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Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1393	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:47:00 - [1] - Quote So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2304	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:51:00 - [2] - Quote One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. // Spear Lieutenant // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Valmorgan Aubaris Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services ACME Holding Conglomerate 106	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:52:00 - [3] - Quote lol you got pwnd EVE alliance seeks mercs, join Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services today! Let's gank Scotty.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1053	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:54:00 - [4] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. Yeah, yeah, yeah!! how nice that this game has UNLIMITED clone counts!!!...........er WAIT!!! Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1394	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:55:00 - [5] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1394	Posted - 2014.01.02 16:58:00 - [6] - Quote Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: lol you got pwnd Indeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2304	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:04:00 - [7] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. // Spear Lieutenant // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 21	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:10:00 - [8] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. I like how you assume that the 15 other people on the other team are incompetent or sitting around with their thumbs up their butt.
Thumb Green Titans of Phoenix 617	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:11:00 - [9] - Quote There's a lot of objectives that can be accessed by tanks and certainly a tanker can't capture the objective without getting out of his tank as many have said. But what they forget is that the tanker doesn't have to get out of his tank; all the tanker has to do is sit there blasting away at any fool that tries to stop his teammate(s) from capturing the objective. CCP: Is it the most asinine way possible to do this? Yes. Then that's how we're doing it.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1396	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:14:00 - [10] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. We had an AVer, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1054	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:15:00 - [11] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. These sound like infantry only weapons?: ndeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? Yep. Nerfed AV so just go and hide until more enemy tanks arrive and the enemy wins by not by captures but by killing all the available clones. Tank514...lol. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2304	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:22:00 - [12] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. // Spear Lieutenant // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 971	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:25:00 - [13] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? Sounds like that one guy got smart. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1398	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:32:00 - [14] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1499	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:40:00 - [15] - Quote RE's are your friends. 1. Make a jihad jeep 2. Place 3 RE's on the ground wait for the tank "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2098	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:48:00 - [16] - Quote A team of crack infantry - lolwanting AR to kill tanks are we? Crack infantry which cannot adapt = crap infantry tbh Crack infantry = You kill the enemy infantry and ignore the tank because he cant hack a point lol No vehicle back up? whos fault is that? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm = Point held down because you kill infantry and tank cant hack a point It sounds like your crack team is crap and ***** itself when a tank arrives Intelligence is OP
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1402	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:56:00 - [17] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A team of crack infantry - lolwanting AR to kill tanks are we? Crack infantry which cannot adapt = crap infantry tbh Crack infantry = You kill the enemy infantry and ignore the tank because he cant hack a point lol No vehicle back up? whos fault is that? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm = Point held down because you kill infantry and tank cant hack a point It sounds like your crack team is crap and ***** itself when a tank arrives Oh my greatest apologies I hadn't considered we were to blame I mean its not like the tank killed us all or anything. We must clearly want to kill tanks with ARs because I mentioned that we were all running that did I? Its amazing, you seem to think we have the brain capacity of yourself. Said 6 man squad against tank = unequivocally dea, despite AV. You know its rather hard to defend a point when you are all dead. I mean its amazing I jist gave you a scenario where the current iteration of tanks gives you an 'I win' card and the best you can come up with is 'You trying to shoot it with AR's?' Its utterly astounding, I'll have to submit a paper on it, can I autopsy you? Im intregiued as to how thick that skull of yours must be. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Tectonic Fusion 920	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:58:00 - [18] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: RE's are your friends. 1. Make a jihad jeep 2. Place 3 RE's on the ground wait for the tank Not enough time. I personally always carry basic REs on a dragonfly scout with advanced flux grenades. It works wonders if they are in 1st person mode. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2098	Posted - 2014.01.02 17:58:00 - [19] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A team of crack infantry - lolwanting AR to kill tanks are we? Crack infantry which cannot adapt = crap infantry tbh Crack infantry = You kill the enemy infantry and ignore the tank because he cant hack a point lol No vehicle back up? whos fault is that? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm = Point held down because you kill infantry and tank cant hack a point It sounds like your crack team is crap and ***** itself when a tank arrives Oh my greatest apologies I hadn't considered we were to blame I mean its not like the tank killed us all or anything. We must clearly want to kill tanks with ARs because I mentioned that we were all running that did I? Its amazing, you seem to think we have the brain capacity of yourself. Said 6 man squad against tank = unequivocally dea, despite AV. You know its rather hard to defend a point when you are all dead. I mean its amazing I jist gave you a scenario where the current iteration of tanks gives you an 'I win' card and the best you can come up with is 'You trying to shoot it with AR's?' Its utterly astounding, I'll have to submit a paper on it, can I autopsy you? Im intregiued as to how thick that skull of yours must be. Your all dead Cant you use cover? Sounds like bad team is bad tbh Intelligence is OP
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2305	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:03:00 - [20] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? OK, this I'm happy to take a stab at. Monkey MAC wrote: Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Forge guns are effective. Swarm launchers required a coordinated effort to be effective against tanks but are useful in driving off Dropships and killing cheap LAVs. Active hardeners are supposed to give "a moment of opportunity" to the vehicle driver. That "moment" can be lengthened through skill and fitting choices to the point that tanks require another tank for AV combat. There is an ongoing argument on whether one Swarm user should be able to take out a tank. I don't think they should be able to but there are valid points to both sides of the argument. I do believe that AV should get WP for damaging vehicles. We had it at one time but it was removed because of abuse. Rumor is that its coming back. Short answer is that swarms are light weapons. It should take a heavy weapon to take out heavy armor and even that is not a guarantee. Monkey MAC wrote: Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Yes. They brought in a more well rounded force with more capabilities than yours. If you are running with a squad then one or two should be designated drivers. If you are running with randoms then you get what you get and don't throw a fit. (Sorry. The wife is a teacher and I hear that all the time!) It's possible in some structures to avoid vehicles almost entirely too. In others you will need a vehicle to counter a vehicle. Monkey MAC wrote: Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? I agree that the current cost to power ratio is out of balance with militia tanks. Dedicated tankers willing to field more money and spend more skill points in their profession should have power. I also hold the very unpopular belief that tanks should require a crew to be effective. The driver should drive and control the small front turret. A separate gunner should be required for the main gun. That would bring some balance back to the equation. Monkey MAC wrote: Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Bringing AV was a smart move but not quite enough. I think I gave my opinions why in the answers above. As an assault dropship pilot one swarm user can prevent me from hovering overhead and wiping out an entire squad. It won't stop me from hit and run tactics. One dropship can drive off or kill a tank and provide transportation. If you squad doesn't want to drive tanks then one pilot could provide a lot of assistance. The beauty of a game like DUST is that encounters are rarely fair. Choice of equipment and tactics before a match has even begun can dictate the outcome. After the battle perform a brief After Action Review and see what you can do differently the next time. After this engagement I would suggest considering a few things: 1. Should your squad have a dedicated driver and/or pilot? 2. Should you increase the amount of AV in your squad? 3. Should you upgrade your AV to forge guns or stick to swarms? 4. Should your squad train into and carry high end AV grenades? 5. Should your squad focus on hit and run tactics. Let the team take the objective while you rush with superior mobility to take the others? // Spear Lieutenant // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana

Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1404	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:06:00 - [21] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A team of crack infantry - lolwanting AR to kill tanks are we? Crack infantry which cannot adapt = crap infantry tbh Crack infantry = You kill the enemy infantry and ignore the tank because he cant hack a point lol No vehicle back up? whos fault is that? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm = Point held down because you kill infantry and tank cant hack a point It sounds like your crack team is crap and ***** itself when a tank arrives Oh my greatest apologies I hadn't considered we were to blame I mean its not like the tank killed us all or anything. We must clearly want to kill tanks with ARs because I mentioned that we were all running that did I? Its amazing, you seem to think we have the brain capacity of yourself. Said 6 man squad against tank = unequivocally dea, despite AV. You know its rather hard to defend a point when you are all dead. I mean its amazing I jist gave you a scenario where the current iteration of tanks gives you an 'I win' card and the best you can come up with is 'You trying to shoot it with AR's?' Its utterly astounding, I'll have to submit a paper on it, can I autopsy you? Im intregiued as to how thick that skull of yours must be. Your all dead Cant you use cover? Sounds like bad team is bad tbh Hmm, I even went to the effort of telling you about the complex, It has a whole side open, What find odd though ia you seem to think hiding is an acceptable tactic. I think that just shows the tanker mindset. If I can see you and your not in a tank it should be instadeath. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2306	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:14:00 - [22] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: What find odd though ia you seem to think hiding is an acceptable tactic. I think that just shows the tanker mindset. Don't think of it as hiding. Think of it as using terrain to your advantage. Vehicle drivers have to do the same thing. You need to lose the infantry mindset that not constantly firing your weapon means you aren't doing your job. // Spear Lieutenant // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 152	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:25:00 - [23] - Quote what your saying is "we had ONE av guy in our squad"? one guy cant take down tanks anymore bro, get better, adapt or die. soon you'll be complaining about jets, troop transports, mechs, and laser tanks, so i suggest you get more av, a tanker in your squad, or better friends. VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 972	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:26:00 - [24] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A team of crack infantry - lolwanting AR to kill tanks are we? Crack infantry which cannot adapt = crap infantry tbh Crack infantry = You kill the enemy infantry and ignore the tank because he cant hack a point lol No vehicle back up? whos fault is that? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm = Point held down because you kill infantry and tank cant hack a point It sounds like your crack team is crap and ***** itself when a tank arrives Oh my greatest apologies I hadn't considered we were to blame I mean its not like the tank killed us all or anything. We must clearly want to kill tanks with ARs because I mentioned that we were all running that did I? Its amazing, you seem to think we have the brain capacity of yourself. Said 6 man squad against tank = unequivocally dea, despite AV. You know its rather hard to defend a point when you are all dead. I mean its amazing I jist gave you a scenario where the current iteration of tanks gives you an 'I win' card and the best you can come up with is 'You trying to shoot it with AR's?' Its utterly astounding, I'll have to submit a paper on it, can I autopsy you? Im intregiued as to how thick that skull of yours must be. I don't feel like I win with a tank. Most of the time I get blown up just pushing an area too much. This complaining about tanks being OP in every type of situation is silly. Why can't tanks dominate in a certain scenario? Non-tankers always act like they just don't want tanks to win anything. If they did they wouldn't be complaining about tanks and instead complain about all the other problems that cause imbalance GÇö namely game modes, matchmaking and worst of all, map design. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2098	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:28:00 - [25] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A team of crack infantry - lolwanting AR to kill tanks are we? Crack infantry which cannot adapt = crap infantry tbh Crack infantry = You kill the enemy infantry and ignore the tank because he cant hack a point lol No vehicle back up? whos fault is that? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm = Point held down because you kill infantry and tank cant hack a point It sounds like your crack team is crap and ***** itself when a tank arrives Oh my greatest apologies I hadn't considered we were to blame I mean its not like the tank killed us all or anything. We must clearly want to kill tanks with ARs because I mentioned that we were all running that did I? Its amazing, you seem to think we have the brain capacity of yourself. Said 6 man squad against tank = unequivocally dea, despite AV. You know its rather hard to defend a point when you are all dead. I mean its amazing I jist gave you a scenario where the current iteration of tanks gives you an 'I win' card and the best you can come up with is 'You trying to shoot it with AR's?' Its utterly astounding, I'll have to submit a paper on it, can I autopsy you? Im intregiued as to how thick that skull of yours must be. Your all dead Cant you use cover? Sounds like bad team is bad tbh Hmm, I even went to the effort of telling you about the complex, It has a whole side open, What find odd though ia you seem to think hiding is an acceptable tactic. I think that just shows the tanker mindset. If I can see you and your not in a tank it should be instadeath. You refuse to hide so you die Frankly you can easy hold onto a point if no infantry are about and its the tank, you kill the infantry and afterwards hide But sounds like you got a crap squad still with the mindset of 1 proto swarmer will kill all vehicles Intelligence is OP
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1404	Posted - 2014.01.02 18:36:00 - [26] - Quote Reave, thank you for being so reasonable. I agree with some of the points you made, some I didn't. I agree a Swarm Launcher shouldn't outright destroy a vehicle by its self, that would be rather ridiculous. But at the same time I think it should be able to actively suppress tanks. At the moment this just doesn't happen, the tank seemed almost encouraged by our use of AV. He charged in with such speed, we were certain he probably boosted in. A swarm launcher should be at least capable of making a tanker soil his undies. I agree with your point on 'waves of opportunity' , but not completly. While it is meant to be a wave of time where the tanker is useful it should not be guaranteed. They should be strong enough to have the upper hand but weak enough to feel like they are probably gonna have to bug out early if they aren't careful. I disagree with the Teacher paragraph. First of all I hardly call 1 tank and a couple of infamtry well rounded, no offence. But secondly and most importantly is while we did have a tanker with us (q-synced), you are not always able respond. I personally feel it would be fairer if we could at least stave of the tank, even if we had to EVENTUALLY receive vehicular back-up it wouldn't necessarily be a problem. But at this point in time it doesn't work like that. I also thourly believe with points for AV damage, this will get a lot of people focusing more on suppresion and less on the kill. I propose the amount of damage you did is totalled up until a 30sec gap, all the warpoints are then rewarded u der a lump sum, + -- Vehicle Suppression. I'll finish by saying I don't want a return of 1.6, this iteration is much fairer on tankers, but at the same time it's not perfect. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 627	Posted - 2014.01.02 19:02:00 - [27] - Quote I think multiple guys hit on the key point here, but didnt get completely explicit; so I will; Your squad would have been able to win, if you had that same AV guy.. AND a couple of other squad members were carrying AV grenades. Ideally, the AV guy should have been carrying swarms AND remotes (AND AV grenades).. but its always nice to have a little extra coverage these days. Then one guy carries a hive.. and your squad is then a rain of AV death that a single tank will run away from. While still being primarily equipped for anti-infantry.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1405	Posted - 2014.01.02 19:12:00 - [28] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: I think multiple guys hit on the key point here, but didnt get completely explicit; so I will; Your squad would have been able to win, if you had that same AV guy.. AND a couple of other squad members were carrying AV grenades. Ideally, the AV guy should have been carrying swarms AND remotes (AND AV grenades).. but its always nice to have a little extra coverage these days. Then one guy carries a hive.. and your squad is then a rain of AV death that a single tank will run away from. While still being primarily equipped for anti-infantry. We switched over half the squad to AV grenades, we have been fortunate enough not to encounter a situation similar to that which I described here as I doubt it would have faired much better. But I would like to ask, should 1 man (the tanker) be so powerful as to be capable of overwhelming a superior force? Based on how one sided the Scenario was I could easily peg his equivalent force strength to at least 10. Is it fair to reduce the game to simple mathematics? As for the guy who said infantry are opposed to vehicles winning, first of all I want vehicles on my side to win. Secondly I onlynhave a problem with vehicles winning jf its a win due to overpoweredness. I enjoy the goodfight, not the massacre. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 627	Posted - 2014.01.02 19:53:00 - [29] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: We switched over half the squad to AV grenades, we have been fortunate enough not to encounter a situation similar to that which I described here as I doubt it would have faired much better. But I would like to ask, should 1 man (the tanker) be so powerful as to be capable of overwhelming a superior force? you are using improperly loaded language. Besides which... if the tanker wins, then clearly by empirical evidence, HE is the "superior force" :D To answer your implicit question of, "should a single tanker be able to basically run over 6 infantry that are non-AV, or inadequately AV equippped?" my opinion is "yes". The argument them becomes a matter of "how much is 'adequately' equipped?" which is not an easy thing to answer. Edit: there is then a side question of, "is there adequate capability for infantry to re-equip?", my opinion of which is, #@$%! NO!! Particularly when you get .... tankers blowing up the only supply depot on the map. When there is one at all. Ugh.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5339	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:13:00 - [30] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? That's kind of how it is in reality it doesn't matter so much how good you are as if your enemy brings better weapons, vehicles with heavy armour and machinegun, or ambushes you.....you....all die. Plus the term "Crack Squad of Infantry" is really subjective.....and in your case very much so biased..... To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK

