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Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 07:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
When asked, many players will agree that the redline ruins the game, it allows for dirty snipers and tankers to sit back and be safe from many things, but is it all that bad? No, as we've seen from Ambush, without a redline the entire game turns to ****, do not deny it.. "Oh, I've had some good games in ambush!" What, for just you? Yeah, most likely. Something needs to stay in place to allow for players to regroup and push again rather than just spawning in and dying.
The idea focuses on the Mobile Command Centre, a while back we saw MCCs moving at a slow pace to attempt to dock at the enemy outpost, is was an entire gamemode that many of you will of never have played, but if it should ever make a reappearance I believe this could tie in with it nicely.
I propose the removal of the redline and introducing introducing a Green and Yellow Zone.What is this you ask? These Zones are areas surrounding the MCC. The Green belonging to your MCC and the Yellow belonging to the enemy. The zones would be a fair size surrounding their MCC in an oval radius (because the MCCs are long but not as wide, so a oval radius must be applied.) and would go from the ground up to to the limit in the sky. (Sort of important.)
The MCCs electronic equipment and scanners would render much of the enemy equipment useless, blocking their scans, uplinks, nanohives and cloaks, and would have a passive scan picking up any enemy Infantry and vehicles no matter how stealthy they try to make themselves, This would be a great advantage for players pushed back to their zone to try and fight back.
Next, Buffed Installations on the MCC would be able to shoot at Infantry and Vehicles easily but would be restricted to the zone, unable to fire out of it, the moment it leaves the zone it disappears. These Installations MUST be manned and would only become activated when enemy Infantry come close to the zones. This provides a counter to the enemies that are really pushing hard. Also, like the MCC it cannot be taken down by the weapons we currently have.
Now, the above is all well and good, but players aren't idiots and they will find a way to get past the defences and just not allow players out of the MCC (any of you guys remember pushing either MCC on Manus Peaks and just farming this **** out of it from the distance? This will happen.) so there needs to be a counter to this. Now, take a look at this video at around 1:30, now it isn't exactly what I envision but something similar being able to be activated from the MCC. It would be a Pod you could enter, set the area you want to land in and could be seen shooting across the map by everyone, but would provide a way for you to get away from your zone and start the fight anew.
To balance the pod, it should only be activated when enemies get within a certain radius of the zone, or the enemy controls all the points. Allow me to explain why. The radius is there to stop players simply leaving a single point and just camp outside the zone and the point. And the point could be explained as a offensive option utilised by your commander to attempt to salvage the operation.
When entering the Pod, it should bring up the map and you should be able to select an area to be launched towards. think of the map showing a FoV looking towards the battlefield, it would have a limit to its range and you would only be able to click an area within this FoV, any where else would either give you an invalid option or possibly attempt to fire you towards it but land you at the edge of the FoV as close as it could get you.
Finally, WP should be changed for these zones. You will receive no WP for killing from your zone nor firing into the zone, HOWEVER, you can gain WP for killing those within your own zone. To prevent players from abusing any of this, if you enter a zone and then run away, the defenders can still gain WP until you've been out for 20 seconds, same the other way around, if you run out of your zone and then retreat back in, the enemy can kill you for 20 seconds and still gain WP. This I believe would also help those chasing down vehicles only to have them attempt to hide in a safe-ish zone.
Now, I know this is a lot of words for many of you so I will give you your TL;DR
P1. Remove the Redline
P2. Focus shift to MCC
P3. Implement Green/Yellow Zone that surrounds the MCC
P4. MCC will run continuous scans picking up enemies, most equipment will not work in the yellow zone.
P5. Manned, stronger Installations that protect the zone. Will be deactivated when no enemies are near and cannot be fired outside of the zone.
P6. Pods would allow for players to escape the MCC when enemy is pushing hard.
P7. Pods would only be activated once the enemy nears the zone or controls all points
P8. You will be able to set the destination of your Pod using the Map, Pods have a limit on where they can travel.
P9. WP adjustments for each zone removes the WP gain for shooting from the zone or shooting into it.
Thoughts?
