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Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:14:00 - [1] - Quote If CCP would just give Swarm launchers back their Lock Range and keep the damage nerf they have implemented. It would fix a lot of the problems with 'Red line ' tanks, Un-droppable Drop ships. Not Enough damage for one person to kill them but enough range to be peskey to them and make them have to use their Skills to out maneuver them to a safer, ( note I said "SAFER" ) not SAFE zone to regroup. It would also give them a chance to use those new skills/mods that most find OP. j/k. It might also settle down some of the complaints about Militia type tanks and dropships being to cheap and ever body being a 'pro' with them and them having no skills to back it up. The 'Cheaper' models of those vehicles would be at the Most disadvantage of increased range of the old lock range on the swarms. Just a thought. You may now release the hounds with flame throwers on this idea.
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 650	Posted - 2014.01.04 22:41:00 - [2] - Quote No CCP needs to give back the range AND damage. The swarm is a caldari weapon. Caldari specialize in long range and high damage. They are betraying the lore of the game and that is not right. By changing the swarm they are lying to the people who play this game. All they needed to do was reduce the price on vehicles thats it. But no they went and betrayed the lore which is the worst thing a game developer can do.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 449	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:25:00 - [3] - Quote Suanar Daranaus wrote: If CCP would just give Swarm launchers back their Lock Range and keep the damage nerf they have implemented. It would fix a lot of the problems with 'Red line ' tanks, Un-droppable Drop ships. Not Enough damage for one person to kill them but enough range to be peskey to them and make them have to use their Skills to out maneuver them to a safer, ( note I said "SAFER" ) not SAFE zone to regroup. It would also give them a chance to use those new skills/mods that most find OP. j/k. It might also settle down some of the complaints about Militia type tanks and dropships being to cheap and ever body being a 'pro' with them and them having no skills to back it up. The 'Cheaper' models of those vehicles would be at the Most disadvantage of increased range of the old lock range on the swarms. Just a thought. You may now release the hounds with flame throwers on this idea. No, you guys don't deserve to be able to sit on a tower all game with no threat other than snipers and orbitals. Don't ** over the real tankers because scrubs in militia abuse it. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| Losematar** Scout What is a signature?
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2032	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:36:00 - [4] - Quote I still say: Buff missile damage by 30 = 250 damage per missile (down from 330 in 1.6) Buff range by 25m = 200m range (down from 400 in 1.6) These small buffs would get the Swarm Launcher a lot closer to being balanced. After seeing the how that plays out we can determine if they need to be buffed any further. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3393	Posted - 2014.01.04 23:39:00 - [5] - Quote Well, here's something to think about: Redline rails are cheap, but so are swarm users sitting on towers that can lock onto just about anything on the map. We used to have a time machine
Zunist Tae Single Player Opps 22	Posted - 2014.01.05 00:11:00 - [6] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Well, here's something to think about: Redline rails are cheap, but so are swarm users sitting on towers that can lock onto just about anything on the map. So are drop ships that float overhead dropping missiles on me while safely out of reach.
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 107	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:30:00 - [7] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I still say: Buff missile damage by 30 = 250 damage per missile (down from 330 in 1.6) Buff range by 25m = 200m range (down from 400 in 1.6) These small buffs would get the Swarm Launcher a lot closer to being balanced. After seeing the how that plays out we can determine if they need to be buffed any further. That's a reasonable place to start with.
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 4290	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:33:00 - [8] - Quote "I WANT TO CAMP MOUNTAINS AGAIN!" - OP Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 107	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:39:00 - [9] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: "I WANT TO CAMP MOUNTAINS AGAIN!" - OP So go Do it.
Geo MERCEDES Daft Punk Fan Club 0	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:50:00 - [10] - Quote Suanar Daranaus wrote: If CCP would just give Swarm launchers back their Lock Range and keep the damage nerf they have implemented. It would fix a lot of the problems with 'Red line ' tanks, Un-droppable Drop ships. Not Enough damage for one person to kill them but enough range to be peskey to them and make them have to use their Skills to out maneuver them to a safer, ( note I said "SAFER" ) not SAFE zone to regroup. It would also give them a chance to use those new skills/mods that most find OP. j/k. It might also settle down some of the complaints about Militia type tanks and dropships being to cheap and ever body being a 'pro' with them and them having no skills to back it up. The 'Cheaper' models of those vehicles would be at the Most disadvantage of increased range of the old lock range on the swarms. Just a thought. You may now release the hounds with flame throwers on this idea. I'd almost rather they buff the damage and keep the range how it is. I ran swarms a fair bit before 1.7 and I have to admit it was a little silly how I could stand on hills, not worry about dying, and pop tanks anywhere on the map. On the other hand, the way swarms are now is also silly in that they can't really destroy tanks at all. Since it can't lock on to infantry there's no reason why it shouldn't have more damage per hit.

Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 904	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:52:00 - [11] - Quote I was amazed how close to a derpship I had to be to swarm it. Practically right under it when it wasn't even that high off the ground. And when I got near actually making a dent in it... it flew well higher than I could lock. I actually had far better luck this patch killing a dropship with a blaster installation. More range, more damage. Less fail. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 494	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:55:00 - [12] - Quote 175 meters is a long enough range, ever tried shooting a rail rifle past 150? That's some huge frickin distance. Past 200m they don't even render, so stop wishing for gamebreaking things. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 414	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:56:00 - [13] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: No CCP needs to give back the range AND damage. The swarm is a caldari weapon. Caldari specialize in long range and high damage. They are betraying the lore of the game and that is not right. By changing the swarm they are lying to the people who play this game. All they needed to do was reduce the price on vehicles thats it. But no they went and betrayed the lore which is the worst thing a game developer can do. I disagree. CCP scr*wed the pooch when they made too many changes at once to tanks AND swarms. They need to fix it by taking it one step at a time. Start out by offering a weaker (i.e. the current version,) longer-range (older) version of swarms at first and then adjust accordingly. For the record, I have proto swarms. Life is killing me.
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 906	Posted - 2014.01.06 18:59:00 - [14] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: I disagree. CCP scrwed the pooch when they made too many changes at once to tanks AND swarms. They need to fix it by taking it one step at a time. Start out by offering a weaker (i.e. the current version,) longer-range (older) version of swarms at first and then adjust accordingly. For the record, I have proto swarms. The gradual changes thing is a big thing I keep trying to emphasize. CCP tries to "balance" things by changing three or four elements of an imbalanced situation at a time. This leads to massive over-nerfs and massive over-buffs. That's why the following list of formerly overpowered weapons are now 100% completely useless: Tactical Assault Rifle, Flaylock Pistol, Impact Grenade, Swarm Launcher CCP should only be buffing or nerfing things by like 10% at a time. Gradual balance changes will nudge* things where they need to be, but CCP's current procedure is to take OP weapons and make them useless, and take UP weapons and make them unstoppable. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 760	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:00:00 - [15] - Quote Soldiersaint wrote: No CCP needs to give back the range AND damage. The swarm is a caldari weapon. Caldari specialize in long range and high damage. They are betraying the lore of the game and that is not right. By changing the swarm they are lying to the people who play this game. All they needed to do was reduce the price on vehicles thats it. But no they went and betrayed the lore which is the worst thing a game developer can do. The problem with too much damage is that dropships are too easy to kill. I think they should have separate AV for tanks (no change in damage but slightly increased range) and dropships (moderately less damage in return for moderately increased range). Munch Dedicated Sniper. Minmatar Patriot (6).
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2154	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:13:00 - [16] - Quote Get good OP Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3086	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:14:00 - [17] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Get good OP Sadly Tankahiro, that would imply that your "good" in the first place. Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3086	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:17:00 - [18] - Quote Range does need an increase, but 400m was way too far. As for damage, increase the damage by 110HP per Missile and go from there. Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2154	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:17:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Get good OP Sadly Tankahiro, that would imply that your "good" in the first place. I am good I dont get killed by milita dropships like you do Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3087	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:20:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I am good I dont get killed by milita dropships like you do I got killed by an Incubus with both a PRO and a MLT missile Launcher firing at me. The fact that you couldn't survive a match against AV before 1.7 means that you weren't good at all. Scrub maybe? Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!

calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1597	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:21:00 - [21] - Quote rather damage be returned then range. range makes it possible to get away, range adds risk to the swarmer, hell I'd be fine hitting the range another 10% if it meant having the damage back. damage being laughably low is what makes the swarms impotent. on top of that range was also inadvertently causing the invisible swarm bug which is now gone because of the range nerf.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2154	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:24:00 - [22] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I am good I dont get killed by milita dropships like you do I got killed by an Incubus with both a PRO and a MLT missile Launcher firing at me. The fact that you couldn't survive a match against AV before 1.7 means that you weren't good at all. Scrub maybe? Dont lie it was a militia DS with a milita turret But i could survive and you couldnt Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3087	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:28:00 - [23] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dont lie it was a militia DS with a milita turret But i could survive and you couldnt Then link the video, because I'm pretty sure there aren't any while MLT DS. And the turret that Pyrex was using was an XT-1. Pretty sure that's PRO. Funny considering how you spent almost all of Uprising QQing about how you couldn't survive PRO AV, when I and many others could. You must not be as good as you think you are. Should I be embarrassed for you right now? Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2154	Posted - 2014.01.06 19:31:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Dont lie it was a militia DS with a milita turret But i could survive and you couldnt Then link the video, because I'm pretty sure there aren't any while MLT DS. And the turret that Pyrex was using was an XT-1. Pretty sure that's PRO. Funny considering how you spent almost all of Uprising QQing about how you couldn't survive PRO AV, when I and many others could. You must not be as good as you think you are. Should I be embarrassed for you right now? lol changing your story like you do your views If you were as good at tanking as you are flip flopping about you might be good enough for PC but then again you get killed by milita dropships far too much Intelligence is OP
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 3092	Posted - 2014.01.06 20:08:00 - [25] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol changing your story like you do your views If you were as good at tanking as you are flip flopping about you might be good enough for PC but then again you get killed by milita dropships far too much You and I both know it was an Incubus, and you and I both know that Pyrex was using XT-1s. Heck, I'll even ask Pyrex and Evo-7 themselves.(Evo's in my local, shouldn't be too hard to find him.) Changing my views about what? I'm now embarrassed for you. I though that Sokr4TheDead was an embarrassment, but you sir take the cake. Though I'm convinced that you and Spkr are the same person. Tanker > Logi > Scout > AV > Heavy > Assault > Sniper > Ninja > Forum Warrior. And more weapons than you can count!
danthrax martin Butcher's Nails 24	Posted - 2014.01.06 22:14:00 - [26] - Quote Yeah, just a little more range is all i WANT, but teamwork with our tankers is starting to pay off good... So how it stands with dropships does suck the big one. Adv. Commando, AR / swarm Adv. Sentinel, AR / HMG "I need More Ammo!!!"....."Medic!"
tastzlike chicken ROGUE SPADES 112	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:02:00 - [27] - Quote GÇ£AdaptGÇ¥ , GÇ£You have to change your tacticsGÇ¥, GÇ£You have to time your attackGÇ¥, GÇ£Know the vehicleGÇÖs weaknessesGÇ¥, GÇ£YouGÇÖre just used to the OP god gun swarm launchers used to beGÇ¥, GÇ£Get goodGÇ¥, GÇ£Use a smoke grenadeGÇ¥ ( Oh, sorry, that last disingenuous unhelpfully helpful auto-answer was from a different gameGÇª) I agree most of the tactical advice tankers are flogging would be AVGÇÖers with. Speaking as a part time proto swarm user I would like to think that most of us rapidly adopted the tactics that tankers and others have outlined and still find our AV weapon of choice lacking. The swarm launcher is nowhere near as pathetic as the plasma cannon but at least they can shoot infantry with it when they need to. (Please, do not reinstitute dumb fire Swarms). I use it as an area denial weapon, to give infantry some breathing room or a brief opportunity to traverse an open killzone. It is currently the most effective use of the Swarm Launcher GÇôbut if you look at my score at the end of a match where I was doing this as a dedicated function, you would wonder if I had done anything at all the whole match. Crap-ton of damage dealt but little reward for it. Current hardeners +current tank speed = extremely low risk engagement of infantry for all but the most inept tankers. Swarm launchers needed to be nerfed but the HAV changes plus the changes to the SL was a little bit much from the SL users point of view. I do think they are closer to being balanced than they were before. A good first step would be to restore the swarm launcher damage. Leave the lock on