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Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 07:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
When asked, many players will agree that the redline ruins the game, it allows for dirty snipers and tankers to sit back and be safe from many things, but is it all that bad? No, as we've seen from Ambush, without a redline the entire game turns to ****, do not deny it.. "Oh, I've had some good games in ambush!" What, for just you? Yeah, most likely. Something needs to stay in place to allow for players to regroup and push again rather than just spawning in and dying.
The idea focuses on the Mobile Command Centre, a while back we saw MCCs moving at a slow pace to attempt to dock at the enemy outpost, is was an entire gamemode that many of you will of never have played, but if it should ever make a reappearance I believe this could tie in with it nicely.
I propose the removal of the redline and introducing introducing a Green and Yellow Zone.What is this you ask? These Zones are areas surrounding the MCC. The Green belonging to your MCC and the Yellow belonging to the enemy. The zones would be a fair size surrounding their MCC in an oval radius (because the MCCs are long but not as wide, so a oval radius must be applied.) and would go from the ground up to to the limit in the sky. (Sort of important.)
The MCCs electronic equipment and scanners would render much of the enemy equipment useless, blocking their scans, uplinks, nanohives and cloaks, and would have a passive scan picking up any enemy Infantry and vehicles no matter how stealthy they try to make themselves, This would be a great advantage for players pushed back to their zone to try and fight back.
Next, Buffed Installations on the MCC would be able to shoot at Infantry and Vehicles easily but would be restricted to the zone, unable to fire out of it, the moment it leaves the zone it disappears. These Installations MUST be manned and would only become activated when enemy Infantry come close to the zones. This provides a counter to the enemies that are really pushing hard. Also, like the MCC it cannot be taken down by the weapons we currently have.
Now, the above is all well and good, but players aren't idiots and they will find a way to get past the defences and just not allow players out of the MCC (any of you guys remember pushing either MCC on Manus Peaks and just farming this **** out of it from the distance? This will happen.) so there needs to be a counter to this. Now, take a look at this video at around 1:30, now it isn't exactly what I envision but something similar being able to be activated from the MCC. It would be a Pod you could enter, set the area you want to land in and could be seen shooting across the map by everyone, but would provide a way for you to get away from your zone and start the fight anew.
To balance the pod, it should only be activated when enemies get within a certain radius of the zone, or the enemy controls all the points. Allow me to explain why. The radius is there to stop players simply leaving a single point and just camp outside the zone and the point. And the point could be explained as a offensive option utilised by your commander to attempt to salvage the operation.
When entering the Pod, it should bring up the map and you should be able to select an area to be launched towards. think of the map showing a FoV looking towards the battlefield, it would have a limit to its range and you would only be able to click an area within this FoV, any where else would either give you an invalid option or possibly attempt to fire you towards it but land you at the edge of the FoV as close as it could get you.
Finally, WP should be changed for these zones. You will receive no WP for killing from your zone nor firing into the zone, HOWEVER, you can gain WP for killing those within your own zone. To prevent players from abusing any of this, if you enter a zone and then run away, the defenders can still gain WP until you've been out for 20 seconds, same the other way around, if you run out of your zone and then retreat back in, the enemy can kill you for 20 seconds and still gain WP. This I believe would also help those chasing down vehicles only to have them attempt to hide in a safe-ish zone.
Now, I know this is a lot of words for many of you so I will give you your TL;DR
P1. Remove the Redline
P2. Focus shift to MCC
P3. Implement Green/Yellow Zone that surrounds the MCC
P4. MCC will run continuous scans picking up enemies, most equipment will not work in the yellow zone.
P5. Manned, stronger Installations that protect the zone. Will be deactivated when no enemies are near and cannot be fired outside of the zone.
P6. Pods would allow for players to escape the MCC when enemy is pushing hard.
P7. Pods would only be activated once the enemy nears the zone or controls all points
P8. You will be able to set the destination of your Pod using the Map, Pods have a limit on where they can travel.
P9. WP adjustments for each zone removes the WP gain for shooting from the zone or shooting into it.
