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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
831
   |
Posted - 2014.01.07 20:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
The following numbers represent how long it takes each weapon to output 600 HP damage on a level field (no efficacy bonuses) with the exception of the ACR.
ACR 1.36363636 seconds (need more info on the vanilla CR in order to calculat - specifically "burst delay interval) as well with the projectile type weapons this number will be further reduced by 5% due to it being the only weapon type with an unbalanced damage efficacy swing (i.e. 95%/110%). This number then works out to-á1.29545454
AR-á1.28342246 seconds
RR 1.2892519-á
The SR is a bit tricky as it is a simi-auto weapon. Many sources would say that 660 r/m is pushing the limit of human capability, and that while griping a gun handle (equivalent DS3 grip) achievable RoF is around 480.
This is a video of a world record being set for revolver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStqGyXzbY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
If you subtract the time it took him to reload, the RoF works out to around 8 trigger pulls a second. This will work out to around 480 r/m. So that is the RoF we will use.
SR:-á0.9469697 seconds
So as you can see there is a problem. There is one weapon that is far superior to all of the others: the scrambler rifle, by an obscenely large margin. I feel like this can be easily felt in the field.
Convolution: the SR needs to have its damage per shot reduced in order to to bring it in line with the other weapons.
Also
The difference between the payload output of the AR and CR/RR is very-ánegligible.-áIf the AR is supposed to be the king of CQC then I would recommend increasing the AR's RoF to around 800 r/m.
At 800 r/m the would bring the AR's payload delivery to-á1.20320856 thus adequately making up for what it looses in range.
This is for everyone's consideration, but I hope that CCP will pay particular close attention to this thread.
If anyone is interested in knowing the math I used to calculate these numbers just ask (you too CCP) just ask and I will post the equations.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
831
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 21:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:The following numbers represent how long it takes each weapon to output 600 HP damage on a level field (no efficacy bonuses) with the exception of the ACR. ACR 1.36363636 seconds (need more info on the vanilla CR in order to calculat - specifically "burst delay interval) as well with the projectile type weapons this number will be further reduced by 5% due to it being the only weapon type with an unbalanced damage efficacy swing (i.e. 95%/110%). This number then works out to-á1.29545454 AR-á1.28342246 seconds RR 1.2892519-á The SR is a bit tricky as it is a simi-auto weapon. Many sources would say that 660 r/m is pushing the limit of human capability, and that while griping a gun handle (equivalent DS3 grip) achievable RoF is around 480. This is a video of a world record being set for revolver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStqGyXzbY&feature=youtube_gdata_playerIf you subtract the time it took him to reload, the RoF works out to around 8 trigger pulls a second. This will work out to around 480 r/m. So that is the RoF we will use. SR:-á0.9469697 seconds So as you can see there is a problem. There is one weapon that is far superior to all of the others: the scrambler rifle, by an obscenely large margin. I feel like this can be easily felt in the field. Convolution: the SR needs to have its damage per shot reduced in order to to bring it in line with the other weapons. Also The difference between the payload output of the AR and CR/RR is very-ánegligible.-áIf the AR is supposed to be the king of CQC then I would recommend increasing the AR's RoF to around 800 r/m. At 800 r/m the would bring the AR's payload delivery to-á1.20320856 thus adequately making up for what it looses in range. This is for everyone's consideration, but I hope that CCP will pay particular close attention to this thread. If anyone is interested in knowing the math I used to calculate these numbers just ask (you too CCP) just ask and I will post the equations. If you want to lower the SCR's damage, you will also need to lower its heat build up so you can have longer sustained fire, because there is only 1.6 seconds of continues fire before it overheats, while the other guns can fire for 4-5 seconds, making missing a few rounds not that much of an issue. If you miss with the SCR, yer screwed...so those who you come across make it a habbit of not missing a single round, hence you dead...scrubs with the SCR, i take those on 3 at the same time with a RR in CQC.
Negative standard over heat at 480 r/m should be 2 seconds exactly of continues fire at 16 rounds before overheat. This has been tested (16 rounds beFor overheat). It is considerably longer with Amarr assault.
Though I would agree with you any change to the weapon needs to be done in a balanced way, which would include a proportionate increase to overheat if the numbers on that don't turn out to be out of balance with the other weapons as well.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
831
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Posted - 2014.01.07 21:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Blah blah blah, math math math, oh wait, the SCR is weak against armor - only 80% effective -did you take that into account with your mathematics there chief?
Yes I did; in fact, I stated as much in the OP.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
831
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Posted - 2014.01.07 21:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Blah blah blah, math math math, oh wait, the SCR is weak against armor - only 80% effective -did you take that into account with your mathematics there chief? He didn't take into account -anything- other than what he was focusing on.
Haters Gona hate.
I took into account everything that was necessary. You can prove me wrong by presenting relevant factors that Were not in the OP.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
832
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Posted - 2014.01.07 21:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Did I mention that I am also proficiency 4 in SR? I guess I didn't did I. But on my Son-Of A-Gun Character (my favorite alt or second main, as I like to think of him) I am an Amarr specialist, and my main is a Gal specialist. I also have two other alts and one is a Cal specialist and the other is a Minmatar specialist. I assure you, this analysis is very much unbiased. I was simply running the numbers and noticed the imbalances listed in the OP. that is all.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
836
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Posted - 2014.01.08 09:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bump for posterity's sake.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
836
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Posted - 2014.01.08 09:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Don't let your math overcome logic. Numbers can only tell you so much. So the scrambler rifle can dish out initial damage faster than the other rifles? But guess what? It can't sustain it's damage like the other rifles can. The scrambler rifle is balanced. If anything, it could use a little less hip fire accuracy, but that's it.
