Seriously Arch, you JUST told me an idea that utterly destroys the Sandbox is a better idea than mine, now you think I don't know what a sandbox is?

A division space is the sandbox where big boys play.

B division space is the sandbox where the up and coming medium sized boys play.

While C division space is the sandbox for nooby small boys that want to fight other nooby small boys.

try not digging yourself further below ground bud.

PFC is a purely failed concept. It worked for a time, well, got CLOSE to working as intended for a time, and there are moments it works but is far from being something the community has gotten to work.

the action u took was talk crap and openly accept and even promote it, until it was actually fixed.

I do agree though, that the state of PC and its imminent future ARE in the hands of the players. that being said there is little reason to unlock districts when you have 90% of the top talent in this game spread to 3 or 4 groups.

then you have 1/4 of all districts on a time no one aside from TSOL and maybe 1 other corp could ever logically ATTEMPT to take...

bottom line no one is going to give up their isk.

just not gonna happen

explain why its better. Give me 3 reasons that have nothing to do with insulting me and my alliance. go.

Sandbox environments mean that you should have flexibility in doing what the environment lets you do. If it can be done;- do it. In New Eden;- if you can make ISK off it, do it. And we all ove ISK because the cool stuff is expensive. What you are talking about is limiting combat in tiers. Thats not fair at all. What if some tier C corp wants to fight AE just for ***** and giggles? You method would prevent them from doing that. Instead they have to first fight the lower tiers corps, then move to tier b and then to tier A.

Ever heard of the Russian Stealth Bomb squadrons vs Goonswarm? That what sandbox should be like.

If the freedom to fight whoever we want to and whenever we want to! Those silly clocks need to go and alliance corps should be able to defend another alliance corps districts.

But thats a long way away. Till then carebaring is required and Ydubbs idea meets those goals. Reason being the number of people playing dust isnt that great (Please IWS... Dont come up with your BS stats of how the Dust numbers are great).

Its simple;- let the smaller corps duke it out. Once someone gets overconfident and gets balsy enough to do something stupid;- thats when you show them their place.

Anything else?

What you are talking about is limiting combat in tiers. Thats not fair at all. What if some tier C corp wants to fight AE just for ***** and giggles? You method would prevent them from doing that. Instead they have to first fight the lower tiers corps, then move to tier b and then to tier A.

Ranking Qualifications- Ranks will be scaled by maximums and not minimums, for the sake of blueberry corps wanting the try their luck at the big time.The KDR requirment is merrily an initial guideline for which corps go where. It in no way defines their true division. (NOTE: YOU MUST APPLY HERE TO BE LISTED UNDER ANY CATEGORY AT THIS TIME)

A corp cannot attack another corp in a lower division than them under the pretense of flipping their district unless it is warranted MHR Police work. Mutual wars between corps from different divisions may be carried out under the MHR Police's watchful eye.

Let's stop with this pointless confrontation of Arirana's past vs his present, he's making an honest effort and it's for all to see.

But it's unrealistic at best. If you could get the entire AE leadership here with FA and NF saying they'd support this, then we'd have something to continue your idea with.

Let's stop with this pointless confrontation of Arirana's past vs his present, he's making an honest effort and it's for all to see.

But it's unrealistic at best. If you could get the entire AE leadership here with FA and NF saying they'd support this, then we'd have something to continue your idea with.

For starters let me say that in no way am I insulting your alliance. I even made reference about eatsbabies cienfuegos
who I have mad respect for and is in your alliance. I did however derogate your corp i.e. AE and Nyan San can KMA!

I however have a condescending nature. That would explain my so called insult to you and your corp. Its not personal. I did shoot you with a scrambler pistol a few times which was most gratifying.

Anywho back to answering your question;-

1. Player base is too small to have a tiering system
2. By having a tiering system you limit who attacks you or who you get attacked by
3. The payouts are the same in your system despite the risk vs reward motto of Eve
4. PC is the foothold to Null Sec. If and when null sec is implemented Eve corps would want proven track record. Tiering doesnt help prove track record.
5. There will be no distincting between the casual and hardcore. Casual players can just own tier C districts and mint ISK without even doing anything.
6. Its the EZ mode

Ariana,
First off, I appreciate your OP and taking it at face value I think your intent is actually aimed at trying to make Dust a better game. I think youGÇÖve also shown a certain amount of fortitude just by proposing the idea continuing to actively and engage the thread in a logical and patient manner (mostly) even with the somewhat justified hate being thrown at you.

To your concept; what you are essentially proposing is a actually in line with the sandbox feel that most of us want. Effectively you are proposing a self-regulating body for Private Military Corporations (PMCs) aka just plain old merc outfits. There are plenty of historical and recent examples of this in real life. If you want to throw New Eden flavor on it the MHR would be a self-regulating body that naturally developed to protect all merc interests (read profit and safety) in relation to Concord and the Factions.

You are laying out a profit structure that allows for upward mobility and gives smaller corps a shot at PC which, frankly, is needed in the game. Right now there is little incentive for most corps to actually get into PC, big alliances to accept smaller corps, and the ISK divide between the top and bottom just gets bigger. EVE utilizes the high/low/null sec model to provide this framework and if that type of model were overlaid it might make your proposal a bit unnecessary. Until that time I think the MHR construct you are proposing not bad; lots of holes in it but not bad.

Issues/questions:

1) Aside from whole getting all the major powers to essentially sign on to a GÇ£charterGÇ¥ of some sort I think one of the big concerns is how you tier or rank corps. I like the win and youGÇÖre in style for upward mobility but I donGÇÖt think KDR is good answer as a qualifier. I think you would have most corps self-selecting into the 2nd and 3rd bracket just out of practicality. Do you think you need an additional Tier to further separate things? The corp base is pretty small.

