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Do You Believe That AV is Working As Intended?

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3410	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:12:00 - [1] - Quote Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 263	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:20:00 - [2] - Quote AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5624	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:27:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND **** no. I would return it to its 1.6 Damage models with 1.7 ranges, charge up times, and lock on range, and see how that work, then I would slowly tweak the number until I found a place that sat rather "just right". Where tanks are risky business but not made wholly impotent by AV. Some of the work though need to be done on the tanks side of the fence. "Face the enemy as a solid wall. For faith is your armour and through it, the enemy will find no breach" -Askura 10:3
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 545	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:32:00 - [4] - Quote No. We only get rewarded for vehicle destruction. Our job as AV has two aspects: Repel vehicles, and destroy them if possible. Rewards for doing the other part of our job would be nice. (CCP [insert proper dev here] said it may come) Of course, some balance fine tuning is in order as well
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9956	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:41:00 - [5] - Quote Forge guns: Yes. They are still strong solo, but really shine with either one additional forge, or two swarm launchers. Swarm launchers:Top level damage output seems almost fair, but that's at the very top level. Standard and Advanced level swarms do negligable damage. Projectile speed is too low to be a persistent threat to assault dropships. Plasma Cannons:: These need a moderate buff to direct damage, and a slight reduction in reload speed, and faster projectile speed for starters. This weapon would strongly benefit from a burn effect, but the devs have stated that this isn't technically possible at this time, so will have to wait. AV Grenades: These were never intended to be a primary source of AV, and are merely supplemental damage. As such, they seem to be working ok. Perhaps a very small buff to damage. Remote Explosives: Excellent. Suicide LAVs are probably OP, but they bring such satisfaction to my soul, as a pilot who has suffered at the hands of redline railtanks for far too long now. Vehicle vs Vehicles: All seems well here except for the dominance of large railguns, though the issues with railguns are not entirely with the turret itself. Damage falloff would be consistent with small railguns, and a longer spool up would stretch out engagements that much longer, and require a bit more skill to operate. Damage mods should also be limited to one active at any time, but that applies to all turrets. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1615	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:42:00 - [6] - Quote REs work great. a tank with hardeners can usually handle a couple of them, but without hardeners running, it's an OHK an all but a gunlogi stacking extenders and nothing else. Everything else is garbage and needs a buff. I'm a good pilot, but there is no reason i can take on a proto forge gun and win with an unhardened sica. I should be getting OHK'd by proto breach forges without a hardeneer every time, and the same applies to a wikiswarm/soma circumstance. Swarms, plasma cannons, re's, mines, and forges should get 10WP/1000DMG (not counting resistances) done to vehicles. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
The Attorney General 1741	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:42:00 - [7] - Quote Some yes, some no. AV nades are pretty good. Swarms need more damage FG needs its charge time dropped back to 1.6 levels. PLC needs pre charge reduction, damage buff and a reload buff. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Leadfoot10 molon labe. Public Disorder. 232	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:59:00 - [8] - Quote Swarms are too weak, tanks (hardeners, in particular) are too strong, and militia tanks are too inexpensive. AV nades and forges are about right. IMO, of course. :)
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3980	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:01:00 - [9] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: No. We only get rewarded for vehicle destruction. Our job as AV has two aspects: Repel vehicles, and destroy them if possible. Rewards for doing the other part of our job would be nice. (CCP [insert proper dev here] said it may come) Of course, some balance fine tuning is in order as well would be nice to be rewarded for damaging a vehicle again. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 144	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:03:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND No, when a no skill militia tank is more effective at taking out vehicles then dedicated soldiers who spend millions of SP into AV then no

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2080	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:16:00 - [11] - Quote If hardeners and speed remain as is, I want the old lock range back. Beer before Liquor, never sicker. Toothpaste before Orange Juice, you're dead.