I did use logic: in 1v1 combat the scrambler rifle will win everytime, unless you're some kind of a morron.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
837
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Posted - 2014.01.08 09:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Don't let your math overcome logic. Numbers can only tell you so much. So the scrambler rifle can dish out initial damage faster than the other rifles? But guess what? It can't sustain it's damage like the other rifles can. The scrambler rifle is balanced. If anything, it could use a little less hip fire accuracy, but that's it. I did use logic: in 1v1 combat the scrambler rifle will win everytime, unless you're some kind of a morron. Well either I'm a moron (only one "r"), or the Kaalakiota Rail Rifle, Boundless Combat Rifle, and Duvolle Assault Rifle are better than you give them credit for.
"only one "r""
Seriously, a clarical error, that is your retort? Lol.
I'm going with moron.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
838
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Posted - 2014.01.08 10:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kingseeker Kobra wrote:Cant take on multiple people with the SCR
overheating during a fight is almost a guaranteed death
Good luck killing a tanked out heavy before you overheat
Otherwise yes it will tear you apart if they're up close, you're alone, and they land most of their shots.
The proto ScR is capable of outputting 1,742.3094 damage before overheat (with pro 5 and two damage mods; a common enough thing). So I think that that qualifies it to be classed a weapon capable of taking on multiple targets simultaneously. And with it having the lowest TTK out of all the rifles by an extreme margin, I would say that my classing it as imbalanced/OP is acurate.
*Shakes his head* who do you guys think you are trying to fool here? I use th damned thing. I am prof 4 with it.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
838
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 10:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Kingseeker Kobra wrote:Cant take on multiple people with the SCR
overheating during a fight is almost a guaranteed death
Good luck killing a tanked out heavy before you overheat
Otherwise yes it will tear you apart if they're up close, you're alone, and they land most of their shots. The proto ScR is capable of outputting 1,742.3094 damage before overheat (with pro 5 and two damage mods; a common enough thing). So I think that that qualifies it to be classed a weapon capable of taking on multiple targets simultaneously. And with it having the lowest TTK out of all the rifles by an extreme margin, I would say that my classing it as imbalanced/OP is acurate. *Shakes his head* who do you guys think you are trying to fool here? I use th damned thing. I am prof 4 with it. Still, the SCR is an Alpha weapon, you deal everything at the start and have no sustained fireate, all the other guns have lower alpha damage but put out more then double sustained fire. I can kill multiple people with the SCR, but with my Rail Rifle its allot easier (and i am talking CQC as thats the the range i am always in 90% of the time), with the CR people die extremely fast (burst or Assault) and i see no change in how many people i kill at the end of the game, still high 30/40 kills a game but my derp deaths have gone down back to 1-3 vs 4-5 with the SCR. There is little to no margin of error on the SCR, with the CR it fires so many rounds and when aimed at the face many will land there, Rail Rifle is just making sure you don't stop firing, witch is the opposite of the SCR where you want to preserve as much rounds as possible on target. I love the SCR but the RR is my new CQC goto weapon, especially if they push the new changes.
You're missing the entire point here. In 1v1 combat their is no concivable way to compete with this weapon. How in the hell is that balance in anyway at all?
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
838
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Posted - 2014.01.08 11:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Kingseeker Kobra wrote:Cant take on multiple people with the SCR
overheating during a fight is almost a guaranteed death
Good luck killing a tanked out heavy before you overheat
Otherwise yes it will tear you apart if they're up close, you're alone, and they land most of their shots. The proto ScR is capable of outputting 1,742.3094 damage before overheat (with pro 5 and two damage mods; a common enough thing). So I think that that qualifies it to be classed a weapon capable of taking on multiple targets simultaneously. And with it having the lowest TTK out of all the rifles by an extreme margin, I would say that my classing it as imbalanced/OP is acurate. *Shakes his head* who do you guys think you are trying to fool here? I use th damned thing. I am prof 4 with it. Still, the SCR is an Alpha weapon, you deal everything at the start and have no sustained fireate, all the other guns have lower alpha damage but put out more then double sustained fire. I can kill multiple people with the SCR, but with my Rail Rifle its allot easier (and i am talking CQC as thats the the range i am always in 90% of the time), with the CR people die extremely fast (burst or Assault) and i see no change in how many people i kill at the end of the game, still high 30/40 kills a game but my derp deaths have gone down back to 1-3 vs 4-5 with the SCR. There is little to no margin of error on the SCR, with the CR it fires so many rounds and when aimed at the face many will land there, Rail Rifle is just making sure you don't stop firing, witch is the opposite of the SCR where you want to preserve as much rounds as possible on target. I love the SCR but the RR is my new CQC goto weapon, especially if they push the new changes. You're missing the entire point here. In 1v1 combat their is no concivable way to compete with this weapon. How in the hell is that balance in anyway at all? So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ? Every time someone says: OMG i can't kill x solo, people come out of the woodword to r*pe the guy a new hole that says TeamWork, but concering the SCR its "i can't solo a SCR user". The last SCR guy that went up against me last week, who i killed 9 times that game in 1 vs 1 with my RR, send me some nice tears in the mail, youll see when the SCR users pick up another gun, that you won't live allot longer. Most people i shoot with the RR that see me, as in both walk around the corner and spot one another at 5 meters away, do not posses the ability to even start to shoot at me before they die, they would be the same dead if i had an SCR, just their perceived delayed dying instead og the instagib is all that is diffrent. But on both occasions they cannot reach for their gun. If the SCR is that OP, we would have everyone using it, like when the Tac was OP, its way passed Uprising and only a few use it to this date, ive moved on to a gun that cannot be exploited with a Rapid Fire controller, so people don't think i am cheating (KBM player though) because all my last tearmails from people are about me being a turbo fire scrub with the SCR, witch i am oviously am not. But some have already apologised to me when they got the same r*pe rate from my Rail Rifle.
