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Sgt Buttscratch 1251	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:37:00 - [1] - Quote So right now people having a hissy fit about tanks, mainly MLT but in general tanks. People want a fix to tank spam, MLT tanks, rail tanks. Here's my take on it all. @Infantry Infantry were spoiled for the longest time, I used to run a fast resist build maddy/vayu pre 1.7, If a wyriwammakomi swarmer was at say 350m from my tank, he could lock onto me, I would get NO warning, missiles were INVISIBLE and before, the rate at which they were fired meant that by time the 1st volley, hit, the 2nd volley was mere sconds away with a 3 launching. Activate hardeners and rep, reps took 3 seconds to activate meaning that unless I got my ass to cover which was not an obvious thing considering I could not see where he soht from, the 3rd volley would POP my tank. So 10million SP tank, 700,000-3,000,000 ISK tank insta gonned by someone with a weapon that cost 50k and 1/10th the SP. Not due to skill or lack of skill of tanker..just because. CCP just stopped this, now AV infantry have decided that rather than assess the manner in which a tank is strong/weak they'd sooner just not try and forum cry. AV is not underpowered, the player base' willpower is. Their mothod's of AV use is old, outdated and set to disappoint. Understanding how tanks rep, resist, manouver and behave is the start of tank killing, ** your weapons. LEARN. -Resists are active for periods, and on cooldown after that. Learn to trick tankers into activating hardeners, once they are acivated, don't attack. Plan their escape route with 1 or 2 others(inclduing a death rail tank helps), Get it right tanks disappear. -Reps: On armor tanks they have a weak but constant stream of reps, that when coupled with hardeners will laugh off a lot off damage, further more reason to time your attacks right. Shied tanks have a native rep, but also a heavy boost that will replinish a good amount instantly. key here is to trick them into using the reps, before you unleash a real attack, use flux nades to assist swarmers, but the ideal AV for shield tanks is forge gun or rail tanks. -Turrets *** hurt, stop feeding them, understand their range, and their range of motion(speed they turn, and where they can turn) for the most it's easier to hide, that to try just get across the road hoping he dooesn't you. Make sure when your at out post where you can be where a tank can't see. -Defeat or defend? You need to make a fast assessment on whether or not a tank needs to be destroyed or just pushed back, the embedded pre 1.7 mentality only sees killing a tank as good enough, with the strength of the current tank you need to be happy just to stop the tank from getting to ceratin area's. -More tankers now than ever What does this mean? Basically if you remember a tanker by name from pre 1.7, he is for the most going to be a good tanker. He drove tanks in the dark ages, his understanding of survivability is an evil combo with the new tanks. The rest, for the most are scrubs, people who need to be in that tank, but are usually with lack of true tank knowledge, they wont be checking their overhead to observe other tanks, they wont plan great escapes before an escape is ever needed, bull head numbskulls. FREE WP. Overall:** It's time to smarten up, bite the bullet and adjust to the game your playing, tanks aren't OP and AV isn't nerfed to death, YOU were nerfed by the dumbfire AV "it's xmas everyday" bullshit that CCP let you have for a good amount of time. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Sgt Buttscratch 1251	Posted - 2014.01.06 16:37:00 - [2] - Quote ---Reserved for @Vehicles-- I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 183	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:11:00 - [3] - Quote While I think AV needs a bit of a buff -- and ambush is a bit out of whack with the dominance of armor -- I do like seeing the diversity (i.e. more tanks) on the playing field.