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
850
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Posted - 2014.01.21 07:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
how about just removing the redline....
it surves no function right now and your idea is more convoluted then anything else in the game |
Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:how about just removing the redline....
it surves no function right now and your idea is more convoluted then anything else in the game
It serves* a major function right now, it allows for the enemy team not to completely pin you down, you're able to reorganize and push out, it's helped plenty of times in getting my squad together and pushing out rather than spawning in and dying repeatedly. Soz if you're only going up against newberries who can never push you back :)
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Teilka Darkmist
21
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
How about you work as a team and communicate, get snipers to take out redline infantry and get rail tanks for redline tanks. Then nothing needs to be changed
'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
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Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:How about you work as a team and communicate, get snipers to take out redline infantry and get rail tanks for redline tanks. Then nothing needs to be changed
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Teilka Darkmist
21
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be near the opponents redline than own.
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Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot.
I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Slightly-Mental
Planetary Research and Investments
Ash's to Ash's
67
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot. I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not.
ANTI-TANK WARFARE
as you and others say only tanks should take out tanks, I would like to hear you thoughts after going to that link |
Jason Pearson
4061
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Slightly-Mental wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot. I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not. ANTI-TANK WARFAREas you and others say only tanks should take out tanks, I would like to hear you thoughts after going to that link. also The RPG-29 is a shoulder-launched, tube-style, breech-loading weapon designed to be carried and used by a single soldier. On the top of the launch tube is the 2.7+ù 1P38 optical sight. On the bottom of the tube is a shoulder brace for proper positioning along with a pistol grip trigger mechanism. A 1PN51-2 night sight can be fitted. The RPG-29 is unusual among Russian anti-tank rocket launchers in that it lacks an initial propellant charge to place the projectile at a safe distance from the operator before the rocket ignites. Instead, the rocket engine starts as soon as the trigger is pulled, and burns out before the projectile leaves the barrel. might want to tell the guys in the middle east that it should take a tank to knock out another tank.
Is this post aimed at me? You may want to reread what I posted. Also balancing off of realism is weakground in a Video Game, my favourite argument for this that nobody can seem to counter is the fact that IN REAL LIFE, when you lose a tank, you're either dead or somehow survive, chances are you're not going be BUYING another one, if you're with the armed forces, it's more likely they'll be providing another tank. In DUST, I die, respawn and have to buy ANOTHER tank out of my pocket :)
Oh and, shields.
Edit: you ninja'd the very last bit in, care to explain why the oval suggestion is an exploit waiting to happen? Would a rectangle appeal to you more? :P
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
488
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Slightly-Mental wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot. I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not. ANTI-TANK WARFAREas you and others say only tanks should take out tanks, I would like to hear you thoughts after going to that link. also The RPG-29 is a shoulder-launched, tube-style, breech-loading weapon designed to be carried and used by a single soldier. On the top of the launch tube is the 2.7+ù 1P38 optical sight. On the bottom of the tube is a shoulder brace for proper positioning along with a pistol grip trigger mechanism. A 1PN51-2 night sight can be fitted. The RPG-29 is unusual among Russian anti-tank rocket launchers in that it lacks an initial propellant charge to place the projectile at a safe distance from the operator before the rocket ignites. Instead, the rocket engine starts as soon as the trigger is pulled, and burns out before the projectile leaves the barrel. might want to tell the guys in the middle east that it should take a tank to knock out another tank.
They can't destroy the Abrams in the middle east, all they do is cause concussive damage to the crew, which kills them. :/
the tanks are then abandoned if there are not enough able crew left over to reclaim the tank, and an internal set of detonators are used to make sure the engine and firing mechanisms inside the tank are destroyed.
The "infamous' HEAT rounds even have plating designed just for them.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Slightly-Mental
Planetary Research and Investments
Ash's to Ash's
67
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Didn't word the oval suggestion and exploit right hence that's why i removed it. sry :)
My post was aimed at everyone who crys "It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank"
the issue of "Also balancing off of realism is weak ground in a Video Game" I posted the info of the RPG-29 for one reason, and one reason only.
SWARM LAUNCHERS
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Jason Pearson
4061
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Slightly-Mental wrote:Didn't word the oval suggestion and exploit right hence that's why i removed it. sry :)
My post was aimed at everyone who crys "It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank"
the issue of "Also balancing off of realism is weak ground in a Video Game" I posted the info of the RPG-29 for one reason, and one reason only.