1v1 Rei Shepard RR Vs Rei Shepard ScR, how wins? Come on man use your head. The numbers don't lie.
"So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ?"
What does this even mean
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
838
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 11:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:The following numbers represent how long it takes each weapon to output 600 HP damage on a level field (no efficacy bonuses) with the exception of the ACR. ACR 1.36363636 seconds (need more info on the vanilla CR in order to calculate - specifically "burst delay interval) as well with the projectile type weapons this number will be further reduced by 5% due to it being the only weapon type with an unbalanced damage efficacy swing (i.e. 95%/110%). This number then works out to-á1.29545454 seconds. AR-á1.28342246 seconds. RR 1.2892519-áseconds. The SR is a bit tricky as it is a simi-auto weapon. Many sources would say that 660 r/m is pushing the limit of human capability, and that while griping a gun handle (equivalent DS3 grip) achievable RoF is around 480. This is a video of a world record being set for revolver: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStqGyXzbY&feature=youtube_gdata_playerIf you subtract the time it took him to reload, the RoF works out to around 8 trigger pulls a second (his world record is actually higher than 8 by several desimal points). This will work out to around 480 r/m. So that is the RoF we will use. SR:-á0.9469697 seconds. So as you can see there is a problem. There is one weapon that is far superior to all of the others: the scrambler rifle, by an obscenely large margin. I feel like this can be easily felt in the field. Conclusion: the SR needs to have its damage per shot reduced in order to bring it in line with the other weapons. Also The difference between the payload output of the AR and CR/RR is very-ánegligible.-áIf the AR is supposed to be the king of CQC then I would recommend increasing the AR's RoF to around 800 r/m. At 800 r/m this would bring the AR's payload delivery to-á1.20320856 thus adequately making up for what it looses in range. This is for everyone's consideration, but I hope that CCP will pay particular close attention to this thread. If anyone is interested in knowing the math I used to calculate these numbers just ask (you too CCP) just ask and I will post the equations. {edit>>> also, I would recomend that the max possible RoF for the SR be reduced to around 510 r/m, in order to discourage the use of mod controllers. The RoF should still be a little high to reward those capable of achieving such an output. Before using numbers learn to use them thanks ! 8 shot/s ? Are you damn crazy ? Without modded controller it's IMPOSSIBLE. And even if it was possible then it will overheat in less than 2sec and explode the weapon. Have you take into account than overheat means death of the user ? And than it's the only rifles that have penality ? Have you take into account than the recoil per shot is HUGE ? Than 20% less damage to armor means 20% less damage to almost EVERYBODY ? You can't just use Alpha damage to compair weapon. You didn't take into account the range of each weapons. To be clear it'sl ike i was saying *RANDOOOOOM NUMBEEEEEEEERS*
Dude, GTFO of here with this stupid ****. Math was my major in college bro.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 12:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:1v1 Rei Shepard RR Vs Rei Shepard ScR, how wins? Come on man use your head. The numbers don't lie.
"So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ?"
What does this even mean? Ok lets do the Rei vs Rei thing... So i did the math with both no mods and 3x damage mods against my typical suit setups No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 1.375 seconds, with needing 11 shots to kill myself, i got 5 more shots left before overheat and i die the RR kills myself in 1.5 seconds, with needing 13 shots to kill myself, i got 29 shots left in the clip with mods and a suit 225 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 0.875 seconds, i got 9 shots more so i can kill myself 1.28 times again right after the RR kills myself in 1 second, i got 34 rounds left so i can kill myself 4.25 additional times This includes the spool time of 0.2 seconds, so basically when i start firing at myself there is a 0.125 second gap where the SCR outperforms the RR in Close Quarter Combat when using Damage Mods but its sustained rate is 3 times less then the Rail Rifle. 0.12 Seconds is very far below Human Average reaction speeds, only if i face myself, ill be able to kill myself faster with the SCR, but if i screw up with the SCR, i could have killed myself 5 times over with the RR before i come out of overheat on the SCR. 0.125 seconds advantage over the RR's no overheat is no advantage and explains allot why i am dying less with the RR in CQC.
I think you need to check your math. I've already posted the acurate numbers (and that is without including spool time and your numbers are way off.
Here are the actual numbers:
Rei Shepard wrote:No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor
(These numbers are calculated with prof 4, since you did not specify what your prof was, ad spool time)
RR: 2.10477242 seconds
ScR: 1.4397096 seconds
These numbers are acurate.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 12:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
{edit^^^ [clarical error] wrote "ad spool time" should be "and spool time".
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 13:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Quote:1v1 Rei Shepard RR Vs Rei Shepard ScR, how wins? Come on man use your head. The numbers don't lie.
"So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ?"