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 114	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:28:00 - [12] - Quote Swarms are probably working in 1.7 as intended. This is not the same as saying they are fit for purpose. I expect that the ability to make swarms visit at their long ranges was harder then nerfing their range. I would like to be able to fire a long range dumb fire swarm missile. It would only get the immobile tanks. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 301	Posted - 2014.01.13 05:15:00 - [13] - Quote In order to adequately respond to this question, I would have to write a veritable essay on what a sensible balance would look like. But I will say I don't believe things are correctly balanced, and it will take changes to both vehicles and AV, and also, need I once again mention the maps? The Tank Balancing Factor No One Is Discussing
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3413	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:02:00 - [14] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: If hardeners and speed remain as is, I want the old lock range back. While I do agree that 175m is far too short, 400m was far too long. Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
steve0809 GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:18:00 - [15] - Quote Shadow of War88 wrote: Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND No, when a no skill militia tank is more effective at taking out vehicles then dedicated soldiers who spend millions of SP into AV then no What he said +1
Lorhak Gannarsein 1198	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:26:00 - [16] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND **** no. I would return it to its 1.6 Damage models with 1.7 ranges, charge up times, and lock on range, and see how that work, then I would slowly tweak the number until I found a place that sat rather "just right". Where tanks are risky business but not made wholly impotent by AV. Some of the work though need to be done on the tanks side of the fence. EDIT- I however you increase the PG and CPU usage models of the Heavy Damage module making stacking them very difficult. I would be wary of changing them that much - otherwise the only viable fittings would be multiple hardeners. A Breach FG could alpha through a Gunnlogi, assuming the weak point was hit. And a Wiyrkomi swarm would kill a typical Madrugar inside (subjectively) three seconds. PRO tanker and proud.
Clyffton Donovan Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 50	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:27:00 - [17] - Quote AV works fine. I've gotten a few dozen militia ones under my belt and i've only spec'd in maybe half a mil to AV. I do wish the swarm launcher had it's range from back in 1.6, but the damage is ok if you know how to set up your suits. Now I will say that you do have to be smarter with AV now that tanks are balanced and better. IE: wait till hardeners are done before using explosives, sneaking up on them instead of swarming them from 400M, learning the different types of tanks and bringing the right equipment. I think once the tank spam problem is fixed and there are one to two tanks on the field, people will agree that AV is ok. Director / Combat Medic Zulu Squad Leader Invictus Maneo~ "I Remain Unvanquished"
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 864	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:31:00 - [18] - Quote I use Standard fair AV grenades on the Starter Anti-Armor suit and I'm able to damage most tanks(unless they're shield stacking with shield-extenders). I'm still experimenting but if I can hit tanks with 1,000+ worth of damage with an Advanced Packed Grenade, I could a lot of my fights sooner. Considering that the highest stack I've seen is 4k something on Armor, 3 hits of those plus an Advanced SL might be nice. So. Yeah. I would have to say it's working as intended but people fail to grapple with tanks on the field. Anyone can make the same fit I made, let alone with a few more SP make it better. Just buy from the explosives and grenade SP skills and you'll be there. Mind you, I only have standard AV (non-pack) grenades. I'll hear my squad QQing about the tank but only see one other guy dealing with it. And usually when we're both working together, tanks can't handle it. In the future though, they'll need to find some balance between ADV-PRO tanks and the current AV system we have. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3414	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:33:00 - [19] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. Has anyone here ever been killed by a single STD Swarm Launcher? Pretty sure that the people complaining about AV don't use STD Swarms Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4292	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:35:00 - [20] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: No. We only get rewarded for vehicle destruction. Our job as AV has two aspects: Repel vehicles, and destroy them if possible. Rewards for doing the other part of our job would be nice. (CCP [insert proper dev here] said it may come) Of course, some balance fine tuning is in order as well would be nice to be rewarded for damaging a vehicle again. These. Need vehicle damage WP so AV players can see rewards for doing their job.