Jason Pearson 3739	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:22:00 - [31] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? So allow me to get this straight. You're at a point defending it, only one of your guys has AV (I mean seriously, why aren't you all carrying AV nades? Or atleast half your crew carrying them?) and now a HAV is doing what it's meant to do, assault and breach a strongly defended location for a limited amount of time. Are you telling me there was absolutely nothing you could've done to have solved this issue? I mean you had one light AVer, nobody thought to carry any AV grenades? You had a strong squad and yet no vehicle support. Your tactics got beat by a smarter squad, deal with it. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 717	Posted - 2014.01.02 21:13:00 - [32] - Quote sounds like the other 5 members of the squad forgot their AV granades.... a tank forcing its way in isnt going to be moving very fast... and 5 of you throwing granades while a proto swarmer finishes it does the job quite well. but oh yah i forgot, you refuse to change your squad composition to counter OP tanks.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 426	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:23:00 - [33] - Quote AV nades only work on stupid tankers very well and not so much on shield tanked HAVs. You need to get close and by that you either get shreddered by the HAV (assuming it was a blaster HAV) or the surrounding infantry you cant shoot and throw at the same time. The HAV in this scenario did his work but to get this balanced the HAV should rather use 5 Infantry mem to support him instead of two, or the HAV should need more than one to operate. In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. The waves of oppertunity only works on paper smart HAV pilots simply stack hardeners or reppers to a degree where there is only one giant wave of oppertunity for them. I partly agree a AV HAVs should be the best counter to a AI HAV but I also believe AV infantry should be a counter to at least AV HAVs. That way you have a balance circle. AV Infantry does not need to destroy a HAV but they should be able to take the HAV out of battle for a good amount of time, sadly thats not the case. The pilot can escape and recover too fast or simply recalls his HAV to call in another one. The balance in this regard is horribly off.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 719	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:27:00 - [34] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: AV nades only work on stupid tankers very well and not so much on shield tanked HAVs. You need to get close and by that you either get shreddered by the HAV (assuming it was a blaster HAV) or the surrounding infantry you cant shoot and throw at the same time. The HAV in this scenario did his work but to get this balanced the HAV should rather use 5 Infantry mem to support him instead of two, or the HAV should need more than one to operate. In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. The waves of oppertunity only works on paper smart HAV pilots simply stack hardeners or reppers to a degree where there is only one giant wave of oppertunity for them. I partly agree a AV HAVs should be the best counter to a AI HAV but I also believe AV infantry should be a counter to at least AV HAVs. That way you have a balance circle. AV Infantry does not need to destroy a HAV but they should be able to take the HAV out of battle for a good amount of time, sadly thats not the case. The pilot can escape and recover too fast or simply recalls his HAV to call in another one. The balance in this regard is horribly off. were not arguing about balance, its clearly unbalanced. were simply detailing an effective and useful stratagy to counter the OPness. AV granades work, you can argue otherwise all you want but all that does is deny you an AV stratagy and doesnt really benifit you at all. its no skin off MY back if you dont use it, but its probably a good idea to try things out before you shoot them down.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7346	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:33:00 - [35] - Quote The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Jason Pearson 3741	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:41:00 - [36] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. You're a total git, Jason. - Kingbabar
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7346	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:43:00 - [37] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. Yes, you really would. All you need is someone to hack the point. You can have someone get out of one of your many tanks and hack the point, then sit on it blasting anyone who dares attempt to try and win against tank spam. As it is, my WLR IS through the roof from using this tactic. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Jason Pearson 3741	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:44:00 - [38] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. Yes, you really would. All you need is someone to hack the point. You can have someone get out of one of your many tanks and hack the point, then sit on it blasting anyone who dares attempt to try and win against tank spam. As it is, my WLR IS through the roof from using this tactic. And the other team doesn't bother with a double damage sica rail? incredible, I must be playing against players who can actually think for themselves. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. You're a total git, Jason. - Kingbabar
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 439	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:49:00 - [39] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Did you have any Flux grenades? Any remote explosives? Any Proximity explosives? Amy PRIMARY AV damage systems? (hint that means FORGE guns. Swarms and grenades are SUPPLEMENTARY) No? Then why are you complaining? That's like only having a pistol when trying to storm a point and complaining that your scrambler pistol couldn't out DPS a Battle Rifle. I have a suit all loaded up for just such a situation... what do you have? Nothing? Figures. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7347	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:53:00 - [40] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. Yes, you really would. All you need is someone to hack the point. You can have someone get out of one of your many tanks and hack the point, then sit on it blasting anyone who dares attempt to try and win against tank spam. As it is, my WLR IS through the roof from using this tactic. And the other team doesn't bother with a double damage sica rail? incredible, I must be playing against players who can actually think for themselves. Oh sure, they can bother doing that. Of course, if you're bad enough to not manage to kill it on the way in it will probably die fairly rapidly to the large number of tanks you happen to have. And even if you do lose 1 or 2 tanks, they only cost peanuts. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'

Timtron Victory Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 20	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:55:00 - [41] - Quote Some replies here are really dumb Someone said SL are light weapons so you should not be able to get out heavy vehicle with heavy armor Following that logic, The Heavy Suits are heavies so light weapons should not destroy them either right? Seriously, if you want to point out someone as wrong at least make some sense. Dont just talk to hear yourself talk. In response to the OP I think having teammates with varying weapons would have helped 1 Flux grenades to subdue the infantry 2 AV grenades 3 Ammo resupply (nanohive) 4 Locus grenades Just spamming all the types of grenades while the Commando shoots the swarm launchers would have been a very good suppression tactic. Correct me if I am wrong, the objective was in an open space right? I think the best vehicle of choice now to counter tanks is dropship I personally dont fly one, but it gives a bird's eye view if you like. Assault dropships could surprise the tank and give the team a warning that a tank is nearby and since one shot from the tank cant kill most(I assume) you guys could zip away. But seriously? Where can you find a dude who just dropships an entire game? There are no WP for flying dropships right? Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1416	Posted - 2014.01.02 23:56:00 - [42] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Did you have any Flux grenades? Any remote explosives? Any Proximity explosives? Amy PRIMARY AV damage systems? (hint that means FORGE guns. Swarms and grenades are SUPPLEMENTARY) No? Then why are you complaining? That's like only having a pistol when trying to storm a point and complaining that your scrambler pistol couldn't out DPS a Battle Rifle. I have a suit all loaded up for just such a situation... what do you have? Nothing? Figures. 1Flux + 1MD + 2RE - DemoMan/ Flanker 1Locus + 1SG + 1Flaylock + TriageHive PointMan / Breacher 1ASR + 1SL + 1PRE - AV speacilist 1Sniper - Sniper (obviously) 1 Locus + 1CR + RepTool + Injector + HybridHive - FieldMedic 1HMG + 1SMG - Enforcer/Suppresion So yes we had flux's, Yes we had RE, Yes we had proximity explosives, you should never assume. Although I must ask where in the swarm launcher it mentions it being Supplementary? In Game Description wrote: A mid-range anti-material weapon, the shoulder-mounted rocket launcher provides infantry squads with the means to effectively engage armoured vehicles and installation gun emplacements. I don't see it in there, the bit I see is , EFFECTIVELY engage armoured vehicles, a tank is an armoured vehicle, therefore I would expect thenSwarm Launcher to be capable of engaging it . . . . .Effectively. You are correct Ghost the Question is largely rhetorical, while the squad has adapted I think our Scenario shows that Tanks are just a little to effective. Don't get me wrong I am no advocate for the tanks of 1.6, I just think (like the TTK) they have just gone a LITTLE too far and if I can convince people this is the case we can try and avoid the continous cycle of buffs and nerfs. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 439	Posted - 2014.01.04 06:07:00 - [43] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I don't see it in there, the bit I see is , EFFECTIVELY engage armoured vehicles, a tank is an armoured vehicle, therefore I would expect thenSwarm Launcher to be capable of engaging it . . . . .Effectively. You are correct Ghost the Question is largely rhetorical, while the squad has adapted I think our Scenario shows that Tanks are just a little to effective. Don't get me wrong I am no advocate for the tanks of 1.6, I just think (like the TTK) they have just gone a LITTLE too far and if I can convince people this is the case we can try and avoid the continous cycle of buffs and nerfs. Engage, not destroy. It generally means harassment. Think Scrambler Pistol VS Heavy If the heavy just stands there the pistol will eventually work, but if the heavy fires back the pistol usually has problems. Same thing with swarms. Also, most handheld guns have lower TTK than tanks do. I wouldn't complain if both tanks and general infantry weapons had their TTK increased. Tactics are always more fun than just getting splattered as soon as one is in range. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 478	Posted - 2014.01.04 06:29:00 - [44] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? What kind of tank was the guy using, why didn't your side have any vehicles, why couldn't you warn your team a tank was coming, why are you using protoswarms when you've had enough time by now to get a forge gun, why not just hide, why not let them have C while you take the other objectives, why were you sweating them having only one tank, why couldn't you wait for his hardeners to go off, why didn't you just bushwhack him with a militia rail tank?