What does this even mean? Ok lets do the Rei vs Rei thing... So i did the math with both no mods and 3x damage mods against my typical suit setups No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 1.375 seconds, with needing 11 shots to kill myself, i got 5 more shots left before overheat and i die the RR kills myself in 1.5 seconds, with needing 13 shots to kill myself, i got 29 shots left in the clip with mods and a suit 225 shields / 522 armor the SCR kills myself in 0.875 seconds, i got 9 shots more so i can kill myself 1.28 times again right after the RR kills myself in 1 second, i got 34 rounds left so i can kill myself 4.25 additional times This includes the spool time of 0.2 seconds, so basically when i start firing at myself there is a 0.125 second gap where the SCR outperforms the RR in Close Quarter Combat when using Damage Mods but its sustained rate is 3 times less then the Rail Rifle. 0.12 Seconds is very far below Human Average reaction speeds, only if i face myself, ill be able to kill myself faster with the SCR, but if i screw up with the SCR, i could have killed myself 5 times over with the RR before i come out of overheat on the SCR. 0.125 seconds advantage over the RR's no overheat is no advantage and explains allot why i am dying less with the RR in CQC. I think you need to check your math. I've already posted the acurate numbers (and that is without including spool time and your numbers are way off. Here are the actual numbers: Rei Shepard wrote:No mods with a suit 443 shields / 522 armor (These numbers are calculated with prof 4, since you did not specify what your prof was, ad spool time) RR: 2.10477242 seconds ScR: 1.4397096 seconds These numbers are acurate. Your math was off since the moment you didnt take into consideration of hitting Shields and Armor, my stats take into account first depleting my own shields and then my armor, seeing i fight myself, its only logical i fight my own suit setup. Your math is never used on the battlefield, so why use it, or base of from it ? What the SCR does to shields then swaps to armor is all of a sudden a huge spike in damage dropoff where the RR is first slower against shields but speeds up and almost overtakes the SCR against armor. Seeing Most people need to Armor Tank to fit 3 damage mods or at least have more armor then shields, the RR would come out ahead if firing at a Gallente Logi by a large margin. Maybe you should do your own math all over again but using the weapons efficiencies against actual suits that run such guns.
My math was calculated considering both weapon's efficacies toward shield/armor: ScR = 120%/80% and RR = 110%/90%.
Now I can post the equations and actually PROVE you wrong. But if that is really necessary then it will have to wait until I get out of the shower plus the time it takes my to formulat the equations into a linear format.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 13:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:
Dude, GTFO of here with this stupid ****. Math was my major in college bro.
I would hope that if you had studied maths to such an extent you would realise how pointless going to 8 decimal places is.
Copy and past from the calculator.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
839
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 13:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? Besides you have your RR stats the way around. it deals 90% to shields and 110% vs armor.
Oops my bad, clarical error. Is was not calculated that way. My numbers are still accurate. Fixing the mistake now.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
840
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 14:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ?
What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. In the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and thoses that are shield tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent.
As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
840
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Posted - 2014.01.08 14:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:I looks like i am insisting, because you do not take into cosideration fits that are 225/522 or the way around, i posted 2 fits a 443/522 and a 225/522, the latter you didnt even go into.
I you wanted the math of that fit as well, all you had to do was ask:
Prot ScR: 1.18371213
Proto RR1.39006191
But, in adition to the ScR still wining it is a moot point when you have guys running around with the exact opposit fitting 500 shield 200 armor. Do you want me to post the TTK for one of those? You won't like it I guarantee.
Also I am procrastinating on posting the math, because it is a lot of work, until you say these word "show me the math. And then I'm going to be like, ahh ****, this is going to suck.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
840
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 14:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Izlare Lenix wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Because this statement does not contradict what is posted on the first post ? What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. In the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and ships tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent. As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word. Brick tanking is a none factor? You just proved you don't know what the hell you are talking about. All heavies are brick tanked. Almost all Gal, and Amarr med frames are brick tanked. Most minny med frames are brick tanked and the few that aren't still have more armor then shields. Caldari med frames are normally closer in balance unless they have stacked damage mods, thus giving them more armor than shields. Even the Gal proto Scott can and often does have 500-600 armor. Get your facts straight. The reduced damage a ScR does against armor suits effects the guns performance. This is one reason I often switch to my smg during a cqc fight as I get the armor bonus and I won't overheat and die.
Dude, learn math, then come back and talk to me. I am quite confident that I have proved my point against you to anybody who is sufficiently educated in mathematics, I imagine that this would include the folks at CCP.
I'm through arguing with you. Grow a brain then come back and talk to me.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
840
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Posted - 2014.01.08 15:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:I looks like i am insisting, because you do not take into cosideration fits that are 225/522 or the way around, i posted 2 fits a 443/522 and a 225/522, the latter you didnt even go into. I you wanted the math of that fit as well, all you had to do was ask: Prot ScR: 1.18371213 Proto RR1.39006191 But, in adition to the ScR still wining it is a moot point when you have guys running around with the exact opposit fitting 500 shield 200 armor (do you know anything about the law of averages and why it is used?). Do you want me to post the TTK for one of those? You won't like it I guarantee. Also I am procrastinating on posting the math, because it is a lot of work, until you say these word "show me the math. And then I'm going to be like, ahh ****, this is going to suck. {edit>>> forgot to as spool time. So RR should be: 1.64006191 Math is still too slow if you consider with skills at 4 you are doing 67.76 damage with an RR, not concerning about Mods or Efficiency its still doing 512 Damage per second or needing 1.63 seconds to kill on a 225/522 suit. So somehow, you are not appling damage mods on there?
Wasn't attempting to apply damage mods because it is another nonfactor. Here I'll demonstrate:
ScR: 0.93658619
RR: 1.34985592
A grand total of 0.04308005 difference between TTK. WOW, we were missing a lot not calculating those three damage mods weren't we
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
840
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Posted - 2014.01.08 15:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:mmmmm Maths, and it's done badly woooo.
Ok this is my area, none of you are gonna like it but I'm gonna lay out all the maths. I'm gonna use the base weapon with no skills. because that's where you start. and I'm gonna show the maths wiiiiii.
Assualt riffle. rate of fire 750 rounds per minute. or 1 round every .08 seconds thats 60/750 seconds/rounds :)
dmg per round 34. so 400 dmg in 11.7647 shots. ok so we multiply that out and we get .9411 seconds to do 400 dmg.
