself can travel there and buy it and ship it back yourself. "Aha!" you say, but we have no way to travel as we are prisoners of our quarters in the NPC HQ station that we first enslaved ourselves to in order to become the super soldier gropos that we are now. How will this ever be fixed? Well to be honest there are at least a dozen or more ways to do it that I can think of off the top of my head, but I will only detail a couple here and let the rest of this thread be about suggestions and theories from you the players and the CPM and the devs on what is and is not possible and why.
So my first idea is more of a 'quick fix' that will work for now, but will need to be upgraded to something more later. The travelling quick fix (TQF), as I call it, is in two parts. First, we have to allow the previously mentioned changing of local chat whenever we enter a battle. This must happen to fill out that feel of really being in a full blown universe that spans thousands of light years. Second, there is no way to travel to other markets in DUST to buy/sell stuff. So instead, don't travel. Just assume that all stuff in the current DUST market is combined with the Molden Heath Market. (Yeah I know, the majority of gropos are not actually in Molden Heath.) This would make it so that if EVE pilots want to make and sell DUST stuff, they know that they can take it to Molden Heath, put it on the market there and gropos everywhere can see and buy it. Similarly, stuff salvaged by the gropos can be put on the market, it appears in the Molden Heath Market in EVE and pilots will know to go there to get it. The TQF ONLY works so long as Moldene Heath is the only region in which gropos are limited to planetary conquest in. Prior to expanding, a method for gropos to hitch a ride to other places will need to be created.
Now for one idea of a full on fix for allowing DUST gropos to travel the stars like the EVE pilots do. Again this solution has two parts to make it viable. First, an NPC corp (I suggest InterBus https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/InterBus_(NPC_corporation) as this is kinda what they are supposed to do anyways.) is needed. Now if a gropo wants to go from one station in one solar system to another station in another solar system, he just goes to his local IB (InterBus) terminal and books a ticket as it were. The cost of this 'ticket' would be based upon two things: how far and what's going. By how far I mean how many light years the distance is between the two stations being traveled between. This information is already in EVE as it's the basis for jump fuel costs for jump freighters, carriers, dreadnaughts, super carriers, titans, and other ships capable of travel without using a jump gate. By what's going I mean is it just yourself or yourself and a portion/all of your stuff? You may have noticed by now that everything in both EVE and DUST has a size associated with it. So using your typical tourist (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tourists) as an example, a gropo is about 1 cubic meter in cargo space. Each dropsuit, each tank, each gun, etc. has a similar volume when transported as cargo. (Even blueprints take up space.) So once you figure out how much space you want to transport and how far you do a simple calculation like 1000 ISK per cubic meter per lightyear and you now have a cost for travel. But then there is time! Using the NPC corp IB for travel should take time (like using the city bus does). So I would figure in about 5 minutes per lightyear. One this is all worked out, price is paid, then some 'start travel' button somewhere is clicked, the timer begins.
What happens while in transit? Well for the gropo he just stays in in quarters and do all the things he normally can except join any matches. He can still chat with friends and stuff as normal. Or the player can just log off and come back later after it's done! The timer would still be counting away and thus the travel taking place even when the player is logged off. At the end of the journey the gropos is in thier new quarters in a new station ready to interact with a new portion of the now combined EVE/DUST market.
Part two of the full fix continued on next post... |
Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
335
|
Posted - 2014.01.22 20:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Now for the second part of the two part solution. In EVE, the pilots have access to this other "market" called contracts. This is a much more flexible market in that you can buy, sell, trade, auction, etc not just one item but fully assemble things, groups of things, or anything that would otherwise not be able to be put up on the normal market. One exmaple is bookmarks. In EVE a pilot could scout out something somewhere, save a book mark to that location and then sell that on contracts. Another type of contract would be a shipping contract. In this case you ask a potiential pilot to transport X cubic meters of stuff from point A to point B. The pilot has no idea what he is transporting (it is wrapped up in a 'package') and usually pays a collateral fee up front to cover the chance that the package never makes it (damn those pirates). Upon completion of delevery of the package intact and unharmed, the pilot receives both his collateral plus a modest payment to cover his troubles. This later type of shipping contract gives us the flexibility to aks EVE pilots to transport gropos and thier gear all over New Eden. Hell, unless you tell them, they won't even know if it was a DUST gropo they were transporting or not. The benefit for using pilot contract versus NPC InterBus contract is that the EVE player can be hired for less and do it in a lot less time. The drawback is that they could fail the mission (get blown up with your cargo included), but hey that's what the collateral was for. If they loose your stuff you get a full collateral payout. (You just have to be certain to set the collateral amount properly yourself. Oh and what stops an EVE pilot from accepting a shipping contract and then just holding you in limbo? A timer. Once the EVE pilot accepts the contract they have a timer (not sure if it should be 4 hours, 8 hours, 24 hours) to complete the job or loose thier collateral deposit. Again, the DUST player can be logged in or out and it won't matter to the EVE pilot one bit. Hell the best use of this might be to set up a contract the night before, go to bed, and see if someone took and completed it by the next time you log in. If not, you cancel the contract and use the InterBus instead.
