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Do You Believe That AV is Working As Intended?

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3410	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:12:00 - [1] - Quote Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 263	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:20:00 - [2] - Quote AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5624	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:27:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND **** no. I would return it to its 1.6 Damage models with 1.7 ranges, charge up times, and lock on range, and see how that work, then I would slowly tweak the number until I found a place that sat rather "just right". Where tanks are risky business but not made wholly impotent by AV. Some of the work though need to be done on the tanks side of the fence. "Face the enemy as a solid wall. For faith is your armour and through it, the enemy will find no breach" -Askura 10:3
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 545	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:32:00 - [4] - Quote No. We only get rewarded for vehicle destruction. Our job as AV has two aspects: Repel vehicles, and destroy them if possible. Rewards for doing the other part of our job would be nice. (CCP [insert proper dev here] said it may come) Of course, some balance fine tuning is in order as well
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9956	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:41:00 - [5] - Quote Forge guns: Yes. They are still strong solo, but really shine with either one additional forge, or two swarm launchers. Swarm launchers:Top level damage output seems almost fair, but that's at the very top level. Standard and Advanced level swarms do negligable damage. Projectile speed is too low to be a persistent threat to assault dropships. Plasma Cannons:: These need a moderate buff to direct damage, and a slight reduction in reload speed, and faster projectile speed for starters. This weapon would strongly benefit from a burn effect, but the devs have stated that this isn't technically possible at this time, so will have to wait. AV Grenades: These were never intended to be a primary source of AV, and are merely supplemental damage. As such, they seem to be working ok. Perhaps a very small buff to damage. Remote Explosives: Excellent. Suicide LAVs are probably OP, but they bring such satisfaction to my soul, as a pilot who has suffered at the hands of redline railtanks for far too long now. Vehicle vs Vehicles: All seems well here except for the dominance of large railguns, though the issues with railguns are not entirely with the turret itself. Damage falloff would be consistent with small railguns, and a longer spool up would stretch out engagements that much longer, and require a bit more skill to operate. Damage mods should also be limited to one active at any time, but that applies to all turrets. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 1615	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:42:00 - [6] - Quote REs work great. a tank with hardeners can usually handle a couple of them, but without hardeners running, it's an OHK an all but a gunlogi stacking extenders and nothing else. Everything else is garbage and needs a buff. I'm a good pilot, but there is no reason i can take on a proto forge gun and win with an unhardened sica. I should be getting OHK'd by proto breach forges without a hardeneer every time, and the same applies to a wikiswarm/soma circumstance. Swarms, plasma cannons, re's, mines, and forges should get 10WP/1000DMG (not counting resistances) done to vehicles. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
The Attorney General 1741	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:42:00 - [7] - Quote Some yes, some no. AV nades are pretty good. Swarms need more damage FG needs its charge time dropped back to 1.6 levels. PLC needs pre charge reduction, damage buff and a reload buff. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Leadfoot10 molon labe. Public Disorder. 232	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:59:00 - [8] - Quote Swarms are too weak, tanks (hardeners, in particular) are too strong, and militia tanks are too inexpensive. AV nades and forges are about right. IMO, of course. :)
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3980	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:01:00 - [9] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: No. We only get rewarded for vehicle destruction. Our job as AV has two aspects: Repel vehicles, and destroy them if possible. Rewards for doing the other part of our job would be nice. (CCP [insert proper dev here] said it may come) Of course, some balance fine tuning is in order as well would be nice to be rewarded for damaging a vehicle again. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 144	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:03:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND No, when a no skill militia tank is more effective at taking out vehicles then dedicated soldiers who spend millions of SP into AV then no

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2080	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:16:00 - [11] - Quote If hardeners and speed remain as is, I want the old lock range back. Beer before Liquor, never sicker. Toothpaste before Orange Juice, you're dead.