SWARM LAUNCHERS
I don't believe a weapon that locks on should be as strong as something you have to aim and fire at. It should be strong enough to fight light vehicles, and it should be fast, but it shouldn't ever have high alpha.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Teilka Darkmist
23
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Slightly-Mental wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot. I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not. ANTI-TANK WARFAREas you and others say only tanks should take out tanks, I would like to hear you thoughts after going to that link. also The RPG-29 is a shoulder-launched, tube-style, breech-loading weapon designed to be carried and used by a single soldier. On the top of the launch tube is the 2.7+ù 1P38 optical sight. On the bottom of the tube is a shoulder brace for proper positioning along with a pistol grip trigger mechanism. A 1PN51-2 night sight can be fitted. The RPG-29 is unusual among Russian anti-tank rocket launchers in that it lacks an initial propellant charge to place the projectile at a safe distance from the operator before the rocket ignites. Instead, the rocket engine starts as soon as the trigger is pulled, and burns out before the projectile leaves the barrel. might want to tell the guys in the middle east that it should take a tank to knock out another tank.
Quick point, I said only tanks and heavy weapons should be able to take out tanks with heavy weapons sacrificing range for the agility of the weapon being man-portable. I should probably add that remote exposives being able to take out a tank makes sense to me.
@Slightly mental I meant that when a sniper or tank is capable of hitting when it shoots it should also be at risk of being hit with similarly long ranged weapons. In short if someone's hiding in the redline with a tank or sniper rifle, get a tank or sniper rifle to deal with them (if you don't have one chances are someone on your team does). We aren't and shouldn't be one person armies. If you want that go to Mass Effect or Halo or something like that.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be near the opponents redline than own.
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Jackof All-Trades
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
338
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 for skirmish 1.0
"Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
\
Omni-Specialist
/ Focus: Gallente
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Jason Pearson
4061
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:
Quick point, I said only tanks and heavy weapons should be able to take out tanks with heavy weapons sacrificing range for the agility of the weapon being man-portable. I should probably add that remote exposives being able to take out a tank makes sense to me.
@Slightly mental I meant that when a sniper or tank is capable of hitting when it shoots it should also be at risk of being hit with similarly long ranged weapons. In short if someone's hiding in the redline with a tank or sniper rifle, get a tank or sniper rifle to deal with them (if you don't have one chances are someone on your team does). We aren't and shouldn't be one person armies. If you want that go to Mass Effect or Halo or something like that.
There should be numerous counters to each playstile, there should be no redlines. A scout should be able to sneak up behind a sniper anywhere and knife him in the back, a Dropship should be able to hover over a tank and smash him off his well defended area. IF you can't push the railtank off, because it destroys every tank you've thrown at it, well you're ****** and now you don't get to have any vehicles because the redline tank just sits here killing everything that comes in on the RDV. I do it, it's funny. "Oh look, an Assault Dropship" *pop* "Oh look an RDV" *pop* etc after destroying like 8 rail tanks, they realize they can't do **** and give up.
And good luck getting heavy weapons near to me, I'm only able to be hit from the mountain about 400m away and your forge can only hit 300m, what a shame.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
489
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Posted - 2014.01.21 10:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Or... one could simply retune the redline instead of removing it in entirety...
First by extending the area of all prior redline areas, and then designating it with an orange border to differentiate the regions.
However, if you travel into the enemy orange line the further you go the LESS your maximum armor and shield become, and if you exit the orange, they restore to normal.
If you've ever played Runescape and tried the "Wilderness" before you'd know how these advancing regions work, but instead of going up a wilderness level, the affected party looses max HP relative to the tier they enter... so..
Outside of orange 100% all stats,
Area 1 --90% shield and armor (largest region mainly for deployment)
Area 2 (within handheld range of spawn) -50% shield and armor and -10% weapon damage
Area 3 (inside spawn proximity regions) -80% shield and armor and - 30% weapon damage
Vehicles will be targeted by automated services whose power and accuracy is determined by the area that they are occupying, as well as they will receive the same penalties as suits. (or indestructible very-short-range manual turret systems that can target things within the region only, but loose power if the target is in a lower ranked region)
This way the complainers could run into the orange line to deal with troops they feel to be problematic. Would probably promote heavily dampened scouts.
Example,
If I had 100 shield and 100 armor, and ran into area 3, I would be left with 20 shield and 20 armor, and would not be able to heal over that until I left into area 2, then I would be able to heal back up to 50/50... and upon leaving all zones would be back to 100/100 maximum possible healing.
Anyway, this is just a cursory driveling and I believe it would hurt the people demanding the redline be removed the most.
If you can read this, it means you are reading.