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 467	Posted - 2014.01.04 06:40:00 - [45] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: lol you got pwnd Indeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? i agree with you. I think AV is very UP now. At best av hopes to do enough damage to make a tanker drive off. Getting a actual AV kill is VERY rare now. I use a forge gun often for AV and it just isn't enough any more. Tanks just turn hardners on and retreat to cover. My range sucks now so i have to either try getting into a LAV and hunt them down (totally foolish idea) or try running after them (not going to catch them in a million years) Even when i am using my proto forge with maxed prof and complex damage mod most tanks take 1 hit their shields drop (and some armor) they turn up the hardeners kick in the afterburners and off they go to come back in about 30 seconds or so (whenever cooldown is over) Better yet is when they realize i am set up with a forge gun and suddenly there are 2 blaster tanks coming for me.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 514	Posted - 2014.01.04 08:27:00 - [46] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. These sound like infantry only weapons?: ndeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? Yep. Nerfed AV so just go and hide until more enemy tanks arrive and the enemy wins by not by captures but by killing all the available clones. Tank514...lol. If said Commando got gud & hopped in a LAV for positioning changes you would have had less to worry about. Add 2x Swarms to circumvent Reload & viola.....dead Tank. How 'bout dem Free-2-Play low SP investment (Fresh Academy ALT can do it) Zero ISK BPO Jihad Joe LAVs??? Stop the F2F Noobout Peek-a-Boo Bunnyhop BS & L2P Gud Community FFS.......
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1434	Posted - 2014.01.04 08:42:00 - [47] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. The problem comes when a tank blocks a route you must take, or a strategic position. This is when you need an infantry solution to tanks, as calling in a tank in that scenario is almost impossible. The game is rapidly becoming a game of tank superiority. Vehicle dominance is unbalancing the game. A group of three tanks (A rail and two blasters) can easily prevent you from calling in your own tanks and to shut down infantry on the ground. Since calling in support on the front lines will be dang near impossible, you have to rely on calling them in from redline, which takes time you don't have. Infantry need a solution to force tanks to back off if they need too, and they are sorely lacking that. A tank should be the logical counter to another tank, but infantry need their own ways of fending off tanks. Not killing them, but forcing them to leave OR be killed. Current AV isn't up to the task, which is why Dust has rapidly become a game of which side can maintain Vehicle Dominance. Just my 0.02 ISK on the matter. Feel free to troll, lol, hate or debate as you see fit. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1432	Posted - 2014.01.04 10:44:00 - [48] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. The problem comes when a tank blocks a route you must take, or a strategic position. This is when you need an infantry solution to tanks, as calling in a tank in that scenario is almost impossible. The game is rapidly becoming a game of tank superiority. Vehicle dominance is unbalancing the game. A group of three tanks (A rail and two blasters) can easily prevent you from calling in your own tanks and to shut down infantry on the ground. Since calling in support on the front lines will be dang near impossible, you have to rely on calling them in from redline, which takes time you don't have. Infantry need a solution to force tanks to back off if they need too, and they are sorely lacking that. A tank should be the logical counter to another tank, but infantry need their own ways of fending off tanks. Not killing them, but forcing them to leave OR be killed. Current AV isn't up to the task, which is why Dust has rapidly become a game of which side can maintain Vehicle Dominance. Just my 0.02 ISK on the matter. Feel free to troll, lol, hate or debate as you see fit. Pretty much, like I said we couldn't call in our own vehicle and our q-synced pilot was busy elsewhere. We weren't even after the vehicle kill we just needed it out of our hair. But nope it just keot going. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1432	Posted - 2014.01.04 10:46:00 - [49] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. These sound like infantry only weapons?: ndeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? Yep. Nerfed AV so just go and hide until more enemy tanks arrive and the enemy wins by not by captures but by killing all the available clones. Tank514...lol. If said Commando got gud & hopped in a LAV for positioning changes you would have had less to worry about. Add 2x Swarms to circumvent Reload & viola.....dead Tank. How 'bout dem Free-2-Play low SP investment (Fresh Academy ALT can do it) Zero ISK BPO Jihad Joe LAVs??? Stop the F2F Noobout Peek-a-Boo Bunnyhop BS & L2P Gud Community FFS....... What LAV? Where are we gonna call this in exactly? There was a tank right near by. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1434	Posted - 2014.01.04 10:59:00 - [50] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I don't see it in there, the bit I see is , EFFECTIVELY engage armoured vehicles, a tank is an armoured vehicle, therefore I would expect thenSwarm Launcher to be capable of engaging it . . . . .Effectively. You are correct Ghost the Question is largely rhetorical, while the squad has adapted I think our Scenario shows that Tanks are just a little to effective. Don't get me wrong I am no advocate for the tanks of 1.6, I just think (like the TTK) they have just gone a LITTLE too far and if I can convince people this is the case we can try and avoid the continous cycle of buffs and nerfs. Engage, not destroy. It generally means harassment. Think Scrambler Pistol VS Heavy If the heavy just stands there the pistol will eventually work, but if the heavy fires back the pistol usually has problems. Same thing with swarms. Also, most handheld guns have lower TTK than tanks do. I wouldn't complain if both tanks and general infantry weapons had their TTK increased. Tactics are always more fun than just getting splattered as soon as one is in range. Engage: enter into conflict or combat with Once again doesn't mean what your saying it means. Heavies fall to sidearm all the time. Harrasment is pointless, Harrasment is to doggedly annoy, annoying a tanker isn't gonna stop him killing me. Suppresion will, but suppresion requires enough damage to make the tanker not want to attack, or severly shorten is available attack time. But by necessity if the swarm does enough damage to suprress it will have enough damage to kill, if the tanker doesn't bug out. Its rather hard to convince a tanker he needs to leave whrn you are only doing 'supplementary' damage. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 297	Posted - 2014.01.04 14:37:00 - [51] - Quote this happened to me and some corpies earlier today, our corp is very new, and most players in it have <10m sp they believed that you cant do well against other players like myself with >20>30>40mil sp so we got into an organised squad and ran some ambush, we won like 8 games straight 3 of which were perfect games (0 clones lost, a few people died but were revived) in our last match we were 46 and they were 18, then a 3 man squad joined the game, ran to redline, called in some militia tanks, and from there they lost about 6 more clones before WE were cloned, swapping to AV became impossible because the enemy infantry were just unloading on any exit area, calling vehicles in is impossible since tanks have super range and can get anywhere almost instantly an item should not be able to beat a well organised squad, we can all agree on this and we always have, teamwork should always be victorious over the few disorganised more expensive suits/vehicles same old argument - you shouldnt be entitled to a win just because yours costs more that statement could never be more true tanks should be slower, MUCH slower, but give them more health - maybe reduce the turret angles a bit so a dropship cant be shotdown even with afterburner while climbing 100m in 3 seconds it also seems quite hard for a dropship to kill a tank unless you have a really good gunner and some decent turrets i thought it was supposed to be infantry > air vehicles air vehicles > ground vehicles ground vehicles > infantry dropships could use some anti armor weapon of sorts
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution 1401	Posted - 2014.01.04 16:51:00 - [52] - Quote tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 0	Posted - 2014.01.04 19:11:00 - [53] - Quote As a tanker I know every map have more than half of objective are untankable witch in city or have cover and every objective have a nice cover to not shot by tank so find it out with a tank because tƒÑs+¦tƒÑs++tÖ+µê¦tÖ+sï¥ Real tanker would get off their tank untill their tank blow up, although not much people can blow up their tank.