- So all this travelling around leads to a problem that EVE has already had to deal with in the past. That is what stops all the gropos in New Eden from travelling to one market hub solar system somewhere and just staying there forever? Well that's easy. Since all but the public matches take place in what is termed "low security space", then if you are in "high security space" you are denied access to all matches except for those public ones. If you want to get back into Faction Warfare or Planetary Conquest matches (or the other category that gets infrequently used), then you have to travel back to a station that is somewhere in low security space. This sort of travel would also encourage gropos to want to base out of systems where they actually own districts for PC battles so that they can see who enters and leaves the local chat channel etc.
- What if no EVE pilot wants to sign on for my contract to take me to such a dangerours place? Then contract them to take you the the last safe system prior to the unsafe space and then use InterBus to take you the rest of the way.
- How will I know where all my stuff is at? Well the Assets tab will have to be updated to show every location where you have stuff, then you can expand each of those locations to see what is specifically at each of those locations. Just like EVE does it now.
- more to be added as stuff progresses...
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
1457
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I heartily endorse this event or product.
+1
I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - draconian forum overlord CCP Logibro]
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Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
887
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Honestly, GroPos is the silliest abbreviation I've ever heard, you also forgot Halle from the NPC corp list.
But other than that, agreed wholeheartedly.
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Jan. 14th
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Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
576
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
this is very good. its another reason why the game must expand its use of social areas like corp hangouts..they would be the perfect places for mercs to spend time while traveling. |
Fire of Prometheus
DUST University
Ivy League
3102
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
This would make the game 99x more immersive.....+1 :)
Commando 6 // A.R.C Commander // D-Uni instructor
A Balac's and a Thale's.....What's on your commando?
Forum warrior 3
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
36
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Posted - 2014.01.22 20:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I did a thread about this a cople of years ago .. it got so popular that they locked it indefinately. Actually mine was about walking in stations, WiS, but the premise was to be a gateway for things like this. I also thouhgt it would be a better avenue for the player market
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
345
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Squagga wrote:I did a thread about this a cople of years ago .. it got so popular that they locked it indefinately. Actually mine was about walking in stations, WiS, but the premise was to be a gateway for things like this. I also thouhgt it would be a better avenue for the player market
While I agree that Walking in Stations (WIS) would be great... I would rather focus on core mechanics of stuff first. Let the EVE game tackle the WIS stuff and take advantage of their work later on. Right now we just need a way to use the combined markets and travel. Get those two hurdles done and over with and this game will start to grow by leaps and bounds.
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
39
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Squagga wrote:I did a thread about this a cople of years ago .. it got so popular that they locked it indefinately. Actually mine was about walking in stations, WiS, but the premise was to be a gateway for things like this. I also thouhgt it would be a better avenue for the player market While I agree that Walking in Stations (WIS) would be great... I would rather focus on core mechanics of stuff first. Let the EVE game tackle the WIS stuff and take advantage of their work later on. Right now we just need a way to use the combined markets and travel. Get those two hurdles done and over with and this game will start to grow by leaps and bounds.
I want to disagree but I have the sneaking suspicion that you may be right ..
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
494
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:Honestly, GroPos is the silliest abbreviation I've ever heard, you also forgot Halle from the NPC corp list.
But other than that, agreed wholeheartedly.
I initially read it as Gropers...