Scrambler rifle. rate of fire 705.88 rounds per minute so that's 60/705.88 we get .085 rounds per second.
dmg per round is 72 so 400 dmg in 5.555 shots. ok so we again multiply that out and we get .4721 seconds to do 400 dmg
Combat riffle. rate of fire 1200 rounds per minute. so we have 60/1200 we get .05 rounds a second.
dmg per round is 32 so 400 dmg in 12.5 rounds. more muliplication gives us .625 seconds.
and finally the Rail rifle. rate of fire 461.54 rounds per minute so 60/461.54 we get .12999 rounds a second.
dmg per round is 55 so 400 rounds in 7.2727 shots more maths means we have a total time of .9447
ok now that you have all of the proper math, feel free to argue about what is and is not over powered.
Te exact math I used calculated to 600 damage instead of 400.
Also I do believe that ther is a unlisted burst delay interval, so I am pretty sure that your vanilla CR stats are off.
{edit>>> also I used a lower RoF for the ScR for reasons stated in the OP.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
840
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Posted - 2014.01.08 15:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:mmmmm Maths, and it's done badly woooo.
Ok this is my area, none of you are gonna like it but I'm gonna lay out all the maths. I'm gonna use the base weapon with no skills. because that's where you start. and I'm gonna show the maths wiiiiii.
Assualt riffle. rate of fire 750 rounds per minute. or 1 round every .08 seconds thats 60/750 seconds/rounds :)
dmg per round 34. so 400 dmg in 11.7647 shots. ok so we multiply that out and we get .9411 seconds to do 400 dmg.
Scrambler rifle. rate of fire 705.88 rounds per minute so that's 60/705.88 we get .085 rounds per second.
dmg per round is 72 so 400 dmg in 5.555 shots. ok so we again multiply that out and we get .4721 seconds to do 400 dmg
Combat riffle. rate of fire 1200 rounds per minute. so we have 60/1200 we get .05 rounds a second.
dmg per round is 32 so 400 dmg in 12.5 rounds. more muliplication gives us .625 seconds.
and finally the Rail rifle. rate of fire 461.54 rounds per minute so 60/461.54 we get .12999 rounds a second.
dmg per round is 55 so 400 rounds in 7.2727 shots more maths means we have a total time of .9447
ok now that you have all of the proper math, feel free to argue about what is and is not over powered. The exact math I used calculated to 600 damage instead of 400. Also I do believe that ther is a unlisted burst delay interval, so I am pretty sure that your vanilla CR stats are off. {edit>>> also I used a lower RoF for the ScR for reasons stated in the OP.
{:)}{3GÇó>
"Well, at least he didn't do that walking against the wind sh!t. I hate that."
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
1063
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Posted - 2014.01.27 10:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:+1 for science, sir. I believe these are reasonable suggestions.
Honestly, DUST's devs should talk to the EVE devs more. It took the EVE guys a while to realize a gun can't both have equal/superior DPS and superior range and be balanced.
Pass that knowledge on to your coworkers, CCP dudes. 1 problem here. EVE weapons are pure stats, there is no human element to them and they are all equally easy to use. Lock on. Click. When a weapon in a shooter is harder to use, it is rewarded with better performance than similar weapons that are easier to use. This has been a staple of shooter gameplay for decades.
I am not saying that it should not be rewarded, but the numbers clearly demonstrate that it is being rewards FAR TO MUCH.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1077
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Posted - 2014.01.31 07:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:i have yet to 'burst' a vanilla CR at full 1200 Rpm.
Try about 3-6 pulls a second. At 1200 theoretical rpm, you can do 20 a second. There is no way a Cr can do 20.
I'll try and run some tests tomorrow, seeing if its even possible to attain 20 bullets a second.
Most likely 15, as 18 means 5 full auto 'bursts' with a 1 shot interval between 3 bursts.
When I tested I was pulling 5 at just over one second timed with a stopwatch.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1077
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Posted - 2014.01.31 08:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Another Matari Terrorist wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:i have yet to 'burst' a vanilla CR at full 1200 Rpm.
Try about 3-6 pulls a second. At 1200 theoretical rpm, you can do 20 a second. There is no way a Cr can do 20.
I'll try and run some tests tomorrow, seeing if its even possible to attain 20 bullets a second.
Most likely 15, as 18 means 5 full auto 'bursts' with a 1 shot interval between 3 bursts. That's only 400 pulls per minute; I can max out my KLO, so I'm reasonably confident I could max out the CR without an issue.
Lolwut?
I can max out my Visiam (500 r/m). It's rare but it happens. You can't max out a KLO at 444? I max my TT-3 all the time it's quite annoying actually. I can't even use a KLO for how slow it is.
{edit>>> oops, my bad. Could have swore you said can't not can.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1079
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Posted - 2014.01.31 08:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Let's not forget also that even if you were to max out the Cr...
You can't max out the CR. There is definitely some kind of refire delay interval. Five burst a second only works ot 300 trigger plus a minute.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1079
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Posted - 2014.01.31 09:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Stealth ScR nerf thread eh?
It's not a nerf thread. I have simply done the math looking for anomalies, have found some and reported on them.
"So I am sure it has been mentioned, but the combat rifle does -á27% more damage per trigger squeeze. (72 dmg for ScR versus 96 damage for CR)"
What does that mater when the trigger on a CR can only be pulled at most 5 times a second, where as, the ScR can be pulled in excess of 8 times per minute?
"The combat rifle does 102.5% normalized damage (everyone else does 100% normalized)"
This was already accounted for in my initial analysis found in my OP.
"The combat rifle has 30+% more sustainable DPS than any other wepaon."
Exactly what numbers are you basing this on?-á
Std AR damage per mag: 2,040
Std RR damage per mag: 2,310
Std CR damage per mag: 1,728
"The sustainable DPS of the ScR is near the bottom of all rifles (remember that pesky overheat? that means 16 shots before overheat or 9 shots with 1 overheated shot)"
I just recently tested this, it is 19 rounds before over heat, with a damage output of 1,425 at the std level unmoded.