daishi mk03 BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 547	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:29:00 - [4] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: [...] CCP just stopped this, now AV infantry have decided that rather than assess the manner in which a tank is strong/weak they'd sooner just not try and forum cry. AV is not underpowered, the player base' willpower is. Their mothod's of AV use is old, outdated and set to disappoint. Understanding how tanks rep, resist, manouver and behave is the start of tank killing, **** your weapons. LEARN. [...] To be honest, I haven't seen AV cry that hard on forums after the patch. Most of them just stopped using the AV weapons and rather bring out a double dmg mod rail sica, which truly does wonders. If it works, why not? On the other hand, tankers again cry like hell about getting killed by MLT tanks (lol wtf?). The same you do later in your post. So no, nothing changed. To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin. The Scriptures,Book of Missions
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 896	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:45:00 - [5] - Quote The inherent problem is that tankers have a near no-risk gameplay style. They cry if they die more than once every six matches, because dying in a match for them is unusual. That's a problem in a first-person shooter. Even if someone does attack their tank, three-second recalls mean they still lose nothing. They're practically invulnerable to the rest of the players on the map, and the few players fit to remove them are far in-between and easily avoidable. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2153	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:52:00 - [6] - Quote Spot on about AV using outdated tactics As for rail its what its made for and currently can shoot from redline to redline Intelligence is OP
Sgt Buttscratch 1253	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:52:00 - [7] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: ....about getting killed by MLT tanks (lol wtf?). The same you do later in your post. wut? lool. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9686	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:53:00 - [8] - Quote ITT: Face + Palm Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Sgt Buttscratch 1253	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:54:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The inherent problem is that tankers have a near no-risk gameplay style. They cry if they die more than once every six matches, because dying in a match for them is unusual. That's a problem in a first-person shooter. Even if someone does attack their tank, three-second recalls mean they still lose nothing. They're practically invulnerable to the rest of the players on the map, and the few players fit to remove them are far in-between and easily avoidable. This isn't the tankers fault, the players have chose to become few and far between, pre 1.7 every mother ****** seemed to have at least ADV AV.. As I said they'll lose isk, if you go at them right. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Sgt Buttscratch 1253	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:56:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ITT: Face + Palm explain? or you just hiding no response behind e-lingo..... lol Matt Damon that **** up I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans

Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 896	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:06:00 - [11] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: This isn't the tankers fault, the players have chose to become few and far between, pre 1.7 every mother ****** seemed to have at least ADV AV.. As I said they'll lose isk, if you go at them right. My proto swarms are a very pretty flare gun that do no damage. Which is why I stopped spawning with it. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9687	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:16:00 - [12] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: ITT: Face + Palm explain? or you just hiding no response behind e-lingo..... lol Matt Damon that **** up I just can't be bothered to tackle that mess right now Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Sgt Buttscratch 1254	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:20:00 - [13] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: This isn't the tankers fault, the players have chose to become few and far between, pre 1.7 every mother ****** seemed to have at least ADV AV.. As I said they'll lose isk, if you go at them right. My proto swarms are a very pretty flare gun that do no damage. Which is why I stopped spawning with it. I've killed tanks with my ADV swarms... All I did was get a freind to help jump him when he didn't want to be attacked. Thats what I'm saying in the OP. You need to develope new tactics. With your mentality you should withdraw from wanting in the CPM. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 898	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:27:00 - [14] - Quote There's an inherent problem with a tank requiring multiple players to kill it. It's a math problem. In a game where you have sixteen versus sixteen players, each player effectively competes with approximately one other player. (Noting that some players are better, and some are worse, so this varies a bit.) As it takes multiple players to kill one tanker, unless the enemy team also has tanks, the tank effectively unbalances the match size, because a tank is "worth" two to four players, even if it is only piloted by a single player. