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Hey new players! Want to try cloaking??? Tough luck.

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Lonewolf Heavy ROGUE SPADES 46	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:10:00 - [31] - Quote No, which I found odd, I don't like seeing my forge in blueberry hands. They are embarrassing to see trying to hit my commando at 10m out as i pelt them with AR rounds Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
GuyBelowMeSuxs Forty-Nine Fedayeen 15	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:11:00 - [32] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: After some preliminary number crunching, with the proposed numbers, fitting a basic cloak becomes feasible if you've got lvl 3 [race] scout, and are using the advanced version of the scout suit. Of course, I was operating under the assumption that the scout would like to use decent weapons and their second equipment slot. The only way to really use the basic cloak on a basic scout is if you have lvl 5 [race] scout, OR you make large sacrifices to weapons, mods, grenades, and your other equipment slot. Basically, if you want to equip a BASIC cloak on a BASIC suit, you have to: invest tons of SP OR gimp your suit. Nice choices... The SP investment to be able to utilize cloaks well seem too high. You ever play Eve? Dustmerc: GuyBelowMeSuxs 17.2M sp Capsuleer: Newest Guys 870k sp updated: 19/12/2013
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 586	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:17:00 - [33] - Quote GuyBelowMeSuxs wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: After some preliminary number crunching, with the proposed numbers, fitting a basic cloak becomes feasible if you've got lvl 3 [race] scout, and are using the advanced version of the scout suit. Of course, I was operating under the assumption that the scout would like to use decent weapons and their second equipment slot. The only way to really use the basic cloak on a basic scout is if you have lvl 5 [race] scout, OR you make large sacrifices to weapons, mods, grenades, and your other equipment slot. Basically, if you want to equip a BASIC cloak on a BASIC suit, you have to: invest tons of SP OR gimp your suit. Nice choices... The SP investment to be able to utilize cloaks well seem too high. You ever play Eve? Not really. How is EVE relevant to the topic at hand?
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5828	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:18:00 - [34] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134167&find=unread This proposal would allow new players who wish to pursue the scout a quicker way to get into cloaks while still retaining the same long term SP investment. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4511	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:31:00 - [35] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Standard cloak: 35pg Militia Gallente light frame: 24pg So if you're looking to get a cloak, at the very least you're going to have to get a few levels into scout and engineering. I understand that the intention was to dedicate the cloak to scouts, but when their fitting requirements are this prohibitive, why not just make them exclusive to light frames in the first place? Tiericide. Kill the tiers so all players can at least have a fighting chance. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Dreniella Expert Intervention Caldari State 10	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:19:00 - [36] - Quote Hey new players! Want to try heavy weapons? Tough luck. And nobody cares. New players need to first practice basic shooting before they get into advanced game mechanics.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12474	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:29:00 - [37] - Quote Cloaking skill itself could have fitting reduction. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 54	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:31:00 - [38] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cloaking skill itself could have fitting reduction. Man now I have a reason to have the skill past 3 Thnks cpm
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 239	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:35:00 - [39] - Quote Yeah lets skip the sp thing al together so we al can use everything al the time. It's AWSOME that not everyone can have every ring. And it's also AWSOME that as a new player u don't get to try everything of the batt. War never changes
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2922	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:39:00 - [40] - Quote Dreniella wrote: Hey new players! Want to try heavy weapons? Tough luck. And nobody cares. New players need to first practice basic shooting before they get into advanced game mechanics. Why have any militia items then? No.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12474	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:39:00 - [41] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Standard cloak: 35pg Militia Gallente light frame: 24pg So if you're looking to get a cloak, at the very least you're going to have to get a few levels into scout and engineering. I understand that the intention was to dedicate the cloak to scouts, but when their fitting requirements are this prohibitive, why not just make them exclusive to light frames in the first place? Nope the Cloak needs to be hard to fit. Its kinda the end game for scouts. Since when do roles have an "endgame"? This isn't like other RPGs in which you get some kind of limit break as a reward for maxing out your character. This is a mechanic intended to limit the use of cloaks outside the scout class, but what it's really doing is limiting their use outside of those players with large amounts of SP. Gastun's HMG at max skills No overheat. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6063	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:46:00 - [42] - Quote NK Scout wrote: True Adamance wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Standard cloak: 35pg Militia Gallente light frame: 24pg So if you're looking to get a cloak, at the very least you're going to have to get a few levels into scout and engineering. I understand that the intention was to dedicate the cloak to scouts, but when their fitting requirements are this prohibitive, why not just make them exclusive to light frames in the first place? Nope the Cloak needs to be hard to fit. Its kinda the end game for scouts. The whole point for the cloak bonus for scouts was to make it where you dont have to sacrifice much fitting. Yeah but it shouldn't necessarily be that easy to fit for scouts, currently I cant imagine a fit that wouldn't be able to cloak. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12474	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:47:00 - [43] - Quote Commandos maybe? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 3108	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:51:00 - [44] - Quote Personally I'm okay with people not being able to cloak up and run around by simply putting 1 point into scout and 1 point into cloaking. I think you all should be too. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2922	Posted - 2014.01.22 08:59:00 - [45] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Standard cloak: 35pg Militia Gallente light frame: 24pg So if you're looking to get a cloak, at the very least you're going to have to get a few levels into scout and engineering. I understand that the intention was to dedicate the cloak to scouts, but when their fitting requirements are this prohibitive, why not just make them exclusive to light frames in the first place? Nope the Cloak needs to be hard to fit. Its kinda the end game for scouts. Since when do roles have an "endgame"? This isn't like other RPGs in which you get some kind of limit break as a reward for maxing out your character. This is a mechanic intended to limit the use of cloaks outside the scout class, but what it's really doing is limiting their use outside of those players with large amounts of SP. Gastun's HMG at max skills No overheat. Exactly. SP should improve the stuff we already had access to. Not give us all new stuff that we wouldn't get otherwise. No.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 850	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:17:00 - [46] - Quote The cloak is the endgame for a scout, it has to be something to strive for that requires some SP expenditure. Make it too easy and we have to make everything easier. To be a heavy HMG user for instance, requires unlocking the suits which needs more SP, weaponry V, a high level of Engineering and Electronics to fit it and have enought PG & CPU to fit decent modules. Why should scouts have access to such a powerful tool without having to investing in the core and support skills to properly fit it? That said, I'm in favour of a milita version but let's make it so it's CPU and PG needs requires a higher level of core skills to run it. The current TCM for the skills and how some are more 'difficult' to learn and need more effort from the player is about the only balanced thing in the game. Let's not mess around with it please. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2922	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:19:00 - [47] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: The cloak is the endgame for a scout, it has to be something to strive for that requires some SP expenditure. Make it too easy and we have to make everything easier. To be a heavy HMG user for instance, requires unlocking the suits which needs more SP, weaponry V, a high level of Engineering and Electronics to fit it and have enought PG & CPU to fit decent modules. Why should scouts have access to such a powerful tool without having to investing in the core and support skills to properly fit it? That said, I'm in favour of a milita version but let's make it so it's CPU and PG needs requires a higher level of core skills to run it. The current TCM for the skills and how some are more 'difficult' to learn and need more effort from the player is about the only balanced thing in the game. Let's not mess around with it please. So you're against the militia forge gun? No.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 1013	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:21:00 - [48] - Quote So how is this different from old players like me who hasn't skilled into scout at all?
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 135	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:25:00 - [49] - Quote The flip side of this problem. Which I'm pretty sympathetic to, is that if the fitting costs aren't prohibitive then any suit can fit them win out having to sacrifice much else, and then we have the problem of cloaking slayer logis or whatever. It has to be high and then reduced down to the ground by the suit that is intended to run it the most. In EvE this is handled by role bonuses on suits, and to my mind they work admirably. If the cloak is a scout essential then the suit should just have a CPU and pg reduction built into it that doesn't require skill ranks to make it workable. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 549	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:25:00 - [50] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Personally I'm okay with people not being able to cloak up and run around by simply putting 1 point into scout and 1 point into cloaking. I think you all should be too. But how would you test it out? Got to remember that a new player has no idea the role they will take so they are trying everything for the first time. They try a scout and immediately think it sucks because no cloak. Not that this is anything new here. CCP hates New players. They thrust then into the deep end of the pool way to early. They've designed a game around proto stomping because the other game modes are so limited. They don't get to try all the weapons, they are running blind. Yep just chalk this up as another mark against the NPE.