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
39
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Denak Kalamari wrote:Honestly, GroPos is the silliest abbreviation I've ever heard, you also forgot Halle from the NPC corp list.
But other than that, agreed wholeheartedly. I initially read it as Gropers...
I think that should be the new standard
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Leonid Tybalt
Dark Knightz Corp.
172
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
No thanks!
We're dust mercs, we are lore-wise capable of jump cloning to every battle we're sent to. Therefore we should be able to clone jump to any system we want to go to. I refuse to ask Eve pilots to "give me a ride". And if that's your idea, then it sucks ass... |
Ankbar Latrommi
Immortal Guides
40
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
Absolutely, 100%, without any reservations YES.
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
567
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
more immersion \o/ yay. I always thought of public contracts and FW as the factions hiring you have all the equipment available and just take your stores to replace what you lost when you clone jump to the battle. I can see clone jumping being something very easy to do for a dust merc but moving their equipment around being the logistical part of the game that could really be the fulcrum from this game being a lobby shooter to the mmofps on par with eve.
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
349
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
No thanks!
We're dust mercs, we are lore-wise capable of jump cloning to every battle we're sent to. Therefore we should be able to clone jump to any system we want to go to. I refuse to ask Eve pilots to "give me a ride". And if that's your idea, then it sucks ass...
You obviously missed the whole first part about using an NPC corp as the primary method of transit. There is even already an NPC corp in the game that fits this bill:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/InterBus_%28NPC_corporation%29?_ga=1.22455867.1640929137.1365175653
So no need to "...depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me whereever I need to go?" |
Ankbar Latrommi
Immortal Guides
40
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:[quote=Squagga]While I agree that Walking in Stations (WIS) would be great... I would rather focus on core mechanics of stuff first. Let the EVE game tackle the WIS stuff and take advantage of their work later on.
I think it was DUST which was supposed to master WiS, Eve-O just got it started. But that's just speculation on my part.
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
349
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:[quote=Squagga]While I agree that Walking in Stations (WIS) would be great... I would rather focus on core mechanics of stuff first. Let the EVE game tackle the WIS stuff and take advantage of their work later on. I think it was DUST which was supposed to master WiS, Eve-O just got it started. But that's just speculation on my part.
Unfortunately neither game utilizes it a whole lot. WIS is seen in DUST when you are in your quarters and in the warbarge room prior to a match. It's got a lot of nice detail, but is slower movement, no jumping/running and kinda clunky. The only place that EVE pilots see it is when they are in their captain's quarters and they can at least sit down on the couch in front of the TV and walk out of one of the doors to go look at their currently docked spaceship.
I actually believe that the World of Darkness MMO was supposed to perfect all that stuff.
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
39
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
Absolutely, 100%, without any reservations YES.
Ithink it would be fun. Not as fun as piloting my own MCC but still fun. OR if you're low on ISK and out of an MCC at the time you bargain up a deal with one of those back stabbing EVE pilots and hitch a ride!
Reloading, the silent killer.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
350
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Squagga wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
Absolutely, 100%, without any reservations YES. Ithink it would be fun. Not as fun as piloting my own MCC but still fun. OR if you're low on ISK and out of an MCC at the time you bargain up a deal with one of those back stabbing EVE pilots and hitch a ride!
The MCC thing would be another system entirely separate from all this. Basically with an MCC in your corp/alliance you would designate a "jump clone" to be stationed on there with associated suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles for him to use. Then when needed, you would just "clone jump" from where ever you are currently at to the MCC to work out of the MCC until you either clone jump out of there, the MCC blows up, or otherwise becomes nonviable.
MCC's are supposed to be like mini-mobile-stations probably piloted by an EVE player. When in transit they are supposed to be vulnerable to attack from other ships and thus should be escorted by fleets. Once in location over a planet they should enter into a mode of deployment in order to start attacking any of the districts on the planet below. While in this state if anyone attacks it, it would enter into a "reinforced" state where it's basically invulnerable for a time (usuaally 1 to 2 days) with a timer so both the attackers and defenders know when to come back for the final battle as the MCC becomes vulnerable again. Then if the MCC is destroyed, so are all the clones, suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles on board.
Anyways, this was all detailed at the last EVE Vegas event.
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:Honestly, GroPos is the silliest abbreviation I've ever heard, you also forgot Halle from the NPC corp list.