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3084	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:27:00 - [15] - Quote AV has "adapted." By using Damage Modded Sicas. /thread Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 900	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:29:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: AV has "adapted." By using Damage Modded Sicas. /thread Realistically, we're better off just avoiding tanks than investing in tanks ourselves to kill them. I mean, we've done Bridge Map where the red team has two tanks parked on the bridge, but we still have the point, cuz neither coward can trouble himself to actually go hack the point. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3084	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:36:00 - [17] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Atiim wrote: AV has "adapted." By using Damage Modded Sicas. /thread Realistically, we're better off just avoiding tanks than investing in tanks ourselves to kill them. I mean, we've done Bridge Map where the red team has two tanks parked on the bridge, but we still have the point, cuz neither coward can trouble himself to actually go hack the point. Yes, and this strategy does work well in Planetary Conquest where you have about 450 clones to bring with you. But in Factional Warfare and Instant Battles, you only have a limited amount of clones (150 in skirmish/domination, and 50-80 in Ambush/OMS). In these battles a tank can easily "clone" the other team. Unless of course, you have a map that is based in a city or complex. Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Valmorgan Aubaris Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services ACME Holding Conglomerate 111	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:37:00 - [18] - Quote I disagree, there are simply too many tank on the average battlefield rght now. They should only be allowed when earned just like WP are for orbitals. That way it is limited to one tank per aquad and the aquad has incentive to coexist with the tank instead of two completely different entities working against each other, even when on the same side. EVE alliance seeks mercs, join Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services today! Let's gank Scotty.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 493	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:45:00 - [19] - Quote I ran a set of Wyrrkomi state swarms, and triple damage mods, no proficency. I ran BEHIND a madrugar, threw a flux, fired the first clip, reloaded got off 2 shots, and he was at 54 armor. Then a rail rifle scrapped me. I still had 1 shot left, and i was breaking through resists too. If a no-proficiency swarmer like me can get -that- close to killing a tank WITH RESISTS UP, how come all you PROTO PROF V QUADRUPLE DAMAGE MOD assholes can't kill one? Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 203	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:45:00 - [20] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: This isn't the tankers fault, the players have chose to become few and far between, pre 1.7 every mother **** seemed to have at least ADV AV.. As I said they'll lose isk, if you go at them right. My proto swarms are a very pretty flare gun that do no damage. Which is why I stopped spawning with it. I've killed tanks with my ADV swarms... All I did was get a freind to help jump him when he didn't want to be attacked. Thats what I'm saying in the OP. You need to develope new tactics. With your mentality you should withdraw from wanting in the CPM. Why should we AV'ers learn new "tactics" when your doing your old tactics. Run into a group of players and blast them all. Then run away when you have 10 seconds left on your hardners? Tanks SHOULDNT** be allowed to run into a group of players for over 30 seconds with AV going at it. Thats if they can get out any AV shot with the other sides INF shooting at the AV'ers. Tankers wanted GOD MODE. They got it. Enjoy the month while you can. No matter how much you say Tankers with blasters aren't OP they really are. Look at all the tankers KDR now a days. Besides tankers brought this out on them selfs. Tankers in uprising 1.1- 1.4 were mean killers. Then players got sick of it and went AV. Pro AV SHOULD be > Then STD tank's your using. Blame CCP for not giving you all your tanks. Keep in mind that there are 3-8 tanks on an ambush map every game. AV cant kill them fast enough do to it taking 3 AV per tank. That leaves the other side to kill the AV due to blueberrys being Rtards. In the end. Your tanks with blasters are OP. Get over it. You'll be nerfed or av will be buffed. Samething with CB and RR. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó

Sgt Buttscratch 1256	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:48:00 - [21] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: So you didn't kill him with advanced swarms. You needed a friend's help to kill him with advanced swarms. That's a large difference. There's an inherent problem with a tank requiring multiple players to kill it. It's a math problem. In a game where you have sixteen versus sixteen players, each player effectively competes with approximately one other player. (Noting that some players are better, and some are worse, so this varies a bit.) As it takes multiple players to kill one tanker, unless the enemy team also has tanks, the tank effectively unbalances the match size, because a tank is "worth" two to four players, even if it is only piloted by a single player. The fact that I think tanks should be nerfed, and you don't, probably means you wouldn't vote for me, but that really isn't a good reason for me not to run. Yes I did, we did. I got got 150 points for the madrugar and 50 for the player inside. We were close to the objective that we were guarding, and It wasn't stolen. So 2 players versus 1 tank, did not cause any issues in the 16v16 match up. As i said, its about assessing situations, does tank need to go? can he just be ignored? can he be pushed away? You don't need 4 players. As a counter arguement to displacing the players in 16v16, for every 1 guy in a tank, thats one less hacking objectives, one less guy sniping, dropping uplinks etc. Even though you can consider him as "worth" two to four players, in the same sentiment he can be worthless to his team. offering nothing than chasing other tanks around. Both teams can use tanks, both can use AV. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3085	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:02:00 - [22] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: -Resists are active for periods, and on cooldown after that. Learn to trick tankers into activating hardeners, once they are activated, don't attack. Plan their escape route with 1 or 2 others(including a death rail tank helps), Get it right tanks disappear. I think you forgot to mention how a tanker can cycle 2-3 hardeners, as well as re-call their vehicle before the hardener cooldown expires, leading to a theoretical invulnerability. If you use a tank to kill a tank, that's not infantry or Infantry AV. The part in parentheses either needs to be moved to the other part of this thread, or removed; as it is not credible. Sgt Buttscratch wrote: -Reps: On armor tanks they have a weak but constant stream of reps, that when coupled with hardeners will laugh off a lot off damage, further more reason to time your attacks right. Shied tanks have a native rep, but also a heavy boost that will replinish a good amount instantly. key here is to trick them into using the reps, before you unleash a real attack, use flux nades to assist swarmers, but the ideal AV for shield tanks is forge gun or rail tanks. Timing attacks based on hardeners? See above. Rail tanks? See above. There is a problem with multiple people being required to take down one person, especially when you are extremely limited on the amount of players you can field [16]. A tanker requires nothing in terms of strategy, or teamwork. Along with that, a tanker can easily produce the same results without the use of teamwork in any way, condition, shape or form. To simplify things, if AV requires teamwork, then HAVs should require teamwork. Sgt Buttscratch wrote: -Turrets ***** hurt, stop feeding them, understand their range, and their range of motion(speed they turn, and where they can turn) for the most it's easier to hide, that to try just get across the road hoping he doesn't you. Make sure when your at out post where you can be where a tank can't see. I don't have much to comment on this, but there are very few places that a tank can't see you while in 3rd person view, or while using Active Scanners. Though most infantry who are "feeding you" are doing so as a distraction. Keep that in mind. Sgt Buttscratch wrote: -Defeat or defend? You need to make a fast assessment on whether or not a tank needs to be destroyed or just pushed back, the embedded pre 1.7 mentality only sees killing a tank as good enough, with the strength of the current tank you need to be happy just to stop the tank from getting to certain area's. No, only killing a tank is good enough. Why? Because you only get re-warded for killing the tank. CCP has confirmed that WP for vehicle damage will make a return in 1.8 however. As for your last statement, what if I said "With the current strength of AV, you need to be happy just to stop yourself from dying?". (Pre 1.7) Sgt Buttscratch wrote: -More tankers now than ever** What does this mean? Basically if you remember a tanker by name from pre 1.7, he is for the most going to be a good tanker. He drove tanks in the dark ages, his understanding of survivability is an evil combo with the new tanks. The rest, for the most are scrubs, people who need to be in that tank, but are usually with lack of true tank knowledge, they wont be checking their overhead to observe other tanks, they wont plan great escapes before an escape is ever needed, bull head numbskulls. FREE WP. You say this as if "true tank knowledge" is actual knowledge. It's common sense. Tanking wasn't in the "dark ages" before 1.7. Dropships were, but tanks were far from. The GOOD tankers actually survived while the SCRUB tankers posted QQ and exaggerated as much as they possibly could on the forums. Tanks were UP, but the only roles that were in a "dark ages" back then were Dropships, Scouts, and Heavies. You give yourself too much credit. Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Sgt Buttscratch 1256	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:09:00 - [23] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I ran a set of Wyrrkomi state swarms, and triple damage mods, no proficency. I ran BEHIND a madrugar, threw a flux, fired the first clip, reloaded got off 2 shots, and he was at 54 armor. Then a rail rifle scrapped me. I still had 1 shot left, and i was breaking through resists too. If a no-proficiency swarmer like me can get -that- close to killing a tank WITH RESISTS UP, how come all you PROTO PROF V QUADRUPLE DAMAGE MOD assholes can't kill one? I see tanks as stronger than before but still just 200WP, people want to insta pop them, and then get angry when thy stand 20ft away from a blaster tank and cant out DPS the turret.. GET ATMESON wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: This isn't the tankers fault, the players have chose to become few and far between, pre 1.7 every mother **** seemed to have at least ADV AV.. As I said they'll lose isk, if you go at them right. My proto swarms are a very pretty flare gun that do no damage. Which is why I stopped spawning with it. I've killed tanks with my ADV swarms... All I did was get a freind to help jump him when he didn't want to be attacked. Thats what I'm saying in the OP. You need to develope new tactics. With your mentality you should withdraw from wanting in the CPM. Why should we AV'ers learn new "tactics" when your doing your old tactics. Run into a group of players and blast them all. Then run away when you have 10 seconds left on your hardners? Tanks SHOULDNT be allowed to run into a group of players for over 30 seconds with AV going at it. Thats if they can get out any AV shot with the other sides INF shooting at the AV'ers. Tankers wanted GOD MODE. They got it. Enjoy the month while you can. No matter how much you say Tankers with blasters aren't OP they really are. Look at all the tankers KDR now a days. Besides tankers brought this out on them selfs. Tankers in uprising 1.1- 1.4 were mean killers. Then players got sick of it and went AV. Pro AV SHOULD be > Then STD tank's your using. Blame CCP for not giving you all your tanks. Keep in mind that there are 3-8 tanks on an ambush map every game. AV cant kill them fast enough do to it taking 3 AV per tank. That leaves the other side to kill the AV due to blueberrys being Rtards. In the end. Your tanks with blasters are OP. Get over it. You'll be nerfed or av will be buffed. Samething with CB and RR. Tanks are only OP when you LET THEM BE OP, I'll won't be nerfed, I run Gall scout and Gall Assault, hard to nerf them.... Tankers didn't want GODMODE, they wanted the cheap bullshit that AV was, balanced. Personally I hate the 1.7 patch, they made such a big change when the answer was much simpler. Use 1.6 Armor tanks as the model to work everything around, Shield tanks needed the fix they took crazy ass terrain dmg, and armor tanks were better tha them at everything. As for AV, they just needed to render the swarms, and drop the dmg proto dealt to ADV levels, 1.6 armor tanks were balanced very nicely to ADV AV. Instead they went nuts at CCP as usual, they never just trim the issues, the go OTT one way or the other. Try creating squads that are not just designed to maul infantry, thats why a tank sits there for 30 seconds, cuz you aint got ** for him. Everytime I have been on my Heavy/FG/HMG alt, tanks don't seem to want to hang around for too long..crazy. I see people hiding from shield tanks cuz no-one thought "well considering there OBVIOUSLY going to be tanks, maybe I should bring my FLUX", you do know they work on shields right, both infantry and vehicles. Broaden your thinking, there will be tanks.. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
LEHON Xeon Pradox XVI 4	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:18:00 - [24] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: The inherent problem is that tankers have a near no-risk gameplay style. They cry if they die more than once every six matches, because dying in a match for them is unusual. That's a problem in a first-person shooter. Even if someone does attack their tank, three-second recalls mean they still lose nothing. They're practically invulnerable to the rest of the players on the map, and the few players fit to remove them are far in-between and easily avoidable. Exactly. They think that it's just fine that I should loose around a 300k fully outfitted proto suit about 4-5 times per match (and sometimes in rapid succession due to spawn point camping) because of excessive tank spam, but oh heaven forbid if some guy on a roof or tower hits their precious little tank which now costs less than my one suit. Can't ever afford to loose more than one or none per match you know because that just "isn't balanced and fair" and AV "does just way too much damage". Far as I'm concerned, the only people that have a beef right now with vehicles and AV are dropship pilots. I don't see dropship pilots going 72-0 repeatedly in matches. And I don't want to hear about "play better or increase your skills" from these tankers who sit in a vehicle the entire map and only die twice if infantry is lucky with their only threats being orbital bombardments or another guy who is more skilled in a tank. End of rant. Anyway, something does need to be fixed with AV and tanks. I'd be more willing to buy the current state of the game if tanks that used this current platform were ones that were high into proto with multiple skills maxed out, not militia. If something isn't done about this now already, what is it going to turn into when people do round out all these levels for tanks? If Walking Is So Good For You, Then Why Does My Mailman Look Like Jabba The Hut?