range as is; it was broken before. LetGÇÖs see how that goes for a while. Something that CCP could do that would augment the swarm launcher and complicate combat (in a good way) would be to create a tackler role. Give me a means to slow your escape -- Webifier technology (as has been suggested by others) to slow your roll. (Stasis webifiers reduce the speed of a target by a certain percentage and the effects stack (subject to penalty)). I would engineer them to have high fitting costs and be short range, line of sight infantry modules so that HAV gunners (and enemy infantry) can un-ass the tank by dealing with the tacklers. GÇôand/or create a vehicle module that can perform this duty. This provides a new role for the battlefield and should promote GÇ£teamworkGÇ¥ both to kill a tank and to keep it up and running. It doesnGÇÖt inherently buff the swarm launcher but does tie up more infantry to increase the effectiveness of the existing AV systems. I shy away from the idea of a webifier grenade (spam abuse and too low risk for infantry compared to its effect. I also donGÇÖt think webs should be AOE) however, I could support a deployable equipment item. The lock on range of SL's was a problem. It was too easy for SL infantry to destroy vehicles from relative safety.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 432	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:18:00 - [28] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Soldiersaint wrote: No CCP needs to give back the range AND damage. The swarm is a caldari weapon. Caldari specialize in long range and high damage. They are betraying the lore of the game and that is not right. By changing the swarm they are lying to the people who play this game. All they needed to do was reduce the price on vehicles thats it. But no they went and betrayed the lore which is the worst thing a game developer can do. The problem with too much damage is that dropships are too easy to kill. I think they should have separate AV for tanks (no change in damage but slightly increased range) and dropships (moderately less damage in return for moderately increased range). Munch Do give swarms their old range back and take out some Forge Gun range? Because that's what I think you're asking for (which I agree with you).
Toby Flenderson research lab 185	Posted - 2014.01.07 00:38:00 - [29] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Suanar Daranaus wrote: If CCP would just give Swarm launchers back their Lock Range and keep the damage nerf they have implemented. It would fix a lot of the problems with 'Red line ' tanks, Un-droppable Drop ships. Not Enough damage for one person to kill them but enough range to be peskey to them and make them have to use their Skills to out maneuver them to a safer, ( note I said "SAFER" ) not SAFE zone to regroup. It would also give them a chance to use those new skills/mods that most find OP. j/k. It might also settle down some of the complaints about Militia type tanks and dropships being to cheap and ever body being a 'pro' with them and them having no skills to back it up. The 'Cheaper' models of those vehicles would be at the Most disadvantage of increased range of the old lock range on the swarms. Just a thought. You may now release the hounds with flame throwers on this idea. No, you guys don't deserve to be able to sit on a tower all game with no threat other than snipers and orbitals. Don't **** over the real tankers because scrubs in militia abuse it. A proto swarm with prof 3 and 3 complex damage mods is barely enough to kill a dropship in one clip as is. Dropships could easily fly up and destroy someone camping on a building just by activating hardeners. As far as only snipers being a threat then just consider how FGs are a tanks only threat right now. I'd argue that the ratio of snipers to SLs is higher than FGs to tanks recently. The only thing that the range buff would really do is make it harder to run away from SLs. It's too easy to do as of now. Add a little more range to the SL and they'll start catching the weaker/less skilled tankers. If you're a "real tanker" then you should have no problem beating SLs with your modules and speed.
Echo 1991 Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 21	Posted - 2014.01.07 01:18:00 - [30] - Quote I just find it funny that tanks can things from 200-250m away but if we have the same thing its OP. Look you guys have to remember that you are mostly using standard/militia tanks and dropships and proto AV isn't quite good enough to deal with it unless it is within an organized squad or the tanker is a complete idiot, what happens when the better tanks and dropships are introduced and do not even get dented by the AV we currently have? (Hopefully they'll be balance by then) I'll admit that sitting on a roof with a swarm launcher doesn't take much skill, but neither does red-line sniping. While tanks can move as fast as they can and can sit in the red line without any fear of dying, swarms should at the very least have their range back at the very least a 75m increase. The main counter to a tank should not be a tank. Also dropships are practically invincible in the hands of a skilled pilot, when swarms hit it, it just flies off out of range unless we have a decent forge gunner.



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