Tch Tch Red Shirts Away Team 114	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:28:00 - [12] - Quote Swarms are probably working in 1.7 as intended. This is not the same as saying they are fit for purpose. I expect that the ability to make swarms visit at their long ranges was harder then nerfing their range. I would like to be able to fire a long range dumb fire swarm missile. It would only get the immobile tanks. Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 301	Posted - 2014.01.13 05:15:00 - [13] - Quote In order to adequately respond to this question, I would have to write a veritable essay on what a sensible balance would look like. But I will say I don't believe things are correctly balanced, and it will take changes to both vehicles and AV, and also, need I once again mention the maps? The Tank Balancing Factor No One Is Discussing
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3413	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:02:00 - [14] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: If hardeners and speed remain as is, I want the old lock range back. While I do agree that 175m is far too short, 400m was far too long. Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
steve0809 GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:18:00 - [15] - Quote Shadow of War88 wrote: Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND No, when a no skill militia tank is more effective at taking out vehicles then dedicated soldiers who spend millions of SP into AV then no What he said +1
Lorhak Gannarsein 1198	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:26:00 - [16] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Title Is Self-Explanatory If yes, then how is it working as intended? If no, then why isn't it working as intended, and what would you do to improve it? -HAND **** no. I would return it to its 1.6 Damage models with 1.7 ranges, charge up times, and lock on range, and see how that work, then I would slowly tweak the number until I found a place that sat rather "just right". Where tanks are risky business but not made wholly impotent by AV. Some of the work though need to be done on the tanks side of the fence. EDIT- I however you increase the PG and CPU usage models of the Heavy Damage module making stacking them very difficult. I would be wary of changing them that much - otherwise the only viable fittings would be multiple hardeners. A Breach FG could alpha through a Gunnlogi, assuming the weak point was hit. And a Wiyrkomi swarm would kill a typical Madrugar inside (subjectively) three seconds. PRO tanker and proud.
Clyffton Donovan Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 50	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:27:00 - [17] - Quote AV works fine. I've gotten a few dozen militia ones under my belt and i've only spec'd in maybe half a mil to AV. I do wish the swarm launcher had it's range from back in 1.6, but the damage is ok if you know how to set up your suits. Now I will say that you do have to be smarter with AV now that tanks are balanced and better. IE: wait till hardeners are done before using explosives, sneaking up on them instead of swarming them from 400M, learning the different types of tanks and bringing the right equipment. I think once the tank spam problem is fixed and there are one to two tanks on the field, people will agree that AV is ok. Director / Combat Medic Zulu Squad Leader Invictus Maneo~ "I Remain Unvanquished"
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 864	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:31:00 - [18] - Quote I use Standard fair AV grenades on the Starter Anti-Armor suit and I'm able to damage most tanks(unless they're shield stacking with shield-extenders). I'm still experimenting but if I can hit tanks with 1,000+ worth of damage with an Advanced Packed Grenade, I could a lot of my fights sooner. Considering that the highest stack I've seen is 4k something on Armor, 3 hits of those plus an Advanced SL might be nice. So. Yeah. I would have to say it's working as intended but people fail to grapple with tanks on the field. Anyone can make the same fit I made, let alone with a few more SP make it better. Just buy from the explosives and grenade SP skills and you'll be there. Mind you, I only have standard AV (non-pack) grenades. I'll hear my squad QQing about the tank but only see one other guy dealing with it. And usually when we're both working together, tanks can't handle it. In the future though, they'll need to find some balance between ADV-PRO tanks and the current AV system we have. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3414	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:33:00 - [19] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. Has anyone here ever been killed by a single STD Swarm Launcher? Pretty sure that the people complaining about AV don't use STD Swarms Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4292	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:35:00 - [20] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: No. We only get rewarded for vehicle destruction. Our job as AV has two aspects: Repel vehicles, and destroy them if possible. Rewards for doing the other part of our job would be nice. (CCP [insert proper dev here] said it may come) Of course, some balance fine tuning is in order as well would be nice to be rewarded for damaging a vehicle again. These. Need vehicle damage WP so AV players can see rewards for doing their job.