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 168	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:20:00 - [25] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: So you didn't kill him with advanced swarms. You needed a friend's help to kill him with advanced swarms. That's a large difference. There's an inherent problem with a tank requiring multiple players to kill it. It's a math problem. In a game where you have sixteen versus sixteen players, each player effectively competes with approximately one other player. (Noting that some players are better, and some are worse, so this varies a bit.) As it takes multiple players to kill one tanker, unless the enemy team also has tanks, the tank effectively unbalances the match size, because a tank is "worth" two to four players, even if it is only piloted by a single player. The fact that I think tanks should be nerfed, and you don't, probably means you wouldn't vote for me, but that really isn't a good reason for me not to run. god your so wrong let me tell you lmao tanks were already nerfed in other builds, your just another person that see's them actually doing their job, and now you dont like it. nuff said. tanks aren't changing anytime soon, so get use to it. VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
Sgt Buttscratch 1256	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:27:00 - [26] - Quote @Atiim hardeners, yes the can be cycled, tank recalled... Yes these ones are a pain in the ass, and I usually rely on me and a friend calling in the dmg sica, and hitting them fast, only infantry AV that could really hurt them is two good FG's. I understand that using a tank may not be technically infantry AV, but people need to adjust to maybe having to call in a sica quickly to help remove him. Sica with dmg mods really just an AV weapon used by infantry, they arent tanks, they die very very fast, but also kill very very fast. My comment on hardeners is for the stupid amount of people I see trying to use swarmers on glowing tanks. Limited people in a 16v16, 1 rep logi and a heavily armor player can take out A LOT of people, my squads record was 86/4. 86 players killed by 2 players. So if a tank takes too many people to kill, and throws the balance off, can we put a limit on logi's healing people? Or a sniper who goes 40/0, limit snipers due to them being too effective for just one person with a weapon? The only limit I'd ever agree with is in ambush, that mode is currently an absolute joke, other than that, be it a double standard I don't think lowering the limit on vehicles is good. Hiding from tanks, IT CAN BE DONE. for some reason I watch people trying to dance with them... even tho they could have easily just ran around a little beuilding or behind obvious cover. Killing a tank is only good enough in the aspect of personal gain, when looking to win a match, surpression can be helpful to your entire team. Dark ages: I saw dropships, and flew dropship without losing them plenty of times pre 1.7, they were weaker but they are not the heavy armor variants, so I didn't expect them to out survive a tank, that has more terrain to hide behind, rather than relying on hit the flight ceiling fast fast. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 494	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:52:00 - [27] - Quote I'm just going to post this here, that if swarms get ANY range buff, then i demand scouts get a 1.5m/s sprint buff, you wanna break the game, let scouts do it too! If swarms damage gets buffed, then give knives and shotguns a 30-50% damage buff. You wish to instakill tanks? Then give scouts the same. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3087	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:57:00 - [28] - Quote @ Sgt Buttscratch (Btw thanks for not trying to quote my reply, as that would've hurt my eyes) People already have adjusted to using a Sica to remove them, and that's another problem. With littile to no SP investment you can be better at AV than any AV weapon in the game, while also being immune to everything but the thing your AVing. A tank should never be the best answer to another tank, in the same sense that any role shouldn't be the best counter to itself. I actually made a thread exploiting the problems with that here. As for your example about the Logsitics/Heavy combo, I have serious trouble believing that you went up against people who actually knew what they were doing. Kill the logi, then kill the heavy. Or send in the CreoDrons. A sniper doesn't require more than one person to kill. A Scout can easily make quick work of that sniper, provided s/he isn't in the redline. But the redline itself is broken so that's an exception. Yes, hiding from tanks can be done. A Complex Profile dampner on a Med Frame makes you invisible to it's scanner. I just wanted to inform you that a some of the people trying to "dance" are simply a distraction. Though there are those blueberries, but it's best to ignore those blueberries. Killing a tank is only good enough in just about every gamemode besides PC. (And maybe FW if your a loyalist.) Why would I shell out near 860k (4 AV fits) for the simple sake of "pushing a tank back?" Would you shell out 860k per match just for your blueberries and squadmates? That's why most AVers have decided to move on to MLT Railguns. Heck, I'm only here because of the insane amount of SLs I received from salvage and the Winter Carnage. 860k or 75k? Whatever shall I pick? Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3092	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:01:00 - [29] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I'm just going to post this here, that if swarms get ANY range buff, then i demand scouts get a 1.5m/s sprint buff, you wanna break the game, let scouts do it too! If swarms damage gets buffed, then give knives and shotguns a 30-50% damage buff. You wish to instakill tanks? Then give scouts the same. ANY range buff won't break Swarms.It will just make it to where vehicles will still be able to evade AV, but it will require an ACTUAL effort to evade ~ as it should be. Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 910	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:02:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: A tanker requires nothing in terms of strategy, or teamwork. Along with that, a tanker can easily produce the same results without the use of teamwork in any way, condition, shape or form. To simplify things, if AV requires teamwork, then HAVs should require teamwork. This is a huge point. I'm fine with tanks at the strength they are now, overall, but the main turret and the driver's seat should be decoupled (driver can use small front turret), and the modules should be on the third seat/second small turret, so that the full power of a tank either requires epic seat switching, or actual teamwork. Then MAVs, which have been shown off at last year's fanfest, can step in as the solo vehicle that people have been using HAVs for, though obviously being much easier to AV. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate



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