Unless you are skimming
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Slightly-Mental
Planetary Research and Investments
Ash's to Ash's
67
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Posted - 2014.01.21 10:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:
There should be numerous counters to each playstile, there should be no redlines. A scout should be able to sneak up behind a sniper anywhere and knife him in the back, a Dropship should be able to hover over a tank and smash him off his well defended area. IF you can't push the railtank off, because it destroys every tank you've thrown at it, well you're ****** and now you don't get to have any vehicles because the redline tank just sits here killing everything that comes in on the RDV. I do it, it's funny. "Oh look, an Assault Dropship" *pop* "Oh look an RDV" *pop* etc after destroying like 8 rail tanks, they realize they can't do **** and give up.
And good luck getting heavy weapons near to me, I'm only able to be hit from the mountain about 400m away and your forge can only hit 300m, what a shame.
I fully agree with this. And as a sniper I've had numerous scouts sneak up and knife me.
But I dont want to see the redline totally removed. We both have seen what happens when there isn't some sorta safe zone.
reduce the redline, adjust the spawn points, and make it so nobody can shot in or out of it.
But, not all the maps we have now would fully support this, or your oval idea, hence lets get new maps with a reducing redline first. Then fine tune.
I also believe that infantry should be able to pop tanks, and swarms shouldn't of been nerfed as hard as they did, adjusted but not made useless. And the icing on the cake is, we wouldn't have this problem of redline tanks, if lessons were learned, from closed beta.
Its my believe, that at this present time they are more pressing matters that need addressing before the redline issue.
A number of roles/weapons are broke, and need fixing.
Academy needs a total rewrite.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1260
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Posted - 2014.01.21 10:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
nup. Bad idea is bad.
Your opinion is worthless because you're a git.
Honestly, what's stopping me from railing the sh*t out of the inactive installations? Do they simply have no aggressive AI, and are passive, until the MCC is over them?
Where would the MCCs move to? Would the home sides need to be redrawn? Would maps need to be redesigned?
Good ideas all, but the amount of work I suspect this major a rework would require (and not simply from one team, like tanks were) means it'd be well and truly on the back burner.
(Turns into a bit of a stream-of-consciousness - actual feedback is above  )
Why not just remove WP and ISK gained from time spent in the redline, and from kills etc on people in the redline? That way newbs aren't punished for getting redlined, and you get literally no benefit from hanging out in the redline, and also dramatically disincentivise redlining in the first place.
I could see myself redline railing for a specific target, but in no way would I be spending the whole match there, as I see so often these days.
To be more specific, no in-match active SP could be gained from the redline, and ISK profits would be cut dramatically because of the few WP people would get. I'd also like maps extended, so that the redlines are further apart, and maybe have a home spawn outside the friendly redline, in approximately the same place as they are now, thereby not impacting too dramatically the current meta game of quick point capturing at the start of the match, but also providing a safe spawn if you're pushed out completely.
Maybe that spawn could be disabled if reds are inside 150m?
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Big Popa Smurff
The Rainbow Effect
924
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1 I like it. it completey unique and is the kind of game mode dust should have already. It doesnt just remove the redline problem but could add something new to game.
Dust has become too repetitive for me, its the same thing over and over that i could do anywhere else in any other game.
For a game that iv played for more than a year, its amazing that there has only been 3 game types introduced in that length of time. The original skirmish could count as a fourth if it wasnt removed.
Original AFK Hunter
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
579
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'd say it's an interesting idea, but you are overcomplicating things slightly. The problem with the redline is that it's not used for its intended purpose. People who stay in the redline sniping (whether they are a tank or infantry), can do so because of MAP DESIGN. If the redline is below the "sea-level" of the burnzone, then it doesn't matter who stays in the redline, they can't shoot the battlefield anyway, and you still get the utility of the redline - that is, allowing a regrouping of sorts of an enemy team if they are overwhelmed... |
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1262
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:I'd say it's an interesting idea, but you are overcomplicating things slightly. The problem with the redline is that it's not used for its intended purpose. People who stay in the redline sniping (whether they are a tank or infantry), can do so because of MAP DESIGN. If the redline is below the "sea-level" of the burnzone, then it doesn't matter who stays in the redline, they can't shoot the battlefield anyway, and you still get the utility of the redline - that is, allowing a regrouping of sorts of an enemy team if they are overwhelmed...
The issue with that is that in DUST, as ever, high ground is a great advantage.
It'd make redlining rather easier if I can't be shot back effectively, simply by hiding on the edge of the hill. As opposed to the reverse, as it is now.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Jason Pearson
4066
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 11:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't like you people.
Just give me my pod.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1262
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 11:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:I don't like you people.
Just give me my pod.