"The ScR can (and does) kill the user of the weapon (through overheating damage)."
This does not excuse the gross imbalance in TTK/payload delivery between the ScR and the other rifles.
"So that makes it pretty clear that the CR is the OP rifle."
Now, explain to me how that works again, given that I have just countered all your points, and clearly demonstrated the gross imbalance in TTK between these weapons in my OP.
"Then again, all of the rifles do way too much damage, and there is not reason why a rifle with double the range (RR) should do anywhere near the same amount of damage the AR does."
And the RR doesn't, as can clearly be seen with the number given in my OP.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 09:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Let's not forget also that even if you were to max out the Cr... You can't max out the CR. There is definitely some kind of refire delay interval. Five burst a second only works ot 300 trigger plus a minute. WHAT??.... I can quite easily empty the entire clip in just under 3 seconds. 54/18 = 3, meaning that I am firing at very very close to the max fire rate of 6.66 trigger pulls per second. (I average 6) This also means that I can put out about 1,000 DPS for 3 seconds and then reload and do it again, for as long as I ave nano hives. For the cheap seats, this works out to about 600 DPS sustained DPS. I can do 2,700 over a period of 9 seconds with the ScR (you know, that pesky 5 second seize where I am completely defenseless). This works out to a sustained DPS of 300. *note, I do not include reload times here. Face it , CR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all other rifles. To put it another way, proof or STFU. I am calling you out for a video of this trigger pull clipping. The burdern of proof is on you.
Can I see the timed footage (with a stop watch or what have you). Because I actually have timed it with a stop watch. So I'm going to have to call bull**** here.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 09:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ok, just retimed it again and the vanilla CR come out to 5 bursts in 1.1 seconds.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 10:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Let's not forget also that even if you were to max out the Cr... You can't max out the CR. There is definitely some kind of refire delay interval. Five burst a second only works ot 300 trigger plus a minute. WHAT??.... I can quite easily empty the entire clip in just under 3 seconds. 54/18 = 3, meaning that I am firing at very very close to the max fire rate of 6.66 trigger pulls per second. (I average 6) This also means that I can put out about 1,000 DPS for 3 seconds and then reload and do it again, for as long as I ave nano hives. For the cheap seats, this works out to about 600 DPS sustained DPS. I can do 2,700 over a period of 9 seconds with the ScR (you know, that pesky 5 second seize where I am completely defenseless). This works out to a sustained DPS of 300. *note, I do not include reload times here. Face it , CR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all other rifles. To put it another way, proof or STFU. I am calling you out for a video of this trigger pull clipping. The burdern of proof is on you. Can I see the timed (with a stop watch or what have you). Because I actually have timed it with a stop watch. So I'm going to have to call bull**** here. See that is the wonderful thing, you have made the assertion that it is impossible to max out the DPS of the CR, you have made that claim. There is absolutely NO evidence to point to the clipping of trigger pulls. There has been none for the Scrambler pistol, the TAC AR, or the SCR (not like you could without a turbo controller on the SCR.). You are making a claim that is unique among dust 514, and therefor it is YOU who have to back up your claim. The math is quite simple, 1200/3=400 RPM. This means if you pull the trigger UNDER 6.66 times a second then it should be IMPOSSIBLE to clip anyway. my assertion is that I can pull the trigger around 6 times a second, as I can reliably prove here. ( I score 5.9-6.1 consistently) This means at base, a SCR does 432 DPS for me and it overheats after 16 shots (unless I spend another 2.5 mil sp on amarr assault, and only use that one suit, then it is 25 shots.) This means that I can do 432 DPS per second for between 3 and 4 seconds before I AM HELPLESS FOR 5 SECONDS. Using the base CR, I can do 552 DPS without overheat and damaging myself, for 3 seconds. Not only that, the CR has an average of 102.5% dmg, rather than the 100% of the ScR, making that 565 DPS, or to put it another way, it does 31% more damage. Proof or STFU. CR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ScR.
Dude pay really close attentetion, because it frustrates me to unnecessarily have to repeat myself over and over again.
I just timed how many burst the CR can put out in a second with a stop watch. It's 5 in 1.1 seconds. I don't have to prove anything. If someone doesn't believe me then they can get a stop watch and a friend and time themselves and find out that I was telling the truth. It's not hard to do.
And I don't care how fast you can pull a trigger, your not going to be able to fire more bursts in a set amount of time the the games programming will alow you to. The is a reason why the assault variant, which is fully auto at 1200 r/m, only does 22 damage, while the burst does 32. There is a refire delay before each consecutively fired burst.
Now stop talking out you @$$ your wasting my time.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 10:24:00 -
[32] - Quote
I'm through arguing with you bro. I have made my case quite clearly. And I am quite certain that any one with half a brain can see exactly what I am saying and the truth of it.
Lol, sustainable DPS.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 10:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
I just did another test on emptying a full mag.
It takes 4.1 seconds to empty a mag.
At 18 bursts per mag that comes out to 0.22777778 seconds per burst. Or, 1.13888889 seconds for five burst.
Now I don't have the ability to capture video or believe me I would, just to cram it down this @$$holes throat, but anyone can easily do this test, and to anyone who can post video of them doing this test I welcome it.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 10:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
People emptying the CR in 3 seconds or less
Here
I watch this whole video, and not once did it show somonw time ing how long it takes to empty a clip. And you want to go around calling me a liar. Pfft
Click per second calculator
here
Clicks per second doesn't matter if there is a refire delay, you dumb ****.