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3415	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:41:00 - [21] - Quote CCP has confirmed that WP for vehicle damage will make a return in 1.8 Though I do believe that thg WP given for a vehicle destruction should be increased, that way we don't have AVers playing FarmVille. Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 110	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:45:00 - [22] - Quote No, but it's not as terrible as others have made it out to be. Points for damage/mobility kills is a must. All but one suit must sacrifice the ability to effectively handle enemy infantry to deal with enemy armour, therefore AV is a role like any other and should be able to draw upon a greater wealth of WP. Points for damage and mobility kills would be greatly appreciated. Swarms need to be faster, and the PLC need ps it bugs to be fixed. Rather than re-balance these two weapons to make them inherently better at killing armour (or in the swarms case, tanks, because I see it as an anti-dropship deterrent by design), create breach variants of both that allow them to handle tanks bit little else. The breach swarm should function like the torpedoes of EvE; slow, unguided, but massively destructive. The breach PLC should require a charge up time, have a flatter trajectory but much, much shorter effective range. That former is effective against armour, the latter shields. Beyond that, perhaps a minor buff to AV Andes at standard level? It's dangerous, though.mwe all remember the AV spam of 1.6. Let's not go back to that. Dedicated Commando. So it's a good job KDR doesn't bother me, really.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 772	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:45:00 - [23] - Quote AV seems mostly fine. I think swarms need a range buff, maybe 300m (disclaimer, I am a proto swarmer and have been since the beginning). Other than that, tanks are feared and efficient but killable. Bad tankers can be solo'd, good tankers can be team killed or solo'd with a bit of luck. Militia tanks & items need a nerf. *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 771	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:56:00 - [24] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3415	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:01:00 - [25] - Quote Any more thoughts? Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 421	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:09:00 - [26] - Quote The problem isn't "AV working as intended" so much as "Is there any reason to choose AV-specific gear?" Sad truth: 1. REs are more effective (and more versatile) than proximity mines. If an item exists for one purpose--and one purpose only--it shouldn't be less effective than a multi-use item. 2. A militia Sica/Soma is about 1/2 the cost of my proto SL suit, while offering a. greater safety and b. increased range. I don't bother with my SLs anymore...what a waste of SP. Life is killing me.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4301	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:12:00 - [27] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar.
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR F.T.U. IMMORTAL REGIME 1188	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:12:00 - [28] - Quote well, I can usually solo tanks with my AV fit, which is: Boundless REs Plasma Cannon Packed AV Grenades so I'd say that all AV except for swarm launchers are working as intended. tanks, however are not. reduce the max amount of tanks on the battlefield so that the match isn't won by the side with more tanks and I'd say we'd be just about right. Anime > EVERYTHING
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 182	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:16:00 - [29] - Quote Enemy Asset Damage +35 Do 1k ehp worth of damage to an enemy vehicle? Here, take this 35 WP for every time you repel that vehicle. If Logis can farm WP doing their jobs why shouldn't AV? Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 773	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:21:00 - [30] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. I hope so too, but that's not the case unfortunately.

Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 275	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:21:00 - [31] - Quote Puts on helmet "Not really, the investment required to become proficient in AV far outweighs any gains in durability, WP or ISK compared to the output from fielding a MLT HAV" Dives into trench "TAKE COVER!!!!!" Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 577	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:32:00 - [32] - Quote in a way yes... but the only vehicles ive had troubles against r std tanks.. i dont have a problem aving most mlt vehicles. and i only put enough sp into it to unlock adv swarms and std av nades.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:37:00 - [33] - Quote In my experience a few things need buffing, mostly proximity mines and SL's, the rest seems ok except for the speed of tanks allowing them to escape. Yes, you can trap and surprise tanks and eliminate them but if they are on an objective with hardeners on they can pretty much just sit there if they have any infantry support at all, then run off make a loop and come back, two tanks doing this means a constant tank presence with little chance of attacking them. The changes don't need to be big though, awarding WP for damage will get more players to play AV and this seems to be the bigger problem.
8213 0uter.Heaven 1313	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:00:00 - [34] - Quote No. CCP stated that AV would windows of oppurtunity to take out tanks. That was simply a lie because modules can be stacked and activated in overlapping duration. Not to mention you need prototype AV to be competitive. Now, CCP wants to go back to an old system of WP awarded for damaging tanks because AV is to high risk and ineffective against Tanks and DSes. The best AV can hope to do is push a tank off the lines for awhile, as only clown car tankers are able to be destroyed in 1.7. The 3 AV to 1 HAV ratio is nonsense. You can field 7 tanks on an enemy team(14 if you cheat). that means the other team needs 21 AV players and all are defenseless against the 8 regualr enemy infantry. Fish in a bucket!
