The following numbers represent how long it takes each weapon to output 600 HP damage on a level field (no efficacy bonuses) with the exception of the ACR.

ACR 1.36363636 seconds (need more info on the vanilla CR in order to calculat - specifically "burst delay interval) as well with the projectile type weapons this number will be further reduced by 5% due to it being the only weapon type with an unbalanced damage efficacy swing (i.e. 95%/110%). This number then works out to-á1.29545454

AR-á1.28342246 seconds

RR 1.2892519-á

The SR is a bit tricky as it is a simi-auto weapon. Many sources would say that 660 r/m is pushing the limit of human capability, and that while griping a gun handle (equivalent DS3 grip) achievable RoF is around 480.

This is a video of a world record being set for revolver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcStqGyXzbY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

If you subtract the time it took him to reload, the RoF works out to around 8 trigger pulls a second. This will work out to around 480 r/m. So that is the RoF we will use.

SR:-á0.9469697 seconds

So as you can see there is a problem. There is one weapon that is far superior to all of the others: the scrambler rifle, by an obscenely large margin. I feel like this can be easily felt in the field.

Convolution: the SR needs to have its damage per shot reduced in order to to bring it in line with the other weapons.

Also

The difference between the payload output of the AR and CR/RR is very-ánegligible.-áIf the AR is supposed to be the king of CQC then I would recommend increasing the AR's RoF to around 800 r/m.

At 800 r/m the would bring the AR's payload delivery to-á1.20320856 thus adequately making up for what it looses in range.

This is for everyone's consideration, but I hope that CCP will pay particular close attention to this thread.

If anyone is interested in knowing the math I used to calculate these numbers just ask (you too CCP) just ask and I will post the equations.

The proto ScR is capable of outputting 1,742.3094 damage before overheat (with pro 5 and two damage mods; a common enough thing). So I think that that qualifies it to be classed a weapon capable of taking on multiple targets simultaneously. And with it having the lowest TTK out of all the rifles by an extreme margin, I would say that my classing it as imbalanced/OP is acurate.

*Shakes his head* who do you guys think you are trying to fool here? I use th damned thing. I am prof 4 with it.

You're missing the entire point here. In 1v1 combat their is no concivable way to compete with this weapon. How in the hell is that balance in anyway at all?

1v1 Rei Shepard RR Vs Rei Shepard ScR, how wins? Come on man use your head. The numbers don't lie.

"So its fine that everything else is being balanced around this "TeamPlay" thing but the SCR needs to be balanced around solo 1 vs 1 ?"

What does this even mean?

I think you need to check your math. I've already posted the acurate numbers (and that is without including spool time and your numbers are way off.

Here are the actual numbers:



(These numbers are calculated with prof 4, since you did not specify what your prof was, ad spool time)

RR: 2.10477242 seconds

ScR: 1.4397096 seconds

These numbers are acurate.

My math was calculated considering both weapon's efficacies toward shield/armor: ScR = 120%/80% and RR = 110%/90%.

Now I can post the equations and actually PROVE you wrong. But if that is really necessary then it will have to wait until I get out of the shower plus the time it takes my to formulat the equations into a linear format.

The following numbers represent how long it takes each weapon to output 600 HP damage on a level field (no efficacy bonuses) with the exception of the ACR.

What do you mean by this? Did you mean "does contradict" instead of "does not contradict". Not that the statement in question actually contradicts the math used in the OP. in the OP, that weapon efficacy was not being factored, except in the case of the ACR, was stated. The reason why it was not factored is because, on average it is a nonfactor. The number of people armor tanking and ships tanking sould be roughly equivalent. And brick tanking, like the fit you pasted is, is a non factor as well, since the difference in the amount of armor vs shield is roughly equivalent.

As I've said my math is accurate and I can prove this to you if you insist. Just say the word.

You tell him Rei.

I think the biggest point OP is missing is when you can only fire 16 shoots before overheating the ScR, every damn shoot must hit your target. Even missing 2 shoots can be 200+ damage not applied to your target.

While automatic weapons have a lot more margin for error when baddies are praying and spraying with them.
The ScRs high alpha damage does reward players with good aim. But the heat buildup prevents prolonged engagements and punishes noobs that don't know how to handle the ScR.

Also there is always going to be one weapon that is king at something. The mechanics of the ScR allow it to be very, very good at 1 v 1, ok at 1 v 2, and your probably a dead man at 1 v 3. Especially with all the armor suits running around.

If I know I will engage in a lot of cqc, I prefer the RS90 over my CRW as it doesn't overheat and kills almost as fast.

Brick tanking is a none factor? You just proved you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

All heavies are brick tanked. Almost all Gal, and Amarr med frames are brick tanked. Most minny med frames are brick tanked and the few that aren't still have more armor then shields. Caldari med frames are normally closer in balance unless they have stacked damage mods, thus giving them more armor than shields. Even the Gal proto Scott can and often does have 500-600 armor.

Get your facts straight. The reduced damage a ScR does against armor suits effects the guns performance. This is one reason I often switch to my smg during a cqc fight as I get the armor bonus and I won't overheat and die.

I you wanted the math of that fit as well, all you had to do was ask:


Prot ScR: 1.18371213

Proto RR1.39006191

But, in adition to the ScR still wining it is a moot point when you have guys running around with the exact opposit fitting 500 shield 200 armor (do you know anything about the law of averages and why it is used?). Do you want me to post the TTK for one of those? You won't like it I guarantee.

Also I am procrastinating on posting the math, because it is a lot of work, until you say these word "show me the math. And then I'm going to be like, ahh ****, this is going to suck.

{edit>>> forgot to as spool time. So RR should be:

1.64006191

mmmmm Maths, and it's done badly woooo.

Ok this is my area, none of you are gonna like it but I'm gonna lay out all the maths. I'm gonna use the base weapon with no skills. because that's where you start. and I'm gonna show the maths wiiiiii.

Assualt riffle. rate of fire 750 rounds per minute. or 1 round every .08 seconds thats 60/750 seconds/rounds :)
dmg per round 34. so 400 dmg in 11.7647 shots. ok so we multiply that out and we get .9411 seconds to do 400 dmg.

Scrambler rifle. rate of fire 705.88 rounds per minute so that's 60/705.88 we get .085 rounds per second.
dmg per round is 72 so 400 dmg in 5.555 shots. ok so we again multiply that out and we get .4721 seconds to do 400 dmg

Combat riffle. rate of fire 1200 rounds per minute. so we have 60/1200 we get .05 rounds a second.
dmg per round is 32 so 400 dmg in 12.5 rounds. more muliplication gives us .625 seconds.

and finally the Rail rifle. rate of fire 461.54 rounds per minute so 60/461.54 we get .12999 rounds a second.
dmg per round is 55 so 400 rounds in 7.2727 shots more maths means we have a total time of .9447

ok now that you have all of the proper math, feel free to argue about what is and is not over powered.

Negative sir, I am just using the values provided by CCP in the game client. they are avalible on the show info screen under the attributes tab.

you mean some one that knows how to do maths, does them with the proper numbers as supplied by the database? Yes, yes I am. Did you not read my signature?