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Payload delivery (TTK and weapon balance) [maths inside]

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Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 839	Posted - 2014.01.08 12:44:00 - [31] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: 1v1 Rei Shepard RR Vs Rei Shepard ScR, how wins? Come on man use your head. The numbers don't lie. "So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ?" What does this even mean? Ok lets do the Rei vs Rei thing... So i did the math with both no mods and 3x damage mods against my typical suit setups No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 1.375 seconds, with needing 11 shots to kill myself, i got 5 more shots left before overheat and i die the RR kills myself in 1.5 seconds, with needing 13 shots to kill myself, i got 29 shots left in the clip with mods and a suit 225 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 0.875 seconds, i got 9 shots more so i can kill myself 1.28 times again right after the RR kills myself in 1 second, i got 34 rounds left so i can kill myself 4.25 additional times This includes the spool time of 0.2 seconds, so basically when i start firing at myself there is a 0.125 second gap where the SCR outperforms the RR in Close Quarter Combat when using Damage Mods but its sustained rate is 3 times less then the Rail Rifle. 0.12 Seconds is very far below Human Average reaction speeds, only if i face myself, ill be able to kill myself faster with the SCR, but if i screw up with the SCR, i could have killed myself 5 times over with the RR before i come out of overheat on the SCR. 0.125 seconds advantage over the RR's no overheat is no advantage and explains allot why i am dying less with the RR in CQC. I think you need to check your math. I've already posted the acurate numbers (and that is without including spool time and your numbers are way off. Here are the actual numbers: Rei Shepard wrote: No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor (These numbers are calculated with prof 4, since you did not specify what your prof was, ad spool time) RR: 2.10477242 seconds ScR: 1.4397096 seconds These numbers are acurate. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 839	Posted - 2014.01.08 12:56:00 - [32] - Quote {edit^^^ [clarical error] wrote "ad spool time" should be "and spool time". {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1366	Posted - 2014.01.08 12:59:00 - [33] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: 1v1 Rei Shepard RR Vs Rei Shepard ScR, how wins? Come on man use your head. The numbers don't lie. "So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ?" What does this even mean? Ok lets do the Rei vs Rei thing... So i did the math with both no mods and 3x damage mods against my typical suit setups No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 1.375 seconds, with needing 11 shots to kill myself, i got 5 more shots left before overheat and i die the RR kills myself in 1.5 seconds, with needing 13 shots to kill myself, i got 29 shots left in the clip with mods and a suit 225 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 0.875 seconds, i got 9 shots more so i can kill myself 1.28 times again right after the RR kills myself in 1 second, i got 34 rounds left so i can kill myself 4.25 additional times This includes the spool time of 0.2 seconds, so basically when i start firing at myself there is a 0.125 second gap where the SCR outperforms the RR in Close Quarter Combat when using Damage Mods but its sustained rate is 3 times less then the Rail Rifle. 0.12 Seconds is very far below Human Average reaction speeds, only if i face myself, ill be able to kill myself faster with the SCR, but if i screw up with the SCR, i could have killed myself 5 times over with the RR before i come out of overheat on the SCR. 0.125 seconds advantage over the RR's no overheat is no advantage and explains allot why i am dying less with the RR in CQC. I think you need to check your math. I've already posted the acurate numbers (and that is without including spool time and your numbers are way off. Here are the actual numbers: Rei Shepard wrote: No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor (These numbers are calculated with prof 4, since you did not specify what your prof was, ad spool time) RR: 2.10477242 seconds ScR: 1.4397096 seconds These numbers are acurate. Your math was off since the moment you didnt take into consideration of hitting Shields and Armor, my stats take into account first depleting my own shields and then my armor, seeing i fight myself, its only logical i fight my own suit setup. Your math is never used on the battlefield, so why use it, or base of from it ? What the SCR does to shields then swaps to armor is all of a sudden a huge spike in damage dropoff where the RR is first slower against shields but speeds up and almost overtakes the SCR against armor. Seeing Most people need to Armor Tank to fit 3 damage mods or at least have more armor then shields, the RR would come out ahead if firing at a Gallente Logi by a large margin. Maybe you should do your own math all over again but using the weapons efficiencies against actual suits that run such guns. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 7649	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:15:00 - [34] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dude, GTFO of here with this stupid ****. Math was my major in college bro. I would hope that if you had studied maths to such an extent you would realise how pointless going to 8 decimal places is. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 839	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:16:00 - [35] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: 1v1 Rei Shepard RR Vs Rei Shepard ScR, how wins? Come on man use your head. The numbers don't lie. "So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ?" What does this even mean? Ok lets do the Rei vs Rei thing... So i did the math with both no mods and 3x damage mods against my typical suit setups No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 1.375 seconds, with needing 11 shots to kill myself, i got 5 more shots left before overheat and i die the RR kills myself in 1.5 seconds, with needing 13 shots to kill myself, i got 29 shots left in the clip with mods and a suit 225 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 0.875 seconds, i got 9 shots more so i can kill myself 1.28 times again right after the RR kills myself in 1 second, i got 34 rounds left so i can kill myself 4.25 additional times This includes the spool time of 0.2 seconds, so basically when i start firing at myself there is a 0.125 second gap where the SCR outperforms the RR in Close Quarter Combat when using Damage Mods but its sustained rate is 3 times less then the Rail Rifle. 0.12 Seconds is very far below Human Average reaction speeds, only if i face myself, ill be able to kill myself faster with the SCR, but if i screw up with the SCR, i could have killed myself 5 times over with the RR before i come out of overheat on the SCR. 0.125 seconds advantage over the RR's no overheat is no advantage and explains allot why i am dying less with the RR in CQC. I think you need to check your math. I've already posted the acurate numbers (and that is without including spool time and your numbers are way off. Here are the actual numbers: Rei Shepard wrote: No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor (These numbers are calculated with prof 4, since you did not specify what your prof was, ad spool time) RR: 2.10477242 seconds ScR: 1.4397096 seconds These numbers are acurate. Your math was off since the moment you didnt take into consideration of hitting Shields and Armor, my stats take into account first depleting my own shields and then my armor, seeing i fight myself, its only logical i fight my own suit setup. Your math is never used on the battlefield, so why use it, or base of from it ? What the SCR does to shields then swaps to armor is all of a sudden a huge spike in damage dropoff where the RR is first slower against shields but speeds up and almost overtakes the SCR against armor. Seeing Most people need to Armor Tank to fit 3 damage mods or at least have more armor then shields, the RR would come out ahead if firing at a Gallente Logi by a large margin. Maybe you should do your own math all over again but using the weapons efficiencies against actual suits that run such guns. My math was calculated considering both weapon's efficacies toward shield/armor: ScR = 120%/80% and RR = 110%/90%. Now I can post the equations and actually PROVE you wrong. But if that is really necessary then it will have to wait until I get out of the shower plus the time it takes my to formulat the equations into a linear format. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 839	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:19:00 - [36] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Dude, GTFO of here with this stupid ****. Math was my major in college bro. I would hope that if you had studied maths to such an extent you would realise how pointless going to 8 decimal places is. Copy and past from the calculator. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1366	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:19:00 - [37] - Quote Quote: My math was calculated considering both weapon's efficacies toward shield/armor: ScR = 120%/80% and RR = 110%/90%. Now I can post the equations and actually PROVE you wrong. But if that is really necessary then it will have to wait until I get out of the shower plus the time it takes my to formulat the equations into a linear format. Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? Besides you have your RR stats the way around. it deals 90% to shields and 110% vs armor. Quote: The following numbers represent how long it takes each weapon to output 600 HP damage on a level field (no efficacy bonuses) with the exception of the ACR. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 839	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:46:00 - [38] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? Besides you have your RR stats the way around. it deals 90% to shields and 110% vs armor. Oops my bad, clarical error. Is was not calculated that way. My numbers are still accurate. Fixing the mistake now. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 89	Posted - 2014.01.08 13:54:00 - [39] - Quote You tell him Rei. I think the biggest point OP is missing is when you can only fire 16 shoots before overheating the ScR, every damn shoot must hit your target. Even missing 2 shoots can be 200+ damage not applied to your target. While automatic weapons have a lot more margin for error when baddies are praying and spraying with them. The ScRs high alpha damage does reward players with good aim. But the heat buildup prevents prolonged engagements and punishes noobs that don't know how to handle the ScR. Also there is always going to be one weapon that is king at something. The mechanics of the ScR allow it to be very, very good at 1 v 1, ok at 1 v 2, and your probably a dead man at 1 v 3. Especially with all the armor suits running around. If I know I will engage in a lot of cqc, I prefer the RS90 over my CRW as it doesn't overheat and kills almost as fast.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 840	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:02:00 - [40] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. In the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and thoses that are shield tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent. As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."

Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1368	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:10:00 - [41] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. in the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and ships tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent. As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word. I looks like i am insisting, because you do not take into cosideration fits that are 225/522 or the way around, i posted 2 fits a 443/522 and a 225/522, the latter you didnt even go into. If all you consider is everyone running around with even Shields/Armor, then hoo boy ... Besides, if someone would Actually take 1.4-1.5 seconds to kill me, thats hardly an Alpha-Strike kill, in 1.5 seconds, if you cannot counter perform any action during that time, you might consider a game with flowers and unicorns to be better for you. 0.25 Seconds average reaction time, 0.4 seconds Average aim time, where is that guys counter attack he has 0.85 seconds left.. So i guess i insist... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Izlare Lenix FREE AGENTS LP 91	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:18:00 - [42] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. In the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and ships tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent. As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word. Brick tanking is a none factor? You just proved you don't know what the hell you are talking about. All heavies are brick tanked. Almost all Gal, and Amarr med frames are brick tanked. Most minny med frames are brick tanked and the few that aren't still have more armor then shields. Caldari med frames are normally closer in balance unless they have stacked damage mods, thus giving them more armor than shields. Even the Gal proto Scott can and often does have 500-600 armor. Get your facts straight. The reduced damage a ScR does against armor suits effects the guns performance. This is one reason I often switch to my smg during a cqc fight as I get the armor bonus and I won't overheat and die.
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1368	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:21:00 - [43] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: You tell him Rei. I think the biggest point OP is missing is when you can only fire 16 shoots before overheating the ScR, every damn shoot must hit your target. Even missing 2 shoots can be 200+ damage not applied to your target. While automatic weapons have a lot more margin for error when baddies are praying and spraying with them. The ScRs high alpha damage does reward players with good aim. But the heat buildup prevents prolonged engagements and punishes noobs that don't know how to handle the ScR. Also there is always going to be one weapon that is king at something. The mechanics of the ScR allow it to be very, very good at 1 v 1, ok at 1 v 2, and your probably a dead man at 1 v 3. Especially with all the armor suits running around. If I know I will engage in a lot of cqc, I prefer the RS90 over my CRW as it doesn't overheat and kills almost as fast. Its because of people like me, that can kill 7 people with it before i overheat that people like him think there is something wrong with it, the diffrence is i squeeze ever last ounce of performance out of my suit, enviroment, threat assesment, aim, reaction speed, cover and i couple that to an Alpha Strike weapon, then when they see the killfeed roll in start foaming at the lips. (7 is my record in CQC in rapid succession, 6 of them where a Maphia Clan Unit i was instantly loaded with a Tearmail saying Turbo Scrub, so i swapped to a fully auto ASCR and we re-enacted the same scenario, he later oppologized to me as they were all very very dead again :p) People Don't know how it is to see 7 people swarm you from opposite sides, with just a bit of boxes for cover its goes like SCR KIll, SGM Kill, cover, SCR KILL, SCR KILL, SMG KILL, cover, Elbow, SMG KILL, SCR Kill and have an empty SMG and an overheating SCR and 3 Armor Health left... all they see is KillFeed Rei bla bla KillFeed Rei bla bla KillFeed Rei bla bla KillFeed Rei bla bla KillFeed Rei bla bla KillFeed Rei bla bla KillFeed Rei bla bla and go apesh*t OMG Gun is OP!! PS: 3-4 is a more reasonable amount to kill that one can do on many occasions with the SCR before overheat sets in, 7 is just my record :p but 4 where headshots Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1368	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:26:00 - [44] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. In the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and ships tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent. As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word. Brick tanking is a none factor? You just proved you don't know what the hell you are talking about. All heavies are brick tanked. Almost all Gal, and Amarr med frames are brick tanked. Most minny med frames are brick tanked and the few that aren't still have more armor then shields. Caldari med frames are normally closer in balance unless they have stacked damage mods, thus giving them more armor than shields. Even the Gal proto Scott can and often does have 500-600 armor. Get your facts straight. The reduced damage a ScR does against armor suits effects the guns performance. This is one reason I often switch to my smg during a cqc fight as I get the armor bonus and I won't overheat and die. Well said, he should try to kill a Gall Logi with a core rep tool on his *ss, that brick EHP doesnt even move when we go to armor, even with 3 damage mods it only shakes lightly. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 840	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:37:00 - [45] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: I looks like i am insisting, because you do not take into cosideration fits that are 225/522 or the way around, i posted 2 fits a 443/522 and a 225/522, the latter you didnt even go into. I you wanted the math of that fit as well, all you had to do was ask: Prot ScR: 1.18371213 Proto RR1.39006191 But, in adition to the ScR still wining it is a moot point when you have guys running around with the exact opposit fitting 500 shield 200 armor. Do you want me to post the TTK for one of those? You won't like it I guarantee. Also I am procrastinating on posting the math, because it is a lot of work, until you say these word "show me the math. And then I'm going to be like, ahh ****, this is going to suck. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 840	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:48:00 - [46] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. In the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and ships tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent. As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word. Brick tanking is a none factor? You just proved you don't know what the hell you are talking about. All heavies are brick tanked. Almost all Gal, and Amarr med frames are brick tanked. Most minny med frames are brick tanked and the few that aren't still have more armor then shields. Caldari med frames are normally closer in balance unless they have stacked damage mods, thus giving them more armor than shields. Even the Gal proto Scott can and often does have 500-600 armor. Get your facts straight. The reduced damage a ScR does against armor suits effects the guns performance. This is one reason I often switch to my smg during a cqc fight as I get the armor bonus and I won't overheat and die. Dude, learn math, then come back and talk to me. I am quite confident that I have proved my point against you to anybody who is sufficiently educated in mathematics, I imagine that this would include the folks at CCP. I'm through arguing with you. Grow a brain then come back and talk to me. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1370	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:49:00 - [47] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: I looks like i am insisting, because you do not take into cosideration fits that are 225/522 or the way around, i posted 2 fits a 443/522 and a 225/522, the latter you didnt even go into. I you wanted the math of that fit as well, all you had to do was ask: Prot ScR: 1.18371213 Proto RR1.39006191 But, in adition to the ScR still wining it is a moot point when you have guys running around with the exact opposit fitting 500 shield 200 armor (do you know anything about the law of averages and why it is used?). Do you want me to post the TTK for one of those? You won't like it I guarantee. Also I am procrastinating on posting the math, because it is a lot of work, until you say these word "show me the math. And then I'm going to be like, ahh ****, this is going to suck. {edit>>> forgot to as spool time. So RR should be: 1.64006191 Math is still too slow if you consider with skills at 4 you are doing 67.76 damage with an RR, not concerning about Mods or Efficiency its still doing 512 Damage per second or needing 1.63 seconds to kill on a 225/522 suit. So somehow, you are not appling damage mods on there? Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 619	Posted - 2014.01.08 14:58:00 - [48] - Quote mmmmm Maths, and it's done badly woooo. Ok this is my area, none of you are gonna like it but I'm gonna lay out all the maths. I'm gonna use the base weapon with no skills. because that's where you start. and I'm gonna show the maths wiiiiii. Assualt riffle. rate of fire 750 rounds per minute. or 1 round every .08 seconds thats 60/750 seconds/rounds :) dmg per round 34. so 400 dmg in 11.7647 shots. ok so we multiply that out and we get .9411 seconds to do 400 dmg. Scrambler rifle. rate of fire 705.88 rounds per minute so that's 60/705.88 we get .085 rounds per second. dmg per round is 72 so 400 dmg in 5.555 shots. ok so we again multiply that out and we get .4721 seconds to do 400 dmg Combat riffle. rate of fire 1200 rounds per minute. so we have 60/1200 we get .05 rounds a second. dmg per round is 32 so 400 dmg in 12.5 rounds. more muliplication gives us .625 seconds. and finally the Rail rifle. rate of fire 461.54 rounds per minute so 60/461.54 we get .12999 rounds a second. dmg per round is 55 so 400 rounds in 7.2727 shots more maths means we have a total time of .9447 ok now that you have all of the proper math, feel free to argue about what is and is not over powered. Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1370	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:03:00 - [49] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: mmmmm Maths, and it's done badly woooo. Ok this is my area, none of you are gonna like it but I'm gonna lay out all the maths. I'm gonna use the base weapon with no skills. because that's where you start. and I'm gonna show the maths wiiiiii. Assualt riffle. rate of fire 750 rounds per minute. or 1 round every .08 seconds thats 60/750 seconds/rounds :) dmg per round 34. so 400 dmg in 11.7647 shots. ok so we multiply that out and we get .9411 seconds to do 400 dmg. Scrambler rifle. rate of fire 705.88 rounds per minute so that's 60/705.88 we get .085 rounds per second. dmg per round is 72 so 400 dmg in 5.555 shots. ok so we again multiply that out and we get .4721 seconds to do 400 dmg Combat riffle. rate of fire 1200 rounds per minute. so we have 60/1200 we get .05 rounds a second. dmg per round is 32 so 400 dmg in 12.5 rounds. more muliplication gives us .625 seconds. and finally the Rail rifle. rate of fire 461.54 rounds per minute so 60/461.54 we get .12999 rounds a second. dmg per round is 55 so 400 rounds in 7.2727 shots more maths means we have a total time of .9447 ok now that you have all of the proper math, feel free to argue about what is and is not over powered. your math takes into consideration eveyone using the SCR has a modded controller and fires at its full Rof, witch is not the case, but i do agree they need to fix that issue. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 619	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:05:00 - [50] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: your math takes into consideration eveyone using the SCR has a modded controller and fires at its full Rof, witch is not the case, but i do agree they need to fix that issue. Negative sir, I am just using the values provided by CCP in the game client. they are avalible on the show info screen under the attributes tab. Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.

Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1370	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:06:00 - [51] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: your math takes into consideration eveyone using the SCR has a modded controller and fires at its full Rof, witch is not the case, but i do agree they need to fix that issue. Negative sir, I am just using the values provided by CCP in the game client. they are avalible on the show info screen under the attributes tab. Oh you are one of those guys, nm carry on Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 619	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:09:00 - [52] - Quote you mean some one that knows how to do maths, does them with the proper numbers as supplied by the database? Yes, yes I am. Did you not read my signature? Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 840	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:12:00 - [53] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: I looks like i am insisting, because you do not take into cosideration fits that are 225/522 or the way around, i posted 2 fits a 443/522 and a 225/522, the latter you didnt even go into. I you wanted the math of that fit as well, all you had to do was ask: Prot ScR: 1.18371213 Proto RR1.39006191 But, in adition to the ScR still wining it is a moot point when you have guys running around with the exact opposit fitting 500 shield 200 armor (do you know anything about the law of averages and why it is used?). Do you want me to post the TTK for one of those? You won't like it I guarantee. Also I am procrastinating on posting the math, because it is a lot of work, until you say these word "show me the math. And then I'm going to be like, ahh ****, this is going to suck. {edit>>> forgot to as spool time. So RR should be: 1.64006191 Math is still too slow if you consider with skills at 4 you are doing 67.76 damage with an RR, not concerning about Mods or Efficiency its still doing 512 Damage per second or needing 1.63 seconds to kill on a 225/522 suit. So somehow, you are not appling damage mods on there? Wasn't attempting to apply damage mods because it is another nonfactor. Here I'll demonstrate: ScR: 0.93658619 RR: 1.34985592 A grand total of 0.04308005 difference between TTK. WOW, we were missing a lot not calculating those three damage mods weren't we {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1370	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:13:00 - [54] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: you mean some one that knows how to do maths, does them with the proper numbers as supplied by the database? Yes, yes I am. Did you not read my signature? No i mean your one of those guys that just use the absolute numbers, not factoring in what can be achived in reality, show me how you shoot 12 times with an SCR or i wont believe your math, yes i am one of those people. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 619	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:18:00 - [55] - Quote who said 12, I believe I said 11.76. Also the math is the math, no matter your beliefs. that's what those numbers work out to. I don't see you arguing about the combat rifle with is a three round burst and it's rate of fire. or the fact that the rail riffle has a spin up time. these are the limits, so you either work at those known factors or you make guesses. using the limits lets you say that at their maximum fire rates achivable or not, this is what they do. and until such a time as the laws of math change, or CCP changes the data in the games those are the numbers. Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 840	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:19:00 - [56] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: mmmmm Maths, and it's done badly woooo. Ok this is my area, none of you are gonna like it but I'm gonna lay out all the maths. I'm gonna use the base weapon with no skills. because that's where you start. and I'm gonna show the maths wiiiiii. Assualt riffle. rate of fire 750 rounds per minute. or 1 round every .08 seconds thats 60/750 seconds/rounds :) dmg per round 34. so 400 dmg in 11.7647 shots. ok so we multiply that out and we get .9411 seconds to do 400 dmg. Scrambler rifle. rate of fire 705.88 rounds per minute so that's 60/705.88 we get .085 rounds per second. dmg per round is 72 so 400 dmg in 5.555 shots. ok so we again multiply that out and we get .4721 seconds to do 400 dmg Combat riffle. rate of fire 1200 rounds per minute. so we have 60/1200 we get .05 rounds a second. dmg per round is 32 so 400 dmg in 12.5 rounds. more muliplication gives us .625 seconds. and finally the Rail rifle. rate of fire 461.54 rounds per minute so 60/461.54 we get .12999 rounds a second. dmg per round is 55 so 400 rounds in 7.2727 shots more maths means we have a total time of .9447 ok now that you have all of the proper math, feel free to argue about what is and is not over powered. Te exact math I used calculated to 600 damage instead of 400. Also I do believe that ther is a unlisted burst delay interval, so I am pretty sure that your vanilla CR stats are off. {edit>>> also I used a lower RoF for the ScR for reasons stated in the OP. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 619	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:23:00 - [57] - Quote there may be a refire delay, I would have to ask wolfman next time he drops by the irc channel. but you can only work with data that is presented. Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 840	Posted - 2014.01.08 15:26:00 - [58] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: mmmmm Maths, and it's done badly woooo. Ok this is my area, none of you are gonna like it but I'm gonna lay out all the maths. I'm gonna use the base weapon with no skills. because that's where you start. and I'm gonna show the maths wiiiiii. Assualt riffle. rate of fire 750 rounds per minute. or 1 round every .08 seconds thats 60/750 seconds/rounds :) dmg per round 34. so 400 dmg in 11.7647 shots. ok so we multiply that out and we get .9411 seconds to do 400 dmg. Scrambler rifle. rate of fire 705.88 rounds per minute so that's 60/705.88 we get .085 rounds per second. dmg per round is 72 so 400 dmg in 5.555 shots. ok so we again multiply that out and we get .4721 seconds to do 400 dmg Combat riffle. rate of fire 1200 rounds per minute. so we have 60/1200 we get .05 rounds a second. dmg per round is 32 so 400 dmg in 12.5 rounds. more muliplication gives us .625 seconds. and finally the Rail rifle. rate of fire 461.54 rounds per minute so 60/461.54 we get .12999 rounds a second. dmg per round is 55 so 400 rounds in 7.2727 shots more maths means we have a total time of .9447 ok now that you have all of the proper math, feel free to argue about what is and is not over powered. The exact math I used calculated to 600 damage instead of 400. Also I do believe that ther is a unlisted burst delay interval, so I am pretty sure that your vanilla CR stats are off. {edit>>> also I used a lower RoF for the ScR for reasons stated in the OP. {:)}{3GÇó> "Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1709	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:00:00 - [59] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: +1 for science, sir. I believe these are reasonable suggestions. Honestly, DUST's devs should talk to the EVE devs more. It took the EVE guys a while to realize a gun can't both have equal/superior DPS and superior range and be balanced. Pass that knowledge on to your coworkers, CCP dudes. 1 problem here. EVE weapons are pure stats, there is no human element to them and they are all equally easy to use. Lock on. Click. When a weapon in a shooter is harder to use, it is rewarded with better performance than similar weapons that are easier to use. This has been a staple of shooter gameplay for decades. Yours Truly, Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness 1063	Posted - 2014.01.27 10:03:00 - [60] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: +1 for science, sir. I believe these are reasonable suggestions. Honestly, DUST's devs should talk to the EVE devs more. It took the EVE guys a while to realize a gun can't both have equal/superior DPS and superior range and be balanced. Pass that knowledge on to your coworkers, CCP dudes. 1 problem here. EVE weapons are pure stats, there is no human element to them and they are all equally easy to use. Lock on. Click. When a weapon in a shooter is harder to use, it is rewarded with better performance than similar weapons that are easier to use. This has been a staple of shooter gameplay for decades. I am not saying that it should not be rewarded, but the numbers clearly demonstrate that it is being rewards FAR TO MUCH. {:)}{3GÇó>



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