I hear CCP has another game that's all about pods; just a rumour though...
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Teilka Darkmist
24
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anyone who thinks that CCP didn't realise that redline sniping and redline railtanking would be a thing just isn't thinking straight. This is a game company that has included corporate espionage into their flagship game. For ten years they've seen the players use the ships and modules they've been given in ways that are way outside what they were originally designed for. They knew this would happen and fully expect that their players , using what is already available, are smart enough to come up with a solution. Because they've seen it happen again and again. The big answer to redlinesniping and tanking is teamwork. You say a tank is picking off tanks that try to take ot out? What about two tanks at once? A solo redline sniper is somehow evading your snipers? Try countering with a rail tan, overkill for sure, but still deals with the sniper. And these are just solutions off the top of my head as I type. A good corp will come up with tactics to counter strategies and come up with strategies of their own. If you want to be personal gain oriented spread your sp out amongst everything and see how far that gets you. My bet would be stuck into PvE when they eventually implement it.
Tl:dr - try working as a team in this team based game.
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be near the opponents redline than own.
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Jason Pearson
4066
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Anyone who thinks that CCP didn't realise that redline sniping and redline railtanking would be a thing just isn't thinking straight. This is a game company that has included corporate espionage into their flagship game. For ten years they've seen the players use the ships and modules they've been given in ways that are way outside what they were originally designed for. They knew this would happen and fully expect that their players , using what is already available, are smart enough to come up with a solution. Because they've seen it happen again and again. The big answer to redlinesniping and tanking is teamwork. You say a tank is picking off tanks that try to take ot out? What about two tanks at once? A solo redline sniper is somehow evading your snipers? Try countering with a rail tan, overkill for sure, but still deals with the sniper. And these are just solutions off the top of my head as I type. A good corp will come up with tactics to counter strategies and come up with strategies of their own. If you want to be personal gain oriented spread your sp out amongst everything and see how far that gets you. My bet would be stuck into PvE when they eventually implement it.
Tl:dr - try working as a team in this team based game.
Um, CCP put in a null cannon that was blocked by map objects. The same company made vehicles require ammo and yet forgot to add accessible supply depots, the same company that created a mode that allows for an insane amount of ISK to be generated per day for a single group of people (oh and is worried about EVE affecting DUST when ISK is already not an issue). The same people the released DUST without it having racial suits or weapons. etc
I don't think you quite get it, I'm not looking to counter anyone, I'm looking for a way to let people counter ME because I am the redline tank we're talking about, the one that will dominate 90% of the matches I'm in and completely denies every vehicle access. It's ridiculous.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1078
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 11:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Slightly-Mental wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot. I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not. ANTI-TANK WARFAREas you and others say only tanks should take out tanks, I would like to hear you thoughts after going to that link. also The RPG-29 is a shoulder-launched, tube-style, breech-loading weapon designed to be carried and used by a single soldier. On the top of the launch tube is the 2.7+ù 1P38 optical sight. On the bottom of the tube is a shoulder brace for proper positioning along with a pistol grip trigger mechanism. A 1PN51-2 night sight can be fitted. The RPG-29 is unusual among Russian anti-tank rocket launchers in that it lacks an initial propellant charge to place the projectile at a safe distance from the operator before the rocket ignites. Instead, the rocket engine starts as soon as the trigger is pulled, and burns out before the projectile leaves the barrel. might want to tell the guys in the middle east that it should take a tank to knock out another tank.
Might want to also tell the guys in the middle east to use nanohives instead of having to lug all those rockets around (no more needing that team work since the guy with you need not carry the rockets for you). Then let them know to fire repeat volleys of missiles that turn corners and follow the vehicle. Oh yeah, also tell them to wait until the hardeners are down and then make sure they are fighting in a small bowl shaped battlefield for best results.
Also, THIS
How often do you think those middle east guys cry because they didn't kill the tank outright and they needed at least one other teammate to help?
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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Teilka Darkmist
24
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 12:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Anyone who thinks that CCP didn't realise that redline sniping and redline railtanking would be a thing just isn't thinking straight. This is a game company that has included corporate espionage into their flagship game. For ten years they've seen the players use the ships and modules they've been given in ways that are way outside what they were originally designed for. They knew this would happen and fully expect that their players , using what is already available, are smart enough to come up with a solution. Because they've seen it happen again and again. The big answer to redlinesniping and tanking is teamwork. You say a tank is picking off tanks that try to take ot out? What about two tanks at once? A solo redline sniper is somehow evading your snipers? Try countering with a rail tan, overkill for sure, but still deals with the sniper. And these are just solutions off the top of my head as I type. A good corp will come up with tactics to counter strategies and come up with strategies of their own. If you want to be personal gain oriented spread your sp out amongst everything and see how far that gets you. My bet would be stuck into PvE when they eventually implement it.