Thoughts?
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:how about just removing the redline....
it surves no function right now and your idea is more convoluted then anything else in the game
It serves* a major function right now, it allows for the enemy team not to completely pin you down, you're able to reorganize and push out, it's helped plenty of times in getting my squad together and pushing out rather than spawning in and dying repeatedly. Soz if you're only going up against newberries who can never push you back :)
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:How about you work as a team and communicate, get snipers to take out redline infantry and get rail tanks for redline tanks. Then nothing needs to be changed
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4059
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot.
I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4061
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Posted - 2014.01.21 08:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Slightly-Mental wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
As a guy in a tank all the time, the redline doesn't really bother me too much considering I can easily sit back here and gun people down, but the idea has been thrown about recently and they all seem unbalanced and unfair, I think this suggestion would add to it if the redline was removed. Anyways, it shouldn't require a tank to take out a tank, but due to the redline it's the only way to do it because it can just pull back a little and not get hit at all.
It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank. At range that basically means a tank as heavy weapons should sacrifice range in scaling the heavy weapons down to make them carryable. As to a tank pulling back to not get hit at all, in that case it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway. A tank or a sniper opens themselves up to the possibility of return fire when they move into a position to shoot. I believe it should take a vehicle or a heavy weapon to fight a tank, sure, but light weapons should be able to bring down a vehicle either through teamwork or skill. The redline prevents this from happening, I've experienced both sides of this and it's very annoying. What do you mean it shouldn't be able to hit anything anyway? Is that the redline tank shouldn't or it shouldn't be hit? And if a good redline tank is in position, it doesn't matter if it exposes itself or not. ANTI-TANK WARFAREas you and others say only tanks should take out tanks, I would like to hear you thoughts after going to that link. also The RPG-29 is a shoulder-launched, tube-style, breech-loading weapon designed to be carried and used by a single soldier. On the top of the launch tube is the 2.7+ù 1P38 optical sight. On the bottom of the tube is a shoulder brace for proper positioning along with a pistol grip trigger mechanism. A 1PN51-2 night sight can be fitted. The RPG-29 is unusual among Russian anti-tank rocket launchers in that it lacks an initial propellant charge to place the projectile at a safe distance from the operator before the rocket ignites. Instead, the rocket engine starts as soon as the trigger is pulled, and burns out before the projectile leaves the barrel. might want to tell the guys in the middle east that it should take a tank to knock out another tank.
Is this post aimed at me? You may want to reread what I posted. Also balancing off of realism is weakground in a Video Game, my favourite argument for this that nobody can seem to counter is the fact that IN REAL LIFE, when you lose a tank, you're either dead or somehow survive, chances are you're not going be BUYING another one, if you're with the armed forces, it's more likely they'll be providing another tank. In DUST, I die, respawn and have to buy ANOTHER tank out of my pocket :)
Oh and, shields.
Edit: you ninja'd the very last bit in, care to explain why the oval suggestion is an exploit waiting to happen? Would a rectangle appeal to you more? :P
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4061
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Slightly-Mental wrote:Didn't word the oval suggestion and exploit right hence that's why i removed it. sry :)
My post was aimed at everyone who crys "It SHOULD take a tank or at least heavy weapon to take out a tank"
the issue of "Also balancing off of realism is weak ground in a Video Game" I posted the info of the RPG-29 for one reason, and one reason only.
SWARM LAUNCHERS
I don't believe a weapon that locks on should be as strong as something you have to aim and fire at. It should be strong enough to fight light vehicles, and it should be fast, but it shouldn't ever have high alpha.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4061
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:
Quick point, I said only tanks and heavy weapons should be able to take out tanks with heavy weapons sacrificing range for the agility of the weapon being man-portable. I should probably add that remote exposives being able to take out a tank makes sense to me.
@Slightly mental I meant that when a sniper or tank is capable of hitting when it shoots it should also be at risk of being hit with similarly long ranged weapons. In short if someone's hiding in the redline with a tank or sniper rifle, get a tank or sniper rifle to deal with them (if you don't have one chances are someone on your team does). We aren't and shouldn't be one person armies. If you want that go to Mass Effect or Halo or something like that.