2) How would you determine the GÇ£capGÇ¥ on districts/planets being owned by corps? As noted in #1 there would likely be many more corps in 2nd and 3rd tierGǪwhatGÇÖs the acceptable scale by tier? Maybe a Tier 1 corp gets a system, Tier 2 whole planet, and Tier 3 a couple districts?

3) How do you regulate the alliance overlay? If you have a lower tier outfit thatGÇÖs in an alliance with that pulls in varsity players that might skew things. Example, BobGÇÖs Mercs joins CI and every time they PC itGÇÖs 2 or 3 guys from BobGÇÖs Mercs and a squad of FA, an OSG HAV / Dropship squad, and a couple other heavy hitters from other corpsGǪ.are they being tiered or is the Alliance being tiered?

Lastly, I donGÇÖt hold your past glitching against you but I certainly donGÇÖt condone it. You get stung by the fallout of it every time you post or guys see you play and question your skills but that doesnGÇÖt mean you donGÇÖt want to genuinely help the game and by extension player and corps not in the GÇ£upper 10%GÇ¥. Again, I appreciate the conversation you are trying to start with the thread.

Just thoughts from my perspective as veteran player with average skills that would like PC to be relevant to everyone if they want to participate.

Just to add to this idea

Maybe each alliance has Junior varsity team tier b and a c team they can be corps that we adopt.

Then it would be much easier to regulate
We have a limit to how many alliance members can be in a match say 1-4 allowing these lowers tier corps a chance to have fc from their alliance and also that alliance member can witness if either team is using ringers or more than the agreed to 1-4

So lower tier corps get adopted by the larger corps/alliances they keep their identity but have the protection of the larger corp/alliance.


Obviously if our b and c level corps are going at it we let them go. Giving more smaller corps the ability to enjoy PC

This may be easier to regulate because we will be in contact with our b and c level corps watching their development

1: I was never intending to use KDR as a absolute outline but as a guideline on who should go where. I stated right next to it that it will be overruled by requirement 3, which is whether you can hold a presence in the division higher than your own or not. All I said was that corps with a KDR higher than 3.0 cannot participate in B division, and corps with higher than a 2.0 kdr cannot participate in C division, UNLESS they get pushed out of A or B division. Even then corps may be excluded from MHR if they are far too strong for one division, but too weak (seemly, they could be faking it) for the one above it.

2: There is no cap, but if a corp is rolling over all of the others in their division, it would warrant a promotion to the next division above that one. MHR Police would reserve the right to make that decision as well as revise any rules put in place.

3:Ringing will be a huge issue. Its quite debatable, but as of right now all I can think of to be fair is that you can ONLY ring in players that are a part of your division, and MHR Police decides who is in what. Alliance is irrelevant when it comes to C and B division space, unless your entire alliance is in B or C division. Say Regynum left his corp so that he isn't a part of an A division corp, so he can ring for B and C division corps. That would be against the rules if MHR police decide he is an A division player. However, ringing will remain a flexible topic based on what the party's involved want. You cannot use A division ringers in B division space unless the opponent allows it.

To clear up the matter of maintaining sandbox in PC, Almur will remain under anarchy, anything goes. However, I expect it will look much like PC does today with A division corps ruling, so it would be considered A division space among most. A large amount of districts will be fair game for anyone, 119 to be exact, so it won't necessarily make PC care bear land. Just partly

I should have cleared up the KDR question; I re-read and you did state it. Basically, I was more focused on how to do the intial tiering of Corps beyond the basic lay down. Seems you need to have a bit of subjective scoring involved as a sanity check....I'm ok with that in theory but it needs to be a pretty transparent discussion. My recommendation is to essentially let corps seed themselves in the category of their choosing and things will probably sort themselves out in a week or two by using the "win and in / lose and out" forumula.

I think you are on the right track with the "no cap" deal, however, you probably do need to have some established "by-laws" or charter so to speak so no one calls foul that MHR Police whackec someone out of turn. It's also probably feasible that you'll have a couple B Tier corps that can dominate in that tier but still not match A Tier Corps. Without some up front discussion or rules of the road that could get sticky.

If they add corp battles back MHR won't really be worth it anymore, maybe an extension on PFC and that's it.

I fear that corp battles would actually destroy PC. Why wait for someone to attack you and Wait a whole day when you can just battle immediately?

I fear that corp battles would actually destroy PC. Why wait for someone to attack you and Wait a whole day when you can just battle immediately?

I am going to continue to troll the **** out of you Arirana - even though I like you now - forgive me for it, you know I can't let it go.

But can you possibly repost this in the feedback section of the forums? It really is a good idea and well thought out. Hopefully the guys who hold a grudge against you, like myself, won't be there lurking.

This right here, I don't even agree with pc on a fundamental level and your ideas merely polish that pile of sht arirana but you need this in the feedback section. The war room is the biggest pile of non constructive trash in dust, see any dev tags? They have the decency to at least acknowledge anything they really like, your ideas won't even get noticed here.

I like the corp battles and applying corp ranking to that would be sweet but keep the tournament style antics out of pc, you should know that has no place there.

Pc will truly be fixed when its changed drastically, my ideas have had likes from relevant people and I don't mean players either

And posting in a page of threads containing calling people out, whining about melee glitches , bullying other players and self entitled idiocy isn't the way to go mate, I'd copy and paste this to feedback/requests, despite what you may think, that is the best place to post it trust me.

Feedback really isn't the best section for this type of discussion. The purpose of this thread was to throw ideas around and get a solid product presentable for feedback/requests. In fact, I already made a post in feedback and it was entirely ignored. I dug through the first five pages and couldn't find it again.

If you haven't noticed, feedback is filled with people who's idea of contributing to the thread is saying "I like it" and demanding more info