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 649	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:12:00 - [35] - Quote Forges yes, they are at a good balance with dropships. Swarm launchers no they could use a little more damage
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 361	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:15:00 - [36] - Quote I think we need stasis webifier mines or equipment to counter the speed of vehicles. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Jake Bloodworth molon labe. Public Disorder. 276	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:16:00 - [37] - Quote Yes, AV currently kills tanks. Tanks, however, are stupid. They careen around the map looking like something out of a cartoon with their ridiculous speeds. Make tanks slow enough be punished by current AV and things will be fixed. As it stands, tanks have two "windows of opportunity". The first is hardeners. They become tough to kill with their hardeners up. This is a good thing. The second window is the cartoon scooting across the map at near mach speed whenever they feel even the slightest bit of fear for their stupidly cheap tank. This is a bad thing.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 775	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:17:00 - [38] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. False unless someone else made them use their hardeners which is part luck, which I accounted for in my original post in this thread. *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4305	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:31:00 - [39] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. False unless someone else made them use their hardeners which is part luck, which I accounted for in my original post in this thread. You can force them to use hardeners with your Swarms. At least, I can when I'm working with another competent Swarm user. Taking a couple of swarm volleys at once from different directions is usually enough to make most tankers bring their modules. From there, it's just a matter of anticipating where they're running to. Or you can let them run and treat your job as a success because even though the tank is alive, it's not doing anything while it's trying to avoid two Swarm guys who may or may not be chasing from locations it can't place accurately.
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1627	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:22:00 - [40] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Swarms are too weak, tanks (hardeners, in particular) are too strong, and militia tanks are too inexpensive. AV nades and forges are about right. IMO, of course. :) Hardeners are fine. The problem is that AV is too weak, even at proto, to reliably take out a tank without hardeners before it gets away. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!

Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1627	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:23:00 - [41] - Quote 8213 wrote: No. CCP stated that AV would windows of oppurtunity to take out tanks. That was simply a lie because modules can be stacked and activated in overlapping duration. Not to mention you need prototype AV to be competitive. Now, CCP wants to go back to an old system of WP awarded for damaging tanks because AV is to high risk and ineffective against Tanks and DSes. The best AV can hope to do is push a tank off the lines for awhile, as only clown car tankers are able to be destroyed in 1.7. The 3 AV to 1 HAV ratio is nonsense. You can field 7 tanks on an enemy team(14 if you cheat). that means the other team needs 21 AV players and all are defenseless against the 8 regualr enemy infantry. Or one Charlotte O'Dell Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3421	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:25:00 - [42] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: 8213 wrote: No. CCP stated that AV would windows of oppurtunity to take out tanks. That was simply a lie because modules can be stacked and activated in overlapping duration. Not to mention you need prototype AV to be competitive. Now, CCP wants to go back to an old system of WP awarded for damaging tanks because AV is to high risk and ineffective against Tanks and DSes. The best AV can hope to do is push a tank off the lines for awhile, as only clown car tankers are able to be destroyed in 1.7. The 3 AV to 1 HAV ratio is nonsense. You can field 7 tanks on an enemy team(14 if you cheat). that means the other team needs 21 AV players and all are defenseless against the 8 regualr enemy infantry. Or one Unicorn Fixed :P Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 1731	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:39:00 - [43] - Quote All my Swarm Launcher skill are maxed out. My AV fit uses three Complex Light Damage Modifier and a Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher. Still, it is very hard to pop something; I might as well throw some handfuls of Jell-O at my targets (same range, same damage). Greedy Bastards' Hate Lord
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 775	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:43:00 - [44] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. False unless someone else made them use their hardeners which is part luck, which I accounted for in my original post in this thread. You can force them to use hardeners with your Swarms. At least, I can when I'm working with another competent Swarm user. Taking a couple of swarm volleys at once from different directions is usually enough to make most tankers bring their modules. From there, it's just a matter of anticipating where they're running to. Or you can let them run and treat your job as a success because even though the tank is alive, it's not doing anything while it's trying to avoid two Swarm guys who may or may not be chasing from locations it can't place accurately. Anticipating where they are running to ?! They used to go at a HUMVEE Speed, now they are like Lambos LOL
Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 85	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:46:00 - [45] - Quote The big problem is that there isn't enough difference between hurting highly skilled tankers and low skill tankers. A single medium skilled infantry with AV should be able to kill a noob tank. Maybe not right away but certainly before running out of ammo. It's that simple in my opinion. Right now you might be able to kill one but it is too difficult so noob tanks are god mode unless there are other tanks around. Noob tanks should be effective until infantry rolls an AV fit or against other noob tanks Highly skilled tanker should be pretty much impossible to kill unless a whole squad rolls av to take them down. also the speed thing is ridiculous. Are they tanks or Nascars?