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3415	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:41:00 - [21] - Quote CCP has confirmed that WP for vehicle damage will make a return in 1.8 Though I do believe that thg WP given for a vehicle destruction should be increased, that way we don't have AVers playing FarmVille. Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 110	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:45:00 - [22] - Quote No, but it's not as terrible as others have made it out to be. Points for damage/mobility kills is a must. All but one suit must sacrifice the ability to effectively handle enemy infantry to deal with enemy armour, therefore AV is a role like any other and should be able to draw upon a greater wealth of WP. Points for damage and mobility kills would be greatly appreciated. Swarms need to be faster, and the PLC need ps it bugs to be fixed. Rather than re-balance these two weapons to make them inherently better at killing armour (or in the swarms case, tanks, because I see it as an anti-dropship deterrent by design), create breach variants of both that allow them to handle tanks bit little else. The breach swarm should function like the torpedoes of EvE; slow, unguided, but massively destructive. The breach PLC should require a charge up time, have a flatter trajectory but much, much shorter effective range. That former is effective against armour, the latter shields. Beyond that, perhaps a minor buff to AV Andes at standard level? It's dangerous, though.mwe all remember the AV spam of 1.6. Let's not go back to that. Dedicated Commando. So it's a good job KDR doesn't bother me, really.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 772	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:45:00 - [23] - Quote AV seems mostly fine. I think swarms need a range buff, maybe 300m (disclaimer, I am a proto swarmer and have been since the beginning). Other than that, tanks are feared and efficient but killable. Bad tankers can be solo'd, good tankers can be team killed or solo'd with a bit of luck. Militia tanks & items need a nerf. *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 771	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:56:00 - [24] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3415	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:01:00 - [25] - Quote Any more thoughts? Atiim (Wyrikomi Swarm Launcher) Tank Spammer Tank Spammer (Soma - MLT 80GJ Blaster) Atiim And this is why I drink.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 421	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:09:00 - [26] - Quote The problem isn't "AV working as intended" so much as "Is there any reason to choose AV-specific gear?" Sad truth: 1. REs are more effective (and more versatile) than proximity mines. If an item exists for one purpose--and one purpose only--it shouldn't be less effective than a multi-use item. 2. A militia Sica/Soma is about 1/2 the cost of my proto SL suit, while offering a. greater safety and b. increased range. I don't bother with my SLs anymore...what a waste of SP. Life is killing me.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4301	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:12:00 - [27] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar.
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR F.T.U. IMMORTAL REGIME 1188	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:12:00 - [28] - Quote well, I can usually solo tanks with my AV fit, which is: Boundless REs Plasma Cannon Packed AV Grenades so I'd say that all AV except for swarm launchers are working as intended. tanks, however are not. reduce the max amount of tanks on the battlefield so that the match isn't won by the side with more tanks and I'd say we'd be just about right. Anime > EVERYTHING
PEW JACKSON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 182	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:16:00 - [29] - Quote Enemy Asset Damage +35 Do 1k ehp worth of damage to an enemy vehicle? Here, take this 35 WP for every time you repel that vehicle. If Logis can farm WP doing their jobs why shouldn't AV? Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 773	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:21:00 - [30] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: AV is working very well as intended, proto swarms and advanced forgeguns make tanks run or kill them if they dont, REs are common and deadly and i have been finished off by random guys packing av nades quite often. Its just people who used to solo tanks with std swarms all day that are crying. Tho i willl say large rail turrets need a nerf. I think you are talking about 1.6 2 Proto Swarms (Full proficiancy) + lai dai < Soma I think you are talking about bad AV players. 2 Proto Swarms in competent hands WITHOUT AV Grenades > Madrugar. I hope so too, but that's not the case unfortunately.



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