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 0	Posted - 2014.01.04 19:15:00 - [54] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. like 1.0? 10000000 isk for a tank can be killed by a AV guy? Real tanker would get off their tank untill their tank blow up, although not much people can blow up their tank.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1442	Posted - 2014.01.04 20:52:00 - [55] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. Now you see I don't agree with that statement, I shouldn't have to skill into tanks to be able to use a tank effectively, more to the point you shouldn't force people to pay through the nose for it. Tanks, Gunships should all be a constant threat on the battlefield, they should be being deployed on a regular basis. But at the same time they should be dying on a regular basis as well, it should be sustainable for people to use at least 2 or so tanks a match. But should be expecting to loose these tanks 2 or 3 times a match. Tanks shouldn't be unstoppable juggernauts of death, no matter how high you price them. Instead the tanks survivability needs to be reduced. That means stacking penalties to hardners and the like, they should be Strong enough to assault a position effectively, to do their vehicle based roles, but weak enough that they can be suppressed with a moderate amount of effort and killed with enough going for the AVer. Tanks are not the be all and end all of warfare. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 658	Posted - 2014.01.05 03:30:00 - [56] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. Yes, and no. Wouldnt you agree that there's a hierachy * militia noob fit tank, can usually beat most infantry. * militia noob tank vs militia noob tank, quasi-random who will win * 'good' tank, raw fit (gunlogi/madrugar) vs militia noob tank, good tank should win * militia tank fit with SKILLED UP GEAR, vs empty or poorly fitted gunlogi/madrugar: skilled gear will win. A WELL FIT, non-militia tank... the 200,000+ ISK, gunlogi/madrugar type... can take on 2xmilitia noob tanks, and win, if done mostly one after another. If really good, can take both at the same time. But that's the milllion SP investment. It's nice for potential new players, that it can now be done with around 1mil SP rather than your hypothetical 15mil SP. It's almost equivalent to required investment for proto suits.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1064	Posted - 2014.01.06 00:47:00 - [57] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. Pauses Dragons Dogma I kind of disagree. The solution I see is a lot of Closed Beta Vets on Killzone(PS4) , other PS4 games or other PS3 games. From my point of view as far as 1.7 is just to not even bother with Dust 514. Perfect win. Goes back to playing Dragons Dogma. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5404	Posted - 2014.01.06 01:17:00 - [58] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? Proximities to drop him with a rapid alpha, and two swarm launchers will eff up an armour tank. Sub in Forgegunners for the swarms for shields and alpha him as he aproaches to make those proxies have a greater effect. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 429	Posted - 2014.01.06 08:44:00 - [59] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: AV nades only work on stupid tankers very well and not so much on shield tanked HAVs. You need to get close and by that you either get shreddered by the HAV (assuming it was a blaster HAV) or the surrounding infantry you cant shoot and throw at the same time. The HAV in this scenario did his work but to get this balanced the HAV should rather use 5 Infantry mem to support him instead of two, or the HAV should need more than one to operate. In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. The waves of oppertunity only works on paper smart HAV pilots simply stack hardeners or reppers to a degree where there is only one giant wave of oppertunity for them. I partly agree a AV HAVs should be the best counter to a AI HAV but I also believe AV infantry should be a counter to at least AV HAVs. That way you have a balance circle. AV Infantry does not need to destroy a HAV but they should be able to take the HAV out of battle for a good amount of time, sadly thats not the case. The pilot can escape and recover too fast or simply recalls his HAV to call in another one. The balance in this regard is horribly off. were not arguing about balance, its clearly unbalanced. were simply detailing an effective and useful stratagy to counter the OPness. AV granades work, you can argue otherwise all you want but all that does is deny you an AV stratagy and doesnt really benifit you at all. its no skin off MY back if you dont use it, but its probably a good idea to try things out before you shoot them down. Yes but they still only work on stupid tankers. The best way for me to counter HAV's is by using RE's, sneaking up behind them place three RE's, throw one or two AV nades and detonatae you RE's. This is enough for most of the HAV's I have encountered. But this is a bit tricky in FW as you can kill yourself by thsi strategy (yes the AV nades will detonate your remotes so be carefully).
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 177	Posted - 2014.01.06 09:16:00 - [60] - Quote What do you do? Hold 'em off from taking the flag while one of your squad sneaks off in the hills, drops in a double damage mod railgun, and wastes the outgunned blaster tank.

Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 101	Posted - 2014.01.06 09:50:00 - [61] - Quote rules of how not to be killed by a tank useing a blaster cannon. 1. dont get in its face. 2. dont shoot it with you weapon 3. the further you are the less damage you take. 4.use height and elevation and cover. the blaster must be directily hitting you to deal damage as it has no splash. 5.anooyit with av grenades froma building or roof top while not pokeing down to take avlook at it. 6. dont stand still while swarming it. 7. charge the forge gun up befor pokeing out of cover. 8. dont stand still after you hit the tank and its turret turns towards you.
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1352	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:15:00 - [62] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Now that tanks costs 70k and 90k with some equipment on it, witch is half the cost of my suit, they should be soloble by anyone that has AV equipment with him, be it grenades or otherwise. Even their Militia Blaster turrets cream me a new one if they slightly graze me 3 times and at their rate of fire 3 rounds not too long. But i havent really gotten the idea where 1 Tank is cheaper then a Proto Weapon...i really do not want to see Proto tanks running around pretending to be nascar racing vehicles that can repair in under 20s with a pitstop, without the pitstop, while we are having these issues with Militia Versions. Eveytime i put a tank down below 50% armor, i hear Jean Luc Picard say: Warp 9, Engage ....and off it goes... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:30:00 - [63] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? So you're complaining because you were caught off guard? Please, go to Call of Duty, and stop ruining the game for people that want a different role. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:33:00 - [64] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. He doesn't have a point, because he was basically caught with his pants down. It's unfair that a tank can roll at him before he has a proper fit to "deal" with it. That's his entire argument. That he was caught off-guard. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:34:00 - [65] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Do you have any idea how effective a tank with a railgun and just one damage amp is? Oh, you don't? Well that explains things. Of course you don't understand vehicle dynamics. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:36:00 - [66] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A team of crack infantry - lolwanting AR to kill tanks are we? Crack infantry which cannot adapt = crap infantry tbh Crack infantry = You kill the enemy infantry and ignore the tank because he cant hack a point lol No vehicle back up? whos fault is that? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm = Point held down because you kill infantry and tank cant hack a point It sounds like your crack team is crap and ***** itself when a tank arrives Oh my greatest apologies I hadn't considered we were to blame I mean its not like the tank killed us all or anything. We must clearly want to kill tanks with ARs because I mentioned that we were all running that did I? Its amazing, you seem to think we have the brain capacity of yourself. Said 6 man squad against tank = unequivocally dea, despite AV. You know its rather hard to defend a point when you are all dead. I mean its amazing I jist gave you a scenario where the current iteration of tanks gives you an 'I win' card and the best you can come up with is 'You trying to shoot it with AR's?' Its utterly astounding, I'll have to submit a paper on it, can I autopsy you? Im intregiued as to how thick that skull of yours must be. See my aforementioned posts. You were caught off-guard, and you feel that's not fair. Squad with someone that has access to a MLT tank with a MLT rail. Oh wait....................................................... you don't need SP for MLT gear. So if you do nothing to try to fix a situation, who's to blame? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 237	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:40:00 - [67] - Quote Hmm seems a somewhat common occurrence these days MAC but I would suggest a slight modification to your tactics. It might sound daft but the best way to counter a tank is overwhelming force IMHO. So get whoever in your squad who has drop uplinks to try and get one in an elevated or covered position that has at least 2 exits and then get whoever has FG fittings to suicide and spawn in with them but be sure to keep you best assault players in their gear to keep infantry off the Heavy AV. Just hammer the tank, Assault forges and double complex damage mods is the fit I use as Swarms even proto are really only effective against LAVs and Dropships they just don't have the damage or fire rate anymore. You will likely lose a lot of ISK but if you're stuck in an objective it's the best way to deal with them just get stuck in, the Suicide LAV tactic only works if you have time to call in and prep it and the same goes for Proxy mines as they need to be dropped as entering an objective. Your Commando fighter does have his head screwed on by taking Proto swarms but remember it's only for suppression and he'll need Nano hives to keep up his ammo so that stops him from taking RE/Proxy mines. Since he is already used to being flexible and skilled in the heavy suit he may a good candidate for being a Forge gunner but remember to keep Uplinks nearby as FG users are very exposed to small arms fire due to low speed, big hitbox, big scan profile and no primary infantry weapon. Also don't listen to Takahiro, he's one of the biggest tanker Trolls I know of and I have it on good authority that he used to play as EnglishSnake the Butthurt vet who quit after the New Eden Missile tank crisis (Oh noes I can't go 50-0 anymore wahh wahh CCP broke my toy!)and only came back now that Tanks are flexing a bit too much muscle again. Chin up MAC the Tank nerf is coming in 1.8!!! Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:41:00 - [68] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We switched over half the squad to AV grenades, we have been fortunate enough not to encounter a situation similar to that which I described here as I doubt it would have faired much better. But I would like to ask, should 1 man (the tanker) be so powerful as to be capable of overwhelming a superior force? you are using improperly loaded language. Besides which... if the tanker wins, then clearly by empirical evidence, HE is the "superior force" :D To answer your implicit question of, "should a single tanker be able to basically run over 6 infantry that are non-AV, or inadequately AV equippped?" my opinion is "yes". The argument them becomes a matter of "how much is 'adequately' equipped?" which is not an easy thing to answer. Edit: there is then a side question of, "is there adequate capability for infantry to re-equip?", my opinion of which is, #@$%! NO!! Particularly when you get .... tankers blowing up the only supply depot on the map. When there is one at all. Ugh. We're protecting our investment by rendering enemy infantry unable to quickly switch to a suit that could counter us. I see it as an intelligent decision. Infantry sees it as a stupid decision. When 9/10 you're on a bad team, you learn to shoot first. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:43:00 - [69] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. First Person Shooter does not mean 100% infantry 100% of the time. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:45:00 - [70] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. Yes, you really would. All you need is someone to hack the point. You can have someone get out of one of your many tanks and hack the point, then sit on it blasting anyone who dares attempt to try and win against tank spam. As it is, my WLR IS through the roof from using this tactic. And the other team doesn't bother with a double damage sica rail? incredible, I must be playing against players who can actually think for themselves. And I always play against a team of PRO stompers. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 542	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:46:00 - [71] - Quote Now I have used tanks a lot on other characters and I will say that the lower end AV especially lower meta level swarm launchers are pathetic. However I have lost many tanks to just a couple of guys with decent swarm launchers and AV nades. If you only had one lol commando as your AV then what do you expect? He doesn't even have enough high slots to stack in a few damage mods. Bare in mind you may well be going up against proto plates, proto reps and maybe even proto hardeners on that tank. You cannot expect a commando to deal with that by himself.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:49:00 - [72] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. The problem comes when a tank blocks a route you must take, or a strategic position. This is when you need an infantry solution to tanks, as calling in a tank in that scenario is almost impossible. The game is rapidly becoming a game of tank superiority. Vehicle dominance is unbalancing the game. A group of three tanks (A rail and two blasters) can easily prevent you from calling in your own tanks and to shut down infantry on the ground. Since calling in support on the front lines will be dang near impossible, you have to rely on calling them in from redline, which takes time you don't have. Infantry need a solution to force tanks to back off if they need too, and they are sorely lacking that. A tank should be the logical counter to another tank, but infantry need their own ways of fending off tanks. Not killing them, but forcing them to leave OR be killed. Current AV isn't up to the task, which is why Dust has rapidly become a game of which side can maintain Vehicle Dominance. Just my 0.02 ISK on the matter. Feel free to troll, lol, hate or debate as you see fit. So tanks are destroying balance, when so soon people out of the academy have to deal with Johnny Reddot who has AR proficiency 3 with a dual damage mod Duvolle on a Gk.0. Got it. Double standards I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:50:00 - [73] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Now I have used tanks a lot on other characters and I will say that the lower end AV especially lower meta level swarm launchers are pathetic. However I have lost many tanks to just a couple of guys with decent swarm launchers and AV nades. If you only had one lol commando as your AV then what do you expect? He doesn't even have enough high slots to stack in a few damage mods. Bare in mind you may well be going up against proto plates, proto reps and maybe even proto hardeners on that tank. You cannot expect a commando to deal with that by himself. We don't exactly have PRO hardeners anymore, per se. All they did was make the cool down time lower as meta level goes up. They used to last the same amount of time, but what was different was the percentage they reduced incoming damage. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1639	Posted - 2014.01.06 10:51:00 - [74] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Now that tanks costs 70k and 90k with some equipment on it, witch is half the cost of my suit, they should be soloble by anyone that has AV equipment with him, be it grenades or otherwise. Even their Militia Blaster turrets cream me a new one if they slightly graze me 3 times and at their rate of fire 3 rounds not too long. But i havent really gotten the idea where 1 Tank is cheaper then a Proto Weapon...i really do not want to see Proto tanks running around pretending to be nascar racing vehicles that can repair in under 20s with a pitstop, without the pitstop, while we are having these issues with Militia Versions. Eveytime i put a tank down below 50% armor, i hear Jean Luc Picard say: Warp 9, Engage ....and off it goes... So you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 432	Posted - 2014.01.06 11:40:00 - [75] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. First Person Shooter does not mean 100% infantry 100% of the time. Thats correct but it does not mean tank or loose either
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1357	Posted - 2014.01.06 11:46:00 - [76] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Now that tanks costs 70k and 90k with some equipment on it, witch is half the cost of my suit, they should be soloble by anyone that has AV equipment with him, be it grenades or otherwise. Even their Militia Blaster turrets cream me a new one if they slightly graze me 3 times and at their rate of fire 3 rounds not too long. But i havent really gotten the idea where 1 Tank is cheaper then a Proto Weapon...i really do not want to see Proto tanks running around pretending to be nascar racing vehicles that can repair in under 20s with a pitstop, without the pitstop, while we are having these issues with Militia Versions. Eveytime i put a tank down below 50% armor, i hear Jean Luc Picard say: Warp 9, Engage ....and off it goes... So you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear? Its a Tank .... if you don't get this, youll not get anything ... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1465	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:00:00 - [77] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Now that tanks costs 70k and 90k with some equipment on it, witch is half the cost of my suit, they should be soloble by anyone that has AV equipment with him, be it grenades or otherwise. Even their Militia Blaster turrets cream me a new one if they slightly graze me 3 times and at their rate of fire 3 rounds not too long. But i havent really gotten the idea where 1 Tank is cheaper then a Proto Weapon...i really do not want to see Proto tanks running around pretending to be nascar racing vehicles that can repair in under 20s with a pitstop, without the pitstop, while we are having these issues with Militia Versions. Eveytime i put a tank down below 50% armor, i hear Jean Luc Picard say: Warp 9, Engage ....and off it goes... So you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear? Hello, Spkr Spkr4rhedead wrote: Infantry are just too dumb to realise tanks should be the best counter to tanks. Your argument is invalid, thanks for the bump, don't let the door hit you on the way, mind the lav bombs all parked around your tank. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1652	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:02:00 - [78] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Eveytime i put a tank down below 50% armor, i hear Jean Luc Picard say: Warp 9, Engage ....and off it goes... So you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear?[/quote] Its a Tank .... if you don't get this, youll not get anything ... [/quote] But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1652	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:03:00 - [79] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: [ Your argument is invalid, thanks for the bump, don't let the door hit you on the way, mind the lav bombs all parked around your tank. My argument is invalid? You made a thread complaining that a tank caught you unaware. If ever there was a nonstarter, that's it. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1465	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:04:00 - [80] - Quote Snagman 313 wrote: Hmm seems a somewhat common occurrence these days MAC but I would suggest a slight modification to your tactics. It might sound daft but the best way to counter a tank is overwhelming force IMHO. So get whoever in your squad who has drop uplinks to try and get one in an elevated or covered position that has at least 2 exits and then get whoever has FG fittings to suicide and spawn in with them but be sure to keep you best assault players in their gear to keep infantry off the Heavy AV. Just hammer the tank, Assault forges and double complex damage mods is the fit I use as Swarms even proto are really only effective against LAVs and Dropships they just don't have the damage or fire rate anymore. You will likely lose a lot of ISK but if you're stuck in an objective it's the best way to deal with them just get stuck in, the Suicide LAV tactic only works if you have time to call in and prep it and the same goes for Proxy mines as they need to be dropped as entering an objective. Your Commando fighter does have his head screwed on by taking Proto swarms but remember it's only for suppression and he'll need Nano hives to keep up his ammo so that stops him from taking RE/Proxy mines. Since he is already used to being flexible and skilled in the heavy suit he may a good candidate for being a Forge gunner but remember to keep Uplinks nearby as FG users are very exposed to small arms fire due to low speed, big hitbox, big scan profile and no primary infantry weapon. Also don't listen to Takahiro, he's one of the biggest tanker Trolls I know of and I have it on good authority that he used to play as EnglishSnake the Butthurt vet who quit after the New Eden Missile tank crisis (Oh noes I can't go 50-0 anymore wahh wahh CCP broke my toy!)and only came back now that Tanks are flexing a bit too much muscle again. Chin up MAC the Tank nerf is coming in 1.8!!! We had orginally only taken the swarms for suppression, we had a rail tanker elsewhere on the map that was seeing of a 4-tank assault by the enemy. Even if we could have just got the tanker assaulting our position to bug out eary, before his hardners turned off, we could have successfully have held our position. But as soon as those hardners turn not even proto AV is gonna work with out dedicating more than a reasonable amount of force strength towards it. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1465	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:11:00 - [81] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: [ Your argument is invalid, thanks for the bump, don't let the door hit you on the way, mind the lav bombs all parked around your tank. My argument is invalid? You made a thread complaining that a tank caught you unaware. If ever there was a nonstarter, that's it. Sorry that was rather hard to hear thdough the door, but are you now telling me having AV and various equipment to help deal with tanks isn't prepared? That because I didn't have 5 mins to prepare all these traps you lot keep suggesting, it's my fault? So your saying it's my problem that I didn't get 5 mins before that tanked showed up? That I am deserved of my death because the tank turned before the 'prep' time. Or are you trying to say we didn't have any AV when I said multiple times we did. Place Sign outside front door. Not Accepting Calls from Johavas Witnesses or Spkr4thedead** Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 433	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:24:00 - [82] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV...
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1465	Posted - 2014.01.06 12:39:00 - [83] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV... I disagree korvin, they should maintain their cheapness but loose their survivability. 1.7 has been good in the effect of more tanks, but if tanks (gunships, dropships, APCs) are too be a common sight (as they should be) they need to have less survivability, such that infantry and other vehicles can effectively combat each other. The frequency of tanks is only so high because, the tanks are overpowered. If they are balanced, less people will Spam them. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2151	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:07:00 - [84] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV... I disagree korvin, they should maintain their cheapness but loose their survivability. 1.7 has been good in the effect of more tanks, but if tanks (gunships, dropships, APCs) are too be a common sight (as they should be) they need to have less survivability, such that infantry and other vehicles can effectively combat each other. The frequency of tanks is only so high because, the tanks are overpowered. If they are balanced, less people will Spam them. So give me a 5mil tank then According to you cheap = useless and throwaway and can be easil;y replaced So expenisve = usefull and durable and will kick everyones teeth in because its expensive Intelligence is OP
sanxit interfectorem MORTIMOR Shining Flame Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:18:00 - [85] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? have all of your squad have some form of av fit even if its mlt forge fit..call methana if tank is blaster support..hardener booster saga if its rail or missile. hit the tank together in lavs from multiple angles ..it works better when you do this when the tank is engaging a friendly vehicle but not impossible to solo allot of the tankers now let alone tri av stomp them with tank support
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 433	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:22:00 - [86] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV... I disagree korvin, they should maintain their cheapness but loose their survivability. 1.7 has been good in the effect of more tanks, but if tanks (gunships, dropships, APCs) are too be a common sight (as they should be) they need to have less survivability, such that infantry and other vehicles can effectively combat each other. The frequency of tanks is only so high because, the tanks are overpowered. If they are balanced, less people will Spam them. Oh don't get me wrong here I am all for cheaper tanks the price prior to 1.7 was ridiculous. But still I believe a HAV should be (slightly) more expensive than a simple dropsuit (so a little tweak would be nice). A HAV is a powerful toy and that should somehow be reflected by the price, but only to a degree where HAV pilots can still make profit. This is a tricky task for CCP.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1466	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:45:00 - [87] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV... I disagree korvin, they should maintain their cheapness but loose their survivability. 1.7 has been good in the effect of more tanks, but if tanks (gunships, dropships, APCs) are too be a common sight (as they should be) they need to have less survivability, such that infantry and other vehicles can effectively combat each other. The frequency of tanks is only so high because, the tanks are overpowered. If they are balanced, less people will Spam them. So give me a 5mil tank then According to you cheap = useless and throwaway and can be easil;y replaced So expenisve = usefull and durable and will kick everyones teeth in because its expensive Which is exactly why expensive tanks are unbalanced, if you make them expensive and powerful it becomes a game of who has the best. As it stands the Isk level allows for someone to die in a tank approximately twice a pub match for a miltia fit. Now if three people a side get through 2 tanks and 1 survives that will meam tanks become a constant threat. This is more fun than 2min scrap at the beginning followed by either ultimate pwnege from a single tank player, or no more tanks for the rest of the match. Ultra Strong tanks like you want are only fun for the driver. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Psychotic Shooter Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 139	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:53:00 - [88] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: lol you got pwnd Indeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? You need more than one proto swarm to deal with a tank you noob if you had six guy 3 deal with the tank while the other 3 fight the infantry or think outside the ******* box call a tank of your own since MLT tanks can stand up to the best
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1466	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:53:00 - [89] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV... I disagree korvin, they should maintain their cheapness but loose their survivability. 1.7 has been good in the effect of more tanks, but if tanks (gunships, dropships, APCs) are too be a common sight (as they should be) they need to have less survivability, such that infantry and other vehicles can effectively combat each other. The frequency of tanks is only so high because, the tanks are overpowered. If they are balanced, less people will Spam them. Oh don't get me wrong here I am all for cheaper tanks the price prior to 1.7 was ridiculous. But still I believe a HAV should be (slightly) more expensive than a simple dropsuit (so a little tweak would be nice). A HAV is a powerful toy and that should somehow be reflected by the price, but only to a degree where HAV pilots can still make profit. This is a tricky task for CCP. The same is true for survivability a HAV should be able to take quite some damage, but at the same time Infantry needs a way to deal with them. I have basicly no problem with infantry that can only force HAVs to retreat if the effect is lasting for a reasonable time and if the AV player gets rewarded for his effort. My God man, you actually understand. They should indeed take some damage, but an Infantry AV unit should be able to deal enough damage that he can be forced to leave before his hardners run out. Its only if he sticks around after that will he die. While I see what you're saying with pricd, having a tank cost less than proto may seem odd, but they are miltia tanks. They need to be sustainable in pubs. I would expect a proto modded tank to be unprofitable, much like the suits. I think the prices as theynare fine, but the strength is the determining factor, is the one tht is out of kilter. The survivability and strength of the tanks, is too much for it to be fair for a single person to have access to. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 692	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:55:00 - [90] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? 4-5 tanks pushing an objective usually. Must be fun... CCP please allow turrets to hack the objectives already. They are still UP