But other than that, agreed wholeheartedly.
i believe GroPos is a currently in use military term, or possibly it used to be. If I'm right, it would be what the navy or air force called the army.
I know for certain that I've heard it before, In Babylon 5 the actual, feet on planet troops in whatever the human military was called (It's been a long time since I've watched it I may have to pull my DVD's out again sometime soon) were known to the station staff (who were naval personell) as GroPos.
And I doubt that Babylon 5 writers actually made it up.
As to the OP, I've been thinking that the markets need to be linked for a while now. It would fix 'protostomping' as demand for proto gear would drive up the cost and it would fix 'tankspam' for the same reason. It would also add a much needed level of interconnectivity between Dust and Eve as unless you're in FW, the only link currently is Lore. My solution to the travel problem is similar to yours except instead of isk per m3 I'd suggest a small surcharge of isk per jump, with a small flat rate fee if it's in system shipping. After all, the mass most of what people in Dust buy, even in the, multiples they're bought and sold in, are rounding error in terms of a transport ship cargo hold, the exception being vehicles of course where your idea makes a lot more sense.
The crazy thing is, I can already buy infantry equipment on the market in eve if I wanted to. i can tell you, for example, that a Scout G-1 dropsuit costs 3000 isk per unit and has a volume of 0.01 m3. The Uprising 1.8 additions aren't there yet, but that's no big surprise really. Blueprints also aren't available, presumably so enterprising capsuleers can't take their time stockpiling a huge stock of them to flood the market with.
If at least two of us can come up with different solutions, I'm sure CCP can and probably has as well. Perhaps they're waiting until after all the suits, vehicles and modules have been out for a bit to make the market live so that they're not having to seed each one as it's released.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Squagga wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:You mean im supposed to depend on some backstabbing eve-pilot to ferry me wherever I need to go?
Absolutely, 100%, without any reservations YES. Ithink it would be fun. Not as fun as piloting my own MCC but still fun. OR if you're low on ISK and out of an MCC at the time you bargain up a deal with one of those back stabbing EVE pilots and hitch a ride! The MCC thing would be another system entirely separate from all this. Basically with an MCC in your corp/alliance you would designate a "jump clone" to be stationed on there with associated suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles for him to use. Then when needed, you would just "clone jump" from where ever you are currently at to the MCC to work out of the MCC until you either clone jump out of there, the MCC blows up, or otherwise becomes nonviable. MCC's are supposed to be like mini-mobile-stations probably piloted by an EVE player. When in transit they are supposed to be vulnerable to attack from other ships and thus should be escorted by fleets. Once in location over a planet they should enter into a mode of deployment in order to start attacking any of the districts on the planet below. While in this state if anyone attacks it, it would enter into a "reinforced" state where it's basically invulnerable for a time (usuaally 1 to 2 days) with a timer so both the attackers and defenders know when to come back for the final battle as the MCC becomes vulnerable again. Then if the MCC is destroyed, so are all the clones, suits, weapons, equipment, and vehicles on board. Anyways, this was all detailed at the last EVE Vegas event.
Wait, the MCC's are supposed to use something like the POS mechanics? Haven't null sec POS operators been complaining about those practically since they were introduced?
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
350
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote: My solution to the travel problem is similar to yours except instead of isk per m3 I'd suggest a small surcharge of isk per jump, with a small flat rate fee if it's in system shipping. After all, the mass most of what people in Dust buy, even in the, multiples they're bought and sold in, are rounding error in terms of a transport ship cargo hold, the exception being vehicles of course where your idea makes a lot more sense.
Actually what I suggested was to take into account both the distance traveled (jumps as you put it) AND the size. So as I stated it was 1000 ISK times the distance times the volume.
So if you wanted to transport 10 cubic meters 10 lightyears (about one region's worth) it would cost:
1000 ISK x 10 ly x 10 m3 = 100,000 ISK
The drawback to using this system is the time it takes. it's 5 minutes per lightyear so in this case 50 minutes travel time.
Hiring an EVE pilot to do it faster would require in the millions of ISK to get their attention, but they would be able to traverse the same distance in about 15 minutes or less assuming no issues from pirates etc.
Instead of using lightyears as the unit of distance for charging, it is possible to instead use number of jumps along the shortest route between point A and point B. In the end it results in the same idea.