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 775	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:47:00 - [46] - Quote Munin-Frey wrote: The big problem is that there isn't enough difference between hurting highly skilled tankers and low skill tankers. A single medium skilled infantry with AV should be able to kill a noob tank. Maybe not right away but certainly before running out of ammo. It's that simple in my opinion. Right now you might be able to kill one but it is too difficult so noob tanks are god mode unless there are other tanks around. Noob tanks should be effective until infantry rolls an AV fit or against other noob tanks Highly skilled tanker should be pretty much impossible to kill unless a whole squad rolls av to take them down. also the speed thing is ridiculous. Are they tanks or Nascars? Nope they are a tribute to Paul Walker Fast and Furious 7
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 521	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:03:00 - [47] - Quote No. Tanks are too fast with no way to slow them down or stop them. DShips just fly away with impunity unless it's a rail or forge targeting. Remotes are great but there are many issues with them that make them unreliable. Tanks have 3rd person view that makes it very difficult to sneak up on....should be more limited. If a tank moves while laying remotes, great chance the remotes just fall off. Plus it takes 3+ to kill a tank meaning boundless is the only option for non logis...and good luck getting them laid in time. Some AV weapons are so non viable that they are worthless like the PlC or mines. Why these were not fixed is beyond me. AV received too many limitations while tanks/dships received none. Why fight the battle when you can just call in your own tank that is 10x more effective?
echo47 Minmatar Republic 169	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:54:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND Yes. AV is working as intended, it now takes more than on player to destroy a properly skilled tank. One player can persuade a tank to take a different route. And from what I understand that was the intention. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3475	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:16:00 - [49] - Quote echo47 wrote: Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND Yes. AV is working as intended, it now takes more than on player to destroy a properly skilled tank. One player can persuade a tank to take a different route. And from what I understand that was the intention. Did you really need that many line spaces? Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 3573	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:17:00 - [50] - Quote Yes; active hardeners are simply too powerful. That doesn't mean AV couldn't use some form of buff, though. We used to have a time machine

Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 813	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:20:00 - [51] - Quote Does not. If you are in an ambush you will be tank rolled into the ground no matter what AV you are gonna field. This is not to say that 3 AV can't take out one tank. In theory - sure. In practice you have 5 red tanks rolling in an ambush and the score goes 7 clones remaining of blue, 70 of red in under 3 minutes. If there was effective AV I surely would have seen at least a game or two in the dozens of ambushes I played since 1.7 has descended. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 813	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:25:00 - [52] - Quote I will say this against AV. Whoever made and put Swarm Launcher in the game screwed up. Auto - lock dumb fire AV weapon... Really? No wonder they had to buff vehicles in 1.7. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2137	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:37:00 - [53] - Quote I think a fully kitted out AFG does around 700 damage to my shields when I cycle. One clip can just pop me if all shots land since the regen stops but I don't run a booster/extender usually, which makes sense. With an extender/booster I could probably tank a whole clip. Usually I just double harden and mow AFGs down. FGs can kill infantry, have rounds that travel quickly and have good range, despite long charge times. Other than charge times, at least at proto, they are not bad. Swarms, on the other hand, are practically useless. Multiple fully kitted out proto swarms can dent my hardener Gunnlogi, but they'd need to stop and reload if I ran an extender/booster. Not sure how the regen would work with 2 synched proto, but I think it'd stop. Triple hardened is basically invincible unless you have 10 guys firing AFGs at it. AV Grenades are just laughable unless you run proto packed and sit there on a hive tossing them endlessly and the guy doesn't move. Basically, you need proto AV to take out most decent STD tanks and even then only FGs are worth anything. Most players don't have a proto FG to whip out. There are exceptions and even MLT can pop stupid tankers. I'd like swarms to get 270 damage a missile, forges to have a half second shaved off their charge time and AV grenades to do a few hundred more damage each. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.


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