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 2101	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:26:00 - [51] - Quote So again only vets that save up SP are going to be aible to actually use the new toys. Seems like CCP continues their idea for "n00bs must be stomped, vets must be strenghten". I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2923	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:42:00 - [52] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: So how is this different from old players like me who hasn't skilled into scout at all? You still have points in engineering (I should hope) and access to better suits. No.
ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1968	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:49:00 - [53] - Quote so just looking at the numbers this is something logi( gallente really) really only have access to will the most ability to use in decent fit and the rest is HTFU, atleast you can dream about fitting it. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2923	Posted - 2014.01.22 09:59:00 - [54] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: The flip side of this problem, which I'm pretty sympathetic to, is that if the fitting costs aren't prohibitive then any suit can fit them win out having to sacrifice much else, and then we have the problem of cloaking slayer logis or whatever. It has to be high and then reduced down to the ground by the suit that is intended to run it the most. In EvE this is handled by role bonuses on suits, and to my mind they work admirably. If the cloak is a scout essential then the suit should just have a CPU and pg reduction built into it that doesn't require skill ranks to make it workable. Sure, there needs to be some sort of limitation for non-scouts. But this method of doing so limits noobs more than non-scouts. If CCP felt the need to take it this far, they may as well have just made the Cloak into the scout equivalent of the heavy weapon. No.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 444	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:01:00 - [55] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Yet I really don't care.... why is that? because you have no soul A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2715	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:08:00 - [56] - Quote Being a rookie is hard. If they could fit a militia cloak they'd all be hiding the whole match, ruining their fits just to carry a cloak. I agree that it should be something for true scouts to work towards because it will be so powerful. Learn to be stealthy without one first. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Marc Rime 228	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:12:00 - [57] - Quote So a cloak is hard to fit on a militia light, just as it would be hard to fit on militia mediums, no? I don't see the problem with that. For new players who'd like to try playing with a cloak without having to spend SP they could just add a few AUR scouts that come equipped with a cloak (and have the rest of the modules built into the stats and no or few free slots) -- that's kinda the business model they have anyway.
Marc Rime 228	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:16:00 - [58] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: In EvE this is handled by role bonuses on suits, and to my mind they work admirably. If the cloak is a scout essential then the suit should just have a CPU and pg reduction built into it that doesn't require skill ranks to make it workable. I got the impression they were (thankfully!) talked into making scouts viable regardless of whether they choose to carry a cloak.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 231	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:19:00 - [59] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: After some preliminary number crunching, with the proposed numbers, fitting a basic cloak becomes feasible if you've got lvl 3 [race] scout, and are using the advanced version of the scout suit. Of course, I was operating under the assumption that the scout would like to use decent weapons and their second equipment slot. The only way to really use the basic cloak on a basic scout is if you have lvl 5 [race] scout, OR you make large sacrifices to weapons, mods, grenades, and your other equipment slot. Basically, if you want to equip a BASIC cloak on a BASIC suit, you have to: invest tons of SP OR gimp your suit. Nice choices... The SP investment to be able to utilize cloaks well seem too high. While I don't really agree with it (as I'm somewhat opposed to the idea of combat cloaks in the first place) would you really want everyone who tosses on any scout suit to have the ability to run around invis? The proposed role bonus changes would affect dragonfly, dren and any other scout variant. A good scout can already be enough of a terror that a lot of them running around could very well be the next fotm.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2923	Posted - 2014.01.22 10:20:00 - [60] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: So a cloak is hard to fit on a militia light, just as it would be hard to fit on militia mediums, no? I don't see the problem with that. For new players who'd like to try playing with a cloak without having to spend SP they could just add a few AUR scouts that come equipped with a cloak (and have the rest of the modules built into the stats and no or few free slots) -- that's kinda the business model they have anyway. It's not hard to fit on a militia light, it's impossible. No.



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