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
350
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Wait, the MCC's are supposed to use something like the POS mechanics? Haven't null sec POS operators been complaining about those practically since they were introduced?
When that was stated, they were referring to the reinforced state etc. So as I stated, the MCC, if attacked, would be put into a reinforced state (just like you would do to a POS) and then a day or two later you would have to come back when it exits the reinforced state to finish it off. This would allow enough time for both the defenders and the attackers to get any allied help that they might want.
The mechanics of a POS that have been complained about for ages has to do with setting them up and tearing them down again. In the past you would have to online one module at a time and wait for 20 or 30 minutes per module. This meant waiting like 10 minutes or more for the module to anchor itself in space. Then you would have to be there to 'online' it assuming the POS generator had enough PG and CPU to online the module. Then you would wait another 20+ minutes for the module to online before you could then use the module. Depending upon what the POS is setup to do this is several hours of wasted time just sitting there waiting on timers to finish.
However CCP has since reduced all the timers to either nothing or shorter ones (like 5-10 minutes). |
el OPERATOR
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
I would gladly ride the New Eden vanpool to work in the morning if it meant I could get a window seat and view the universe as I'm transported across it. Especially if the busstop was right outside my MQ door. Hell, I'll buy a monthly pass.
Open-Beta Vet.
NPC Corp Independent Contractor.
Drunk Night Tree Burner.
This is my Main and Original.
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TunRa
NEW OMENS
404
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Posted - 2014.01.22 22:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like the sound of this, it will also increase scamming. I always felt we need more assholes in dust stealing stuff but it doesn't allow you to do so. And once you scam one person they tell everyone else what you did.
Thanks CCP Foxfour
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1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
905
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 This is great stuff, I fully support this.
Also we should be called Dust Bunnies
The Sinwarden
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote: My solution to the travel problem is similar to yours except instead of isk per m3 I'd suggest a small surcharge of isk per jump, with a small flat rate fee if it's in system shipping. After all, the mass most of what people in Dust buy, even in the, multiples they're bought and sold in, are rounding error in terms of a transport ship cargo hold, the exception being vehicles of course where your idea makes a lot more sense. Actually what I suggested was to take into account both the distance traveled (jumps as you put it) AND the size. So as I stated it was 1000 ISK times the distance times the volume. So if you wanted to transport 10 cubic meters 10 lightyears (about one region's worth) it would cost: 1000 ISK x 10 ly x 10 m3 = 100,000 ISK The drawback to using this system is the time it takes. it's 5 minutes per lightyear so in this case 50 minutes travel time. Hiring an EVE pilot to do it faster would require in the millions of ISK to get their attention, but they would be able to traverse the same distance in about 15 minutes or less assuming no issues from pirates etc. Instead of using lightyears as the unit of distance for charging, it is possible to instead use number of jumps along the shortest route between point A and point B. In the end it results in the same idea.
Route was one of the things I was thinking about, if someone were flying through low sec or Null, there would be a chance that their ship would be attacked and destroyed, to represent that you could have a system in the market in Dust that is a little like the route planner in eve where you could say shortest, which is the cheapest, quickest option, Avoid null, which adds a surcharge if the shortest route has null - sec systems in it or high sec only, which would be the longest route and have a larger surcharge for practically ensuring the cargo gets there. Each jump it goes through null sec or low sec would add a small percentage chance, for the sake of an example something like .5% in low and 1% in null, of the cargo just getting destroyed.
Or is that going too deep into it?
The only problem I can forsee with adding the player market to Dust is the interface. I wouldn't want to be a player who has to wade through the eve market windows and menues using a controller and the Dust Market as it is set up, doesn't show the level of detail a dust player would need to trade across systems.
And you're right, of course, a time factor to the order should probably apply.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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Teilka Darkmist
46
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Posted - 2014.01.22 23:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
TunRa wrote:I like the sound of this, it will also increase scamming. I always felt we need more assholes in dust stealing stuff but it doesn't allow you to do so. And once you scam one person they tell everyone else what you did.
Scamming is a time honoured tradition in New Eden. As anyone who's looked at the local chat in any of the market hubs (especially Jita) can attest to.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be nearer to the opponents redline than my own.
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