There should be numerous counters to each playstile, there should be no redlines. A scout should be able to sneak up behind a sniper anywhere and knife him in the back, a Dropship should be able to hover over a tank and smash him off his well defended area. IF you can't push the railtank off, because it destroys every tank you've thrown at it, well you're ****** and now you don't get to have any vehicles because the redline tank just sits here killing everything that comes in on the RDV. I do it, it's funny. "Oh look, an Assault Dropship" *pop* "Oh look an RDV" *pop* etc after destroying like 8 rail tanks, they realize they can't do **** and give up.
And good luck getting heavy weapons near to me, I'm only able to be hit from the mountain about 400m away and your forge can only hit 300m, what a shame.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4066
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't like you people.
Just give me my pod.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4066
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Posted - 2014.01.21 11:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Anyone who thinks that CCP didn't realise that redline sniping and redline railtanking would be a thing just isn't thinking straight. This is a game company that has included corporate espionage into their flagship game. For ten years they've seen the players use the ships and modules they've been given in ways that are way outside what they were originally designed for. They knew this would happen and fully expect that their players , using what is already available, are smart enough to come up with a solution. Because they've seen it happen again and again. The big answer to redlinesniping and tanking is teamwork. You say a tank is picking off tanks that try to take ot out? What about two tanks at once? A solo redline sniper is somehow evading your snipers? Try countering with a rail tan, overkill for sure, but still deals with the sniper. And these are just solutions off the top of my head as I type. A good corp will come up with tactics to counter strategies and come up with strategies of their own. If you want to be personal gain oriented spread your sp out amongst everything and see how far that gets you. My bet would be stuck into PvE when they eventually implement it.
Tl:dr - try working as a team in this team based game.
Um, CCP put in a null cannon that was blocked by map objects. The same company made vehicles require ammo and yet forgot to add accessible supply depots, the same company that created a mode that allows for an insane amount of ISK to be generated per day for a single group of people (oh and is worried about EVE affecting DUST when ISK is already not an issue). The same people the released DUST without it having racial suits or weapons. etc
I don't think you quite get it, I'm not looking to counter anyone, I'm looking for a way to let people counter ME because I am the redline tank we're talking about, the one that will dominate 90% of the matches I'm in and completely denies every vehicle access. It's ridiculous.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4075
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Posted - 2014.01.21 19:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:yup, remove it so snipers would be scanned instantly, and AR would always be able to compete with snipers, not only removing the sniper role but further enhancing this narrow minded game that is AR514, we must all be within AR range, **** those guys who decide to use their LONG RANGE WEAPONS at LONG RANGE, **** the fact CCP have made it so the only place to logicaly snipe without being INSTANTLY found.
Easy to say remove the redline, very easy. Especially when it forces all in into your battle ground, and you seriously think that having an OVAL green area where no enemies can deploy stuff is gunna stop an absolute 115lb pedo jail **** at the enemies spawn? Cuz it aint.
Counter it with mmc turrets that can be manned, just what our already useless blueberries need.
Pods flying across the map...
Call me whatever but i think the whole idea is a bust. The fact people are still so upset by snipers who sit on hills, lit up like a xmas tree due to silhouette against sky are an issue... they can be countered so so easily, a lot easier than this epic game transformation that forces everyone into AR range wether they are assault/logi/scout..etc.
Learn to counter the redline. Both teams have one
I thought this was TANK514, can we stop changing the game name, it gets confusing very quickly.. AR514, TANK514, LAV514, LASER514 etc. Anyways on to your issues. You radius would surround your MCC and make you invisiandble to scanners and light up any enemies within it. It wouldn't be removing the area around it, you can still sit on numerous mountain peaks within the game and be a sniper scrub but you now have more freedom of movement.
The MCC turrets, as I explained, would activate only when enemies are close, this means it'd shut down and the blues would have no way to enter the turretzs, same with the Pods, doesn't have to be a pod, can just fire you from the MCC like in the video with your inertia dampeners activated, again only active once enemies come close.