Tl:dr - try working as a team in this team based game. Um, CCP put in a null cannon that was blocked by map objects. The same company made vehicles require ammo and yet forgot to add accessible supply depots, the same company that created a mode that allows for an insane amount of ISK to be generated per day for a single group of people (oh and is worried about EVE affecting DUST when ISK is already not an issue). The same people the released DUST without it having racial suits or weapons. etc I don't think you quite get it, I'm not looking to counter anyone, I'm looking for a way to let people counter ME because I am the redline tank we're talking about, the one that will dominate 90% of the matches I'm in and completely denies every vehicle access. It's ridiculous.
Yes there are stil in game problems that need to be fixed. But you said it yourself, not everything is in the game yet. Maybe the additional methods are part of what hasn't been implemented yet. Or maybe CCP overeatimated the amount dust players would work together and how easily they'd come up with innovative solutions.
As to the last point, if you're concerned about lack of responses to how you play, maybe the answer is to be the one who comes up withit using what's in game already. Or just don't redline tank snipe.
I may be wrong here, but aren't we technically still in an open beta?
When I play as a sniper, I'm more likely to be near the opponents redline than own.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
1265
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 16:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Anyone who thinks that CCP didn't realise that redline sniping and redline railtanking would be a thing just isn't thinking straight. This is a game company that has included corporate espionage into their flagship game. For ten years they've seen the players use the ships and modules they've been given in ways that are way outside what they were originally designed for. They knew this would happen and fully expect that their players , using what is already available, are smart enough to come up with a solution. Because they've seen it happen again and again. The big answer to redlinesniping and tanking is teamwork. You say a tank is picking off tanks that try to take ot out? What about two tanks at once? A solo redline sniper is somehow evading your snipers? Try countering with a rail tan, overkill for sure, but still deals with the sniper. And these are just solutions off the top of my head as I type. A good corp will come up with tactics to counter strategies and come up with strategies of their own. If you want to be personal gain oriented spread your sp out amongst everything and see how far that gets you. My bet would be stuck into PvE when they eventually implement it.
Tl:dr - try working as a team in this team based game. Um, CCP put in a null cannon that was blocked by map objects. The same company made vehicles require ammo and yet forgot to add accessible supply depots, the same company that created a mode that allows for an insane amount of ISK to be generated per day for a single group of people (oh and is worried about EVE affecting DUST when ISK is already not an issue). The same people the released DUST without it having racial suits or weapons. etc I don't think you quite get it, I'm not looking to counter anyone, I'm looking for a way to let people counter ME because I am the redline tank we're talking about, the one that will dominate 90% of the matches I'm in and completely denies every vehicle access. It's ridiculous. Yes there are stil in game problems that need to be fixed. But you said it yourself, not everything is in the game yet. Maybe the additional methods are part of what hasn't been implemented yet. Or maybe CCP overeatimated the amount dust players would work together and how easily they'd come up with innovative solutions. As to the last point, if you're concerned about lack of responses to how you play, maybe the answer is to be the one who comes up withit using what's in game already. Or just don't redline tank snipe. I may be wrong here, but aren't we technically still in an open beta?
We're technically in full production at the moment; release was 5/14. Cute, huh? Uprising was the release build.
And the big answer to redline tanks and snipers isn't teamwork; you're wrong on that account. Thre big answer is that only rock can beat rock. Unlike vehicle combat, where paper is superior at killing paper than scissors are, the ONLY reliable method of killing a rail tank is with another, and the only reliable methods of killing snipers is either a rail tank or another sniper.
Which is entirely the problem with the redline. And if Jason is hanging out in the redline with a 3x dam rail, you aren't getting one in to take him out.
Happily printing ISK with permahardeners and MLT blasters.
Just let me get a couple mil more before nerf, CCP!
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Arcanamenides Boltzmann
Em' Deviant Toys
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Blah team work you noobz. I'm aware that I'm "that" guy, also a bit of a masochist. didn't bother... I'll always be "that" guy.
get a room... |
Soraya Xel
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
1169
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 17:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Any idea regarding penalizing people for being in a part of the map when they kill someone is flawed by design.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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