Hope your enjoying making yourself look like a complete @$$.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 10:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:I just did another test on emptying a full mag.
It takes 4.1 seconds to empty a mag.
At 18 bursts per mag that comes out to 0.22777778 seconds per burst. Or, 1.13888889 seconds for five burst.
Now I don't have the ability to capture video or believe me I would, just to cram it down this @$$holes throat, but anyone can easily do this test, and to anyone who can post video of them doing this test I welcome it. Ok so tomorrow when I post a video, and it shows that you are completely and utterly full of ****, you are going to STFU up? I just capture some but I still need to uplaod them. Just FYI, I also captured a scrambler, and I can get 15 rounds before overheat. So when I upload these videos, are you going to STFU?
Give it your best shot.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:ok fine, since you are continuing to be a complete and utter jackass about this, I will make you a wager.
IF I show you a video of emptying the magazine in under 4 seconds, you give me 250 mil isk
IF I do not, I give you 250 mil isk.
Or if you are broke, how about posting privledges. If I post the aforementioned video, you will never post on these forums again, and if I fail to, I will never post again.
Come on *******, put you money where your mouth is.
What kind of a stupid child are you. *shakes his head* Moron.
Il post my own in depth video tomorrow how about that? Humm?
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:19:00 -
[37] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:ok fine, since you are continuing to be a complete and utter jackass about this, I will make you a wager.
IF I show you a video of emptying the magazine in under 4 seconds, you give me 250 mil isk
IF I do not, I give you 250 mil isk.
Or if you are broke, how about posting privledges. If I post the aforementioned video, you will never post on these forums again, and if I fail to, I will never post again.
Come on *******, put you money where your mouth is. What kind of a stupid child are you. *shakes his head* Moron. Not confident enough to bet?
What and have you speed up the frames per second in an attempt to cheat no thanx. I'll post my own video. You see ratamaqu doc can do some really cool stuff with his video capture. Screen in screen you'll actually be able to see him pulling the DS3 trigger while we time how long it takes to empty a clip.
Like this video he made to prove that he doesn't use a moded controller. I'll upload the video tomorrow, well see how well you like me then.
Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ty2WZ82k8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1084
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:ok fine, since you are continuing to be a complete and utter jackass about this, I will make you a wager.
IF I show you a video of emptying the magazine in under 4 seconds, you give me 250 mil isk
IF I do not, I give you 250 mil isk.
Or if you are broke, how about posting privledges. If I post the aforementioned video, you will never post on these forums again, and if I fail to, I will never post again.
Come on *******, put you money where your mouth is. What kind of a stupid child are you. *shakes his head* Moron. Not confident enough to bet? What and have you speed up the frames per second in an attempt to cheat no thanx. I'll post my own video. You see ratamaqu doc can do some really cool stuff with his video capture. Screen in screen you'll actually be able to see him pulling the DS3 trigger while we time how long it takes to empty a clip. Like this video he made to prove that he doesn't use a moded controller. I'll upload the video tomorrow, well see how well you like me then. Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0ty2WZ82k8&feature=youtube_gdata_player Your buddy can shoot very quickly, he overheated the ScR in 11 shots at one point. He should easily be able to max out the CR. But of course that won't happen right? Stop being a ***** and bet me. Come on, you are SO confident, even though all of the math says you are wrong, and of course this trigger clipping has never been claimed by anyone else, let alone proven. But none of that matters right? Stop being a ***** and put your money where your mouth is. Come on if you are so confident this should be free isk.
Like I said i have tested it my self, but I am a science minded person (always get confirmation), and while I am quite certain that ratamaqu's results will be similar to my own. It is not some thing I would bet on. I am an honest person. I will post the video as soon as I can have him make it. And we will SEE what is what.
I don't need to bet you like some ridiculous child trying to prove something. Your shame when I post it will be quite sufficient for me.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1085
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:So OP, no comment about my post on page 4?
you know, adresing the actual issue, not merely letting the numbers speak?
Sorry dude, not trying to be rude but I really don't see anything worth replying to in your post. Probably why I didn't reply to it when I first read it.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1090
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Posted - 2014.01.31 11:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Rabble rabble rabble. The SCR touched me in a no no square. Rabble rabble rabble. Butthurt. Rabble rabble rabble. Trying to call the SCR op.
Lol, butthurt.
All I did was mathematically demonstrate an imbalance where I found it.
Sound to me like you're the one who is butthurt.
Maww, what's wong, you fraid the gonna take away your church. Poor baby.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1090
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
Also this has been stated before (page one I think) but I am proficiency 4 with the scrambler rifle.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1090
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Rabble rabble rabble. The SCR touched me in a no no square. Rabble rabble rabble. Butthurt. Rabble rabble rabble. Trying to call the SCR op. Lol, butthurt. All I did was mathematically demonstrate an imbalance where I found it. Sound to me like you're the one who is butthert. Maww, what's wong, you fraid the gonna take away your church. Poor baby. Please stop saying that, you didn't prove anything other than you barely understand mathematics. CR does way more damage than any other rifle (sans turbo) CR has a better damage profile than any other rifle CR is the easiiest to fit rifle CR has decent range (not the lowest by any means) CR does 30% more damage per trigger pull than the SCR. CR doesn't overheat. Finally, we have proven anyone who compares the SCR with another rifle using damage per clip is quite simply mentally handicapped.
Yap, just keep on flapping those lips. I got your number. Just wait for it.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1090
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Refresh my memory... what drawbacks does the CR have again? why don't you actually try reading the OP dip****
Man I'm tired of your stupid bull**** already. You are a complete @$$.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1091
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
The OP has been edited.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1091
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:Just stop feeding the troll everyone, eventually it'll die.
Yah, who exactly are the trolls again?