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2152	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:55:00 - [91] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: But you're complaining that MLT gear is cheaper than PRO gear. You want a MLT hull to cost 200,000 ISK, and a STD hull to be 350,000 ISK? I'll take that if your dropsuits go back up to their old costs. PRO suits costing 317,000 ISK. No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV... I disagree korvin, they should maintain their cheapness but loose their survivability. 1.7 has been good in the effect of more tanks, but if tanks (gunships, dropships, APCs) are too be a common sight (as they should be) they need to have less survivability, such that infantry and other vehicles can effectively combat each other. The frequency of tanks is only so high because, the tanks are overpowered. If they are balanced, less people will Spam them. So give me a 5mil tank then According to you cheap = useless and throwaway and can be easil;y replaced So expenisve = usefull and durable and will kick everyones teeth in because its expensive Which is exactly why expensive tanks are unbalanced, if you make them expensive and powerful it becomes a game of who has the best. As it stands the Isk level allows for someone to die in a tank approximately twice a pub match for a miltia fit. Now if three people a side get through 2 tanks and 1 survives that will meam tanks become a constant threat. This is more fun than 2min scrap at the beginning followed by either ultimate pwnege from a single tank player, or no more tanks for the rest of the match. Ultra Strong tanks like you want are only fun for the driver. A game of who has the best With tanks its OP and unbalanced With infantry its fine Yea no You cant have it both ways At first its my AV fit is cheap and should be able to kill your super expenisve tank and now its my AV fits costs more than your tank and thats unfair Intelligence is OP
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1466	Posted - 2014.01.06 13:56:00 - [92] - Quote Psychotic Shooter wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: lol you got pwnd Indeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? You need more than one proto swarm to deal with a tank you noob if you had six guy 3 deal with the tank while the other 3 fight the infantry or think outside the ******* box call a tank of your own since MLT tanks can stand up to the best 1. Did you actually read the post, where are we gonna call this tank in? 2. So you're saying it should take 3 people a tank? 3. You are also saying putting 50% of your squad to deal with ONE person seems reasonable? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1466	Posted - 2014.01.06 14:01:00 - [93] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey Mac wrote: Kevin Lorment wrote: No he is simply complaining that a militia HAV (expensive asset) is cheaper than a Proto Infantry weapon (cheap asset) Regarding the dropsuits price yes even a militia HAV should be more expensive than a proto dropsuits unless we get dropsuits that can have more than 5000HP, are immune to most Infantry weapons amd move faster than jeeps without stamina loss oh and that can carry a big gun with some small ones while beeing invincible for a short period of time.... You get quite a lot for the ISK you pay for a HAV... I disagree korvin, they should maintain their cheapness but loose their survivability. 1.7 has been good in the effect of more tanks, but if tanks (gunships, dropships, APCs) are too be a common sight (as they should be) they need to have less survivability, such that infantry and other vehicles can effectively combat each other. The frequency of tanks is only so high because, the tanks are overpowered. If they are balanced, less people will Spam them. So give me a 5mil tank then According to you cheap = useless and throwaway and can be easil;y replaced So expenisve = usefull and durable and will kick everyones teeth in because its expensive Which is exactly why expensive tanks are unbalanced, if you make them expensive and powerful it becomes a game of who has the best. As it stands the Isk level allows for someone to die in a tank approximately twice a pub match for a miltia fit. Now if three people a side get through 2 tanks and 1 survives that will meam tanks become a constant threat. This is more fun than 2min scrap at the beginning followed by either ultimate pwnege from a single tank player, or no more tanks for the rest of the match. Ultra Strong tanks like you want are only fun for the driver. A game of who has the best With tanks its OP and unbalanced With infantry its fine Yea no You cant have it both ways At first its my AV fit is cheap and should be able to kill your super expenisve tank and now its my AV fits costs more than your tank and thats unfair 1) Never Said tanks should be expensive 2) Infantry Proto can fall to Mlt quite easily 3) Never said infantry was a balanced aspect. 4) If you read my posts on the subject, I have always based tank balance as 1 tank == 1 Infantry Player. If you want cheaper tanks that is fine by me, hell make them free if you really want, but so long as a tank is worth more than an infantry player it won't be balanced. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 237	Posted - 2014.01.06 17:40:00 - [94] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Snagman 313 wrote: Hmm seems a somewhat common occurrence these days MAC but I would suggest a slight modification to your tactics. It might sound daft but the best way to counter a tank is overwhelming force IMHO. So get whoever in your squad who has drop uplinks to try and get one in an elevated or covered position that has at least 2 exits and then get whoever has FG fittings to suicide and spawn in with them but be sure to keep you best assault players in their gear to keep infantry off the Heavy AV. Just hammer the tank, Assault forges and double complex damage mods is the fit I use as Swarms even proto are really only effective against LAVs and Dropships they just don't have the damage or fire rate anymore. You will likely lose a lot of ISK but if you're stuck in an objective it's the best way to deal with them just get stuck in, the Suicide LAV tactic only works if you have time to call in and prep it and the same goes for Proxy mines as they need to be dropped as entering an objective. Your Commando fighter does have his head screwed on by taking Proto swarms but remember it's only for suppression and he'll need Nano hives to keep up his ammo so that stops him from taking RE/Proxy mines. Since he is already used to being flexible and skilled in the heavy suit he may a good candidate for being a Forge gunner but remember to keep Uplinks nearby as FG users are very exposed to small arms fire due to low speed, big hitbox, big scan profile and no primary infantry weapon. Also don't listen to Takahiro, he's one of the biggest tanker Trolls I know of and I have it on good authority that he used to play as EnglishSnake the Butthurt vet who quit after the New Eden Missile tank crisis (Oh noes I can't go 50-0 anymore wahh wahh CCP broke my toy!)and only came back now that Tanks are flexing a bit too much muscle again. Chin up MAC the Tank nerf is coming in 1.8!!! We had orginally only taken the swarms for suppression, we had a rail tanker elsewhere on the map that was seeing of a 4-tank assault by the enemy. Even if we could have just got the tanker assaulting our position to bug out eary, before his hardners turned off, we could have successfully have held our position. But as soon as those hardners turn not even proto AV is gonna work with out dedicating more than a reasonable amount of force strength towards it. Hmm I do see your point MAC but if you can get hold of an Forge gunner with prof 5 and dual damage mods on a Proto FG he will get through those hardeners. Admittedly it's going to cost ISK but I still feast on delicious Tank spammer tears since my corp mates feed me a steady stream of ISK I'm about 90-100 mil in the hole, it's like working for loan shanks I tell you!!! Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1067	Posted - 2014.01.08 17:10:00 - [95] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. He doesn't have a point, because he was basically caught with his pants down. It's unfair that a tank can roll at him before he has a proper fit to "deal" with it. That's his entire argument. That he was caught off-guard. Pauses Dragons Dogma. The point is patch 1.7 got played a total of TWO HOURS then log off for the MONTH. The point is a PROTOTYPE AV weapon not doing anything versus a MILITIA weapon (HAV). Notices DECREASING Dust 514 player counts. Hey!! good Job! CCP! Looks foreward to The Division, Destiny, etc. Goes back to playing Dragons Dogma. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 724	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:54:00 - [96] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: What do you do? Hold 'em off from taking the flag while one of your squad sneaks off in the hills, drops in a double damage mod railgun, and wastes the outgunned blaster tank. It's funny how the tankers keep switching turrets and keep re-calling the tanks when they are low on ammo on the redlines. I wanna be able to switch from AR gear to AV gear without going into a supply depot (Which is usually Covered with tanks)
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 289	Posted - 2014.01.09 16:59:00 - [97] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: What do you do? Hold 'em off from taking the flag while one of your squad sneaks off in the hills, drops in a double damage mod railgun, and wastes the outgunned blaster tank. It's funny how the tankers keep switching turrets and keep re-calling the tanks when they are low on ammo on the redlines. I wanna be able to switch from AR gear to AV gear without going into a supply depot (Which is usually Covered with tanks) no, because going to redline is basically a supply depot, no sane person does that out of redline I use a tablet so beware of typos


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