DUST Search - Do You Believe That AV is Working As Intended?

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Maximus Stryker wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

NAV HIV wrote:

Beck Weathers wrote:

AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf.

I think you are talking about 1.6

2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma

I think you are talking about bad AV players.

2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar.

False unless someone else made them use their hardeners which is part luck, which I accounted for in my original post in this thread.

You can force them to use hardeners with your Swarms.

At least, *I* can when I'm working with another competent Swarm user.

Taking a couple of swarm volleys at once from different directions is usually enough to make most tankers bring their modules. From there, it's just a matter of anticipating where they're running to.

Or you can let them run and treat your job as a success because even though the tank is alive, it's not doing anything while it's trying to avoid two Swarm guys who may or may not be chasing from locations it can't place accurately.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 275	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:21:00 - [31] - Quote Puts on helmet "Not really, the investment required to become proficient in AV far outweighs any gains in durability, WP or ISK compared to the output from fielding a MLT HAV" Dives into trench "TAKE COVER!!!!!" Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate 577	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:32:00 - [32] - Quote in a way yes... but the only vehicles ive had troubles against r std tanks.. i dont have a problem aving most mlt vehicles. and i only put enough sp into it to unlock adv swarms and std av nades.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:37:00 - [33] - Quote In my experience a few things need buffing, mostly proximity mines and SL's, the rest seems ok except for the speed of tanks allowing them to escape. Yes, you can trap and surprise tanks and eliminate them but if they are on an objective with hardeners on they can pretty much just sit there if they have any infantry support at all, then run off make a loop and come back, two tanks doing this means a constant tank presence with little chance of attacking them. The changes don't need to be big though, awarding WP for damage will get more players to play AV and this seems to be the bigger problem.
8213 0uter.Heaven 1313	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:00:00 - [34] - Quote No. CCP stated that AV would windows of oppurtunity to take out tanks. That was simply a lie because modules can be stacked and activated in overlapping duration. Not to mention you need prototype AV to be competitive. Now, CCP wants to go back to an old system of WP awarded for damaging tanks because AV is to high risk and ineffective against Tanks and DSes. The best AV can hope to do is push a tank off the lines for awhile, as only clown car tankers are able to be destroyed in 1.7. The 3 AV to 1 HAV ratio is nonsense. You can field 7 tanks on an enemy team(14 if you cheat). that means the other team needs 21 AV players and all are defenseless against the 8 regualr enemy infantry. Fish in a bucket!
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 649	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:12:00 - [35] - Quote Forges yes, they are at a good balance with dropships. Swarm launchers no they could use a little more damage
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 361	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:15:00 - [36] - Quote I think we need stasis webifier mines or equipment to counter the speed of vehicles. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Jake Bloodworth molon labe. Public Disorder. 276	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:16:00 - [37] - Quote Yes, AV currently kills tanks. Tanks, however, are stupid. They careen around the map looking like something out of a cartoon with their ridiculous speeds. Make tanks slow enough be punished by current AV and things will be fixed. As it stands, tanks have two "windows of opportunity". The first is hardeners. They become tough to kill with their hardeners up. This is a good thing. The second window is the cartoon scooting across the map at near mach speed whenever they feel even the slightest bit of fear for their stupidly cheap tank. This is a bad thing.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 775	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:17:00 - [38] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. False unless someone else made them use their hardeners which is part luck, which I accounted for in my original post in this thread. *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4305	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:31:00 - [39] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. False unless someone else made them use their hardeners which is part luck, which I accounted for in my original post in this thread. You can force them to use hardeners with your Swarms. At least, I can when I'm working with another competent Swarm user. Taking a couple of swarm volleys at once from different directions is usually enough to make most tankers bring their modules. From there, it's just a matter of anticipating where they're running to. Or you can let them run and treat your job as a success because even though the tank is alive, it's not doing anything while it's trying to avoid two Swarm guys who may or may not be chasing from locations it can't place accurately.
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1627	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:22:00 - [40] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Swarms are too weak, tanks (hardeners, in particular) are too strong, and militia tanks are too inexpensive. AV nades and forges are about right. IMO, of course. :) Hardeners are fine. The problem is that AV is too weak, even at proto, to reliably take out a tank without hardeners before it gets away. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!

Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1627	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:23:00 - [41] - Quote 8213 wrote: No. CCP stated that AV would windows of oppurtunity to take out tanks. That was simply a lie because modules can be stacked and activated in overlapping duration. Not to mention you need prototype AV to be competitive. Now, CCP wants to go back to an old system of WP awarded for damaging tanks because AV is to high risk and ineffective against Tanks and DSes. The best AV can hope to do is push a tank off the lines for awhile, as only clown car tankers are able to be destroyed in 1.7. The 3 AV to 1 HAV ratio is nonsense. You can field 7 tanks on an enemy team(14 if you cheat). that means the other team needs 21 AV players and all are defenseless against the 8 regualr enemy infantry. Or one Charlotte O'Dell Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3421	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:25:00 - [42] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: 8213 wrote: No. CCP stated that AV would windows of oppurtunity to take out tanks. That was simply a lie because modules can be stacked and activated in overlapping duration. Not to mention you need prototype AV to be competitive. Now, CCP wants to go back to an old system of WP awarded for damaging tanks because AV is to high risk and ineffective against Tanks and DSes. The best AV can hope to do is push a tank off the lines for awhile, as only clown car tankers are able to be destroyed in 1.7. The 3 AV to 1 HAV ratio is nonsense. You can field 7 tanks on an enemy team(14 if you cheat). that means the other team needs 21 AV players and all are defenseless against the 8 regualr enemy infantry. Or one Unicorn Fixed :P Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 1731	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:39:00 - [43] - Quote All my Swarm Launcher skill are maxed out. My AV fit uses three Complex Light Damage Modifier and a Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher. Still, it is very hard to pop something; I might as well throw some handfuls of Jell-O at my targets (same range, same damage). Greedy Bastards' Hate Lord
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 775	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:43:00 - [44] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. False unless someone else made them use their hardeners which is part luck, which I accounted for in my original post in this thread. You can force them to use hardeners with your Swarms. At least, I can when I'm working with another competent Swarm user. Taking a couple of swarm volleys at once from different directions is usually enough to make most tankers bring their modules. From there, it's just a matter of anticipating where they're running to. Or you can let them run and treat your job as a success because even though the tank is alive, it's not doing anything while it's trying to avoid two Swarm guys who may or may not be chasing from locations it can't place accurately. Anticipating where they are running to ?! They used to go at a HUMVEE Speed, now they are like Lambos LOL
Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 85	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:46:00 - [45] - Quote The big problem is that there isn't enough difference between hurting highly skilled tankers and low skill tankers. A single medium skilled infantry with AV should be able to kill a noob tank. Maybe not right away but certainly before running out of ammo. It's that simple in my opinion. Right now you might be able to kill one but it is too difficult so noob tanks are god mode unless there are other tanks around. Noob tanks should be effective until infantry rolls an AV fit or against other noob tanks Highly skilled tanker should be pretty much impossible to kill unless a whole squad rolls av to take them down. also the speed thing is ridiculous. Are they tanks or Nascars?
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 775	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:47:00 - [46] - Quote Munin-Frey wrote: The big problem is that there isn't enough difference between hurting highly skilled tankers and low skill tankers. A single medium skilled infantry with AV should be able to kill a noob tank. Maybe not right away but certainly before running out of ammo. It's that simple in my opinion. Right now you might be able to kill one but it is too difficult so noob tanks are god mode unless there are other tanks around. Noob tanks should be effective until infantry rolls an AV fit or against other noob tanks Highly skilled tanker should be pretty much impossible to kill unless a whole squad rolls av to take them down. also the speed thing is ridiculous. Are they tanks or Nascars? Nope they are a tribute to Paul Walker Fast and Furious 7
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 521	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:03:00 - [47] - Quote No. Tanks are too fast with no way to slow them down or stop them. DShips just fly away with impunity unless it's a rail or forge targeting. Remotes are great but there are many issues with them that make them unreliable. Tanks have 3rd person view that makes it very difficult to sneak up on....should be more limited. If a tank moves while laying remotes, great chance the remotes just fall off. Plus it takes 3+ to kill a tank meaning boundless is the only option for non logis...and good luck getting them laid in time. Some AV weapons are so non viable that they are worthless like the PlC or mines. Why these were not fixed is beyond me. AV received too many limitations while tanks/dships received none. Why fight the battle when you can just call in your own tank that is 10x more effective?
echo47 Minmatar Republic 169	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:54:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND Yes. AV is working as intended, it now takes more than on player to destroy a properly skilled tank. One player can persuade a tank to take a different route. And from what I understand that was the intention. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3475	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:16:00 - [49] - Quote echo47 wrote: Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND Yes. AV is working as intended, it now takes more than on player to destroy a properly skilled tank. One player can persuade a tank to take a different route. And from what I understand that was the intention. Did you really need that many line spaces? Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 3573	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:17:00 - [50] - Quote Yes; active hardeners are simply too powerful. That doesn't mean AV couldn't use some form of buff, though. We used to have a time machine

Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 813	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:20:00 - [51] - Quote Does not. If you are in an ambush you will be tank rolled into the ground no matter what AV you are gonna field. This is not to say that 3 AV can't take out one tank. In theory - sure. In practice you have 5 red tanks rolling in an ambush and the score goes 7 clones remaining of blue, 70 of red in under 3 minutes. If there was effective AV I surely would have seen at least a game or two in the dozens of ambushes I played since 1.7 has descended. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 813	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:25:00 - [52] - Quote I will say this against AV. Whoever made and put Swarm Launcher in the game screwed up. Auto - lock dumb fire AV weapon... Really? No wonder they had to buff vehicles in 1.7. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2137	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:37:00 - [53] - Quote I think a fully kitted out AFG does around 700 damage to my shields when I cycle. One clip can just pop me if all shots land since the regen stops but I don't run a booster/extender usually, which makes sense. With an extender/booster I could probably tank a whole clip. Usually I just double harden and mow AFGs down. FGs can kill infantry, have rounds that travel quickly and have good range, despite long charge times. Other than charge times, at least at proto, they are not bad. Swarms, on the other hand, are practically useless. Multiple fully kitted out proto swarms can dent my hardener Gunnlogi, but they'd need to stop and reload if I ran an extender/booster. Not sure how the regen would work with 2 synched proto, but I think it'd stop. Triple hardened is basically invincible unless you have 10 guys firing AFGs at it. AV Grenades are just laughable unless you run proto packed and sit there on a hive tossing them endlessly and the guy doesn't move. Basically, you need proto AV to take out most decent STD tanks and even then only FGs are worth anything. Most players don't have a proto FG to whip out. There are exceptions and even MLT can pop stupid tankers. I'd like swarms to get 270 damage a missile, forges to have a half second shaved off their charge time and AV grenades to do a few hundred more damage each. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.


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