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1092
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Posted - 2014.01.31 12:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:INb4everyAmarrplayersaysDontTouchMyScrambler!
Oh wait.
Yah, way to late for that one.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1093
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Posted - 2014.01.31 13:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Of course this entire thread is flawed. The OP just picks weapons randomly to compare (the RR, the ScR, the AR, and the assault CR?? already off to a bad start.) Then it picks a randomly chosen trigger squeeze parameter to judge the SCR with, then it ignores overheating, and of course complete ignores ranges and fittings.
It is not possible to calculate the time it takes to output 600 damage with a vanilla CR without knowing the refire delay interval. One thing that do know for sure, is that there is one, because if there wasn't and you where able to achieve the 1200 RoF. then the damage for the Vanilla CR would be around 23.2 (like the ACR) not 35.2. This is why there is such a difference in damage output between the two variants.
And my RoF was not "randomly chosen". It was very specifically chosen, and the reason why it was chosen was thoroughly explained.
As well, all weapons were considered to be functioning within their optimal, so range was not a factor. But if you want to talk about range the ScR has the second longest range of the four. 
Also overheat was not a factor, because the ScR will not overheat before it outputs 600 damage. Overheating at 19 rounds (tested and will hopefully be demonstrated tomorrow) is no excuse to give the ScR a > .3 second drop on payload delivery over every other rifle.
How hard is this stuff to comprehend? Apparently really difficult.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1093
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
Just did the math for payload delivery on the vanilla CR, using the time to fire through a complete mag, that I used a stop watch to get just a little while ago (4.1 seconds).
It will deliver 600 damage in 1.26183712 seconds.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1093
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
Hoover Damn wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Blah blah blah, math math math, oh wait, the SCR is weak against armor - only 80% effective -did you take that into account with your mathematics there chief? He didn't take into account -anything- other than what he was focusing on. Haters Gona hate. I took into account everything that was necessary. You can prove me wrong by presenting relevant factors that Were not in the OP. You mean like assuming that every scrambler rifle is fired by a champion revolver quickshooter?
No because the RoF I used was significantly lower than his. His was around 510 I used 480.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1093
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Posted - 2014.01.31 14:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:People emptying the CR in 3 seconds or less Here unfortunately this was about 5 seconds. using watches and counting is too hard for you and you want to discuss and analyze numbers? Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I activate my tunnelvision scrub mode because I need to defend my crutch this guy never used the CR and has zero credibility. he does not even know that the CR has a very short delay between each burst. first, pressing the button as fast as possible does nothing because you cant fire another burst when the weapon is still firing. second, anyone that uses the CR most likely already realized that there is a very short delay between each burst and if you tap your button fast & uncontrollable you will hit the exact moment where the delay kicks in and you will in the end fire slower because your next button press happens some ms later. if you want to max out CR dps, you need to tap your fire button in the perfect rythm.
Thank you. At least somebody is paying attention.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1134
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Posted - 2014.02.07 13:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:Blah blah blah, math math math, oh wait, the SCR is weak against armor - only 80% effective -did you take that into account with your mathematics there chief? He didn't take into account -anything- other than what he was focusing on. Haters Gona hate. I took into account everything that was necessary. You can prove me wrong by presenting relevant factors that Were not in the OP. You forgot so many factor.... Okay ONE : - SCR and AR have 10% penality on Armor. Which means it's (almost) a 10% permanent nerf to all ennemies. -CR and RR have 10% BONUS which means it's (almost) a free complex damager against EVERYBODY. TWO : - SCR takes 20PG/92CPU it's 1/5 of a Proto Suit. => No way to reduce it exept with weaponery skills bringing it to 16PG. -CR only takes 8 PG/80cpu which is..NOTHING and the CPU cost can be highly reduced by 3/4 skills cutting it by half. -RR takes 17PG and 84CPU same than SCR. -AR takes 13PG/90CPU pretty balanced. THREE : Overheat so your "maths" is wrong actually you CANT achieve a high damage output without being stuck for 6 sec. It needs accuracy because if you miss some bullet you're DEAD because you can't reach the ennemy ehp without overheat. FOUR : 8 shots per second is actually impossible without missing at least 2-3 shots. And even without missing 8shots/s is impossible or your "sec" is more 3/4sec..... FIVE : You didn't take into account accuracy/spread and Headshot factor. When a CR makes a headshot it's actually 3 headshot. ACR is even more. Same for AR because of the high RoF. When a SCR deals a Headshot it's only one and the SCR have more recoil than other weapon to dealing an another headshot will be hard if the target is not lethargic. etcetc.....
"- SCR and AR have 10% penality on Armor. Which means it's (almost) a 10% permanent nerf to all ennemies.
-CR and RR have 10% BONUS which means it's (almost) a free complex damager against EVERYBODY."
Did make it past that, since it is very obvious that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Also, if you can't understand the relevance of the factors that were and were not taken into account, I cannot help you. Try reading the whole thread or at the very top of this page there was an excellent post concerning this.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness
SoulWing Alliance
1197
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Posted - 2014.02.12 14:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Avinash Decker wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:Just did the math for payload delivery on the vanilla CR, using the time to fire through a complete mag, that I used a stop watch to get just a little while ago (4.1 seconds).
It will deliver 600 damage in 1.26183712 seconds. Do you know the average player total health ? And what is it for 300, 400 , 500 , etc health?
Such calculations are quite simple to make:
500/600 = 5/6 of 1.26183712
400/600 = 2/3 of 1.26183712
300/600 = 1/2 of 1.26183712
200/600 = 1/3 of 1.26183712
I'll leave the rest up to you. You do know how calculate fractions right. If your used to the metric system or something just let me know and I'll work it out for you.
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