You really think a good sniper is going to sit out in the open like that? lol they sit like 150m back in the redline, it's a safe area that allows for far less risk and a lot more reward, especially when it comes to tanking, and as a guy whos game focuses on vehicles, it affects me both positively and negatively, in that I can sit in the redline blapping things, but it is boring, if I want to come out and do something different? I get blapped because I wasn't on the hill killing first.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4075
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Posted - 2014.01.21 19:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:PHASE 1:
P1. Remove the Redline
P2. Focus shift to MCC
P3. Implement Green/Yellow Zone that surrounds the MCC
P4. MCC will run continuous scans picking up enemies, most equipment will not work in the yellow zone.
P5. Manned, stronger Installations that protect the zone. Will be deactivated when no enemies are near and cannot be fired outside of the zone.
P6. Pods would allow for players to escape the MCC when enemy is pushing hard.
P7. Pods would only be activated once the enemy nears the zone or controls all points
P8. You will be able to set the destination of your Pod using the Map, Pods have a limit on where they can travel.
P9. WP adjustments for each zone removes the WP gain for shooting from the zone or shooting into it.
PHASE 2:
MCC Fittings for PC, including ewar mods, more tank, weapons.
PHASE 3
MCC Commander with ability to move MCC!
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4075
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Posted - 2014.01.21 19:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
You really think a good sniper is going to sit out in the open like that? lol they sit like 150m back in the redline, it's a safe area that allows for far less risk and a lot more reward, especially when it comes to tanking, and as a guy whos game focuses on vehicles, it affects me both positively and negatively, in that I can sit in the redline blapping things, but it is boring, if I want to come out and do something different? I get blapped because I wasn't on the hill killing first.
Yes, a good sniper does go out in the open and doesn't sit behind the redline. I know I'm not the best sniper in the game, but I'm far from the worst. I never hang back behind the redline. Because I know that to be able to be called a good sniper, I have to be benefitting the team. I can't do that from behind the redline.
My apologies, I know several snipers who will head out from the redline who do well, but when I say "good" sniper, I meant someone who will most likely go 10-20/0 every match without fail because thale. xD Not many people care about helping the team because if they lose the points and can't push, it doesn't affect them. Actually if we're redline sniping its far easier to let them win the game because we'll get more money from picking them off, and win/lose isn't important.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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Jason Pearson
4076
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:Teilka Darkmist wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
You really think a good sniper is going to sit out in the open like that? lol they sit like 150m back in the redline, it's a safe area that allows for far less risk and a lot more reward, especially when it comes to tanking, and as a guy whos game focuses on vehicles, it affects me both positively and negatively, in that I can sit in the redline blapping things, but it is boring, if I want to come out and do something different? I get blapped because I wasn't on the hill killing first.
Yes, a good sniper does go out in the open and doesn't sit behind the redline. I know I'm not the best sniper in the game, but I'm far from the worst. I never hang back behind the redline. Because I know that to be able to be called a good sniper, I have to be benefitting the team. I can't do that from behind the redline. My apologies, I know several snipers who will head out from the redline who do well, but when I say "good" sniper, I meant someone who will most likely go 10-20/0 every match without fail because thale. xD Not many people care about helping the team because if they lose the points and can't push, it doesn't affect them. Actually if we're redline sniping its far easier to let them win the game because we'll get more money from picking them off, and win/lose isn't important. That's not a good sniper though, not in a game like Dust 514. Since we basically only have one game mode (it's all a variation of skirmish, I'm not really counting team deathmatch as a game mode for dust), a good sniper, or tanker, or anything else, is the one who helps the team achieve the objectives
Sure sure, and for the real players, it's all about staying alive and making the most ISK, without a redline you would be forced to work on keeping those objectives because if they fall your position wont hold because the team will push to your MCC and slaughter you, right now we have it far too easy.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire \\ Bad Mathematician
You're a total git, Jason. - kingbabar
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